I liked that, let's do another one.

OK, this one is from this morning. I was driving my car to work and observed the following.
If you don't find participating in this thread to be interesting and/or useful, please find something else to do.

4 lane road, plus a bike lane along the right edge of the road. I was approaching an intersection with a red light, with several cars already stopped in front of me. The last 20 feet or so of the bike lane the stripe goes from solid to striped. The right lane is straight-or-right at this intersection. In the next block the road Y's, with the left lane splitting from the right. Since I needed to go right at the Y, I was already in the rightmost lane (adjacent to the bike lane). The left lane heads towards the university after the Y.

As I slowed my car to a stop behind the others cars waiting at the red light, I noticed a cyclist up ahead in the bike lane. It looked like he was stopped on or just to the left of the dashed bike lane stripe at the light. When the light turned green, everyone started moving, and I saw the cyclist proceed across the intersection and continue in the bike lane. Since he looked like a student (mountain bike, backpack) I assumed he would need to be merging across the right lane to get into the left lane to take the left branch to the university at the upcoming Y. The cars in front of me were passing him with no significant gaps between them. By the time I started moving at the green light, quite a few more cars had accumulated behind me. So as we were getting closer to the Y, the cyclist was running out of room/time to make his merge to the left branch. Anticipating his need, I slowed to create a gap for him.

Sure enough, as the car in front of me was passing him, I noticed him make a quick split-second glance to the side - just enough so that he could probably see in his peripheral vision that there was a gap forming in front of my car. A moment later he made another quick glance to the side (in a fraction of second he turned his head to the left, and then immediately back to straight ahead), stuck out his left arm to signal left, and rode straight across the right lane from the bike lane to the right side of the left traffic lane, just before the Y, and proceeded along the left branch.

QUESTIONS:
Is this a good example of cycling in traffic? A good example of vehicular cycling? Why or why not?
Did the cyclist negotiate for the ROW? Please explain.
Would you and/or a vehicular cyclist have done anything differently in this situation? If so, what?

Edit: (10/26 11:30 am, PST)
Click here (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=from%3A+Regents+Rd+%26+Miramar+St,+La+Jolla,+CA+92037+to%3A+Regents+Rd+%26+Eastgate+Mall,+La+ Jolla,+CA+92093&f=d&hl=en) for a google map of the area in question... the route from the light to the left branch of the Y (0.1 miles) is highlighted. It's probably about 400 feet, if that, from the light to the base of the "Y".

While the cyclist's move is the way most cyclists do this, I don't think it would fit with your description of "Vehicular Cycling". To do this maneuver the same way as the cyclist, you would have seen me actually signalling going straight from the light, if I wasn't sure the driver next to me wasn't going to turn right. This cyclist did not negotiate for the spot to merge into the traffic lane, he relied on a gap that someone else gave him. It sounds like he should have been looking and also signalling much sooner.
What we're missing here is how long your "block" is. In some places it's over 1/4 mile, but in my area it's usually referred to as a distance of about three houses. In a block that short, to cycle in a Vehicular Cycling manner, the cyclist would have actually occupied the right lane like a car. After leaving the light, this would have negated the need to merge across the right lane to get to the other side of the "Y". A left turn signal being displayed immediately after crossing the intersection might be a good way to let the cars behind know what's going on.
The thing that needs to be watched for when doing this is the last minute lane change by drivers that were in the wrong lane to continue to the right.

Edit: Watch out for last minute lane changes in an are like this no matter what method we use.

Is this a good example of cycling in traffic?

No.

A good example of vehicular cycling?

No.

Why or why not?

The cyclist should have negotiated for ROW, looked, signaled and moved left into the right lane and repeated the actions to get to the lane/location to get them to their destination.

Did the cyclist negotiate for the ROW? Please explain.

Yes, and no... he did for one lane, but then proceeded across it and assumed "protection" for the far left lane and turn.

Would you and/or a vehicular cyclist have done anything differently in this situation? If so, what?

