Advocacy & Safety - Cyclist killed by bus in North Carolina

Latest Cycling News for October 17, 2005, CyclingNews.com

36 year-old cyclist Todd Weaver has been killed after being hit by a bus in Charlotte, North Carolina, USA last Friday afternoon. According to the Charlotte Observer, Weaver was riding north along South Tryon at approximately 5:00pm when the southbound CATS bus, driven by 50 year-old Jerry Miller, turned left into a parking lot. Weaver hit the bus near the door and was killed almost immediately, as medics were unable to revive him at the scene.

The tragedy was compounded by the fact that Miller had a history of accidents, including one just half an hour before the one involving Weaver. At approximately 4:30pm on Friday, Miller hit a planter as he turned from Fourth Street into South Tryon. No-one was seriously injured. According to police records, Miller had had five accidents in the previous four and a half years. He has not been charged in the Weaver death.

More information, including funeral details, can be found at www.toddweaver.org

(All rights reserved/Copyright Knapp Communications Pty Limited 2005)
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/oct05/oct17news2

[QUOTE=anders]The tragedy was compounded by the fact that Miller had a history of accidents, including one just half an hour before the one involving Weaver. [QUOTE]

No the tragedy was compounded by the fact that Miller has not been charged in the Weaver death.

CATS bus strikes, kills cyclist

11:29 PM EDT on Friday, October 14, 2005
By 6NEWS staff

A CATS bus driver with an extensive history of accidents struck and killed a bicycle rider moments after an accident that forced several passengers to change busses, police said Friday.

According to police, the accident happened just after 5 p.m. in the 3100 block of South Tryon Street, near the intersection of South Tryon and Remount Road.

Jerry Miller, the driver involved in the accident, was headed back to the CATS depot, when he hit 36-year-old Todd Weaver of Concord. He has had seven accidents in his 4 1/2 years of employment, according to police records.

Moments before hitting the cyclist, Miller had hit a planter in what CATS officials described as a "minor property damage incident." Seven people reporting minor injuries were taken to the hospital, and passengers were taken off the bus and transferred to another.

Another CATS driver collided with a car earlier Friday morning at 5th and 7th streets, sending 12 people to the hospital. Tuesday, a bus driver ran a stop sign and had to swerve to avoid a car.

6NEWS reporter Rebecca Lindstrom and WCNC.com producer Andre Dykes contributed to this report.

CATS cut the number of bus-involved accidents in half last fiscal year, a CATS spokesman said.

Police have not filed any charges against Miller.

From http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/101405-jr-ad-wcnc-buxax.f45a2866.html (requires registration)

Cyclist dies in collision with off-duty city bus
The driver of a CATS bus that collided with and killed a bicycle rider Friday on South Tryon Street had been in another wreck 30 minutes earlier and was returning the bus to the station, city officials said.

The bicyclist and bus collided in front of the entrance to the South Tryon Bus Facility near Clanton Road just before 5 p.m. The bike rider, identified as Todd Matthew Weaver, was thrown about 20 feet and landed in the driveway, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police said.

The bus driver, who Charlotte Area Transit System officials identified as 50-year-old Jerry Lee Miller, was not injured. A CATS driver for 4 1/2 years, Miller previously had five other on-duty wrecks, CATS spokeswoman Jean Leier said.

After Friday's wrecks, he was placed on unpaid leave. He was also tested for drugs, which is routine in wrecks with injuries. The results weren't immediately available.

At about 4:30 p.m. Friday, Miller hit a planter as he turned bus No. 707 left from Fourth Street onto South Tryon, Leier said. The wreck was minor, but Medic took six passengers to hospitals for evaluations. Miller was told to take his bus back to the South Tryon transit center and then report for a drug test.

Less than 30 minutes later, Miller, southbound on Tryon, was making a left into the parking lot when the bus collided with Weaver, who was riding north, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police Sgt. Ricky Robbins said. Medics worked on 36-year-old Weaver, but pronounced him dead in the driveway. He had been wearing a helmet and other gear.

Weaver lives in Concord and works in Charlotte. Robbins said Weaver rode his bike to work every day.

Dan Seeman, who works on Clanton and was headed to a nearby hardware store, said he saw the collision. The bicyclist was a big guy, he said, and had gotten his attention.

"One moment he was alive and riding by me," Seeman said, "and the next he was dead."

Seeman said the man on the bicycle was riding fast and seemed to have his head down. The bike hit the bus near the door.

The bus driver couldn't get his front door open, Seeman said, and exited from a back one. The driver checked on the bicyclist, told Seeman to call 911, then ran for help.

Robbins said officers will complete an investigation and turn their findings over to the Mecklenburg County district attorney, who will decide if charges are appropriate.

Leier said she did not know details of Miller's other wrecks, but said they involved property damage and no injuries. She also did not know if he had been tested for drugs previously, but said drivers are terminated if they test positive.

