Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - the secrets of brakeless and toe cages

I seem to split my time between sidi/spd and normalshoe/toecage. I love the simplicity of jumping off my bike, and having normal shoes on. But my full stroke definitely fells weaker, the back stroke is non existent, and the up stroke is also less effective than with clipless. On the flip side of that, it seems a little harder to skid the wheel with the cages.
Yet it seems more people opt for cages, even with brakeless bikes, and regardless of the SF hills. Is there something I'm missing, or is it just a trade-off that people make?

Some people complain of popping out of clipless pedals, most I think just want to be able to wear normal shoes though. I imagine once you are accustomed to riding that way you can be as (or almost as) effective in stopping and whatnot as with clipless.

maybe...tighter straps...

I had to run mine dangerously tight. I was also afraid of clipping out, but it has never happened with ATAC's. I wear a MTB shoe that does not click when I walk, and its a decent looking sneaker and I can work in it all day. I could care less if I was sporting the newest vintage vans, but I think its a fashion choice usually. Or a cost thing, atacs and shoes came to about $110, where as clips and shoes is usually some sort of free. In addition I only have one pair of shoes that would even fit into my clips so shoe choice was not a factor.

Milo

…just put down the money for double straps, then your foot will not move.

I seem to split my time between sidi/spd and normalshoe/toecage. I love the simplicity of jumping off my bike, and having normal shoes on. But my full stroke definitely fells weaker, the back stroke is non existent, and the up stroke is also less effective than with clipless. On the flip side of that, it seems a little harder to skid the wheel with the cages.
Yet it seems more people opt for cages, even with brakeless bikes, and regardless of the SF hills. Is there something I'm missing, or is it just a trade-off that people make?

When riding with no handbrakes, there will be moments when you will need to pitch your bike sideways. Chances are you will twist your foot doing so. If you run straps and cages it is no bike deal. If you run clipless you will unclip because that is what they are designed to do. As Travsi said, run doublestraps. Either buy two doubles or buy four singles and drill two holes in each cage and zip tie the second strap on there so it sits just a little lower that the first one.

The double strap sounds like a good idea. But even with double straps tightened like a virgin, seems like you just cant get the same back stroke as clipless. With clipless I tend to pull myself up hills, where as with clips I'm relying on the push down to get up those same hills (which isnt as affective for me, and seems to stress my knees). Also I feel like you're defeating the practical benefits of the cages, if you're clamped so tight you cant get out. Oh and the only time I ever pop out of clipless is when tweaking too much on skids, but I just pretend like im going for a one foot skid ;) (I always pop back in as soon as the pedal comes back around).
But the more I ride the cages, the less I'm missing the fancy silly shoes ;) I'm sure theyll still get used for some rides, but when commuting, its nice to make the instant transition from Cyclist to Walker.

I much prefer clipless, and ride them exclusively. I've never had an issue with popping out of my eggbeaters, and I use a mountain shoe that looks exactly like a skate shoe. They're comfortable enough to walk in for long periods.

I could never switch to clips and straps.

more like whats up with clip/strap riders and beat up vans m i ryt?!

i switched from clipless to clips/straps not too long ago, and yeah, i do miss the pure connectivity and control and pedal strokes, but since its my commuting bike, it just makes more sense for me to be able to wear normal shoes and sacrifice that extra efficiency

...plus it looks better :/

i didn't realize beat up vans were such the norm... man, now i feel like a sheep!

I had to run mine dangerously tight. I was also afraid of clipping out, but it has never happened with ATAC's. I wear a MTB shoe that does not click when I walk, and its a decent looking sneaker and I can work in it all day. I could care less if I was sporting the newest vintage vans, but I think its a fashion choice usually. Or a cost thing, atacs and shoes came to about $110, where as clips and shoes is usually some sort of free. In addition I only have one pair of shoes that would even fit into my clips so shoe choice was not a factor.

Milo

I will echo every word said above... I have never unclipped without wanting to from my ATACs and wear a cannondale mountain shoe that doesn't click (time cleats click less i have found than spd) and they look snazzy look snazzy... I wear them all day long

Practice! Christophe clips with Binda straps . the way to go!

S/F,
CEYA!

i didn't realize beat up vans were such the norm... man, now i feel like a sheep!

thats why i rock the beat up one stars: indestructables!

I much prefer clipless, and ride them exclusively. I've never had an issue with popping out of my eggbeaters, and I use a mountain shoe that looks exactly like a skate shoe. They're comfortable enough to walk in for long periods.

I could never switch to clips and straps.

what kind of shoes do you have? i'd definitely be interested in a non-bike-shoe-looking shoe. but some of the casual/touring shoes are fugly. some. not all.

queerpunk ...

661 and a few other companies make skate shoe-esque clipless shoes. if you poke around on jensonusa or other cycling web stores, you can find a decent pair. i will probably pickup a pair of the 661's if i ever go clipless fulltime on my fixie but for now, i like the cages.

what kind of shoes do you have? i'd definitely be interested in a non-bike-shoe-looking shoe. but some of the casual/touring shoes are fugly. some. not all.

A ride a pair of old Duegi Touring shoes I found for 9.99 on Nashbar a while back.
They are wonderful and wish I could buy more. Very hard stiff sole and a sleek profile.
Carnac still makes some very fine Touring shoes like this one: http://www.rainbowinternet.net/shops/cyclingbargains/catalogue/category54/product885
Pricey but probably worth it.

It seems that a lot of riders in San Francisco are into trick riding on their track bikes. That (and fashion?) is probably a big part of the OP's observation.

And I'd agree with 46x17's comment about popping out when pitching the bike sideways if clipless = SPD only, but ATACs, for me, make his statement false.