The cyclist should have negotiated for ROW, looked, signaled and moved left into the right lane and repeated the actions to get to the lane/location to get them to their destination. We would expect the same actions from motorists moving across several lanes too... although actually getting a signal from a motorist is pretty much a non happening. :D

I too have seen students doing much the same thing... left turns from the BL... it just looks dangerous. I don't want a BL debate here, but damn, where in the world did they learn that move... Sigh

While the cyclist's move is the way most cyclists do this


"most cyclists... ??? "

Not hardly... the couple of times I have seen this type of move pulled, I thought it was some version of the Jersey sweep... it is a totally foolish move.

Sure it can be pulled off... and I can run across traffic lanes on a freeway too! :eek:

It sounds like the distance from the intersection to the "Y" was too short for what the cyclist did. A better approach would have been to get into the left lane prior to the intersection in advance of the "Y" and move with the flow of traffic after the light changed, rather than dart out across afterwards. Last minute lane changes by cyclists or cars is a bad idea.

There are a couple of intersections very similar to this near me (more lanes, though). I find that I fare better if I get into the left lane well back of the "Y" if I intend to to take the left branch. Going through the Y, I take a good portion of the lane so my intentions are made clear . . . I would say, right tire track or so. This way people are not as tempted to pass me or be confused about which branch I'm taking. Once I get through the intersection I move further to the right, to the bike lane (gasp!) or edge of the road.

I don't know if my approach is a good example of cycling in traffic or VC or what; don't care really. I do know that not doing it has resulted in more close calls, horn honks, and shaking fists than doing as described in the example in the OP.

My 11:30 edit in the OP with the map link should help clarify matters a bit.

"most cyclists... ??? "

Not hardly... the couple of times I have seen this type of move pulled, I thought it was some version of the Jersey sweep... it is a totally foolish move.


Uh, yeah, most cyclists. Stand at the corner of Regents and Executive for 15 minutes any weekday morning, and see if any cyclists do anything other than this... These bike lane cyclists treat the vehicular lane with a pedestrian attitude: it's a place to cross rather than a place to travel.

Uh, yeah, most cyclists. Stand at the corner of Regents and Executive for 15 minutes any weekday morning, and see if any cyclists do anything other than this...

I know the corner well... perhaps "most students," but not "most cyclists."

Actually this Y intersection has a BL on the far right, then just to the left of the right lane that breaks off, is another BL that forms and continues straight for about a 1/4 block. The BL then continues along on the remainder of that breakoff on Regents road. This is all in a 1 block area. Typically to move from one BL to the other, one only crosses the right lane alone... and ROW negotiation only has to be made to cross that one lane. Most traffic flows along the left branch of the Y. The right lane is the "exit" so to speak... normal flow is towards the left branch of the Y.

I have however seen students cross the entire area in one swoop to get to the left lane turn up another 1/2 block.

I go this way on my commute... I move into the right lane and hold off MV traffic as I move into the BL that is just to the left of the low traffic right lane. I then do a merge from the BL into the right lane and enter the left turn lane to make the turn onto campus.

Why do I go this way? To avoid the heavier traffic at Campus point and Genesee with a right only lane that goes down Campus point.

This area also has the distinction of several shops tucked into a small strip mall... where in the early mornings motorists rush like lemmings for their bagals. To prevent right hooks by these not too awake motorists, I use the whole lane rather then ride in the BL. I sure that probably irratates some motorists, but tough.

I added a line to #7. Not to turn this into yet another BL bashing thread, but I've just realized another way to express how bike lanes affect cyclists.

I think bike lanes tend to facilitate treatment of vehicular lanes by cyclists with a "pedestrian" approach: as space to cross rather than as space in which to travel in the normal vehicular direction. Bike lanes also tend to create in motorists the expectation of cyclists to treat the vehicular lanes in this "pedestrian" manner.

This stuff about negotiating a merge...