Leier would not say whether it was uncommon for a driver to be involved in seven wrecks. She said union guidelines say drivers can face termination if they have four in 36 consecutive months. They can be fired sooner depending on the severity, she added.

Three of Miller's five previous wrecks were within 32 consecutive months, she said. After Friday, Miller had five wrecks in 32 months.

CATS supervisors report to all wrecks and have the discretion, Leier said, to allow the driver to take the bus back to the facility or to call someone else.

Melissa Manware: (704) 358-5041; mmanware@charlotteobserver.com.
From http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/12908957.htm (requires registration)

Todd Matthew Weaver
August 4, 1969 - October 14, 2005
On Friday, October 14, 2005, Todd was killed in an accident.

The funeral and memorial service will be held at Hickory Grove Baptist Church in Concord, North Carolina on Wednesday, October 19th at 1pm. Please note that there are two campuses. The funeral and memorial service will be held at the North campus.

The family will receive friends and family at the Hartsell Funeral Home in Concord, North Carolina on Tuesday, October 18th from 6pm to 8pm. The address is 460 Branchview Drive NE, Concord NC.
In lieu of flowers, the family requests that donations be made to The King's Chapel, Clifford R. Scoles Treasurer, 1423 Kelvin Court, Cincinnati, Ohio 45240. Please address checks to "The King's Chapel" and note "Weaver Children Support Fund" on the check memo line. (The King's Chapel is Todd's brother's church.)

Pam Weaver
4778 Asherton Place
Concord, NC 28027
(704) 262-3735

The bus driver, who Charlotte Area Transit System officials identified as 50-year-old Jerry Lee Miller, was not injured.

Big surprise. Bus hits bike. Bus driver survives.

Leier said she did not know details of Miller's other wrecks, but said they involved property damage and no injuries.

Oh! 7 other wrecks, but only property damage. And only 1 death. No problem. Let him keep driving the bus.

Shouldn't they have been able to predict that eventually Miller was going to hurt someone?

Not only should Miller go to jail, but the bus company owners should go to jail.

The bus driver was obviously at fault and should be charged with manslaughter. I have observed that "public servants" get away with things that routinely land the common citizen in jail....

Seeman said the man on the bicycle was riding fast and seemed to have his head down. The bike hit the bus near the door. The bus driver couldn't get his front door open, Seeman said, and exited from a back one. The driver checked on the bicyclist, told Seeman to call 911, then ran for help.


He must have hit the bus terribly hard for that to happen.

Thank you trekets. Too many times on this forum, the mob assembles and starts looking for some rope and a tree.

By the way, what would change if the bus driver had a previously perfect driving record?

Seeman said the man on the bicycle was riding fast and seemed to have his head down. The bike hit the bus near the door.

Not as clear cut as the "bus hits bike" makes it seem....

By the way, what would change if the bus driver had a previously perfect driving record?
It would show that the driver of the bus had not previously had several accidents prior to killing this person. Really now, are you suggesting that a man with that many accidents, including one a short time before where he showed that he was not properly aware of the space his bus occupied, should still have been driving for a living?

I haven't had that many accidents in my entire life, let alone within 32 months.

It would show that the driver of the bus had not previously had several accidents prior to killing this person. Really now, are you suggesting that a man with that many accidents, including one a short time before where he showed that he was not properly aware of the space his bus occupied, should still have been driving for a living?

I haven't had that many accidents in my entire life, let alone within 32 months.

Wow. Who did he kill? Because based on the sparse info posted in this thread, one might assume that a cyclist ran into the side of the bus. A witness said the cyclist had his head down and was really moving. He hit the bus on the door side, hard enough to damage the door, and still fly 20ft. Not to make light of the death of this person, but what makes the cyclist always right?

Too many of you are too quick to judge, and then you complain when no charges are filed. Rather than let my emotions take over, I'll ask the hard questions. Was the cyclist familiar with the area? The accident location was the driveway to the bus facility. Seems like a place to be extra wary of. Was the cyclist paying attention? Did he try to beat the bus? Did he even see it? Were cars parked along the side of the road? 5 PM, how visible was this cyclist. I'm sure the driver checked to make sure no cars were coming, and made his turn. He either did not notice the cyclist, or misjudged his speed. So how did this cyclist fail to see a bus turning in front of him? Common sense dictates that when you come upon a driveway or side street, you need to look out for traffic entering and exiting.

If anyone wants to challenge anything I've written, please provide some kind of evidence to support your position. While my sympathy goes out to the family of Mr. Weaver, I'm not so quick to put all the blame on either party.

Wow. Who did he kill? Because based on the sparse info posted in this thread, one might assume that a cyclist ran into the side of the bus. A witness said the cyclist had his head down and was really moving. He hit the bus on the door side, hard enough to damage the door, and still fly 20ft. Not to make light of the death of this person, but what makes the cyclist always right?

