Foo - Firearms

Who here believes that all firearms should be illegal? Who believes in their firearms, and loves having them around? I personally think that everyone who has an opnion onw way or the other about them, should attend a firearms safety class, and learn more about the things they hate/love.

I don't own a firearm, but I used to be in support of firearm ownership. But the older I get, the more my opinion is starting to change. In general, though, guns in the hands of citizens do more harm than good. Is this a reason to ban firearms? I don't know. But since there are so many guns already in the hands of citizens, it's a moot point.

hmm...i dont feel that guns in the hands of citiznes does more harm then good at all. and waht is that based of off.

P&R please before it's too late.

P&r?

Politics & Religon... as firearms are very political, and carry a mnear religous ferver with them no matter which side of the fence your on.

I'd be very mad if anyone tried to take away one of the few heirlooms that are still remaining in my family (great grandfather's gun collection). Even though I never plan to hunt with them I'm going to take a gun safety class.

hmm...i dont feel that guns in the hands of citiznes does more harm then good at all. and waht is that based of off.I'm not going to quote any studies - just an opinion based on my own experience and those of people I know. I have personally known 3 people who have been shot with a gun - one guy was shot by a jealous ex boyfriend of a girl he was dating, one was shot in a robbery attempt and one was shot in a hunting accident. And I read stories daily about people using guns to commit violent crimes. I rarely hear of a firearm that was used by a citizen for good (e.g. to protect themselves or their property). I'm sure it happens, but I would guess it happens with far less frequency than situations where guns were used to rob, threaten or murder. So my guess is that the net effect of allowing citizens to own guns is negative. No need to show me any studies, though. You're not changing my opinion and I'm not changing yours.

But as I said before, it's a moot point. Too late to change anything - too many guns out there already. . .

i mean i agree that it is a moot point, however i do feel that statistics can be made to show anything that someone desires, therefore i do not feel these are accurate. And with anyhting in the world, there will always bu dumb people doing dumb things. There are some people who have kids and can no way support them , but should they not be allowed to have them? and people drive cars all the time, and casue accidents but should they not be allowed to drive?

i mean i agree that it is a moot point, however i do feel that statistics can be made to show anything that someone desires, therefore i do not feel these are accurate. And with anyhting in the world, there will always bu dumb people doing dumb things. There are some people who have kids and can no way support them , but should they not be allowed to have them? and people drive cars all the time, and casue accidents but should they not be allowed to drive?Neither babies nor automobiles were built for the specific purpose of harming or killing a living being. Your arguements are quite weak. Go to the NRA website if you want to argue - I'm sure they'll give you the "ammo" (pun intended) you need to support your opinion.

Hang on one second though...every fiirearm i own has never been used to kill anything...what about people who enjoy shooting at targets...example:Olympic sports? or jsut regular old joe's out in the country or at the pistol range shooting there firearms?

Hang on one second though...every fiirearm i own has never been used to kill anything...what about people who enjoy shooting at targets...example:Olympic sports? or jsut regular old joe's out in the country or at the pistol range shooting there firearms?If there was a way to ensure that guns could be used only for target practice, then fine, I think no one would have a problem with that. But when you weigh the good and the bad of allowing gun ownership, I think the scales really show it's bad. Accidental gun deaths, guns used in homicides, guns used in the commission of a felony, versus people's right to shoot at targets. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

And guns that shoot bullets with gunpowder and metal points were made for killing things. It can be used for target practice, but it was made to kill.

What about crossbows? Knives? Martial arts? Where does it end? There will always be a way to kill another person, and at this point those that want guns will always be able to find them somehow. Restricting gun sales would only keep them from the honest in the US.

Do a search, the quintessential forum firearm thread just fell of the bottom of the screen last week. IIRC, "Do you carry a gun" is the Title.

Yes, there are several older threads on the subject. Most of them are not in Politics & Religion, so I am not moving this one either as of now.

--Juha, a Forum Mod

It amazes me the people in society who feel they have the right to criticize what type of cars people driver, whether they smoker, their sexual preferences, colour of skin etc. but can justify themselves owning dangerous weapons :eek:

I am not a gun owner, but do believe in the RIGHT to bear arms. Even though I am not a gun owner, I do have strong opinions on it and you are right AtlPirate...I should go and take classes on it.

The bottom line is if the right of citizens to bear arms is removed, then what would happen if the goverment started taking more and more control? What if one day we (the people) decided our goverment had got out of control and was not working for us? How would we overthrow and goverment to start again? We'd have nothing to fight with against a power that may have the army behind it.

