Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Hottentots in Prospect Park Thursday Nights

Dear Hottentots,

The "Hottentots" is the name my friend and I gave to all you single-speed Thursday night racers in Prospect Park, Brooklyn. But after seeing how fast y'all ride, your name changed from "Hottentots" to simply "Those ****ers". We saw you race last night, and there's no way we could hang with you. But rest assured, we're training. And training and training and training.

And someday we WILL be able to hang with you AND your spiffy little bikes too!

****ers.


--Matt

good luck, you will never be as fast as us ...wannabees

it's nice people are giving some respect to the Thursday night races... it's no joke... i don't want to say people are never going to be as fast, because i'm not always so fast myself... but yeah. respect. we're not screwing around.

what's the race format like?? not that i'm in back in shape enough to race with any seriousness, but wondering anyways.

You guys are fast. You got my respect. Especially the really big dude that was racing.

> good luck, you will never be as fast as us ...wannabees


Ah yes, enjoy the elitism while it lasts...

Hottentot? Do your research and find out the truemeaning of this derogatory term. Ignorance is not bliss.

Oh yeah, the word SO offensive it was used in the film "Mary Poppins", i.e. "We're being invaded by Hottentots!"

This ain't South Africa.

Oh yeah, the word SO offensive it was used in the film "Mary Poppins", i.e. "We're being invaded by Hottentots!"

This ain't South Africa.

Disney (producer of Mary Poppins) also produced the racist film "Song of the South" at a time when such jokes were deemed acceptable. America andSouth Africa institutionalized segregation. The mutilated remains of an African woman was displayed on a tour of Europe & USA ( Hottentot Venus). Your point was what?
"Ignorance is not Bliss"
Are the youth so shortsighted and simpleminded? Does the rap CD in your collection make you ephathetic?
Or just pathetic?

The moderators find a buckethead reference off topic but allow for such foolishness? Hmmmm....

Perhaps thisthread is off-topic and needs censorship...It offends many.Yes, South Africans ride Fixies and surf the web, just like you.....[SIZE=2]

psssst. why doncha simply explain what the term really DOES mean instead of getting all thin about it.
ending ignorance is bliss, too

If you wanna read about cycling, ignore the rest of this post.

Yes, South Africans surf the web. But a word in South African English doesn't mean the same as it does in American English, or in Brooklynese. I just checked my Oxford English Dictionary, and it said nothing about the word being offensive. It said the language of some African bushmen was characterized by the repeated use of the syllables "hot" and "tot". Thus "Hottentots".

The word "Hottentot" fell into disuse over the past century, which is why the only place I've ever heard it was in a Disney film.

The sound of the word "hottentots" implies a bunch of loud & boisterous people, which is how it was meant. It also contains the word "hot", which they are because the Prospect Park group rides REAL fast.

If you read my original post, you'd realize the whole thing is a compliment.

And BTW, I don't understand what rap music has to do with any of this.

Back to cycling now?

Hottenton is the derogatory term for the Khoikoisan-language speaking group of people living in South Africa. Sarah Bartmaan, a South African woman, was brutally displayed during her life, and after her death for having "exotic genitalia". Her body was cut up and Americans lined up and payed a fee to see the " Hottentot Venus".
Most threads that develop into conflicting viewpoint are censored, so I indicated the need for research. (as Ceya would say:"Did you search?"). Let's rename this thread, seriously. I have a lot of African friends that don't understand the need for this. Thank you for listening.




"I and my kind do not convince with argument; we convince with our presence."
-Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

You sure let one word have a lot of power over you. An obscure, antiquated word; one that wasn’t even used in a derogatory sense. There are a lot more worthwhile things to be concerned with, and I am sure you have enough mental strength to overcome this.

Anyways, matzees said he wasn't going to use the word in question anymore. The much more acceptable ****ers replaces it.

Oh my, the new word actually got censored, jeez, it must have offended someone.

You sure let one word have a lot of power over you. An obscure, antiquated word; one that wasn’t even used in a derogatory sense. There are a lot more worthwhile things to be concerned with, and I am sure you have enough mental strength to overcome this.

Anyways, matzees said he wasn't going to use the word in question anymore. The much more acceptable ****ers replaces it.

Oh my, the new word actually got censored, jeez, it must have offended someone.

It is apparently okay to co-opt African culture but positively blashphemous to co-opt messenger culture???:o Let's hope not. ;)

It was not the words, or the user that bothers. It is the fact that Westerners (us) so quickly forget the offenses that are not obscure to those who are still affected by our ignorance. (them) I just rode w/ a friend from South Africa, and possibly would remaim ignorant of such offenses myself if a living soul did not point it out to me. I am a kind person, and mean no ill will toward Matzees, who obviously posted ( and rides) out of a genuine passion for biking. Forgive me for trying to enlighten the lad. I had no idea that my response would be recieved with such defensiveness. But again , why not clear the air if it will welcome our African and other Global members without appropriating or unintentionally misusing the language? :) Let us ride together :)

Don't ignore every old hippie you meet-some of us actually mean well.

