preaching to the choir

[halimec05]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ViciousCycle]

halimeco5, your post touches on a lot of the paradoxes people have to grapple with. If 50% of the people that you see are spending 4 hours a day by car commuting, the quality of their life is likely suffering because of it. The "single mother of 3 children" that you use as an example isn't able to spend time with her children during the long commute and might too be tired and cranky by the time she's worked and commuted 4 hours to spend regular, meaningful time with her children.

The current issue of Scientific American's Mind even talks about health problems associated with long commutes and claims that it takes a deeper toll on commuters than they may be able to admit to themselves.

Here's one conundrum I often see with car drivers with long commutes. Ask them what they think of their car, and they may say lots of good things about it. Ask them what they think of their commute -- the way in which they use their car most often -- and you will hear grumbling and ranting and unhappiness. There's some major cognitive dissonance going on.

[Roody]

this is all well and good but. . .bikers aren't the problem to begin with. This really involves some fundamental questions about values in our society and I certainly don't feel like I have enough of the data or answers to tell someone they shouldn't try to build personal wealth by owning real estate that will appreciate but puts them so far from their place of employment that they have to commute 4 hours a day by car to get there. That describes at least 50% of the people I see on the road one day a week when I drive. The other thing they have in common is families. I don't have children, that makes being a bicycle commuter incredibly less complicated. When I was in China back in the mid eighties ( when only party fat-cats and foreign dilomats drove cars) people all rode bicycles out of necessity. I think thats what it will have to come to here and I really don't think many people in this forum appreciate how bad things will have to get for that to happen. Think of it this way: thousands of people don't risk their lives every year to illegally cross the border into the U.S. to build a new life where they have to ride a bicycle to work every day. People fundamentally want better lives for themselves and their children, when does life without a car become better? It works for me but I'm not sure it would work for a single mother of 3 children trying to pay a mortgage in suburban atlanta.
Every individual will decide if a carfree life is right for them, and what part, if any, bicycles will play. But most people are brainwashed and unable to think freely for themselves when it comes to the idea of automobiles. Our entire culture and way of life in North America and Europe is so bound up in cars that most people can't conceive of any options. I don't think the "single mother in the suburbs" has been adequately informed of the alternatives, so she can't really be said to have made a fully informed decision about her life choices. Almost everybody in our society, in fact, is totally unable to conceive of living without an automobile. So we let them know. When they see us or talk to us, and see how happy and healthy we are, at least their eyes are opened a tiny bit.

When does life without a car become better? As soon as you give up your cultural biases, and as soon as you learn HOW to do it properly. That is, cliche single mom must first learn that she can do what she wants without a car, then (or simultaneously) learn the tricks and techniques that we talk about on this forum.

Another answer is that life without a car becomes better when gas prices hit X$ and the car is an albatross around your neck. A third answer is that it becomes better when enough people do it, and they demand and receive less urban sprawl, less traffic congestion, less pollution, fewer deadly traffic accidents. and more liveable communities.

[___]

Every individual will decide if a carfree life is right for them, and what part, if any, bicycles will play. But most people are brainwashed and unable to think freely for themselves when it comes to the idea of automobiles. Our entire culture and way of life in North America and Europe is so bound up in cars that most people can't conceive of any options. I don't think the "single mother in the suburbs" has been adequately informed of the alternatives, so she can't really be said to have made a fully informed decision about her life choices. Almost everybody in our society, in fact, is totally unable to conceive of living without an automobile. So we let them know. When they see us or talk to us, and see how happy and healthy we are, at least their eyes are opened a tiny bit.

When does life without a car become better? As soon as you give up your cultural biases, and as soon as you learn HOW to do it properly. That is, cliche single mom must first learn that she can do what she wants without a car, then (or simultaneously) learn the tricks and techniques that we talk about on this forum.

Another answer is that life without a car becomes better when gas prices hit X$ and the car is an albatross around your neck. A third answer is that it becomes better when enough people do it, and they demand and receive less urban sprawl, less traffic congestion, less pollution, fewer deadly traffic accidents. and more liveable communities.


No doubt -- western society has succesfully mastered the art of socially engineering the car-centric based life = success mindset to the rest of the world save a few forward thinking pockets.

[pedex]

Well, as a child born in an upper middleclass family thats exactly how we are raised and taught. It took me till I was about 35 years old till I finally said enough is enough. I was one of the most rabid auto people you might ever come across, ive had 23 vehicles and been in the delivery business my whole life. Ive racked up 1.1 million miles of driving tween age 16 and 35. After being in business doing that and fighting the vehicle equity/value problems inherent in that kind of life I finally quit it and changed to a bike messenger, seemed like an obvious solution, yet one that most wont even consider. The real value of that decision didnt come till much later, and alot of it I had no clue about till it was already happening, FITNESS.

As a typical young white male kid in a typical american family I was raised to avoid exercise, get married, buy a house, have 2.3 kids, live in the burbs, and that was "success". I have no explanation as to why I never did all that other than all my life I just felt like something was just wrong about the whole thing. For some reason it just didnt make sense to me. I have nothing against marriage or kids, and I may do that someday, but the rest of it seemed like a vicious never ending cycle. I guess I came to realize "things" and material possessions dont equal happiness or success, and thats not really the best way to articulate this, I really dont know how to right at the moment, but thats pretty close.

I have come to realize though that as humans and animals fitness from wherever, commuting, working, whatever, brings a natural sort of rythm to life, and being car free makes that part quite easy. But, its also only part of the equation, the satisfaction of trying to be a good steward in my own way towards leaving as little impact as possible to my existence here on earth is important to me as well. There's always more that can be done, and if my example helps others, then all the better.

[becnal]

Hear Hear, Pedex!

[ViciousCycle]

I certainly don't feel that I have enough of the data or answers to tell someone they shouldn't try to build personal wealth by owning real estate that will appreciate but puts them so far from their place of employment that they have to commute 4 hours a day by car to get there.

A house is not an investment; it's a consumer purchase. When we get led into believing that a home is an investment, we make all sorts of bad decisions. First off, we become willing to overpay for the house in the first place. When the house then "appreciates", we can pat ourselves on the back for overpaying for the house in the first place. Second, we put up with misleading information from banks. When a bank tells me that they are willing to let me tap into the equity of my house, they are giving me a LOAN that I have to pay back to them. But there's a huge difference between money that is mine and money that is lent to me. Third, we have to ignore history. Housing bubbles do burst and never recover. During redlining in the early 70's, entire neighborhoods went from being prestigious to being slums virtually overnight. When fossil fuels are no longer cheap or plentiful, many suburban housing developments are liable to become slums. When houses are located vast distances from work or other places people need to be, these houses will likely plummet in value.

If you want to read more about how the inconveniently located suburbs of today may become the slums of tommorrow, look into Kunstler's The Long Emergency.

[pedex]

Another often overlooked issue with houses is property tax, sounds weird but in my neighborhood for example which is one of the oldest in columbus its very very common for many homeowners to have tax payments which exceed their original mortgage payments, in essence, you never own your house. When the money gets tight cities are going to be forced to increase taxes just like everyone else will up their prices, no pun intended VC, but it ends up being a vicious cycle. Some of these folks have huge 100 year old homes, most are victorian style, very piggy with energy, but they are also within 2 miles of downtown, thats future prime realestate, some of these people will be forced out by taxes alone. Heating/cooling and electric will be difficult enough to deal with.

[Pampusik]

Sure, a house is an investment... and, for many people, it can be highly enfranchising. Like most so-called investments, however, it is highly speculative.