Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - SF made messenger racks for the front wheel??

A friend of mine is looking for more info on a rack like this:
http://www.sandsmachine.com/a_syc_r1.htm

I thought i saw pics of something like that here on the boards... but can't seem to dig anything up.
Anyone got any info as to obtaining something like this?

http://www.sandsmachine.com/p_sycr15.jpg

thanks.

that bike is slick as hell, and i want a rack like that too

idiot question alert: can someone explain to me the reasons for and effects of geometry like that? it looks like mountain bike geometry, no?

Maybe becuase it is a MTB?

Not the same rack but here is one similar. www.paulcomp.com click flatbed

http://www.cetmalabs.com/CETMAdata.html

here you go...

idiot question alert: can someone explain to me the reasons for and effects of geometry like that? it looks like mountain bike geometry, no?

Neat company: http://www.sycip.com/

http://www.cetmalabs.com/CETMAdata.html

here you go...


maybe im a cheap bastard, but 20 bucks shipping is ****in outrageous.

http://www.antbikemike.com/basketsandracks.html

Mike will build you one for only $100 if you let him build a frame while he's at it. ;)

That's Joel Metz's custom Sycip w/ its custom Sycip front rack.

Joel is an ex-SF now Portland courier. His web site is here:

http://blackbirdsf.org/

Pay special attention to the pages dedicated to 'porteur' bikes.

Good question about the front end geometry. Carrying 20kg up front does require special attention to geometry.

We're building a rack like this and the frame and fork to go with it. It will ship at the beginning of the year. The geometry was developed by Jan Heine. It's based on a 1952 Herse porteur.

Here's an early rendering of what it will look like:

http://kogswell.com/images/sneak2.jpg

And here a not-quite-current blueprint:

http://kogswell.com/images/sneak9.jpg

No, this isn't a track bike. It's design to do work. So we don't expect hipsters to grok it. But it will be priced like all other Kogswell frames which will make it a good value for working class cyclists.

Good question about the front end geometry. Carrying 20kg up front does require special attention to geometry.

We're building a rack like this and the frame and fork to go with it. It will ship at the beginning of the year. The geometry was developed by Jan Heine. It's based on a 1952 Herse porteur.

.

If you're designing a bike to carry heavy loads, why do you have the front rack attached to the front wheel, where it moves as you steer? Wouldn't it be better it attach the front rack directly to the frame itself, dutch style?

There are a couple of reasons. 1) You're carrying someone's property and you want to make sure it doesn't go anywhere on you. II) It can be wider than what you might carry on the back because you can see it to maneuver it. c) It's actually better to weight up the front wheel for handling because bicycles tend to be too rear heavy to begin with. Adding more weight makes it handle squirrelly and can even make it buck while you're trying to mount up if you put too much (say 20 kg) on the back.

Matthew, do you know anyone in Boston with an F-series? I saw one rolling by yesterday in Harvard Sq.

There are a couple of reasons. 1) You're carrying someone's property and you want to make sure it doesn't go anywhere on you. II) It can be wider than what you might carry on the back because you can see it to maneuver it. c) It's actually better to weight up the front wheel for handling because bicycles tend to be too rear heavy to begin with. Adding more weight makes it handle squirrelly and can even make it buck while you're trying to mount up if you put too much (say 20 kg) on the back.


Not talking about front versus back racks. I've seen some euro bikes where the rack is in the front, suported by an extension from the top/down tubes, not the front wheel. This gives you the advantages of the front rack, without having to actually wrestle all that weight around whenever you move the front wheel.

like this.
http://www.zednet.co.uk/onyerbike/listings/7.gif

http://www.cetmalabs.com/CETMAdata.html

here you go...

Perfect! thanks Karmical!

[edit] hmmm. just realized the max weight on these is 8 lbs!

not going to get many records on the thing at 8 lbs..

Perfect! thanks Karmical!

[edit] hmmm. just realized the max weight on these is 8 lbs!

I think that's the weight of the rack, rather than the carried weight.

Not talking about front versus back racks. I've seen some euro bikes where the rack is in the front, suported by an extension from the top/down tubes, not the front wheel. This gives you the advantages of the front rack, without having to actually wrestle all that weight around whenever you move the front wheel.

