Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - wheel building

how many of you here build wheels? it's the one thing on a bike i have never done myself. but bike shops can be expensive and ****ty mechanics can let you down. so i figured i might try to pick it up. it's probably a pretty steep learning curve, so i wanted to hear other peoples experiences before buying a bunch of gear. do tell...

it's not hard, sheldon's site has a pretty good tutorial.
go for it!

it's not nearly as hard as you'd link, assuming you have half (or even 25%) of a brain. Performance has a truing stand that's only like $40, and it served me very well. There are a couple of people who didn't like it, though.

Do it! It's fun to brag.

my first wheel took me 3 hours to build without any prior knowledge. it lasted for years. second wheel took an hour. I put something on the chainstay to true it.

If you're good at truing a wheel and have some concept of what kind of tension the spokes should have, then you can build a wheel. Singlespeed wheels are a good place to start because the right and left spokes are usually the same length and there usually isn't any dish. Try Sheldon Brown's site on wheel building...

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

That will run you through the basics. If you're mechanically inclined it won't be a problem for you. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Read Gerd Schraners book on wheelbuilding
Jobst Brandt has one too but I much prefer Schraner.

it's not nearly as hard as you'd link, assuming you have half (or even 25%) of a brain. Performance has a truing stand that's only like $40, and it served me very well. There are a couple of people who didn't like it, though.

Do it! It's fun to brag.

rad. that's what i like to hear. i'm generally good with technical things, especially ones that required physical action. i'm a diy sound electronics nerd, so i'm used to slaving away over something until i get it right. i'm sure spokes are a bit more forgiving than electronics. at least the spokes won't shock me, or start smoking.
:D

I dove in and built a front wheel after a bit of reading up (Sheldon's tutorial is good). Got the parts and some linseed oil, and used a fork and brakes (progressively tightened with a tie as the wheel took shape) in place of a truing stand. It's been three bruising years without so much as a 1/4" turn of a nipple. You can do it.

Yeah, I bought that performance truing stand, took an old 27 inch wheel and removed the spokes. Bought new ones and followed Sheldon's page. Now the wheel is on my beater and its still totally true.

If you have a good ear you can equalize spoke tension by pitch. I do that, then bring it into an LBS with a tensiometer and have them tell me how close I am to 100 [whatever the unit is]. Usually I just have to tweak it like a half turn and then true the wheel and its finished. Its sort of shockingly easy and you should totally go for it.

has anyone got the book "the bicycle wheel" (or whatever it's called) that sheldon recommends? i was thinking of picking that up as a guide.

books??? awww, you don't need no stinkin' books. there's more than enough info on the web.

I built my wheels for the fixie, too. You can't really go wrong if you follow Sheldon's instructions, esp. if you can true a wheel already. I don't think I'll ever ride a wheel I didn't build (OK, unless there's a steep discount on a complete bike I want badly...)

has anyone got the book "the bicycle wheel" (or whatever it's called) that sheldon recommends? i was thinking of picking that up as a guide.

Yes that is the one by Jobst Brandt.

THough in my opinion the Gerd Schraner book called the "Art of Wheelbuilding" is way better. His lacing method alone is worth it.

^^^Scan it, post it or PM it. I won't tell. ;)

books??? awww, you don't need no stinkin' books. there's more than enough info on the web.

you're probably right. i might get it anyway tho, as it seems pretty interesting.
i decided to try this out because i found some hums and rims i want to get and i asked how much it would be to build the wheels at my lbs and they said $40 each. i figured i could just spend that loot on wheel-building tools and do it myself.

has anyone got the book "the bicycle wheel" (or whatever it's called) that sheldon recommends? i was thinking of picking that up as a guide.

Yep, we've got it. http://harriscyclery.com/books

Sheldon "Wheels" Brown

+----------------------------------------------+
| If you wish in the world to advance, |
| Your merits you're bound to enhance; |
| You must stir it, and stump it, |
| And blow your own trumpet, |
| Or, trust me, you haven't a chance! |
| --W.S. Gilbert |
+----------------------------------------------+

Read Gerd Schraners book on wheelbuilding
Jobst Brandt has one too but I much prefer Schraner.