It looks like a classic left-cross from the description so I'd say it's very highly likely the bus driver's fault entirely. For you:

http://www.weaselcircus.com/funnypics/chillpill.jpg

Was the cyclist familiar with the area?

Whether or not the cyclist was familiar with the area has nothing to do with who was at fault. I don't think the police would ask the driver of a car involved in an accident if they were familiar with the area.

Facts reported in article:
The bus driver was heading southbound. The bicyclist was heading northbound. The bus driver was making a left hand turn across the northbound lane.

Conclusion:
Therefore, the bicyclist had the right of way. The bus driver should have yielded to the bicyclist as he should have yielded to any vehicle traveling northbound.

Fact reported in article:
The bicyclist hit the door near the front of the bus

Conclusion:
This indicates that the bus pulled in front of the bicyclist at the last second. Had the bicyclist hit the rear of the bus we might conclude that the bicyclist should have seen the idiot driver crossing his path but he hit the front of the bus.



Too many of you are too quick to judge, and then you complain when no charges are filed. Rather than let my emotions take over, I'll ask the hard questions.

Please read your next statement carefully. You make a very strong assumption.



I'm sure the driver checked to make sure no cars were coming, and made his turn.


How on earth can you be "sure" what the driver did or saw?

And I notice that your statement says he made sure no cars were coming. You didn't mention bicycles or motorcycles which are traffic too. Obviously the driver did not make sure no traffic was coming. He pulled into the bicyclists path and the bicyclist hit the front of the bus. Any accident reconstruction expert would easily be able to conclude that the bus driver was at fault.



5 PM, how visible was this cyclist.


The cyclist would have been plenty visible at that time. Not an issue. This is certainly not a hard question?



He either did not notice the cyclist, or misjudged his speed.


You say the bus driver either (you used the words either so you yourself are making a judgement that what follows are the only two possibilities) 1) did not notice the cyclist or 2) misjugded his speed?

If 1) "did not notice that cyclist", that is certainly the bus driver's fault. If he didn't see the bicyclist he was not looking carefully enough before crossing the lane to make the turn.

If 2) "misjudged his speed", that is also the bus driver's fault. The bicyclist may having been riding hard, but I doubt (although cannot be certain based on the info) that he was going above the speed limit.



While my sympathy goes out to the family of Mr. Weaver, I'm not so quick to put all the blame on either party.


It doesn't sound like it. Based on information available, the bus driver is clearly at fault.

<snip>The tragedy was compounded by the fact that Miller had a history of accidents, including one just half an hour before the one involving Weaver.<snip>
Terrible!!! :mad:



<snip>Miller had had five accidents in the previous four and a half years.<snip>
Is this the standard for "professional" drivers?



<snip>He has not been charged in the Weaver death. <snip>
Hrrumph... business as usual.

Wow. Who did he kill? Because based on the sparse info posted in this thread, one might assume that a cyclist ran into the side of the bus. A witness said the cyclist had his head down and was really moving. He hit the bus on the door side, hard enough to damage the door, and still fly 20ft. Not to make light of the death of this person, but what makes the cyclist always right?



Before getting in to road bikes i was a mtb person. I took the hard trails ran that at speed and yes i had many crashes doing it (no injuries ever though i was knocked silly or out cold for a few secounds once read story)
I was taring up the trail with a friend of mine knew every inch of the trail right down to the very tree root i hit. I was doing about 16 17 miles per hour going down the strait section of trail like i had done 100s of times in the past and hit the stupid root at a bad angle. When i came around a few secounds latter i watched as my friend was heading towards pointing backward from my original direction of travel. I was a solid 20 to 30 feet from the root that got my butt.

I dont remember exactly what happened so the following is seound hand from him.

He told me that he seen me hit the root at a angle. When i did it spun my bike around in a tail whip like fasion and tossed me a full 20+ feet with ease. He was suprised at just how far it launched me as he was only doing 14 to 16 mph and catching up.

This cylist on the road bike who was killed could easly be tossed 20+ feet at evena measly 12 to 15 miles a hour. I read the artical it doesnt say if he was thrown and landed that far away or if he wass thrown and slid that far total. Remember i came to a rest at close to 30 feet from my bike and there was a visable few feet of slide marks on the ground.I was doing maybe 17 at best and made it 20 foot air distance. The crash was slow enough with little enough impact that my bike was undamaged. I slid 8 or 10 feet on uneven dirt with weeds, seedlings etc in my path.

Roads while they will truely screw you up are much slicker than a dirt path you will slide further and faster on a road than on a trail.

Thers a formula csi units use to determin how fast a car or body slid based on the distance it came to rest at.
If you want to do a test your self do this.
Get a milk jug fill it with 10 pounds of sand get going about 10 or 15 mph and then toss it with some force in front of you and see how far it slides.