The American Forefathers put that right into the constitution (via Bill of Rights) for that very reason. Can any of you say you trust your goverment enough to never be a threat?

It amazes me the people in society who feel they have the right to criticize what type of cars people driver, whether they smoker, their sexual preferences, colour of skin etc. but can justify themselves owning dangerous weapons :eek:


WTF? No one has the right to make a decission, any decission for another person unless said person is deemed mentally incompotent.

If you want to smoke, fine smoke.
If you want to love people of the same sex, fine do so.
If you want to own a gun, buy one.
If you want to carry a gun, get the required permit.

If y'all don't like the chioces I make, stay the hell away from me.
If I don't like the choices you make, guess what... I'm gonna stay the hell away from you.

'Nuff said!

When you say that they shoot metal things made for killing....what about every other kind of projectile in the world? Well planes are used for killing should we not fly? cars and turcks as well? not drive maybe? Dogs were bred for killing, now we should get rid of our dogs as well? you wanting to take something away you know nothing about makes no sense...go take a class learn that guns are not evil, learn that it is anther hobby like cycling.

and im sure that everyone ehre will hate this point, but what happens when someone breaks into your home while you and your familiy are sleeping? you call the police, but jsut because you call does not mean that they jsut magically appear....they will on average take at least 3-4min to get there, and taht is a good response time...now sit there at your computer for 3-4min and notice how much death and destruction can be caused in that time. that is a lot of time for soemthign terrible to happen to either you or your familiy.

WTF? No one has the right to make a decission, any decission for another person unless said person is deemed mentally incompotent.

If you want to smoke, fine smoke.
If you want to love people of the same sex, fine do so.
If you want to own a gun, buy one.
If you want to carry a gun, get the required permit.

If y'all don't like the chioces I make, stay the hell away from me.
If I don't like the choices you make, guess what... I'm gonna stay the hell away from you.

'Nuff said!

Not sure but I think you've misread my post?
What I'm saying is don't judge me for personel choices (SUV ownership, nationality etc.) which harm no one but feel you have the right to carry a dangerous device designed to kill!

Call me paranoid but I honestly believe that if you let the government take your guns away then you will have surrendered all sovereignty to the government. Case in point Iraq; look how heavily armed there citizenry was and look at how good of a fight they are putting up against there occupiers. Unfortunately it’s guns that defend a nation, a state, a home, a citizen. If there were no guns then the jealous husband would kill his wife’s boyfriend with a baseball bat. Ban all baseball!!!

Not sure but I think you've misread my post?
What I'm saying is don't judge me for personel choices (SUV ownership, nationality etc.) which harm no one but feel you have the right to carry a dangerous device designed to kill!

That maybe so, I just gleaned what I was able from the incomprehensible. :o

Sorry, nationality is NOT a personal choice. Who is judging you?

We are entirely within our rights to form opinions of others. If I want to believe that all people who drive Escalade's and Tahoe's suffer from a basic lack of self worth and insecurity. It's my right. Where my right ends is coming up to you, ang getting in your face about what you drive.

No one yet, criminal or innocent, has been harmed by the 9mm that sits in my purse. Do you carry insurance on that (compensating ;) ) SUV you drive? I'd imagine you do. I too carry insurance on something a bit more precious... my life. Thing is, this policy pays out while I'm still alive, not once I'm dead.

Call me paranoid but I honestly believe that if you let the government take your guns away then you will have surrendered all sovereignty to the government. Case in point Iraq; look how heavily armed there citizenry was and look at how good of a fight they are putting up against there occupiers. Unfortunately it’s guns that defend a nation, a state, a home, a citizen. If there were no guns then the jealous husband would kill his wife’s boyfriend with a baseball bat. Ban all baseball!!!


Yeah! Then we can ban all sticks, butter knives, rocks, string and plastic bags as well! I'm with with you 110% bro!

No one yet, criminal or innocent, has been harmed by the 9mm that sits in my purse. Do you carry insurance on that (compensating ;) ) SUV you drive? I'd imagine you do. I too carry insurance on something a bit more precious... my life. Thing is, this policy pays out while I'm still alive, not once I'm dead.

No one yet has been harmed by my compensating battered up 1964 Land Rover (which incidently can run on LPG.
My SUV (known as a 4x4 when I bought it :rolleyes: ) was designed and bought with the intensions of driving over rough terrain. What was your gun designed or bought for? ;)
As I've said I'm not judging people for owning a gun but on people judging me for owning a 4x4 whilst feeling they have the right to own a gun. What's the difference?