Seconded. And wheelbuilding is a stone cold gas.

wheres a good place toget spokes and nipples?

I have built 9 rims so far, road, mtb, and cyclocross with disc. Not really difficult if you do it enough. All I use is the Performance truing stand and the bike as the final gauge. Radial, three cross, is what I have been playing with. The first two rims were a learning experience but after that and a little research no problem with building them nowadays.

FYI,
Schraner's book is on sale at AMAZON (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0964983532/qid=1129327670/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-1880204-2152753?v=glance&s=books)
Dogbait

FYI,
Schraner's book is on sale at AMAZON (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0964983532/qid=1129327670/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-1880204-2152753?v=glance&s=books)
Dogbait

Just make sure you replace DT with Sapim throughout the book.

DT supposedly changed the distance from the elbow to the head to make lacing easier for machines, which causes them to break a lot easier.

Never built or rode DT so I can't confirm, but I do take my LBS's word for it.

Sapims have been great so far!

wheres a good place toget spokes and nipples?

i usually get the from my lbs, so i don't have to deal with figuring out spoke lengths. i bring them the hub and rim, tell them what lacing pattern i'm going to use, and they do all the math.

Wheelbuilding is super-not-hard. Not easy, but definitely easier than filing your taxes.

Also, building a wheel is a great way to while away a rainy afternoon (like the past 8 days).

it's not hard, sheldon's site has a pretty good tutorial.
go for it!


... all you need really...
Well, hubs spokes/nipples and rims will help also.

If your going to splash out for a truing stand think about spending the cash on a tension meter instead. The park one (http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=16&item=TM-1) is the same sort of price as a cheap truing stand. It removes all the guess work from trying to get the correct amount of tension and you can check the tension is even between spokes.

For just a couple of wheels it's not too much bother to use the frame instead of a truing stand.

So does anyone sell cheaper tensionmeteres than the park one?

Alright dammnit, that's it i'm doin it. I'm takin the plunge. This sounds like too much fun to pass up. Whaddaya think mike? 36h Miche/MA3 3x build?

4 cross for 36 spoke wheels. you'll never have to true it. ever.

Read Gerd Schraners book on wheelbuilding
Jobst Brandt has one too but I much prefer Schraner.



Totally agree. Jobst Brandt's book is all theory. Too much talk, not enough walk. Schraner's book is better. Honestly though, the stuff on Sheldon's website is all you need. Best of all. It's free!

4 cross for 36 spoke wheels. you'll never have to true it. ever.


3x for 32 then?
i'm have the same wheel/hub combo as imoncrank coming, but in 32h, and i feel like taking the plunge too.

Read Gerd Schraners book on wheelbuilding
Jobst Brandt has one too but I much prefer Schraner.

That's interesting, 'cause I have both books and found Brandt's spoking method to be *much* more clearly written and easy to follow.

Maybe it's just me, or maybe his is just written better for beginners. I just laced up my 2nd ever set of wheels the other night (all singlespeed. haven't built a geared, dished wheel yet), so it's not as if I'm a terribly experienced wheel builder.

If you want more than online tuturoials to go on, I'd suggest trying to find both books at the library and buying whichever book makes the most sense to you.

-Trevor

Gonna take the plunge as well. I juse received my TS-2 stand because I know I'll be in it for the long haul. I've got a couple of rear hubs that need some wheels built out of them. One's a Nashbar SS and the other is nashbar's rear track hub. I've already got my eyes on some Suzue promax's when I get the money. I see some velocity deep-v mtb rims that are just dying for me to buy. Oh man, I think I'm gonna be in trouble. This seems to be right on par with my other hobby, reloading. The parallels are really close. I mean, what you make is done at a lower cost, although you'll not spend less, as you'll be making more, what you make is going to be better quality, and there's definitely the pride that you made it with your own hands. The advise is pretty much the same, too - you can buy in cheap to see if you want to stay with it, or you can buy the more expensive tools if you know you're gonna like it. For those of you building junkies that are too late to save, what do you do with the extra wheels that you've made? I have two sets of mavic rims that I bought a few years ago because I wanted to build up my own.

i usually get the from my lbs, so i don't have to deal with figuring out spoke lengths. i bring them the hub and rim, tell them what lacing pattern i'm going to use, and they do all the math.

