What I want to know is why do some people disagree with Critical Mass, which I guess also means I don't fully understand what it is...
When I first heard of CM, I thought it sounded great, especially after experiencing a ride that went past my apartment on a very busy street. The rumble of traffic ceased (people always thought I was talking to them from the corner payphone, it was that loud inside my apartment), and a large group of people on bicycles rode past (just a swooshing sound, very tranquil). I haven't participated in a ride, though I am interested in doing so...(I always forget, until I see bicycles headed downtown en masse). After witnessing a few rides, I wonder what the opposition is to this...other than being a driver of a car, and being temporarily delayed (but, that is routine in traffic). I think if anyone could stand inside my old apartment and experience the absence of car engines, horns, etc. and finally experience the peace of quiet movement, they may see it in a different way. I am curious, though, what the reasons people have for participating, or for not participating?
;)
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
I'd recommend that you do a search on CM, you'll find a number of opinions on it, ranging from 'it's a stupid activity that simply alienates the vast majority of the population against cyclists' to 'it's a valid activity to bring our needs to the forefront'.
My own opinion, by blocking traffic, disrupting people and flaunting the traffic laws doesn't doesn't make make it a positive overall.
Just my opinion, and yes, I have done a CM ride before.....
Steve W
Scooper
What a great question!
In San Francisco, the effect of critical mass is that it totally screws up commute traffic on the last Friday of the month. The participating cyclists, as far as I can tell, are anarchist hoodlums who relish in raising hell, disobeying traffic laws, and disrupting motor vehicle traffic. They make me ashamed to be a bicyclist. I wish the cops would round them all up, put 'em in jail, and throw the keys away.
michaelnel
I'm with Scooper, 100%.
palmertires
What a great question!
In San Francisco, the effect of critical mass is that it totally screws up commute traffic on the last Friday of the month. The participating cyclists, as far as I can tell, are anarchist hoodlums who relish in raising hell, disobeying traffic laws, and disrupting motor vehicle traffic. They make me ashamed to be a bicyclist. I wish the cops would round them all up, put 'em in jail, and throw the keys away.
Throwing away the key is pretty serious...
Cycliste
Throwing away the key is pretty serious...
I agree, what about all these bikes ? :D
Serendipper
No, problem, Scooper & michaelnell! Just post your adressess and the time you'll be at home, and the Federal Authorities will be on their way!
Oh, you wanted a selective roundup?
Well where do we start? As far as you can tell...?
"When you assume and you make an ass of U and Me..."
zip22
police auction ;)
Treespeed
What a great question!
In San Francisco, the effect of critical mass is that it totally screws up commute traffic on the last Friday of the month. The participating cyclists, as far as I can tell, are anarchist hoodlums who relish in raising hell, disobeying traffic laws, and disrupting motor vehicle traffic. They make me ashamed to be a bicyclist. I wish the cops would round them all up, put 'em in jail, and throw the keys away.
Wow and I though San Fran. was a tolerant city. Good for the rest of us that Stan's not in charge of our civil liberties. As long as you're locking up those anarchist hoodlums, might as well lock up the long haired pinko commies too. Then it will be a utopia of cranky old white guys.
:D
cheezthis
There should be a better way to make a statement like their's. Causing more problems isn't usually a good way to solve one.
michaelnel
As long as you're locking up those anarchist hoodlums, might as well lock up the long haired pinko commies too. Then it will be a utopia of cranky old white guys.
:D
I'm with TreeSpeed, 100%.
Well, at least the part I quoted. ;)
Serendipper
How is it causing more problems? CM happens during rush hour in major metropolises and give the right of way to emergency vehicles.
palmertires
There should be a better way to make a statement like their's. Causing more problems isn't usually a good way to solve one.
What problems are the rides causing?
Scooper
There should be a better way to make a statement like their's. Causing more problems isn't usually a good way to solve one.
I agree.
San Francisco is a tolerant city and is one of the most bicycle friendly cities in North America. The San Francisco Bicycle Coalition has been successful in working with city government to create bike lanes on most of the city's thoroughfares and more are being created all the time. My own politics are progressive and civil libertarian, but the havoc created by critical mass does nothing but alienate most of the population.