I try (left arm out firmly, head turned behind me, etc.) all the time, mostly 1/4mi or so before a left turn. But quite often I get no response, just a stream of passing cars. I keep moving so I get closer to intersection and sometimes before I give up and prepare to make a right and a u-turn, a gap opens up (not because I negotiated it) and I take it, cutting hard across 3-lanes. Not really VC, but better than waiting at light of x-street that never turns green.

Oh, as to original scenario. What other said. Really for that short a distance I'd get prepared for turn at stop light before and ride on left side of lane before making left.

Al

I try (left arm out firmly, head turned behind me, etc.) all the time, mostly 1/4mi or so before a left turn. But quite often I get no response, just a stream of passing cars.
What a bunch of *******s. Are you making eye contact with any of them? Are you very expressive with your face? Can your face say, "please let me in?" Are you smiling?

What a bunch of *******s. Are you making eye contact with any of them? Are you very expressive with your face? Can your face say, "please let me in?" Are you smiling?
Its hard to make real eye contact when they are passing at 45-50mph, since in order to negotate you need to get them to slow well before they are close enough to see faces.
The other problem I encounter is that when someone does slow, drivers in the adjacent lane will see the gap and merge into it just when I want to.
Al

Its hard to make real eye contact when they are passing at 45-50mph, since in order to negotate you need to get them to slow well before they are close enough to see faces.
The other problem I encounter is that when someone does slow, drivers in the adjacent lane will see the gap and merge into it just when I want to.
Man, if I ever get out to Phoenix I would love to go for a ride with you here. The eye contact is more about them seeing your face looking at them (or their windshield behind which you can't actually see them) then you actually seeing their face and eyes.

Do you think it's possible that your belief that even if someone slows down for you to create a gap, that gap will be filled by someone else, affects the enthusiasm/conviction with which you are asking for someone to create the gap for you?

At 50 mph, they're moving at 73 feet/second; at 15 mph you're moving at 22 fps.
So to look 1 second back, you have to look back 50 feet.
Five seconds back is 250 feet.
So drivers 4-5 seconds back, which is plenty of time to slow down, should be able to see you signalling 200-250 feet up ahead. Those are the drivers whose attention you're trying to get, not the one immediately behind you. That's who you should be looking at, trying to negotiate with. You might have to stand up and signal with your hand pointed slightly upwards, and index finger sticking out, to get their attention that far back. But the main thing is to be looking at them, so they know you are looking for help from them specifically. Maybe even alternate between pointing at them, back at your chest, and the direction in which you would like to go. Communicate your desire/intent. Get creative. Whatever works...

The other thing is to start inching your way left, and do not yield an inch once you've established your ROW in it. This should cause the flow of motorists to start inching left as they pass you, and naturally slow down, thus reducing the speed differential between you and them, making negotiation that much easier.

Man, if I ever get out to Phoenix I would love to go for a ride with you here. The eye contact is more about them seeing your face looking at them (or their windshield behind which you can't actually see them) then you actually seeing their face and eyes.

Do you think it's possible that your belief that even if someone slows down for you to create a gap, that gap will be filled by someone else, affects the enthusiasm/conviction with which you are asking for someone to create the gap for you?

At 50 mph, they're moving at 73 feet/second; at 15 mph you're moving at 22 fps.
So to look 1 second back, you have to look back 50 feet.
Five seconds back is 250 feet.
So drivers 4-5 seconds back, which is plenty of time to slow down, should be able to see you signalling 200-250 feet up ahead. Those are the drivers whose attention you're trying to get, not the one immediately behind you. That's who you should be looking at, trying to negotiate with. You might have to stand up and signal with your hand pointed slightly upwards, and index finger sticking, to get their attention that far back. But the main thing is to be looking at them, so they know you are looking for help from them specifically.