Here is a picture of South Tryon Road by Remount Rd in charlotte. It is a major street with two lanes in each direction.

Near the intersection

Wow. Who did he kill? Because based on the sparse info posted in this thread, one might assume that a cyclist ran into the side of the bus.

Did you even read the thread? Clearly, the bus driver is guilty.

If the bus pulled in front of the cyclist and the cyclist could not stop in time, the cyclist may have hit the bus, but the bus driver is at fault.

My prediction:

The bus driver will ultimately be cited for 'failure to yield' or 'improper turn'. He'll lose his job and is unlikely to find a professional driving job for a long time (if ever). The bus company will get sued for damages and their insurance will pay a hefty sum in an out of court settlement to the family of the deceased cyclist.

If you're lucky, you might read about the driver getting cited for the crash. You'll read nothing about the resulting lawsuit.

The bus driver was probably thinking about how much trouble he was in for his last accident and failed to yield to on comming traffic. This has reminded me to get out the helmet mounted light this morning.

I'm sure the driver checked to make sure no cars were coming, and made his turn.

How on earth can you be "sure" what the driver did or saw?

And I notice that your statement says he made sure no cars were coming. You didn't mention bicycles or motorcycles which are traffic too. Obviously the driver did not make sure no traffic was coming. He pulled into the bicyclists path and the bicyclist hit the front of the bus. Any accident reconstruction expert would easily be able to conclude that the bus driver was at fault.

In this exchange, I think trekets is right, but Expatriate has an important point.
While the bus driver is almost certainly technically at fault, per oboeguy:



It looks like a classic left-cross from the description so I'd say it's very highly likely the bus driver's fault entirely.
Collisions like this should remind us not to rely on motorists seeing us. You have to stay alert in traffic, all the time.

Since no car crashed into the bus, it is apparent that there were no cars traveling along with the cyclist in the same direction at the same time. Therefore, the cyclist had no legal or practical obligation to keep to the right, especially considering he was approaching a bus depot entrance, and there was a bus coming from the other direction. Alarms should have been going off inside the cyclist's head for at least half a block. Now, it's possible that the cyclist was using the full lane and the bus driver still did not see him, though it's more likely that he was keeping to the right and not even paying attention. That, combined with a momentary lapse of attention on the part of a driver, spells disaster.

From one of the newspaper articles:

Dan Seeman, who works on Clanton and was headed to a nearby hardware store, said he saw the collision. The bicyclist was a big guy, he said, and had gotten his attention.

"One moment he was alive and riding by me," Seeman said, "and the next he was dead."

Seeman said the man on the bicycle was riding fast and seemed to have his head down. The bike hit the bus near the door.

The bus driver couldn't get his front door open, Seeman said, and exited from a back one. The driver checked on the bicyclist, told Seeman to call 911, then ran for help.

It opens many possibilities on BOTH sides. IF (Big if, a decent road bike position might look like head down) he had his head down then the rider may have ridden into the side of the bus when he had very adequate time to stop. Other side is he may have been going fast, the driver saw him and assumed he had plenty of time to complete the turn. One last thing, it is VERY rare to see riders really flying at the extreem right where they can get 'lost' in the parked cars. So this is one big point on the side that he should have been seen.

IF (Big if, a decent road bike position might look like head down) he had his head down then the rider may have ridden into the side of the bus when he had very adequate time to stop. Other side is he may have been going fast, the driver saw him and assumed he had plenty of time to complete the turn. One last thing, it is VERY rare to see riders really flying at the extreem right where they can get 'lost' in the parked cars. So this is one big point on the side that he should have been seen.
Good points, but none of this explains why the cyclist was not prepared (the crash is evidence that he was not) for the possibility that the bus driver would turn the oncoming bus left in front of the cyclist (either because the driver didn't see the cyclist or because he underestimated his speed), especially into a bus depot driveway. Even when properly positioned vehicularly "centerish" in the lane where motorists are more likely to be looking, a cyclist should always be prepared for a potential left hook, including mid-block. Same, by the way, goes for a motorcyclist.

Collisions like this should remind us not to rely on motorists seeing us. You have to stay alert in traffic, all the time.

Edit: Also, looking at the google image of the location posted above, it appears that there is no parking on this road. On this type of road, most cyclists, regardless of how fast they are riding and the lack of same-direction traffic, normally keep to the side, sadly (and in this case, perhaps tragically).

Good points, but none of this explains why the cyclist was not prepared (the crash is evidence that he was not) for the possibility that the bus driver would turn the oncoming bus left in front of the cyclist (either because the driver didn't see the cyclist or because he underestimated his speed), especially into a bus depot driveway. Even when properly positioned vehicularly "centerish" in the lane where motorists are more likely to be looking, a cyclist should always be prepared for a potential left hook, including mid-block. Same, by the way, goes for a motorcyclist.