Bicyclists are obligated to obey the traffic laws like everyone else, but the critical mass participants seem to feel that because of their numbers, they are somehow exempt from the obligation to obey the law, and the result is motor vehicle gridlock and a lot of pissed off commuters.
Scooper
What problems are the rides causing?
Gridlock at rush hour. The critical mass cyclists STOP in the middle of busy intersections for several light changes, riding around in circles and raising hell like they're all on drugs (which wouldn't surprise me).
Machka
What problems are the rides causing?
Because those rides block traffic, they steal income from people who need to drive for a living. My ex used to be a courier, and when they had CMs in the city where we lived, we lost most of a day's pay out of the deal ... and with no recourse! Those cyclists weren't about to drop by with a cheque to make up for what they had stolen from us.
Not only that but when the cyclists start damaging property and vehicles, someone has to clean it up or pay for the damages. And if the police have to step in to stop them/arrest them/jail them, who do you think pays for that? You do ... because you're a tax payer. So those cyclists are costing YOU more money too.
Because of things like that CM's purpose backfires. Instead of being pro-cycling, more and more people become anti-cycling. Many of the people in that city where this was going on would have happily run over most of the cyclists they encountered on a daily basis, and I know that part of their antagonism toward cyclists was because of the CMs (they told me). In fact, after being robbed of a few days income, if I weren't a cyclist, I would have been tempted to run over a few cyclists myself!!
I think there are much better, less offensive and distructive, ways to promote cycling. After all, don't we want to make cycling seem like a pleasant, good thing to do, not a terrible and harmful thing? Don't we want to make cyclists seem like nice people, not thieves and vandals?
I think those who plan these CMs would do well to direct their planning to more constructive things.
Pizza Man
Yes, my heart goes out to those poor people caught in traffic during "rush hour".
Whoever causes someone else to sit in their car for an extra 5 or 10 minutes should be thrown in jail for the rest of their life!
I fully support the critical mass idea of being a large group on a peaceful ride, but I do agree that there are always a few bad apples in the CM rides that give the rest a bad name. Those who flagarantly break the law during the rides should be cited, or even arrested if they are vandalizing or destroying property, but maybe a life sentence is juuuuust a bit harsh.
A very simple way for most people to avoid critical mass is to not drive downtown between 6 PM and 8PM on the last Friday of the month. Too bad they don't have commuter trains that run underground and ferries that go across the bay so people wouldn't have to drive their cars into downtown San Francisco. Oh, wait they do, problem solved.
Yes, I know that not everyone can take public transit or ride a bike to work, but about 95% of those who drive in downtown SF could get there by some means other than driving.
I think the claims that some people lose a whole days pay is a bit exaggerated. Are there critical mass rides in other cities that lock cars in place for 6-8 hours straight?
Machka
A very simple way for most people to avoid critical mass is to not drive downtown between 6 PM and 8PM on the last Friday of the month. Too bad they don't have commuter trains that run underground and ferries that go across the bay so people wouldn't have to drive their cars into downtown San Francisco. Oh, wait they do, problem solved.
Yes, I know that not everyone can take public transit or ride a bike to work, but about 95% of those who drive in downtown SF could get there by some means other than driving.
I think the claims that some people lose a whole days pay is a bit exaggerated. Are there critical mass rides in other cities that lock cars in place for 6-8 hours straight?
The CMs where I lived started sometime shortly after noon and went to about 6 pm ... that's the busiest part of the day. And it is pretty hard for those who drive for a living to avoid the downtown area when that's where they NEED TO GO.
Cravin
Just schedule a Death race 2000 on the same day as CM that will get rid of the Anarchists and cranky old white guys problem solved. :)
Laika
Gridlock at rush hour.
Which is a shame, because you never see motor vehicles doing that during rush hour.
Laika
The CMs where I lived started sometime shortly after noon and went to about 6 pm ... that's the busiest part of the day. And it is pretty hard for those who drive for a living to avoid the downtown area when that's where they NEED TO GO.