Im going to build the back wheel for my fixie next week, and that's what I plan to do. And if they give your the wrong length, its a goof on their part, not yours. :)

I'm almost done with my first wheel. Surly fix/fix flip-flop laced to a cheap steel 27" rim.

you can build you rim better than anyone else because you can build it right in your frame and the frame is just like a truing stand. flip your bike upside down and use your brakes as guides to true your rim. It's fun, and all you gotta do is copy your other rim. And since any new rim needs to be adjusted after it's broken in you'll be be familiar with the tensioning of spokes. You can even build extra wheels. or have extra wheels with different tires for different riding conditions.

And since any new rim needs to be adjusted after it's broken in you'll be be familiar with the tensioning of spokes.

false. quoting gerd schraner "a properly built never needs trueing." i agree, if you pre-stress and tension the spokes properly, there should be no "breaking in" of the wheel.

If your going to splash out for a truing stand think about spending the cash on a tension meter instead. The park one (http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=16&item=TM-1) is the same sort of price as a cheap truing stand. It removes all the guess work from trying to get the correct amount of tension and you can check the tension is even between spokes.

For just a couple of wheels it's not too much bother to use the frame instead of a truing stand.

i think i'm going to go with the stand and use this http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/tension.htm method for spoke tension. i'll just have to invest in a pitch pipe. ;)

false. quoting gerd schraner "a properly built never needs trueing." i agree, if you pre-stress and tension the spokes properly, there should be no "breaking in" of the wheel.
if you ride your bike like an elderly person your rim may never need inspection or adjustment. If you ride your bike to the extreme, your rim will require adjustments via the spokes. Thats' the total reason why any bicyclist has replaced a rim and it's severity can go all the up to a "tacoed" rim. And if you understand how a wheel is made (by experience), you can fix a bent rim just by the tensioning of spokes. So if you claim a properly built rim never needs truing, there are a lotta poor wheel manufacturers building rims. Personally I don't know anyone who gets through a season of intense biking who doesn't have to adjust their spokes or go all the way to the measure of replacing a wheel. So it's better to do it yourself and be good at it, or riding a bike aint gonna be that much fun. The dude who you copied the quote from is wrong. If he said that to me I'ld have to second analyze any imformation coming from that source.

I think he's referring to the 'pinging' some people talk about hearing on a freshly built wheel. If properly stress relieved and the spokes weren't twisted, there should be no 'pinging' or 'breaking in' and no primary re-true.

Jack - Miche on MA3's sounds good. CXP22's aren't much more than MA3 and seem to be a bit more popular if you're still thinking about re-sale...

I've been building my own wheels for twenty years now, no way I'd ride on wheels I didn't build with my own hands.
First off you get exactly what you want. Me, I want 14/15 double butted on the drive side of the rear wheel, 15/16 everywhere else. Asymnetrical, inside pulling, cross 3, too.
Hint 1: Allow lots of time. Rushing the build, unless you build wheels often (and therefore have lots of practice) is going to bite you in the @ss.
Hint 2: There are online spoke length calculators. Use them. Sub-Hint: the spoke calculators, especially the DT one, will tell you that the front wheel spokes are to be one (or so) millimeter longer than the non-drive side on the rear wheel. Ignore that: get them all the same size. You will end up with, for the rear wheel, drive side spokes that are 3mm longer than the non-drive side, which will lead right into:
Hint 3: Got a tensiometer? I don't. How do you keep the spoke tensions somewhat even? Count the number of rotations for each spoke. Remember Hint 1? Leave yourself ample time! Each spoke, in my experience, gets between 12 and 18 turns to get to full tension. I generally give each spoke 12 turns to get everything in loose order, ie to make sure the lacing pattern is right, and the spoke pattern doesn't interfere with access to the valve stem. From there the wheel goes into the truing stand for the rest of the build. Remember the 2-3 mm difference in spoke length for the rear wheel? The shorter, drive side spokes will allow you to tighten all the rear spokes the same number of turns and takes care of most (usually all) of the necessary dish. For my fix wheels (single sided Campys) the length difference is 1mm, although you can use equal length with no problem.
Hard anodized rims are, well, hard. They're very stiff and they lace up and true quickly. Because of the stiffness, an undertensioned spoke can get through without you noticing, so be careful. Plain aluminum rims are a lot softer, so they take a bit longer to set up, as any variance in tension will show up as the rim being out of round. However, you'll be sure that the wheel is really round when you're done.
Hint 4: get the roundness and trueness set while the spokes are fairly loose. It's a lot easier.
Hint 5: Make sure to run up the tension! Most folks, myself included, don't tension the spokes properly at first. As a practical matter, it's pretty hard to overtighten the spokes. If you find that the nipples are pulling through the rim because of the tension you're putting them under, you should probably rethink rolling your own.
Hint 6: Sleep on it. After you think you're done, put them down and check them the next day. You'd be surprised.