I know I am going to hear the opposite but the one week I tried clipless (Eggbeaters with Izumi shoes) I felt so disconnected from my bicycle it was lonely. I admit, I did feel like I was a pedalling machine and there is better power transfer on clipless compared to straps and vans shoes. But, on the other hand, I could not feel my bicycle. Kind of felt like I was dancing with robot. If that makes sense.

No Tengo Coche, what IS up man? You go to SF and then stay?


That's hot. I miss SF badly. Nothing much to miss here other than weather...

Hey, do you find, between regular shoes and overpiced cycling shoes any difference?

My biggest complaint is the stiffness that I don't get in regular shoes... Do you see that?

How is SF? Been down to Hellyer yet?

Did you go to City Light Books?

Cruise Polk and watch the "drag races"..

Golden Gate park at 2 am... lost of interesting smells and sights there.

Oh man, to be back in SF......

What's new!!

Clipless pull out if you put enough pressure on them, it only takes one pull out while flying down a *real* hill towards a busy intersection to realize that if you ride without handbrakes you better be damn sure your feet aren't going to pop off of your pedals. That's why I ride straps. If I lived somewhere without hills or had a bike that would take a brake I'd probably ride clipless, for the power transfer.

at the world's this year as you know i was in charge of sprints and alot of guys either couldn't clip in or pulled out in the first 25 meters or later at the 300meter mark.

i tried clipless with the old campy 440 grams pedal and couldn't get out so i went back to double straps.

S/F<
CEYA!

at the world's this year as you know i was in charge of sprints and alot of guys either couldn't clip in or pulled out in the first 25 meters or later at the 300meter mark.

i tried clipless with the old campy 440 grams pedal and couldn't get out so i went back to double straps.

S/F<
CEYA!

I was told it was a "safety feature" of clipless pedals to release under very high pull, so that riders disengage from their bikes in a crash.

I was told it was a "safety feature" of clipless pedals to release under very high pull, so that riders disengage from their bikes in a crash.


YEAH , I remember the crash and can't get out syndrome. that is correct what you say but you can put them in lock so only if you fall they ONLY come out.

S/F,
CEYA!

QueerPunk:

I wear 661 Launch shoes. I just checked their website, and they have some new styles for 06. They look pretty good.

Here's the "Session"
http://sixsixone.com/images/store/product/6685-00.jpg

And here's the "Launch", which look A LOT different than mine. I like them.
http://sixsixone.com/images/store/product/6678-00.jpg

There's also the new "Dually".
http://sixsixone.com/images/store/product/6681-00.jpg

What about this shoe, Looks comfy. Probably what I'm going to buy for my next shoe. Looks less like a mtb shoe than a lot of ohers that I've seen

no tengo-

i run two sets of straps on my fixies and yeah, there is a little bit of power lost due to not being able to pull back, but you learn to sort of do a push down/pullback/pullup thing so your foot doesn't come out. i tried clipless for a while and i was really happy with them for the most part. i had a lot of frustration with trying to get clipped in while riding with friends, and i popped out once on a skid while turning left through a busy intersection. that was kind of sketchy. for now, i save the clipless for my road or mountain bikes.

for the hills, if you stand going up, you can use your body weight to push the pedals around, rather than putting more stress on your knees.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile_moreimages.cfm?category=&subcategory=&sku=13223&brand=

more like whats up with clip/strap riders and beat up vans m i ryt?!What language is this written in?

I keep going back and forth between clipless SPDs and my cheap plastic clips. The convenience of just rolling up my pants and hopping on the bike has had me using the clips much more than the clipless. It's too much of a hassle to change shoes when I'm getting ready to go out on my bike, especially if I'm running some quick errands.

I think I need to get some real clips.

I run normal shoes, steel clips, and nice single straps.

I'm not the kind of rider that needs to worry too much about harnessing the raw fury of his massive leg power, so I do just fine.

I run normal shoes, steel clips, and nice single straps.

I'm not the kind of rider that needs to worry too much about harnessing the raw fury of his massive leg power, so I do just fine.


how does that work on hills for you? i just switched to clips/double straps on one of my bikes, and i get the loss of power/insecure feeling too.

how does that work on hills for you? i just switched to clips/double straps on one of my bikes, and i get the loss of power/insecure feeling too.

No complaints, really. I'm not going to win any races, but I get up the hills just fine. I run gears in the low to mid sixties, though.

There are real options though if you want an external cleat though if you are going to be doing some brakeless zooming around. The first that comes to mind (and expensive option) is using the new speedplay track pedals and shoes, I'm guessing they are very difficult to pull out of.

Also, one you can get for a good deal if you search hard (but if people know what they have it ain't gonna be cheap, probably 100 bucks or so for the pedals) is the shimano dura ace look compatible pedals. I'm not sure how many years they were made out of but that have been a traditional favorite of sprinters (I'm talking about pros, this is what I've been told) and are very durable. These pedals are really really difficult to pull out of if you have cleats that aren't very worn down (the worst part about the whole look deal in my opinion, cleat wear).

I'm running Axo Blackballs MTB shoes with Shimano 535 pedals. The cleat in the Blackballs are recessed so I don't get the annoying road shoe tap dancing sound. I haven't yet had a problem with accidentally clipping out during harrowing times. I tried clips and straps a while back but felt a lack of power transfer. Being so used to riding my singlespeed mtb and mashing hard on the climbs can do that to you. I also didn't like having to tighten the straps super tight in order to feel connected to the pedals. I was scared I'd be unable to pull out before falling over. I missed the stiffness of my mtb shoes as well. I didn't feel comfortable sat all in my (dare I say) Pumas as they felt so flimsy on the pedals. I was only using one strap too so I may need to try double straps before I go back to clips and straps.