I'd like to know where this is, exactly, as I've never, ever heard of a six-hour cm starting at noon.
mosplat
critical mass rides can be very positive bike advocacy events.
but only when the riders show the same respect for the road and its occupants
that people should expect from all vehicles on the road.
to me, the idea of critical mass is to reinforce that cyclists need a spot on the road as well.
we take up only as much room as we need, and follow the traffic laws like everyone else.
the ride is to support our presence so on the road we get the respect we deserve.
but you only get respect by showing respect.
in a recent critical mass i participated in one rider decided to ride slowly in front of a bus,
while there were two lanes and the riders only needed one.
there were no other motor vehicles on this particular road at this time.
the rider acted as if that was what we're supposed to do.
in my opinion this is very reckless, selfish, and counterproductive.
it's all about happy coexistence.
that's my take anyway.
Scooper
I fully support the critical mass idea of being a large group on a peaceful ride, but I do agree that there are always a few bad apples in the CM rides that give the rest a bad name. Those who flagarantly break the law during the rides should be cited, or even arrested if they are vandalizing or destroying property, but maybe a life sentence is juuuuust a bit harsh.
OK. I admit to a bit of hyperbole when I said we should lock 'em all up and throw away the key. I don't have a problem with large group rides, but I have a big problem when substantial numbers of the participants intentionally violate the law and block motor vehicle traffic operating within the law. It's not just "a few bad apples", either.
A very simple way for most people to avoid critical mass is to not drive downtown between 6 PM and 8PM on the last Friday of the month. Too bad they don't have commuter trains that run underground and ferries that go across the bay so people wouldn't have to drive their cars into downtown San Francisco. Oh, wait they do, problem solved.
This is nonsense. Law-abiding motorists have the same right to use the roadway as bicyclists and shouldn't have to put up with being inconvenienced by bikers who don't observe traffic lights. Whether or not there are alternative ways to commute is completely irrelevant.
Yes, I know that not everyone can take public transit or ride a bike to work, but about 95% of those who drive in downtown SF could get there by some means other than driving.
So?
I think the claims that some people lose a whole days pay is a bit exaggerated. Are there critical mass rides in other cities that lock cars in place for 6-8 hours straight?
It makes no difference whether the claims are exaggerated or not, the fact is that the motorists are operating their vehicles legally and are being delayed and inconvenienced by bicyclists who aren't. It's not that complicated.
Scooper
critical mass rides can be very positive bike advocacy events.
but only when the riders show the same respect for the road and its occupants
that people should expect from all vehicles on the road.
to me, the idea of critical mass is to reinforce that cyclists need a spot on the road as well.
we take up only as much room as we need, and follow the traffic laws like everyone else.
the ride is to support our presence so on the road we get the respect we deserve.
but you only get respect by showing respect.
in a recent critical mass i participated in one rider decided to ride slowly in front of a bus,
while there were two lanes and the riders only needed one.
there were no other motor vehicles on this particular road at this time.
the rider acted as if that was what we're supposed to do.
in my opinion this is very reckless, selfish, and counterproductive.
it's all about happy coexistence.
that's my take anyway.
I completely agree.
Scooper
Just schedule a Death race 2000 on the same day as CM that will get rid of the Anarchists and cranky old white guys problem solved. :)
:)
"Old white guy", mea culpa.
"Cranky", not I. ;)
Machka
I'd like to know where this is, exactly, as I've never, ever heard of a six-hour cm starting at noon.
It was in Winnipeg ... but they don't run them anymore, and haven't for several years because they caused so many problems the critical masses were banned by the city. I think once in a while a group of militant cyclists try to hold one, but when a grand total of 2 or 3 of them show up, it doesn't have much impact. Which is a good thing. The last thing Winnipeg needs is more reason to hate cyclists ... they hate them enough as it is.
Pizza Man
The CMs where I lived started sometime shortly after noon and went to about 6 pm ... that's the busiest part of the day. And it is pretty hard for those who drive for a living to avoid the downtown area when that's where they NEED TO GO.