Ah, like

http://www.antbikemike.com/images/Bikes/frontal2big.JPG

This is sort of a take on the traditional butcher's bike:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hembrow/currysbutchers.jpg

http://www.bike-x-perts.com/images/Jaekel-Baecker-Klassik.jpg

I'll let Matthew speak for himself, but I suspect it's because the above are really optimized for carrying heavy loads and not much else. They're cargo bikes and don't really lend themselves well to just cruising around.

Ah, like

http://www.antbikemike.com/images/Bikes/frontal2big.JPG



that's impressive, i wish i was dedicated enough to use something like that...

It's one of those things where I'm like, dang, I sure wish I had one of those. But I don't want to actually ride it most of the time, just have it.

The one pictured has an estimated cargo capacity of 60 lbs or so, which is similar to many light trailers. Unless you use it all the time as a work bike, you'd probably be better off just hooking up a trailer when you need it.

These guys use it all the time.

http://www.antbikemike.com/images/flomrb.jpg

http://members.efn.org/~cat/images/Longrack.JPG

http://members.efn.org/~cat/html/longhaul.htm
Human Powered Machines Longhaul cargo bike. Load is between the wheels and low, which makes for very good handling even with huge loads. We've got three of these and use them every day. Rated at 200# plus rider, I've put 400# up front with 200# of me on the saddle. Mine is fully speced out with a mix of Phil/King/XTR parts with some downhill cranks and beefy rims.

I've also towed 700# with that thing!

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=112&subcategory=1079&brand=&sku=15215&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

word. thanks for all the info people!

No, this isn't a track bike. It's design to do work. So we don't expect hipsters to grok it. But it will be priced like all other Kogswell frames which will make it a good value for working class cyclists.

Nice Stranger in a Strange Land quote there Kogswell. I still dig that book to this day, 3rd time reading.

I'd share water with you any time.

Not the same rack but here is one similar. www.paulcomp.com click flatbed
A friend of mine has one of these, they tend to be unstable, even with proper installation, I wouldn't recomend it for heavy loads.

Not talking about front versus back racks. I've seen some euro bikes where the rack is in the front, suported by an extension from the top/down tubes, not the front wheel. This gives you the advantages of the front rack, without having to actually wrestle all that weight around whenever you move the front wheel.

The royal mail bikes here do that.
http://static.flickr.com/8/8109852_40332b24db_m.jpg
http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/hanczyc/jpg/market2.jpg
They are very easy to steer at low speed even when fully loaded. It might be a bit easier in really tight spots if the rack rotated with the forks. When doing tight turns with a fixed position rack the wheel is turned sideways but the rack is still jutting out forwards, effectively adds a couple of feet to the wheel base.
If you spend most of the time without a load fixing the rack to the fork makes sense.

I saw a postal bike in Paris that's a lot like that - here it is:

http://www.pbase.com/flippinghades/image/50855709.jpg

Hi folks, I'm the sole-owner and operator of CETMA (http://cetmalabs.com/CETMAdata.html). I make these. And this is NOT spam.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/lancekagar/silverfrontquarterview.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/lancekagar/largesizefrontviewsitecopy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/lancekagar/doublefileboxsitecopy.jpg



Thought I'd chime in to clear up a few things and offer an opinion or two.


First of all, 8 pounds is the weight of the Woodslat (http://cetmalabs.com/CETMAwoodslat.html) CETMArack, not the weight capacity. I hope it's clear on the website.

I really like Joel's amazing custom rack and the beautiful ANT racks, but buying either of them wouldn't do me any good because they don't fit MY bike! (Joel told me his friends at Sycip custom-made his rack for his fork).

The frame-mounted Dutch butcher bikes are an excellent idea too, but I don't want to change bikes--I like mine. The Paul Components Flatbed...$150 and it only holds 25 pounds? Nah. There's a messenger downtown (SF) that "uses" one, and he told me it sucks. It's broken, the wood slats are loose, and the headset contraption isn't practical.

I honestly think the CETMAracks (http://cetmalabs.com/CETMAracks.html) are the best value for the average person. They're strong, practical, rigorously tested (fifteen SF messengers have been using them daily for a year now), universal (no shocks or really tall bikes), and CHEAP.