if you ride your bike like an elderly person your rim may never need inspection or adjustment. If you ride your bike to the extreme, your rim will require adjustments via the spokes. Thats' the total reason why any bicyclist has replaced a rim and it's severity can go all the up to a "tacoed" rim. And if you understand how a wheel is made (by experience), you can fix a bent rim just by the tensioning of spokes. So if you claim a properly built rim never needs truing, there are a lotta poor wheel manufacturers building rims. Personally I don't know anyone who gets through a season of intense biking who doesn't have to adjust their spokes or go all the way to the measure of replacing a wheel. So it's better to do it yourself and be good at it, or riding a bike aint gonna be that much fun. The dude who you copied the quote from is wrong. If he said that to me I'ld have to second analize any imformation coming from that source.

This posting is a bit hard to understand since the poster doesn't seem to understand the difference between a "rim" and a "wheel" but I would agree that a properly built wheel should give long service without needing any adjustment.

If you regularly damage wheels, it suggests that you are using equipment that isn't strong enough for your riding style.

Fixed gear wheels, in particular, ought to be extra trouble-free due to the symmetrical lacing of the dishless rear hubs.

If you're having actual trouble with your rims it suggests that you're running tires that are either too skinny or not inflated sufficiently for your type of cycling and surface conditions.

Sheldon "Good Wheels Last" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| Ah, but I was so much older then, |
| I'm younger than that now. |
| -Bob Dylan |
+-------------------------------------------+

This posting is a bit hard to understand since the poster doesn't seem to understand the difference between a "rim" and a "wheel" but I would agree that a properly built wheel should give long service without needing any adjustment.

If you regularly damage wheels, it suggests that you are using equipment that isn't strong enough for your riding style.

Fixed gear wheels, in particular, ought to be extra trouble-free due to the symmetrical lacing of the dishless rear hubs.

If you're having actual trouble with your rims it suggests that you're running tires that are either too skinny or not inflated sufficiently for your type of cycling and surface conditions.

Sheldon "Good Wheels Last" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| Ah, but I was so much older then, |
| I'm younger than that now. |
| -Bob Dylan |
+-------------------------------------------+
yeah... right! A rim is just the rim. ok? a wheel is the rim, spokes, and a hub, assembled. are you gonna ask if a wheel has the tire on it or not to be called, technically a wheel? Like I said if you ride like an old person, you aint gonna hurt your rim. If you bomb the nasty trails, all it takes is one branch stuck in your spokes to rip your rim apart, and there aint no way i'm staying away from the Mississippi river bluffs. I use fat tires and they never let me down. But I ride harder than the average biker because I want more out of biking. So when you push the limits your gonna pay in either trashing your body or your bike. You have to know how to maintain both.

yeah... right! A rim is just the rim. ok? a wheel is the rim, spokes, and a hub, assembled. are you gonna ask if a wheel has the tire on it or not to be called, technically a wheel? Like I said if you ride like an old person, you aint gonna hurt your rim. If you bomb the nasty trails, all it takes is one branch stuck in your spokes to rip your rim apart, and there aint no way i'm staying away from the Mississippi river bluffs. I use fat tires and they never let me down. But I ride harder than the average biker because I want more out of biking. So when you push the limits your gonna pay in either trashing your body or your bike. You have to know how to maintain both.