I am only familliar with the SF CM's which are only once a month and start after 6PM (~6:15). Since it's always on a Friday, I would think that well over 50% of those who drove in to work would be out of the downtown area before 6:15.
I was mostly replying to Scooper, who is also from San Francisco.
Yes, law abiding motorists do have the same rights as cyclists, I think what the cyclists are trying to demonstrate is that they have the same vehicular rights as motorists, something that many drivers seem to be unaware of. I could list pages of examples of this, but it's getting late.
I think the intent of critical mass is not to break laws, but disrupt traffic by creating traffic hence the "we are traffic" quote).
mosplat
I think the intent of critical mass is not to break laws, but disrupt traffic by creating traffic hence the "we are traffic" quote).
traffic is a by-product of a large group of riders on the road.
i don't think it should be, as some might consider it, a goal.
bunnywrench
traffic is a by-product of a large group of riders on the road.
i don't think it should be, as some might consider it, a goal.
"we are traffic" is more of a response to those who accuse bicyclists of "slowing traffic"
critical mass doesn't take up anymore than a few minutes per intersection/block until it moves on. some people just need to learn patience. For those of you who are anal about laws, it is the law for a group of bicyclists whose number constitute a "critical mass" to stay as a group to cross an intersection (almost acting as one large vehicle) even if the light turns red, for the safety of all the riders.
It's a beautiful thing to see our streets at least temporarily taken over by bicycles instead of gas guzzlers. I feel sorry for all those who can't understand that.
http://www.critical-mass.org
grapetonix
I attended one once and didn't find it to be a positive sum up. People were just breaking too many traffic laws (running red, being generally disruptive; and with "disruptive" in this context I do not include slowing down the car traffic) for it to be credible. Also, this particular event felt a tad bit too politically biassed rather than a biking advocacy one.
mosplat
I feel sorry for all those who can't understand that.
i think you misunderstand me.
i've been riding and helping to facilitate critical masses at home and away for several years now.
and safety (for riders and motorists) is one of my highest priorities (next to fun and bike advocacy).
yes when the group is big enough we will have to hold the intersection and get the whole group across.
i am usually one of the guys making sure the group stays safe and together.
my biggest concern here, after encountering much of it firsthand,
is the recklessness some riders come to critical mass with.
these riders create conflict with motorists, rather than let the ride speak for itself.
these riders can make critical mass more dangerous for themselves and other riders,
and this is something i do not approve of.
pedex
While many are getting on their high horse here and dismissing CM as a bad thing lets look at some of the alternatives and what bike advocates normally do. Typical large group ride, TOSRV for example, thousands of riders assemble downtown and promptly break traffic laws all over until they get out of town and can get strung out into various single file groups riding on rural roads. Then there's the typical weekly group rides that happen locally. I dont know what its like in other cities, but in Columbus at least ALL these rides happen outside of the city proper, mostly on rural roads. So, as a rider unless you ride solo, there's absolutely no outlet or way to be visible in large numbers to traffic where it counts, in urban areas where the cars are. I am aware not everyone avoids urban areas like the plague, but lets be honest here, the majority of riders do, and most group rides certainly do. I ride for a living downtown, I know exactly how many of the same riders I see all the time, groups bigger than 2 or 3 is pretty rare unless it CM. More to advocacy than just preaching it, it involves doing it, best place to do that is where the traffic is, not avoid it. My 2 cents.
Dchiefransom
http://www.critical-mass.org[/url]
Could you please quote that part of the California Vehicle Code, or provide a reference to legal precedent? On big club rides of 30-40 riders, we always stop when the light turns red, and this is upheld by the certified Road I cycling instructors.
By the way, how did you do in court the other day? Is there a way other than online to help you with expenses?
palmertires
It was in Winnipeg ... but they don't run them anymore, and haven't for several years because they caused so many problems the critical masses were banned by the city. I think once in a while a group of militant cyclists try to hold one, but when a grand total of 2 or 3 of them show up, it doesn't have much impact. Which is a good thing. The last thing Winnipeg needs is more reason to hate cyclists ... they hate them enough as it is.