Collisions like this should remind us not to rely on motorists seeing us. You have to stay alert in traffic, all the time.

Edit: Also, looking at the google image of the location posted above, it appears that there is no parking on this road. On this type of road, most cyclists, regardless of how fast they are riding and the lack of same-direction traffic, normally keep to the side, sadly (and in this case, perhaps tragically).

For once I'm with HH. I never trust the driver of an oncoming vehicle which is going slowly enough to make a turn at an intersection.

For once I'm with HH.
I think I may have underemphasized the importance of staying alert in traffic in the past, perhaps leaving the impression that I was suggesting trusting motorists more than I really intended.

I do believe in assuming that motorists truly don't want to hit us, but that doesn't mean we should assume they won't make mistakes (like not see us and turn in front of us). There is much we can do -- I believe much more than most cyclists realize -- to reduce the possibility of one of their mistakes causing them to hit us, but we cannot eliminate it altogether, of course, and so we cannot assume they will not make such mistakes, no matter how well we ride.

Stay alert in traffic, all the time.

Did you even read the thread? Clearly, the bus driver is guilty

You're being ironic, no?

Whether or not the cyclist was familiar with the area has nothing to do with who was at fault. I don't think the police would ask the driver of a car involved in an accident if they were familiar with the area.

Right. Because if he wasn't familiar with the area, he can be excused for not thinking that a bus would turn into the bus facility.

Facts reported in article:
The bus driver was heading southbound. The bicyclist was heading northbound. The bus driver was making a left hand turn across the northbound lane.

Conclusion:
Therefore, the bicyclist had the right of way. The bus driver should have yielded to the bicyclist as he should have yielded to any vehicle traveling northbound.

Fact reported in article:
The bicyclist hit the door near the front of the bus

Conclusion:
This indicates that the bus pulled in front of the bicyclist at the last second. Had the bicyclist hit the rear of the bus we might conclude that the bicyclist should have seen the idiot driver crossing his path but he hit the front of the bus.

Conclusion: The bus driver did not see the cyclist, or misjudged his speed. It's not conjecture. He either failed to see him, or could not tell how fast the cyclist was travelling. The only other option is that he saw him but turned anyway, which seems a bit unlikely. Not to drag HH in here to back me up, but as cyclists, we cannot assume that motorists can see us. You refuse to accept the fact that for whatever reason, the cyclist never saw a bus turning in front of him into a bus facility. That's rather biased.


Please read your next statement carefully. You make a very strong assumption.





How on earth can you be "sure" what the driver did or saw?

See above

And I notice that your statement says he made sure no cars were coming. You didn't mention bicycles or motorcycles which are traffic too. Obviously the driver did not make sure no traffic was coming. He pulled into the bicyclists path and the bicyclist hit the front of the bus. Any accident reconstruction expert would easily be able to conclude that the bus driver was at fault.


The cyclist would have been plenty visible at that time. Not an issue. This is certainly not a hard question?

How can you be so sure? He collided with a bus. You'd think a bus would be far more visible than a cyclist, yet they still collided. This is not like the last accident debated here, where the armored car and cyclist were travelling in the same direction. In this case, they were facing each other. One was a bus, which would have had to slowed to make the turn. The other, a cyclist, would have been able to stop in a very short distance. And yet they still collided. You seem able to explain that away much easier than me.



You say the bus driver either (you used the words either so you yourself are making a judgement that what follows are the only two possibilities) 1) did not notice the cyclist or 2) misjugded his speed?

If 1) "did not notice that cyclist", that is certainly the bus driver's fault. If he didn't see the bicyclist he was not looking carefully enough before crossing the lane to make the turn.

If 2) "misjudged his speed", that is also the bus driver's fault. The bicyclist may having been riding hard, but I doubt (although cannot be certain based on the info) that he was going above the speed limit.

I think I covered this already. Too many motorists look for other motor vehicles, to the exclusion of bicycles, motorcyclists, and pedestrians. That is a fact. And again, as cyclists we should be aware of this, and never assume that a motorist has seen us.



My responses are in red. Please note that I have tried to keep this a friendly debate, not an argument.

Not to drag HH in here to back me up, ...
Blood brothers!

Seriously, you're absolutely right. Holding the bus driver responsible for not seeing a cyclist while giving the cyclist a free pass even though he did no see a BUS is ridiculous.

Yes, yes, I know technically/legally the cyclist had the ROW, and so it was the bus driver's legal responsibility to see and not hit the cyclist, but reality happens, and we cyclists are especially vulnerable. We need to be alert at all times. With all due respect, slamming into the side of a bus at top speed (fast enough to be fatal) is bordering on Darwin Award behavior.

None of us were there, so none of us knows what happened. If it's a two lane road, it's possible that the bus pulled in front of him so fast when it turned that he just slammed into it. Or maybe the cyclist wasn't looking ahead at that moment. None of us were there.