I believe most firearms should be legal to purchase/own. I my self own a few and I use them for hunting, target shooting and home protection. I also collect military and old western rifles (and a few pistols as well).

The reason most people I speak with give for making ownership of rifles and/or pistols illegal is usually something like, "There is no need to own a gun and why would you want every wacko to be able to own one?" Well, from all of the reading and studying I have done I find that the majority of owners who legally purchased a firearm (there are a few exception but not many) are not the ones who are shooting other people or committing crimes. Around my area the shootings that occur are by felons/gang members who would have a gun even if they were illegal to own.

If you could be absolutely positive that not one thief, ******, child molester, gang member, etc. etc. etc. would not be caring a gun then I would have no need to carry mine. I would still want to have my hunting rifles/pistols because that is how I get a lot of meat for my family to eat. Yeah we could just get it from the store but fresh venison or bear taste much better and you do not have to pay extra to buy meat that was raised organically.

When I used to do some work in the ghetto or poorer areas that were gang infested I did not feel my life was safe so I always had “protection” on me. I did, still do, along with my military training get the proper civilian training (much different then what you learn in the military) and permits to carry and I do believe that every owner of any type of handgun should be required to go through a safety and self defense course that has live fire training as well before they can purchase a handgun. For a rifle they should at least go through a safety course w/live fire training.

By the way, did any one catch the debate between Wayne LaPierre (Executive VP of the NRA) and Andrew Butler (One of the leaders of PETA)? Just wondering how it went.

DBD:beer:

All i have to say to all in here who oppose firearms, and believe that they hodl no place in society is go take a safety class, and then think about that one time in your life when you are goign to need the police to come protect you....what happens if they are to late?

I live in Canada. Guns are not nearly so big a deal here. Many many people own rifles, especially outside of major metopolitan areas. Gun crime nationally is relatively low. In Ontario, there is a growing problem of handguns smuggled in from the US. I favour extreme penalites for carrying a hand gun.

I ought to point out that my father was murdered with a firearm (his own) when I was very young, so I was raised in a very anti-gun environment.

hmm i see your point konageezer, my mother has hated guns her entire life, and has always tried to convince me to not own them. However i think she has changed her mine since i have gotten back from the middle east with the Army, she realizes firearms are what kept me alive.

I live in Canada. Guns are not nearly so big a deal here. Many many people own rifles, especially outside of major metopolitan areas. Gun crime nationally is relatively low. In Ontario, there is a growing problem of handguns smuggled in from the US. I favour extreme penalites for carrying a hand gun.

I ought to point out that my father was murdered with a firearm (his own) when I was very young, so I was raised in a very anti-gun environment.


I'm saddened to hear of your loss Konageezer. It must have been a very traumatic at a young age.

Just to clarify... You say you favour extreme penalties for carrying a hand gun. Now, I realize that the laws vary to some extent between US & Canada. However, in the case of most places here in the States a legal owner can LEGALLY carry any weapon in the open to most places and carry the weapon concealed with proper permitting... Specifically handguns. Do you object to all legal carrying of handguns or just those carried by un-permitted persons.

but if you ever look at a gun liscense there are an A@@ load of places that they cannot be carried concealed or not.

Human beings have an inherent right to self defense - period. The US Constitution guarantees Americans the right to own firearms - period. If you abuse those rights by using the firearm for illegal means or to inflict harm on others without having just cause - you go to jail - period. I don't see why that is so difficult for some to understand, but it is what it is. ;)

but if you ever look at a gun liscense there are an A@@ load of places that they cannot be carried concealed or not.


Kinda all dependent on your location.

In Pennsylvania the STATE restrictions on my CCW are Courthouses & Schools. I've yet to see a sign on any establishment door telling me that my gun isn't welcome within.

Firearms should be controlled, but not illegal.
They are much safer than the person behind the trigger.
If you have a gun, I expect you to be fully aware of how it works,
how to maintain it, and be aware of the path your bullet will be traveling.
Few people need a gun, I hunt, so I have guns.

Its not exactly a secret that I'm a gun loving Libertarian who has spent much time studying this subject. Therefore, I won't bother saying my opinions, except for the fact this is a really stupifying thread. Few if any of you guys have put anything into this besides emotion based brady campaign style trash. If you wish to argue about this, at least show facts that support your opinions. All I ask is that you guys/gals please do your homework before you start running your mouths.