I just thought it was a snazzier way of saying "hotshot" and it's clear that's pretty much what the OP thought, too. Thanks for the heads up, Serendipper. I stick my foot in it enough as it is. :)

Yo, Matzees...if the air is clear,I'll buy you a beer! :beer:

NOW LET'S RIDE!

[QUOTE=Serendipper]Yo, Matzees...if the air is clear,I'll buy you a beer! :beer:

Oh hey man, no problem. If your ever in town, I'll take you up on that!

[QUOTE=Serendipper]Yo, Matzees...if the air is clear,I'll buy you a beer! :beer:

Oh hey man, no problem. If your ever in town, I'll take you up on that!

(insert Ja Rule instrumental)
"We'll be ridin' bikes and dodgin' cabs...down in NEW YAWK, NEW YAWK!!!! ":D

I used to live across fromm the Botanical Gardens back in tha' day...Man I miss Brooklyn. :cry:

GRAND ARMY STILL RULES

Avoiding posts 6-18, thanks for the compliments! I'll just interpret you as meaning "hot, fast fückers". Which is probably safer. Keep on coming out & keep on training. Ain't no one who can't be as fast as we are if you don't try hard enough. We all had to get there from somewhere.

wow...

Back to cycling:

My trusty sidekick, Commander Sausage (he wears spandex), and I decided to time ourselves, thus creating a comparison to Those F**kers in Prospect Park on Thursdays, and to see just how much work we needed to do before we could hang with them. We did this two nights ago on a 0.8 mile flat track in Marine Park.

BTW- This is a nice flat track to ride at night. No obstacles except the occaisional oblivious dog walker or minor tree limb in the road. Keeps things interesting, especially if you don't have lights on your bike.

Anyway, me & Commander Sausage are running just under 10 minutes for a three mile loop on a flat surface. This gives us a baseline to work from. It will be interesting to see how we do over the same distance in Prospect Park with all the hills & stuff.

As far as Commander Sausage being a spandex sausage, he beat my best lap time by 9 seconds, and he was tired when he did it. Maybe there IS something to all this "aero" crap being bandied about?! Maybe I'm really HIS sidekick?!!

[cue Twilight Zone theme]

I could "accidentally" say that the attitudes of the original poster sound like they originated from inbred redneck trailer trash. But, the guidelines for "BikeForums" do not allow insulting language...so I'll just have to remain silent on this issue.

I have noticed on the "Bike Forums" that several times a week someone posts an insult directed at African-Americans and then says "Why are people SO sensitive"? I wonder how sensitive folks would be when it is THEIR ox getting gored?

hear hear. "accidental" racist language is still that -- quite racist. i couldn't believe some of the defenses thrown around above. serendipper patiently and repeatedly explained the reprehensible meaning of the word, and still there were objections. and this from the people who are ready to start a flame war when someone mentions a 1mm-wrong frame measurement! get your priorities straight.

...yeah, so anyway... :rolleyes:

that's good mattzees, off to a good start. tho the flat is what's making your timing look so juicy.
I'm not saying that there's a tremendous difference, but hit the terrain of PP and watch your time drop. The terrain is what enriches the whole event (that, and being around all those nice bike people).
Makes a world of difference.

what are you guys driving anyways? triples?

Back to cycling:

My trusty sidekick, Commander Sausage (he wears spandex), and I decided to time ourselves, thus creating a comparison to Those F**kers in Prospect Park on Thursdays, and to see just how much work we needed to do before we could hang with them. We did this two nights ago on a 0.8 mile flat track in Marine Park.

BTW- This is a nice flat track to ride at night. No obstacles except the occaisional oblivious dog walker or minor tree limb in the road. Keeps things interesting, especially if you don't have lights on your bike.

Anyway, me & Commander Sausage are running just under 10 minutes for a three mile loop on a flat surface. This gives us a baseline to work from. It will be interesting to see how we do over the same distance in Prospect Park with all the hills & stuff.

As far as Commander Sausage being a spandex sausage, he beat my best lap time by 9 seconds, and he was tired when he did it. Maybe there IS something to all this "aero" crap being bandied about?! Maybe I'm really HIS sidekick?!!

[cue Twilight Zone theme]

You and your sidekick should come out this thursday and race with us. We don't care who's slow or not, we're all there for fun. At least come and watch and mingle with us.

> ...hit the terrain of PP and watch your time drop.

That's what I'm figuring. We measured our times on a flat track just to have a baseline. It will be interesting to see just how much of a difference the hills make.


> what are you guys driving anyways? triples?

Nope. I'm on a Specialized Allez Comp. Commander Sausage is on a Cannondale R1000.

You and your sidekick should come out this thursday and race with us. We don't care who's slow or not, we're all there for fun. At least come and watch and mingle with us.