Blood brothers!

Seriously, you're absolutely right. Holding the bus driver responsible for not seeing a cyclist while giving the cyclist a free pass even though he did no see a BUS is ridiculous.

Yes, yes, I know technically/legally the cyclist had the ROW, and so it was the bus driver's legal responsibility to see and not hit the cyclist, but reality happens, and we cyclists are especially vulnerable. We need to be alert at all times. With all due respect, slamming into the side of a bus at top speed (fast enough to be fatal) is bordering on Darwin Award behavior.

This we can agree on. The cyclist certainly had the right of way, no argument there. But we'll never know where his attention was focused.

Blue - unless Sandra Bullock was driving that bus, I don't think it made a high speed turn.

Suppose the lane is 10 feet wide, and the bus is travelling south at something like 15-20 MPH because the driver is preparing to make a turn. The driver, not seeing the cyclist, and seeing no cars coming, crosses the lane and turns into the drive. At 15-20 MPH, how quickly does the bus cross a 10 foot lane? Pretty damn quick is my guess.

We're all entitled to guess. But we don't know which lane the cyclist was in so we don't know the actual point of impact. If you want to assume that the cyclist was in the lane closest to the kerb, I have to ask again, why didn't he see the bus as it crossed the left lane into his path?

[edit] Barring extenuating circumstances not mentioned so far, I doubt that any charges will be filed.

We're all entitled to guess. But we don't know which lane the cyclist was in so we don't know the actual point of impact. If you want to assume that the cyclist was in the lane closest to the kerb, I have to ask again, why didn't he see the bus as it crossed the left lane into his path?

[edit] Barring extenuating circumstances not mentioned so far, I doubt that any charges will be filed.I was assuming from the report that it was a 2 lane road. After looking at a Google map, it appears to be a 4 lane road, so the bus would have had to cross 2 lanes to hit the cyclist. Still, 30 feet at 15-20 MPH goes by pretty quickly. The report said the cyclist had his head down and was moving fast, so if he saw it at all, it was too late to do anything (obviously).

Criminal charges or no, with the number of accidents this bus driver has had, I predict a lawsuit against the transit agency.

Criminal charges or no, with the number of accidents this bus driver has had, I predict a lawsuit against the transit agency.

Once again, I'm going to need more information. Every time that guy damaged property or damaged the bus, he had to file an accident report. I'd be curious to know what kinds of accidents he's had. Even if he had a (very bad) habit of clipping planters or parked cars with the tail end of the bus, that does not mean he was at fault for this loss.

For those following this story, I just saw this on TV tonight.

Former CATS driver will face death by vehicle charges

04:38 PM EST on Wednesday, December 21, 2005
BY TIFFANI HELBERG / 6NEWS

6NEWS

Charges were filed Wednesday against a former CATS bus driver who hit and killed a Charlotte bicyclist in October. Jerry Miller was fired after that incident and now 6NEWS has learned what charges he will face.

The lead Charlotte-Mecklenburg HITS officer on the case, Charlie Brown, went to the magistrate Wednesday around noon Wednesday and a criminal summons for Miller was issued.

Brown said he wrapped up his case around a month ago and handed it off to the District Attorney (DA) to decide what charges if any should be filed.

Brown told 6NEWS that there was never any question that they would charge the driver but they wanted to make sure they had all of their ducks in a row first.

Just days ago the DA decided to press charges against Miller.

Brown told 6NEWS Miller will be charged with misdemeanor death by vehicle.

That accident took the life of Todd Weaver, 36. Miller's bus struck and killed Weaver on Tryon Street as the bus was turning into the depot. Authorities said it was Miller's second accident that day, the first accident having happened less than 30 minutes beforehand.

Authorities also said Miller had 5 accidents over the span of his career.

Miller was fired from his job after the accident that resulted in Weaver's death, but he has since appealed that decision.

6NEWS was told that since Miller has no prior convictions he probably would not go to jail. However, he could lose his license for 1-2 years if convicted.

Silence from the motorist apologists. :rolleyes:



For those following this story, I just saw this on TV tonight.

Former CATS driver will face death by vehicle charges

04:38 PM EST on Wednesday, December 21, 2005
BY TIFFANI HELBERG / 6NEWS

6NEWS

Charges were filed Wednesday against a former CATS bus driver who hit and killed a Charlotte bicyclist in October. Jerry Miller was fired after that incident and now 6NEWS has learned what charges he will face.

The lead Charlotte-Mecklenburg HITS officer on the case, Charlie Brown, went to the magistrate Wednesday around noon Wednesday and a criminal summons for Miller was issued.

Brown said he wrapped up his case around a month ago and handed it off to the District Attorney (DA) to decide what charges if any should be filed.