The other thing is to start inching your way left, and do not yield an inch once you've established your ROW in it. This should cause the flow of motorists to start inching left as they pass you, and naturally slow down, thus reducing the speed differential between you and them, making negotiation that much easier.
Yeah, I figured out most of this stuff. Like you said its the drivers 200ft back who I want to get attention from, hence no eye contact. My guess is those drivers ignore me and fixate on the car in front of them. If they do pay attention to me they probably figure the next driver will slow, or that I am signalling to merge into some imaginary gap behind them.

No my fear of other drivers taking the gap doesn't impede my enthusiam. Its my experience with it that has freaked me out at time, a car slows, I start to merge, making a check of conditions ahead, look back and whoa, there is a car merging right into me. Not fun.

I also have been stuck in the middle of three lanes with cars whizzing by still trying ot merge left (yes left biased in lane) and find this terribly discomforting, end up going thru intersection since I never got the final negotiation and merging back right

Al

I'm not going to touch the VC or bike lane bugaboos, but I wanted to add an observation on the type of scenario Helmet Head posting here because its something I see often, and a situation I have found myself in.

Sooner or later all cyclists will find themselves in that "oops, I'm about to miss my turn" spot. For some its due to lack of planning or experience with lane changing, to others it may be distraction, rush-hour traffic making lane changes difficult, or other problems. Unfortunately too many people react with a "gotta make that turn" move and cut across multiple lanes, etc. I've found myself doing that a few times, and cussed myself out for it later.

Missing your turn is no big deal, and it beats becoming road kill. You can catch the next turn and double-back, or you can (gasp!) get off the bike at an intersection and use the cross-walks. Its not the end of the world, and it is safer than a mad dash across multiple lanes.

...is safer than a mad dash across multiple lanes.
Agreed. I mentioned my 'last minute' cut acrosses above. These are not mad dashes in a small gap, I only cut across hard if the gap is fairly significant and across all three lane. Safety is always first for me. Most of the time if I don't get a negotiated merge I end up turning right, u-turning and crossing.

In recent mornings the sun is so low and directly behind me so I can't even see if cars are coming or not, so I do the safe turn described above.

Al

Its not the end of the world, and it is safer than a mad dash across multiple lanes.
We need to teach motorist this too. Especially freeway drivers who exit at the last minute from the far left lane!

Al

I'm not going to touch the VC or bike lane bugaboos, but I wanted to add an observation on the type of scenario Helmet Head posting here because its something I see often, and a situation I have found myself in.

Sooner or later all cyclists will find themselves in that "oops, I'm about to miss my turn" spot. For some its due to lack of planning or experience with lane changing, to others it may be distraction, rush-hour traffic making lane changes difficult, or other problems. Unfortunately too many people react with a "gotta make that turn" move and cut across multiple lanes, etc. I've found myself doing that a few times, and cussed myself out for it later.

Missing your turn is no big deal, and it beats becoming road kill. You can catch the next turn and double-back, or you can (gasp!) get off the bike at an intersection and use the cross-walks. Its not the end of the world, and it is safer than a mad dash across multiple lanes.
Yep, I've had that happen to me. Doesn't hurt to just stop at the side of the road and wait until it's clear, too. That works if traffic isn't too steady and you are certain once this bunch of cars passes there will be nobody there.

If we could watch an intersection like this in the area I work, this scenario wouldn't be played out like this very much. The majority of people on bicycles would be riding up the left side of the road anyway. I'm not sure how the ones coming toward us would do it, we'd have to see how the sidewalks are laid out.

We need to teach motorist this too. Especially freeway drivers who exit at the last minute from the far left lane! Al

I know! Or the ones who enter the turn lane by pulling a sharp turn at the last minute, and then get all upset if someone else (car or bike) is already moving down the lane. Hello... the turn lane is long for a reason, you are allowed to use it before reaching the last few feet.

Depending on how far it is to from the light to the Y, and depending on traffic conditions I would probably take the left lane before I got to the light. Heavier traffic, I would start moving over earlier.