So it seems that the rides tend to be more controversial/cause more havoc in places that are already not too tolerant of cyclists? From what I have been reading online about this, it seems that becoming a visual mass is part of the point...perhaps the trouble escalates because the driver cyclist relationship is already strained? Winnipeg doesn't sound as though it is a nice place to be...for a cyclist.
Mr. Miskatonic
Critical Mass is obviously a sign of massive inefficiency. It takes dozens, if not hundreds of riders, to block an intersection. Darn it, yo can do the same thing with just two cars.
Obviously, critical mass needs to be banned, hounded like the Communist party in 1950's, its members set on fire, and any person who has ever seen a critical mass must have their eyes poked out.
In all seriousness, I may not approce of much of what goes on with CM, but I find the reaction to them is blown way out of proportion. I'd also venture to say that for every driver that gets encounters CM, there will be a 100 or so who complain about CM.
scarry
Quit your whining. I was there Friday nite and it was great. I'm a 51 year old anarchist hoodlum (not).
Actually, I'm a mild mannered engineer.
You havn't got a clue.
What a great question!
In San Francisco, the effect of critical mass is that it totally screws up commute traffic on the last Friday of the month. The participating cyclists, as far as I can tell, are anarchist hoodlums who relish in raising hell, disobeying traffic laws, and disrupting motor vehicle traffic. They make me ashamed to be a bicyclist. I wish the cops would round them all up, put 'em in jail, and throw the keys away.
Thor29
Quit your whining. I was there Friday nite and it was great. I'm a 51 year old anarchist hoodlum (not).
Actually, I'm a mild mannered engineer.
You havn't got a clue.
I second that, with a hearty cheer for all my friends who were out there this Friday in San Francisco. It is a beautiful thing to behold and even more beautiful to participate in. And contrary to one cranky old man's whining, I have actually witnessed lots of car drivers who cheer us on. (And some who need a lesson in patience).
Critical Mass needs no overt political agenda. It is really quite simple: we show up; we ride. All you naysayers need to relax. If it isn't your cup of tea, then don't participate. The SFBC does a fine job in fighting for cyclist's rights in SF, I don't think that's really what CM is about. I see it as more of a celebration than a protest.
scarry
I like how all the sidewalk diners and valet dudes along Columbus street are cheering us on.
Maybe it's because they are not having car exhaust spewed in their faces while they are eating diner, for a short while, anyway. :)
I second that, with a hearty cheer for all my friends who were out there this Friday in San Francisco. It is a beautiful thing to behold and even more beautiful to participate in. And contrary to one cranky old man's whining, I have actually witnessed lots of car drivers who cheer us on. (And some who need a lesson in patience).
Critical Mass needs no overt political agenda. It is really quite simple: we show up; we ride. All you naysayers need to relax. If it isn't your cup of tea, then don't participate. The SFBC does a fine job in fighting for cyclist's rights in SF, I don't think that's really what CM is about. I see it as more of a celebration than a protest.
mexredknee
I haven't been riding more than a few months and didn't know what a Critical Mass was until I read this post and all its links. So this is just a newbie's POV.
I read that in a CM that the group stops traffic so every cyclist can get across. I disagree with this behavior only because as a driver I sometimes travel in groups when going camping. I have never stopped traffic with my car because I wanted to get across and stay in the group. Also if others in the group had to separate because of the traffic lights I either waited for them (so they could follow me and not get lost) or I had an understanding to meet at a particular junction. Anyhow, I don't understand why a group of bicyclists can't just break when the light turns yellow and regroup later? Cars do. Are bikes somehow above the law and cars are not?
Just a thought.
amigo
En Argentina no tenemos "critical mass" pero tenemos algo muy parecido: "movilizaciones populares". Lo único que hacen es bloquear las calles, molestando las actividades de todo aquel que quiere tener una vida tranquila.
Savas
Sounds frigging stupid for bicyclists to engage in this activity. This sounds like something anarchists do in between World Trade Organization and political convention protests. Call it Critical Mess. Get a life.
Martyr
Sounds frigging stupid for bicyclists to engage in this activity.
riding bikes? stupidest thing i've ever heard. anyway - there is very little evidence that anyone around here rides bikes. that's a malicious rumour at best.