Brown told 6NEWS that there was never any question that they would charge the driver but they wanted to make sure they had all of their ducks in a row first.

Just days ago the DA decided to press charges against Miller.

Brown told 6NEWS Miller will be charged with misdemeanor death by vehicle.

That accident took the life of Todd Weaver, 36. Miller's bus struck and killed Weaver on Tryon Street as the bus was turning into the depot. Authorities said it was Miller's second accident that day, the first accident having happened less than 30 minutes beforehand.

Authorities also said Miller had 5 accidents over the span of his career.

Miller was fired from his job after the accident that resulted in Weaver's death, but he has since appealed that decision.

6NEWS was told that since Miller has no prior convictions he probably would not go to jail. However, he could lose his license for 1-2 years if convicted.

No silence here. They've got a case against him, now let's see how well they can argue it (nothing is ever really proven in court :D ) in front of the judge. Hopefully, someone will update us of the outcome and sentencing.

If the bus turned left in front of a car, and the driver of the car died, it would still be the bus driver's fault, even if the driver did for a moment look down and take their eyes off the road. The cyclist in this case may have been able to take evasive maneuvers and survive, but that doesn't excuse the bus driver.

Please report these things when they happen. I had a bus cut me off dangerously close a few months ago, and I noted the bus #, the time of day, and the location. I called the city to file a report as soon as I got to work. You need to build a case against people like that. It might not get them off the road, but then again, it might. At the very least, it might add heat to the bus company and force them to tighten their safety policies.

What makes you think I was talking about you? :D Just joking.

As drivers and cyclists, I'm sure we all would like to see bad drivers off the road.


No silence here. They've got a case against him, now let's see how well they can argue it (nothing is ever really proven in court :D ) in front of the judge. Hopefully, someone will update us of the outcome and sentencing.

What makes you think I was talking about you? :D Just joking.

As drivers and cyclists, I'm sure we all would like to see bad drivers off the road.

I didn't think you were referring to me, but I had to respond. While I agree that this guy has no business driving a bus, I still want to see what facts the DA presents, and how this turns out.

Regardless of the outcome, I don't see how this could have happened. I don't want to reopen the debate, but it's not like the bus ran him down from behind. How could a cyclist be totally unaware of a bus? Guess we'll have to hear at least one side of the story, and go from there.

I think I may have underemphasized the importance of staying alert in traffic in the past, perhaps leaving the impression that I was suggesting trusting motorists more than I really intended.

I do believe in assuming that motorists truly don't want to hit us, but that doesn't mean we should assume they won't make mistakes (like not see us and turn in front of us). There is much we can do -- I believe much more than most cyclists realize -- to reduce the possibility of one of their mistakes causing them to hit us, but we cannot eliminate it altogether, of course, and so we cannot assume they will not make such mistakes, no matter how well we ride.

Stay alert in traffic, all the time.

I agree.

Just because you have the right of way, don't believe that you are immune from crashes, and if you _have_ to put your head down, keep your eyes up, perhaps at least you can dump it before running into the bus.

My condolences to the family ... a tragic event.

jw

If the bus turned left in front of a car, and the driver of the car died, it would still be the bus driver's fault, even if the driver did for a moment look down and take their eyes off the road. The cyclist in this case may have been able to take evasive maneuvers and survive, but that doesn't excuse the bus driver.

Please report these things when they happen. I had a bus cut me off dangerously close a few months ago, and I noted the bus #, the time of day, and the location. I called the city to file a report as soon as I got to work. You need to build a case against people like that. It might not get them off the road, but then again, it might. At the very least, it might add heat to the bus company and force them to tighten their safety policies.

WRONG. At least in Californai where it says you are from. California and mos tother states are goverened by the "last clear chance" principle. That means the vehicle operator with the last cleear chance to avoid the accident is legally at fault. This is why the driver behind is usually found to be at fault. With a bus it would seem likely the bike rider would have had time to stop, far from certain, but lacking other evidence that is what I would conclude.

(Come to think of it wasn't there other evidence in this case, witnesses that said the rider had his head down and just ran into the bus?)

Not to excuse the bus driver, but a cyclist must always be TOTALY AWARE of his surrounding.

This is one of the problems with the diamond frame bike (ass hatchet). The rider is in a head first, head down riding position.

On the other hand, recumbent riders are in a feet first, heads up riding position, and always has a clear view ahead, even while riding in the most aero position.

In a fall or crash, the initial impact of a diamond frame bike most commonly will be to the head or shoulders. On a recumbent, the rider most often lands on his butt, with the legs in front.

http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/racing2004/SanJose/NathanGraffdad_sm.jpg



I didn't think you were referring to me, but I had to respond. While I agree that this guy has no business driving a bus, I still want to see what facts the DA presents, and how this turns out.