Boy, all this logic is making my head hurt like i was on a date with a mensa member!

The cyclist should have been left, signaled left earlier. Left of the lane at the stop, then straight thru instead of veering left makes me think he was an idiot- or maybe, he decided at the last minute to go get some doughnuts.

What I found very interesting in this liddle riddle from HH was his perspective on the 'bad biking' or whatever HH's point is. MR VC tain't as VC as I thought he was!!!!

What I found very interesting in this liddle riddle from HH was his perspective on the 'bad biking' or whatever HH's point is. MR VC tain't as VC as I thought he was!!!!
What are you talking about? I haven't yet stated my opinion about this situation at all in this thread. How can you find "my perspective" interesting when you have been given little if any clue as to what it is?

your perspective was from behind a windshield, dude.


My image of you as a VC cycling, self styled demigod, are forever shattered.


If you and Genec were riding in the car together, maybe you could have slowed down to go 1 on 1 with him and heckle the cyclist about his non VC riding.

your perspective was from behind a windshield, dude.
So what? Do people who ever drive cars lose all credibility with respect to cycling? Is that your point? :rolleyes:

This section is on my commute (I use the same route whether I drive or cycle), and also on my Saturday club ride, and so I have cycled it at least 800 times in the last five years. What this cyclist did I've seen done hundreds of times. That's how I knew to create the gap for him.

OK, this one is from this morning. I was driving my car to work and observed the following.
If you don't find participating in this thread to be interesting and/or useful, please find something else to do.

4 lane road, plus a bike lane along the right edge of the road. I was approaching an intersection with a red light, with several cars already stopped in front of me. The last 20 feet or so of the bike lane the stripe goes from solid to striped. The right lane is straight-or-right at this intersection. In the next block the road Y's, with the left lane splitting from the right. Since I needed to go right at the Y, I was already in the rightmost lane (adjacent to the bike lane). The left lane heads towards the university after the Y.

As I slowed my car to a stop behind the others cars waiting at the red light, I noticed a cyclist up ahead in the bike lane. It looked like he was stopped on or just to the left of the dashed bike lane stripe at the light. When the light turned green, everyone started moving, and I saw the cyclist proceed across the intersection and continue in the bike lane. Since he looked like a student (mountain bike, backpack) I assumed he would need to be merging across the right lane to get into the left lane to take the left branch to the university at the upcoming Y. The cars in front of me were passing him with no significant gaps between them. By the time I started moving at the green light, quite a few more cars had accumulated behind me. So as we were getting closer to the Y, the cyclist was running out of room/time to make his merge to the left branch. Anticipating his need, I slowed to create a gap for him.

Sure enough, as the car in front of me was passing him, I noticed him make a quick split-second glance to the side - just enough so that he could probably see in his peripheral vision that there was a gap forming in front of my car. A moment later he made another quick glance to the side (in a fraction of second he turned his head to the left, and then immediately back to straight ahead), stuck out his left arm to signal left, and rode straight across the right lane from the bike lane to the right side of the left traffic lane, just before the Y, and proceeded along the left branch.

QUESTIONS:
Is this a good example of cycling in traffic? A good example of vehicular cycling? Why or why not?
Did the cyclist negotiate for the ROW? Please explain.
Would you and/or a vehicular cyclist have done anything differently in this situation? If so, what?

Edit: (10/26 11:30 am, PST)
Click here (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=from%3A+Regents+Rd+%26+Miramar+St,+La+Jolla,+CA+92037+to%3A+Regents+Rd+%26+Eastgate+Mall,+La+ Jolla,+CA+92093&f=d&hl=en) for a google map of the area in question... the route from the light to the left branch of the Y (0.1 miles) is highlighted. It's probably about 400 feet, if that, from the light to the base of the "Y".

I don't think it is an example of good cycling in traffic, vehicular or otherwise. He may have thought he had negotiated for the ROW, but he didn't, you were nice enough to give it to him without the need to.