If you get a stick caught in your spokes, you're liable to bust some spokes, but it doesn't usually damage the rim.

Very unusual for a rim to get "ripped apart" because the spoke tension holds it together.

Sheldon "Tires Protect Rims" Brown
+-----------------------------------------+
| He not busy being born is busy dying. |
| -Bob Dylan |
+-----------------------------------------+

ooooh fighting with sheldon brown. I don't think i've ever seen that maneuver before. I'ma go make some popcorn hold on a sec.

ooooh fighting with sheldon brown.

Never a good idea.

ooooh fighting with sheldon brown. I don't think i've ever seen that maneuver before. I'ma go make some popcorn hold on a sec.
I'm imagining that scene from Kill Bill V.2 where the Bride is trying to hit the kung-fu master with her sword, and he ends up standing on it.

hahaha. Indeed. Beard and all. So should i go 3 or 4x for my first 36 spoke wheel? What's the diff?

yeah... right! A rim is just the rim. ok? a wheel is the rim, spokes, and a hub, assembled. are you gonna ask if a wheel has the tire on it or not to be called, technically a wheel? Like I said if you ride like an old person, you aint gonna hurt your rim. If you bomb the nasty trails, all it takes is one branch stuck in your spokes to rip your rim apart, and there aint no way i'm staying away from the Mississippi river bluffs. I use fat tires and they never let me down. But I ride harder than the average biker because I want more out of biking. So when you push the limits your gonna pay in either trashing your body or your bike. You have to know how to maintain both.


you are an idiot.

I've been building my own wheels for twenty years now, no way I'd ride on wheels I didn't build with my own hands.
First off you get exactly what you want. Me, I want 14/15 double butted on the drive side of the rear wheel, 15/16 everywhere else. Asymnetrical, inside pulling, cross 3, too.
Hint 1: Allow lots of time. Rushing the build, unless you build wheels often (and therefore have lots of practice) is going to bite you in the @ss.
Hint 2: There are online spoke length calculators. Use them. Sub-Hint: the spoke calculators, especially the DT one, will tell you that the front wheel spokes are to be one (or so) millimeter longer than the non-drive side on the rear wheel. Ignore that: get them all the same size. You will end up with, for the rear wheel, drive side spokes that are 3mm longer than the non-drive side, which will lead right into:
Hint 3: Got a tensiometer? I don't. How do you keep the spoke tensions somewhat even? Count the number of rotations for each spoke. Remember Hint 1? Leave yourself ample time! Each spoke, in my experience, gets between 12 and 18 turns to get to full tension. I generally give each spoke 12 turns to get everything in loose order, ie to make sure the lacing pattern is right, and the spoke pattern doesn't interfere with access to the valve stem. From there the wheel goes into the truing stand for the rest of the build. Remember the 2-3 mm difference in spoke length for the rear wheel? The shorter, drive side spokes will allow you to tighten all the rear spokes the same number of turns and takes care of most (usually all) of the necessary dish. For my fix wheels (single sided Campys) the length difference is 1mm, although you can use equal length with no problem.
Hard anodized rims are, well, hard. They're very stiff and they lace up and true quickly. Because of the stiffness, an undertensioned spoke can get through without you noticing, so be careful. Plain aluminum rims are a lot softer, so they take a bit longer to set up, as any variance in tension will show up as the rim being out of round. However, you'll be sure that the wheel is really round when you're done.
Hint 4: get the roundness and trueness set while the spokes are fairly loose. It's a lot easier.
Hint 5: Make sure to run up the tension! Most folks, myself included, don't tension the spokes properly at first. As a practical matter, it's pretty hard to overtighten the spokes. If you find that the nipples are pulling through the rim because of the tension you're putting them under, you should probably rethink rolling your own.
Hint 6: Sleep on it. After you think you're done, put them down and check them the next day. You'd be surprised.

this is really helpful, i think i'm going to save this somewhere for future reference. thanks for taking the time to be this thorough.