.. before you start running your mouths.

that US speak for expressing an opinion you don´t agree with I suppose

It sure isn't RoyalFlash. I don't care what anybody says about this subject, I think all viewpoints are important. I just like it when people say inteligent comments about an issue so important to me. I certainly "Run my mouth" frequently, but I try not to when I don't know what TF I'm talking about. If you want to be anti gun and debate with me, cool. Just please do your research and try to have some form of point other than crap like "Guns are bad cause they kill people. Only cops and hunters with special certification, licensing and permits need them."

It is indeed hard to win an arguement with a fool, and I have found it to be especially hard to do with most big time anti's. Sarah Brady at least uses her brain to debate this issue, even if she is a lying scumbag. Using reasoning and common sense I have converted many smart people from anti to pro gun, including 3 high school teachers. I have yet to convert one stupid person, but I have tried.

Do you object to all legal carrying of handguns or just those carried by un-permitted persons.

I mean people in Canada. I know the right is enshrined in the US, but in Canada, only people with a "special" (difficult to obtain) permit, and of course law enforcement officials, can carry a hand gun. Those special permit holders are required to observe extraordinary safekeeping regulations and can carry their weapons only between their homes and shooting destinations. Anyone else carrying a handgun is doing so with a nefarious purpose, and ought to receive the full measure of the law in response.

I mean people in Canada. I know the right is enshrined in the US, but in Canada, only people with a "special" (difficult to obtain) permit, and of course law enforcement officials, can carry a hand gun. Those special permit holders are required to observe extraordinary safekeeping regulations and can carry their weapons only between their homes and shooting destinations. Anyone else carrying a handgun is doing so with a nefarious purpose, and ought to receive the full measure of the law in response.


I heartily agree. If you're gonna play, play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get you pee-pee whacked & then some!

you get you pee-pee whacked & then some!
*Gee* Thanks.....there's a visual I did not need.


*cringes in corner of room*

I heartily agree. If you're gonna play, play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get you pee-pee whacked & then some!


OK, now you are just trying to turn me on. :p

what happens when your in canada and you run into one of those people who are illegally carring a pistol...if they decide to rob you do you just get shot? I would hate to have that happen, knowing right away they hav an uperhand on you just like that.

what happens when your in canada and you run into one of those people who are illegally carring a pistol...if they decide to rob you do you just get shot? I would hate to have that happen, knowing right away they hav an uperhand on you just like that.

My karma tells me
You've been screwed again.
If you let them do it to you
You've got yourself to blame.
It's you who feels the pain
It's you that feels ashamed.

;)

That's when the knife comes out.

Besides, I've only been to Canada once, at the tail end of an ice storm... for GRS

hey i would hate it for you if you brought a knife to a gun fight.

Human beings have an inherent right to self defense - period. The US Constitution guarantees Americans the right to own firearms - period. If you abuse those rights by using the firearm for illegal means or to inflict harm on others without having just cause - you go to jail - period. I don't see why that is so difficult for some to understand, but it is what it is. ;)Exactly, and I would add that it does not take a genius to understand this. Some of these places that prosecute YOU for defending yourself against aggression are absolutely INSANE. Living in Canada and Europe might be better in SOME respects, but this is one area in which they are completely wrongheaded.

hey i would hate it for you if you brought a knife to a gun fight.

LMAO! You wouldn't want to be on the receiving end, gun or no gun. My knife cuts four ways: Long, Deep, Wide and Bad.

LMAO! You wouldn't want to be on the receiving end, gun or no gun. My knife cuts four ways: Long, Deep, Wide and Bad.

OK, now I KNOW you are trying to turn me on! :p

OK, now I KNOW you are trying to turn me on! :p


Something tells me it's long since past the stage where I have to 'try'. ;)

Something tells me it's long since past the stage where I have to 'try'. ;)

Yeah, you had me from "It's only funny till someone gets hurt... then it's freakin' hilarious!"

I say banning guns is a terrible idea.

Right now, the only thing that may deter a potential robber is the risk of getting shot.

Jail has pretty much been wussified, with TV, and all kinds of uneeed crap.

I say instead of limiting guns, make the sentencing for gun related offenses far more strict.

Now I am all for not allowing the mentally unstable and criminals from having guns....but since when has telling a criminal not to have a gun stopped anything.

All laws do is affect the honest, and give police something to charge with AFTER the fact.

Plus it's not the gun, nor the bullet that actively chose to kill someone, it's the a-hole pulling the trigger that's the killer.

...I can dig into the 2nd amendment,but refuse to, as well as respond further, until this is inP&R, where it belongs.