While he did give a look, which may or may not have communicated his intentions to drivers such as yourself, he didn't make eye contact. The signal was barely adequate and did not communicate his intention of crossing multiple lanes, which is not a good practice in a cage or on a bike.

I probably would not have been in the bike lane at all, but for the sake of this discussion I will assume I was in the lane as he was. I would have moved to merge from the bike lane and into the right lane long before the intersection, probably monitoring the lane through my mirror, then giving a look to verify a potential gap, signalling, then turning to make eye contact with you, the car behind the gap in the right lane. I would have taken your slowing down as a sign that we understood each other's intentions, signaled again and taken the lane, moving into the left tire track. From there I would have repeated the procedure to move into the left lane to take left fork of the Y. I would have taken the lane here too, but would have moved right to allow traffic to pass once I had gotten past the Y.

OK HH, what have I done wrong? Gawd I always hated pop quizes!

I hope the irony of Helmet Head coming up with VC exercises as he drives by bikers in his car isn't lost on anyone.

I'm more than a little disgusted. Nauseous, actually.

This section is on my commute (I use the same route whether I drive or cycle), and also on my Saturday club ride, and so I have cycled it at least 800 times in the last five years. .

AHA !!! Soooo, we'll get to find out how you do this spot?

OOps, I forgot. What is at the intersection of the "Y" to the right, and the mall roadway? Stop sign? Traffic light? Open intersection?

I hope the irony of Helmet Head coming up with VC exercises as he drives by bikers in his car isn't lost on anyone.

I'm more than a little disgusted. Nauseous, actually.

If you feel like you are going to ralph, I have dibs on the big pieces! :eek:

hypocritical advocacy.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

I hope the irony of Helmet Head coming up with VC exercises as he drives by bikers in his car isn't lost on anyone.
Sorry, but you're going to have to spell out what you think the irony is, and its significance, at least for me to get it.


Soooo, we'll get to find out how you do this spot?
Well, when going to work, I take the right fork, so have no need to merge to the left fork. But I do ride centerish in the lane, well outside the bike lane, whether I'm taking the left or right fork of the Y coming up in 400 feet or so.

On the Saturday club ride we do take the left fork, but there is usually no other traffic then, and when there's 30-80 of us, we're obviously taking the lane. However, we usually leave the left lane open in case a car does show up, until we're through the intersection and within 400 feet or so of the Y.

hypocritical advocacy.
What is hypocritical about advocating vehicular cycling and driving a car? What does one have to do with the other?

Are you confusing cycling advocacy with anti-motoring advocacy?

hypocritical advocacy.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

OK, this is going to feel kind of wierd. I don't mind defending HH to the likes of one who will remain nameless (and spineless), but you are actually human and likeable. Where is the hypocricy - the fact that HH drives and is a cycling advocate? Geeze that would make me one too, cuz I drive as well. Or am I missing the obvious, buffoon that I am?

Adocating for Vehicular Cycling from a car seat isn't ironic?

You're just another cager with a helluva lot of opinion about how other people should ride their bikes, HH. Come on, buddy. Admit it, you harass non-VC cyclists from your car just like Genec, don't you?


I'm getting sick again, I'm out of here for a breath of fresh air.


HH, you are truly a piece of work. congratulations.

Because I oppose bike lanes in general on roads where slow moving vehicles are not prohibited, a lot of members here take a dislike to me.

Once someone dislikes someone, they rationalize their dislike by finding all kinds of excuses to criticize the other. I'm sure you've been there. It's not unlike being in the final throws of a bad romantic relationship... :eek:

Adocating for Vehicular Cycling from a car seat isn't ironic?

Wouldn't it be logical rather than ironic? How can you emulate a vehicle without 'being' the vehicle? :D But enough of this Zen stuff, I want my paper graded!

Well, you're not getting my nomination for Vehicular cyclist of the year, that's fer shure, helmet head!