CommuterRun
CM isn't about cycling advocacy. CM is all about a childish, fleeting, feeling of power. It makes the participants feel like a big-shot to know that one day a month they can band together and totally screw-up traffic for all other road users.
Laika
CM is all about a childish, fleeting, feeling of power.
Kind of like hit-and-run flaming on messageboards, huh?
The Wheelist
CM isn't about cycling advocacy.
Critical Mass IS about cycling advocacy.
CM is all about a childish, fleeting, feeling of power.
Perhaps. Perhaps it's a fleeting moment when the all-consuming power of the car is somewhat reduced.
It makes the participants feel like a big-shot to know that one day a month they can band together and totally screw-up traffic for all other road users.
It makes the participants feel proud to ride bikes. Not scared to ride, like they are for the rest of the month. It's a feeling of relief to know that the cars CAN see you and HAVE to take notice, not cut you up or run you down like normal.
It galls me to hear 'supposed' cyclists running down CM. Get into the city on your bike, any day of the month. It's no fun. It's bloody frightening in fact. Such intolerance everywhere.
Admittedly, there are a few nutters who break the rules, deliberately piss-off drivers, or block bus lanes. The way to combat these idiots is to join the ride and reprimand them, not get back into your toxic-box-on-wheels and complain without dicrimination about 'frigging stupid cyclists'.
Finally, Grid Lock - not a term I've ever associated solely with cyclists. In fact, it's a term I've NEVER associated with cyclists. I'm pretty sure cars can cause gridlock without our help.
mosplat
right on.
ride on.
scarry
Finally, Grid Lock - not a term I've ever associated solely with cyclists. In fact, it's a term I've NEVER associated with cyclists. I'm pretty sure cars can cause gridlock without our help.
Pretty much every work day of the year.
Here's todays report from the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge were bikes are not allowed.
Note the traffic speed of 9 mph. Slower than Bike speed.
Incident: CHP : Disabled vehicle on I-80 W Westbound before Treasure Island Rd (San Francisco) Left lane blocked Expect delays
Advice:
On street: I-80 W
Start time: 11/2/05 10:08 am
Estimated duration: 30 min.
Last updated:
Route: I-80 W
From: BAY BRIDGE - CANTILEVER SECTION
To: TREASURE ISLAND RD
City: San Francisco
Speed limit: 50
Traffic speed: 9
Dchiefransom
9 mph isn't bad. Getting to the booths at the toll plaza, now THAT"S BAD !!!!!
Entrepeneurs should get out there between lanes with a catering truck. You could order breakfast as you came up to the back of the truck, and it would be cooked by the time you got to the front.
CommuterRun
Activities such as blocking intersections until all riders in the group get through regardless of the light are total BS, not to mention illegal. Like it or not, each invidual bike is a vehicle, not the group. This is a prime example of mob mentality. Combined with the people participating who are regular scofflaws, these activities label the entire group, and by extension all cyclists, by the people who don't bicycle and may not be familiar with the intention of CM.
The stigma that CM projects is one of many reasons why all my riding is done solo.
It makes the participants feel proud to ride bikes.
Can't say that I have ever felt proud on a bike. Happy, free, care-free, are all accurate. Even ecstatic at times. Can't say that pride ever accurately fit.
Not scared to ride, like they are for the rest of the month. It's a feeling of relief to know that the cars CAN see you and HAVE to take notice, not cut you up or run you down like normal.
Ride applying VC principles and the fear dissipates with experience.
It galls me to hear 'supposed' cyclists running down CM. Get into the city on your bike, any day of the month. It's no fun. It's bloody frightening in fact. Such intolerance everywhere.
See above.
And yes, some will remember seeing posts made by me about currently riding rural highways, and while this is all very nice, it is something that I caused to happen relatively recently in my commuting.
Mr. Miskatonic
Activities such as blocking intersections until all riders in the group get through regardless of the light are total BS, not to mention illegal.
How do you feel about funeral processions, then? They are lots more common than CM. They pretty much take over any road (and intersections) they are on.