Bicycle Mechanics - Crank/Bottom Bracket/Frame Combinations

Anybody know of a resource to determine correct crank and bottom brackets to go with particular framesets? I've researched the frame website (Litespeed) and looked throught my Barnett's manuals, but nothing.

I'm having trouble getting a bottom bracket/crank combination to work with my current frameset. Specifically, inner chain ring rubbing against the frame chain stay.

Taper (not splined) bottom brackets tried
Phil Wood 113mm
Shimano 107mm
Shimano 110mm

Cranks
Older Shimano 105 w 38x48
Older Sampson w 38x49
Shimano Tiagra? w 38x53
Older Campy Record w 39x53

I can get the phil wood to work, but have to skew the drivetrain out so far that I risk dropping the chain, regularly.

Anybody got any ideas? Thanks!








:(

You will not find such a thing as the combinationa are endless.Barnettes tells how to determine chainline.Tiagra double takes a 110 spindle. There is almost always a spindle length spec for a given crank that almost always works. If the chainring hits the stays,then you need a longer spindle for that crank, and that is it. What frame ae you using?

Hey pokey

Frame is a year 2000 Litespeed Appalachian

Alan,

All litespeeds use 68mm width bottom bracket. I have seen
many litespeeds built up with current Campy BBs (both 102 and
111mm spindle length) and Shimano (109 and 111mm spindle,
not sure here).
are we talking pre STI/ERGO here, or the new stuff
(not sure since the phil and campy sound older, as does
the ShimaNo stuff).
Ok, really dumb question, this is a road frame right?
I don't know alot about MTB so it may have totally
different measurements.
If you are getting no joy from Litespeed,
talk to LBS.
Just a few thoughts:
Have you had BB/cranks mounted in this frame that
didn't rub?
Is the BB shell off (also known as wankerjawwed, or
cattywhompus, or toast) due to error in manufacture?

Sorry I can't be much more help here but
I can't see why normal BB/cranks don't fit.

Marty

It's a cross bike.Being current,it should not require anything exotic and should work with 38 rings and normal cranks/BB.I would think the shell width would be 68,and not sure if it was 73 that it would make a difference,but maybe?Never had the problem,and don't have an annswer . What are you running in the back??

Pokey,

I was composing my answer when Alan's post came in
about the bike being an Appalachian.
According to Litespeed it still uses 68mm bottom bracket.
something about this sounds really strange. . .

Marty

Thanks guys.....

The BB is a 68. Drivetrain is STI Dura Ace 8sp. However, for this year, I'm going to an XT rear derailleur and an 11x28 cassette.

I'm gonna try pulling the BB out of my other Litespeed (Classic) and use the Dura Ace cranks to see if that will work. After reading your assessments, I've concluded I've not correctly matched the BB with the crank.

The model 2000 litespeed catalog I got when I bought the frame said the BB used was a Shimano 68x107. Since I was having chain drop problems with a the phil wood 113, I was certain the Shimano would fix it, but I don't have the clearance with this older model crank set.

What I really should do is go out and by a RaceFace LP 48x36, and get the corresponding BB that fits.

A 68x107 was right for the later 105 cranks, Older ones,but I don't how much ollder needed a longer spindle,possibly115 or better. The campy cranks need a diffeent spondle taper than the shimano and most other oriental stuff and the phil BB may have either JIS or ISO(campy) taper. Think you ae on the right track using something that works,assuming THAT BB is actually correct for the crank.I loose track with where I am at in some of my cobbing.

Alan; I’ve just finished with the same issue with another frame/crank/bb combo. Upon the excellent guidance I received from pokey and John E I was able to resolve the somewhat intricate issue.

First, I obtained a 6” (152mm) caliper for making the necessary precise measurements ($20). This proved to be absolutely invaluable.

Second I accurately determined my front and rear chainline values using the methodologies given in Zinn & the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance 3rd Edition (pages 90 through 92) Which by the way were 44.5mm Rear and 46mm Front (reasonable for an “value” priced machine) Please be advised that it may be easier to make the critical small chainring to downtube measurement by fabricating your own feeler gauge (very tight working space).

Next I located Shimano Data Sheets for their Cranksets; and Bottom Brackets which give Chainline “ranges” for different acceptable Axle lengths (i.e. 47.5mm = 112.5mm Axle). Once the chainline values were known, it was a matter of matching the correct Spindle length for the Crankset/BB combo.