*lost my appetite*

Because I oppose bike lanes in general on roads where slow moving vehicles are not prohibited, a lot of members here take a dislike to me.

Once someone dislikes someone, they rationalize their dislike by finding all kinds of excuses to criticize the other. I'm sure you've been there. It's not unlike being in the final throws of a bad romantic relationship... :eek:

...or, it could just be your bad breath. ;), Now quit tormenting me and GRADE MY PAPER!!! :cry:

Admit it, you harass non-VC cyclists from your car just like Genec, don't you?
Actually, I haven't, but I don't see what the problem would be. Well, I wouldn't harass of course, but I might ask a cyclist if might make a suggestion...

I take it back! I just remembered. I did do it once. I was out of town, visiting family. I saw a woman pulling a kid in a trailer going the wrong way on a quiet 4 lane boulevard. I opened my window and said something like, "Excuse me... did you know a cyclist is much more likely to be involved in a collision when riding against traffic?" She said "no", and we went on.

If she and/or the kid had gotten hit and I hadn't said anything, I would have felt horrible. That's why I did what I did.

I don't think it is an example of good cycling in traffic, vehicular or otherwise. He may have thought he had negotiated for the ROW, but he didn't, you were nice enough to give it to him without the need to.
Outstanding.


While he did give a look, which may or may not have communicated his intentions to drivers such as yourself, he didn't make eye contact. The signal was barely adequate and did not communicate his intention of crossing multiple lanes, which is not a good practice in a cage or on a bike.
Major points for noting that his look was inadequate, but the feeble signalling was fine. In fact, I would say none was necessary, since I obviously already yielded the ROW to him. So you get a slight dock for saying the signal was "barely adequate".


I probably would not have been in the bike lane at all, but for the sake of this discussion I will assume I was in the lane as he was.
Based on the volume and low speed of traffic (25 mph speed limit) here, there is really no need to start negotiating to leave the bike lane until after the intersection, but there is no way you could have known that, so no loss of points for it.


I would have moved to merge from the bike lane and into the right lane long before the intersection, probably monitoring the lane through my mirror, then giving a look to verify a potential gap, signalling, then turning to make eye contact with you, the car behind the gap in the right lane.
Very close. But in this case there were no gaps at the time you'd be monitoring in the mirror; nothing to verify with a shoulder check. You'd have to create a gap. And you do that not by merely verifying a potential gap, but by giving a good long shoulder check look (2-3 seconds), and perhaps signaling (if necessary), in order to clearly communicate your desire for someone to yield the ROW to you, in the highly likely case that there would not be someone like me who would yield before you even asked.


I would have taken your slowing down as a sign that we understood each other's intentions, signaled again and taken the lane, moving into the left tire track. From there I would have repeated the procedure to move into the left lane to take left fork of the Y. I would have taken the lane here too, but would have moved right to allow traffic to pass once I had gotten past the Y.
Outstanding.

OK HH, what have I done wrong? Gawd I always hated pop quizes!


A-

You know, to be an expert in a field, you need some credibility.

And Helmet Head, you got no cred.

Mighty pretty glass bicycle you've got strapped to the back of your petrol powered soapbox, though.

I've got whatever credibility each of you want to give me, just like anyone else on this forum.

Those of you who give me no credibility, I assume you have no reason to read my posts.

If you respond to my posts, I'll take that as evidence of you giving me not only enough credibility to read my posts, but respond to them too. Thanks. I appreciate that.

A moment later he made another quick glance to the side (in a fraction of second he turned his head to the left, and then immediately back to straight ahead), stuck out his left arm to signal left, and rode straight across the right lane from the bike lane to the right side of the left traffic lane, just before the Y, and proceeded along the left branch.
--- The key phrase in the description is "...rode straight across the right lane...". A vehicular cyclist would signal and merge with the traffic as autos are required to do.