Regardless of the outcome, I don't see how this could have happened. I don't want to reopen the debate, but it's not like the bus ran him down from behind. How could a cyclist be totally unaware of a bus? Guess we'll have to hear at least one side of the story, and go from there.

I don't think that law is correct for turning accidents. I have known many people getting into accidents that were deemed the persons turnings fault. In LA this type of accident usually occurs when there is 2-3 lanes of traffic in both directions and the first 2 inside lanes are slower and a car shoots into a turn not taking into account that the 3rd lane is going faster.

This type of accident is usually combined with the fact that the said idiots are also turning where they shouldn't be to cross opposing traffic. People need to reread their handbooks about what each type of line means. I frequently let people know they are being stupid about crossing these lines, and usually also about no turning 4-7, I am occasionally not driving during the morning hours to yell then. I frequently, tell motorist when they have lighting problems, usually when I am on the bike and see them at a light as I approach.

Most people would see it as the bus turned without enough room for hs bus to exit the road cutting off the cyclist.

If laws allow people to shoot across oncoming traffic as they wish when you legally have the right of way making you the party responsible for "last clear chance" means you will all be posting about my death eventually. In my 1 mile course that I do 20-30 miles on daily, I frequently have people doing rolling stops through the stop signs interfering with my right of way causing me to stop uber quickly. I let them know who has the right of way, but oneday they will get me. Luckily I start looking both ways before the intersection expecting people to roll through. Riding at night makes these jerks easier to see approaching.

jasongilbert, you should see the buses here heading to the bus depot in West hollywood. I frequently see them shooting past and turning at higher than car speeds for the area.

I am not condoning either parties actions in this case. I wouldn't trust any public road near my house for head down riding. I ride and drive with every intention of being killed. I haven't had an accident in 15 years of living in my area in a car. I have learned from close calls the bike laws as well as possible and have been lucky there too.

After thinking about this, does anyone know of anyone using a handlebar mounted mirror so that when they are head down can see somthing forward of them. A lot of mounts make it possible, so just an idea. A while back two cyclist were hurt and I remember one was killed maybe both from a head on collision with one another.

The last clear chance is the law. Period.

But that does NOT mean that the car that hit the other is at fault. Turn in front of someone and they brake hard and hit you, you lose. Turn in front of someone and they do not brake at all it becomes a court case and witnesses/ lawyers come into play. A lot there is what can be proved. Big question on this would be did the second car not brake because they were not paying any attention or because there was no time to brake after first seeing the car cutting across traffic. (That is often teh case with 2 or 3 lanes of traffic).


Getting back to the bus vrs. bike accident. The bike is wrong extreme is that the bus made the turn, slowed or stopped at the driveway and the guy on the bike ran into a stationary bus with plenty of warning. The bus at fault extreme is the bus made a turn with no care and the bike ran into the entry door after, after trying to stop and doing a good enough job to at least keep from being run over.

Either and many things in between are possible.

Speaking as someone who's been left-crossed, I can remark that there is basically no time to do anything. If you're closing with a vehicle at combined closing speeds of 30-35mph and it turns across your path unexpectedly, then the chips fall where they may. In my case I'd guess I had maybe 1/4 second of awareness that the collision was about to occur, and then *POW!*

Durn. I live right beside Charlotte. I know where South Tryon is. It in most places it is a pretty busy road with large intersections. I was actually in a car wreck a few years back on Tryon.

You are all arguing about who is at fault. It doesn't matter. A man is dead.

Be careful out there.

WRONG. At least in Californai where it says you are from. California and mos tother states are goverened by the "last clear chance" principle. That means the vehicle operator with the last cleear chance to avoid the accident is legally at fault. This is why the driver behind is usually found to be at fault. With a bus it would seem likely the bike rider would have had time to stop, far from certain, but lacking other evidence that is what I would conclude.

(Come to think of it wasn't there other evidence in this case, witnesses that said the rider had his head down and just ran into the bus?)

"last clear chance" isn't a law, it's a liability defense that would (could) be argued in front of a trier of fact. And just because someone has a last clear chance to avoid a collision doesn't totally absolve the other driver of liability.

In a case where a driver fails to yield to another vehicle (in this case a bicycle) while making a left turn, the last clear chance argument, to be successful, would have to show that the cyclist saw the improper turn, had a chance to avoid the accident, and failed to do so. And even if that were able to be shown, the majority of the negligence would in all likelyhood still be on the person making the illegal turn (the "but for" priciple... but for the illegal turn, the accident would not have happened). In this particular case, I think the defense would have a heck of a hard time pinning the last clear chance on a dead bicyclist. Throw the bus driver's driving record and the fact that he had just been in another accident 30 minutes prior into the mix and the defense is in a very bad spot. I predict this claim will settle out of court for a very high amount.

And then depending on the comparative negligence laws of the state where the accident happened, the damage award may or may not be reduced anyway, so it may be a moot point.