It appears that Ultregra BB-6500 may work with the 105 Crankset? And comes in up to 68x118mm size which may be what you’re looking for (however please check Shimano’s charts carefully.

Please try http://www.gama.si/bike/manual/shimano/index_datoteke/sheet010.htm

For information on appropriate Axles lengths for chainline value ranges.

Also the Shimano Web Site in Europe provided excellent data sheets BTY.

Zimm does a very good job of explaining why there are ranges in the Shimano data and which side to strive for.

Have you talked to the folks at Litespeed yet?

Hey Faith,you are good! But the BB6500 is a splined Spindle and the old 105 and other stuff he is working with is square taper.Regards,p

Most Awesome Faith!

I wanted to figure this out on my own, before I bothered others with it, Litespeed included, and in my investigation, found this bike forum and thought I'd give it a shot.

The three folks who've bothered to post have frankly impressed the h*ll out of me. Didn't honestly expect that someone would have the knowledge to solve this. I meet VERY FEW folks who really dig working on their own bikes. Most just defer to the shop. I've even tried working other others bike, but don't get any satisfaction out of it.

I'm headed home in the next hour or so, so I'm gonna continue playing with the inventory of bikes I have, to see if I've got something that will work. That will help me determine what (if anything) I need to purchase.

Later!

Alan; I trust that you’re making progress on this issue. One item I forgot to note that may be of merit is the orientation of the spindle during installation. There has been a marked difference between “longer” drive side (Right) and “shorter” non-drive side (left) on the several dozen or so that I’ve personally seen. However there are some significant exceptions! I have in front of me a four sided spindle (Axle) from a Miyata road machine that has but 1.5mm difference between the bearing race and spindle end on Drive verses Non-Drive side. Casual observation does not yield a discernable difference! Be absolutely certain that the spindle is correctly oriented; otherwise the crank offsets may not be appropriate.

I found a very useful bit of advice in one of my Bicycle Mechanics Guides (sorry can’t recall which at the moment) that stated:

If the spindle (Axle) has any alphanumeric data on it (nearly all the ones I’ve seen do) then position the spindle (Axle) so you can read it (text right side up) and that is the correct orientation for installation (as looking down on it while astride the machine).

This has proven valid for every one that I’ve overhauled. However, please be advised that I’m just a puppy at this art/science and learning at an exponential rate each and every day. Like so many other endeavors, the more you learn, the better it gets! There is some major talent on this forum; I truly hope they can provide timely guidance for you. Cheers; faith

Faith, Pokey

Spent time @ home working on my drivetrain issue. I had to go back to the Phil Wood 113 with the old 105 crank, since I don't have the tool to pull the lockring off the BB from the DA 9sp on my other bike. What I have now should work well enough for the first Cross race of the season, this Sunday.

On a positive note, I was able to swap out the rear derailluer (8sp DA to 9sp XT) and the cassette (13x26 to 11x28). Matched up with a SRAM 8 speed chain and rode to work today. Slight adjustment is needed here and there, but overall, it shifted fine.

My edition of Zinn didn't cover the drivetrain details, maybe I have an older version.

Faith, you're right on drive side spindle issue. I'm pretty sure I've got the orientation correct.

Again, thanks for the help.


:)

alan.....don't know if that 8 speed DA RD worked with the sram shifters or not,but the xt is a better bet.The PRE 9 speed DA RD and shifters were pretty much compatible only owth each other due to unique cable pull derailer throw ratios. Side note,the 8(also 6 ot7 too) speed DA RD will work with any Shimano 9 speed shifer to shift a Shimano 8 speed cogset.

Pokey/Faith,

Thought I'd give you an update. The bike did well in Sunday's race. Me, well I was my typical mediocre self : ) The bike performed really well, and I had no chain drops with the 113 Phil back in the frame. What was different?

1. Reinstalled the BB, trying to get the inner chain ring as close to the frame as possible. This took several attempts since I only had 1 phil wood BB tool.

2. Repositioned my Third Eye Chain Watcher thing. I think this made the biggest difference.

3. Finally, there were few run ups on this course, and typically the chain would dropped after placing the bike back on the ground.

Again, thanks for the help.