I would have just run the previous red light and cut across the three empty lanes ahead of all the traffic still stuck at the red, zigzagged through the turning/crossing traffic if I had to, then I would have been out of the saddle pedalling my *** off in the left lane all the way to the turnoff..... that's the VH technique - Vehichular Hooning :D

A-

I am a freaking guru, I am 'ALMOST VC MAN'! :rolleyes:


Quote:
I would have moved to merge from the bike lane and into the right lane long before the intersection, probably monitoring the lane through my mirror, then giving a look to verify a potential gap, signalling, then turning to make eye contact with you, the car behind the gap in the right lane.

Very close. But in this case there were no gaps at the time you'd be monitoring in the mirror; nothing to verify with a shoulder check. You'd have to create a gap. And you do that not by merely verifying a potential gap, but by giving a good long shoulder check look (2-3 seconds), and perhaps signaling (if necessary), in order to clearly communicate your desire for someone to yield the ROW to you, in the highly likely case that there would not be someone like me who would yield before you even asked.

By monitoring the lane, I am just getting an overall picture of what is going on behind me, my look is what will create a gap if one is not forthcoming. I agree that it takes a good look and communication of your intentions to request ROW, but I think we differ in the amount of time, though I will stipulate 1-2 seconds. I believe we might differ on my term 'request' for ROW...vehicle or not, one does not make demands from an inferior tactical position.

I would have just run the previous red light and cut across the three empty lanes ahead of all the traffic still stuck at the red, zigzagged through the turning/crossing traffic if I had to, then I would have been out of the saddle pedalling my *** off in the left lane all the way to the turnoff..... that's the VH technique - Vehichular Hooning :D

Hey HH, SO WHER THE HELL IS MY GODDAM GRADING, GODDAMIT! :p

I would have been cycicular vehicling just like Helmet Head. The CV technique. And then I'd talk about it on the internet.

Yep, I've had that happen to me. Doesn't hurt to just stop at the side of the road and wait until it's clear, too. That works if traffic isn't too steady and you are certain once this bunch of cars passes there will be nobody there.
Your ideas make good back up plans.

The cyclists should have done a better job of signalling his lane shifts. He should tried to move into the right car traffic lane and left car traffic lane earlier. Cars will often give us gaps if we look back and signal.

The other thing is to start inching your way left, and do not yield an inch once you've established your ROW in it. This should cause the flow of motorists to start inching left as they pass you, and naturally slow down, thus reducing the speed differential between you and them, making negotiation that much easier.
One thing I've experienced is that the initial merge from the bike lane into the primary lane is the hardest to get drivers to respond to. Drivers don't expect cyclist to leave the BL and when you try over 1/4mi from the next intersection, they must wonder why and ignore my look back and arm sticking out and finger pointing and jabbing, even when I am already 6" over the bike lane stripe, inching my way out. I find when I am riding in a WOL (even to the right side) or a NOL that is is much easier to get a response when negotiating a merge.

You many suggest to not ride in the BL or merge out of it sooner, but on these roads traffic is near bumper to bumper and traveling at 45-50mph with widely spaced intersections, so it simply doesn't make sense to ride outside the bike lane until say a little over 1/4mi before where the turn is planned.

Al

Is this a good example of cycling in traffic? A good example of vehicular cycling? Why or why not?

It's a good example of what's actually done. It's not a good example of what should be done.

The problem is that the bike lane sends a signal to the cyclist that that's where he "belongs". Unfortunately, it doesn't go where he wants to go. He has a conflict: he knows he needs to go left up ahead, so he should be in the left lane. However, he "belongs" in the bike lane, so he stays there too long.

Did the cyclist negotiate for the ROW? Please explain.

No, you gave it to him before he looked. He saw the small gap and jumped into it

Would you and/or a vehicular cyclist have done anything differently in this situation? If so, what?

Try to be in the left lane sooner. Unfortunately the bike lane sends the same message to drivers: that's where the cyclist "belongs". What the #$%^ is he doing in the left lane, when there's a perfectly good bike lane right over there?