I don't think you guys need 15+ minute lap times messing up your event. We'll just drop by and say Hi.

I'm also working thru a back injury right now. Feels great when I ride, but not so good the next day.

Commander Sausage here. To answer some questions:

1 - The term Hotten... was coined by matzees, not myself. I always called you "dirty f**kers", especially when you'd sailed past me, having a light conversaation, while I would struggle to keep up. I've been training, so I'm catching up. You guys still are amazing on those hills though.

2 - I ride 2 bikes, odd days I ride my trek 3900 mountain bike (triple in front 8 in back), even days I ride this sweet cannondale I picked up for a song from someone at work. (ultegra 9 spd with 2 in front)

3 - I've been thinking of racing, but I always thought you needed a fixie, and besides, I'm not that fast. I've been biking off and on for years recreationally, and this season I really got into it. My new job allowed me more free time, and I was able to loose alot of weight because of the riding, I love biking, and I'm gonna see how far I can go before the weather gets too rough.

4 - See you guys tonight, I'll be there, mattzees may have to go out of town, but I'm sure he'll try to make it if he can.

You do actually need a fixed gear bike to race. There was some talk of allowing singlespeeds at one point, but geared bikes are out. Not for elitist reasons, but competitive ones (and safety ones too.)

gotcha. oh well... can't really see buying a 3rd bike right now. maybe once the weather warms up again. noumena, I undestand the whole competitive thing, but safety? why is a fixie safer than a geared bike?

we ride in a paceline for much of the race so when your riding a geared bike in a paceline with track bikes, it's not safe for us or you.

gotcha. oh well... can't really see buying a 3rd bike right now. maybe once the weather warms up again. noumena, I undestand the whole competitive thing, but safety? why is a fixie safer than a geared bike?

It's not that a fixie is inherently safer, it's that riding a geared bike in a peleton of fixies is dangerous. Since everyone else is on a fixie...

Basically a geared bike can stop a lot faster and handles differently so the potential for really bad accidents is a little higher.

If I understand correctly, and I don't, in a paceline, if the geared bike hits the brakes, the fixies behind him pile right into him.

If I understand correctly, and I don't, in a paceline, if the geared bike hits the brakes, the fixies behind him pile right into him.


I never thought of that. Funny to think about, but the actual execution is probably not so much fun.

Additional question:
How can a rider on a fixie take full advantage of the downhills? When I'm in my top gear, and spinning at about 60% capacity, I'm just matching the speed of my bike coasting down the hill. Could I still go faster? Yeah, but I'm pushing thru wind resistance at this point. It seems to me that most fixies are geared lower than the highest gear on my geared bike. Doesn't being on a fixie cause you to lose some of the speed that you would have gained if you could have just coasted down the hill? It seems like your legs would be fighting the hill.

Braking in a paceline with geared bikes is a major no-no unless you signal beforehand. Even then it will most likely cause a pile-up and some angry people. Managing speed is usually accomplished through pedaling cadence and coasting which can be partly accomplished on fixed bike (except for the coasting of course).

It is not recommended that you ride a fixed in a geared paceline unless you stay near the rear or with people who trust you and that you trust also.

I never thought of that. Funny to think about, but the actual execution is probably not so much fun.

Additional question:
How can a rider on a fixie take full advantage of the downhills? When I'm in my top gear, and spinning at about 60% capacity, I'm just matching the speed of my bike coasting down the hill. Could I still go faster? Yeah, but I'm pushing thru wind resistance at this point. It seems to me that most fixies are geared lower than the highest gear on my geared bike. Doesn't being on a fixie cause you to lose some of the speed that you would have gained if you could have just coasted down the hill? It seems like your legs would be fighting the hill.

I'm pushing around 75 gear inches and I'd guess that on the downhill I'm spinning at about 180 rpm. I can't sustain that cadence for very long but I can for the length of the downhill in the park. In any case, I could probably go down that hill faster on a geared bike.

In other words, I can't take full advantage of the downhill, which is part of the reason that the races are fixed only.

How can a rider on a fixie take full advantage of the downhills? When I'm in my top gear, and spinning at about 60% capacity, I'm just matching the speed of my bike coasting down the hill. Could I still go faster? Yeah, but I'm pushing thru wind resistance at this point. It seems to me that most fixies are geared lower than the highest gear on my geared bike. Doesn't being on a fixie cause you to lose some of the speed that you would have gained if you could have just coasted down the hill? It seems like your legs would be fighting the hill.

Well, Short answer is... leg speed. You need to be able to spin like crazy if you want to go fast and keep up with your bike going downhill.

Long answer.... you want to find the best balance between a high gear for going down hill and a low enough gear to make it up the hills on the back stretch. In PP I use a 50x16. Which gives me some push going down (although I still spin really fast) and still makes it possible for me to get up those hills at the end of the course just fast enough.

Remember, since you only have one choice you have to make it count. After some trial and error and once you realize your potential the choice seems to become more clear...