Additionally, there's a magazine in the UK called Velovision (http://www.velovision.co.uk/). It's run by a guy named Peter Eland, and showcases some REALLY cool stuff. For those looking for freight-bikes and unique carriers, check it out.

^

i'm kicking around ordering one of these in the next couple of days, it'll be perfect for what i want to use it for. has anyone used it yet?

I have a CETMA rack and love it, BTW. :)

Ha! Glad to hear it arrived okay and you're getting good use out of it!

My friend made a pie to bring to a new years party we were going to, so I quickly threw a front rack on my bike, and attached a piece of plywood to it. We gently placed the pie on some padding in a card board box (cut to fit the pie) and strapped the box down. Pie arrived to the party in one piece :). Delicious too!

what kind of pie was it?

I have a CETMA rack and love it, BTW. :)

how much does it add to the front end? see i will be carrying i think its a 20lb tank like one of these pictured, and just want to know if its going to make for a strange road feel, and i should ditch the idea and go for something out back instead.

what kind of pie was it?

Peach Pecan

how much does it add to the front end? see i will be carrying i think its a 20lb tank like one of these pictured, and just want to know if its going to make for a strange road feel, and i should ditch the idea and go for something out back instead.

It's not bad at all with light loads, say >15. I carried a 20 lb box of laundry once and it was ROUGH. It was pretty wide though.. all of my turns were very.... heavy. :)

I have a CETMA rack on my mountain bike and I have been very happy with it. I went with the wide rack, it can do two file boxes, no problem. I don't know what Lane recomends for load capacity, but handling is fine with 30 pounds. The most weight I ever carried was 6 gallon jugs of water (about 50 pounds.) Handling wasn't great with 50 pounds on the front, but I managed just fine getting across town and going up and down some decent hills. You can strap things on much faster than with a back rack, and put a hand on anything that starts to move. Even after a few drunken crashes it is holding up great.
-James

thanks for the info, i just emailed cetma, if they're stocked and down with local pick up i'll be grabbing one of the 8 rail racks over the next couple days. if not down with local pick up, i'll be at the mercy of ups/usps and i have lost faith since i've been waiting on several things over the holiday period.

No sweat, friend. You can pick one up anytime! How's Saturday sound?

saturday sounds great. pm me when and where, and thanks in advance...


k<

thanks again lane, it was nice meeting you and your wife last night, feel free to stop by any monday night from a beer or two.

for all those that didn't know, lane met up with me and brought my rack out to me, hows that for customer service :D

still have a bit of tweaking to dial it in, but i like it... i like it a lot!

Hey karmical, looking good! For some reason, I love how bikes look with big front racks. Maybe it's because I know how useful they are, and useful bikes make me happy.

Where did you get those grips? There's a bike I see in downtown SF every day with the same grips, and I want a pair.

thanks again lane, it was nice meeting you and your wife last night, feel free to stop by any monday night from a beer or two.

for all those that didn't know, lane met up with me and brought my rack out to me, hows that for customer service :D

still have a bit of tweaking to dial it in, but i like it... i like it a lot!

You're very welcome, sir. My pleasure!

Hey karmical, looking good! For some reason, I love how bikes look with big front racks. Maybe it's because I know how useful they are, and useful bikes make me happy.

Where did you get those grips? .

its funny, just got a wild hair last week about needing a utility bike something i could use to get outside and to 'go for' stuff for the job, plus errands of my own, pretty good match thus far, can't wait to throw the fenders on, since its been kind of wet lately...


got the grips from these guys over in oakland-
http://www.bayareabikes.com/

Kronan makes a sweet looking front rack, that doesn't turn with the bike, weighs 1.5 pounds and looks heavy duty. I think this is what european delivery bikes use.

http://www.kronancycle.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/front_carrier_black.gif

Kronan Cycle USA (http://www.kronancycle.com/cgi-sys/mivavm?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KCU&Product_Code=218180)

For those interested...


Within a few days, the retail price of all CETMAracks will be increasing by twenty dollars. Additionally, they'll be better coated with enamel paint.

Shipping will still be free.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/lancekagar/6railblackcompressed300.jpg