Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - The Over 200 Pounds Thread: Clydesdale-O-Rama

Any of you use American Classic Hurricanes? They are pretty remarkably light at 1545 grams for 32 spoke heavy duty wheels...

6'1" - 250 lbs

This is Danny from Vacaville, about midway between SF and Sacramento. I'm new to cycling as I have spent the last 6 years running off and on (but ran enough to train for and complete a marathon in 2003). But at 250 lbs, I find that the wear and tear on my joints is too much for that weight.

So I am trying to take up cycling to see if my body likes that better. I did cycle for cross-training during the early stages of my marathon training, but I got hit by a car and broke both bones in my forearm (right up near the wrist), so I have been a little skittish getting back into cycling.

Being new to the sport, the I just grabbed my son's MTB (yes it was from a department store [Sportmart]) and I started riding that. Those knobby tires aren't worth a poop on the road I found out, so I grabbed some 26x2.0 road tires and I have been on those ever since. I am getting about 35-40 miles per week in right now.

I have been looking at getting a road bike, but wasn't sure if I should spend the $$$ on a low end "legitimate" bike (about $530 or so from what I can see) or go to the 'dreaded' department store and pick up one of those Kent GMC Denali's for $150.

After reading through this forum and doing other internet searches I am pretty sure what the response would be if I were to ask, so I won't.

But what I will ask is maybe some ideas on the low-end 'real' road bikes. Is there a place to go to get an idea of what the low-end 'real' bikes are?

I have heard that many of the frames are all built out in China, or Taiwan, and that the components that are put on them are the big difference. Is this true?

Is a Fuji Newest 1.0 (or 2.0) similar to the low-end Trek's (just $100's cheaper)? That's what I was told at one of the LBS went I went in to look at the bikes (they had Fuji's in stock).

Danny

Hello, my name is Brad and I am a clydesdale.

With my new job I just started riding again three weeks ago by riding to the train station (3 miles one way) then I walk to my office in the loop from the train (1.1 miles one way). When I started I weighed in at 240 now three weeks in I am at 230. I am currently riding a FREE mountain bike, but I will be buying a Trek for me and my wife at village cycle in Chicago latter this month. I am planning on getting a 7300FX if they have any in stock and setting it up with a rack, fenders, and all for my daily commute (my backpack is burning me up).

Needless to say that with just some exercise I have been able to drop some weight. I cannot wait until I can fully start exercising and adding to this a change to my eating habits.

Thanks,

Brad

6'1" - 250 lbs

This is Danny from Vacaville,

yada
yada
yada

Danny

Danny- The same factory can build frames for a serious bicycle company and for CrapMart. That does not make them the same frame. The quality that goes into the tubes alone is significant. Quality control on the welds too...

The difference between decent components and the garbage they put on Crap-Mart bikes is night and day.

Then you also have the issue of who put together your bike and whether they did it right or not...

Oh, and who will fix the bike when it needs repairs/tune ups/etc.

If I had only X dollars to spend on a bike and $X was not enough to get a nice road bike from a local bike shop, I would put that money into a decent used bike. Either through a local bike shop or on-line. (Be careful on line for stolen bikes.)

I know it seems really snobby on here sometimes when people talk about Local bike shops (lbs) vs. mega stores but it is experience and frustration more than elitism. (The true elitist road riders dont read the clydesdale thread...)

I have to say, you are really doing well for just getting into cycling. I am 5.10 and 202lbs, I also used to work out until I injured my shoulder. Now its really degenerated to the point where I can't really swim, dive, or do much with wieghts where I have to lift above shoulder hieght, so I started cycling.
It took me at least a month to get up to 20 miles. I lost 26 pounds of blub cycling. I aim to loose another 25 or so. My single best upgrade after buying the road bike was the shoes and pedels. Awesome delivery of power, especially climbing.

- John

Trek Pilot 2.1 SPA 2006
Trek 7500 FX 2005

Anyone going through problems finding cycling clothing that doesnt show every single roll of fat. I don't mind the shorts, I use the Perl Izumi bib shorts. Put the Jerseys, whoa! I find myself just throwing on a t -shirt, but they have none of the wicking qualitys that the really nice cycling Jerseys have. Do they make a jersey for people that are a little pudgy around the middle? I found a decent sleevless shirt at Macy;s that was made out of a wicking material and in an Xlarge size it doesnt look bad. The stuff I have looked at in LBS are just skin tight.

Anyone going through problems finding cycling clothing that doesnt show every single roll of fat. I don't mind the shorts, I use the Perl Izumi bib shorts. Put the Jerseys, whoa! I find myself just throwing on a t -shirt, but they have none of the wicking qualitys that the really nice cycling Jerseys have. Do they make a jersey for people that are a little pudgy around the middle? I found a decent sleevless shirt at Macy;s that was made out of a wicking material and in an Xlarge size it doesnt look bad. The stuff I have looked at in LBS are just skin tight.
Target (and others) carry whicking shirts from Champion. They are great.

The biggest benefit to jerseys, imho, is the back pocket(s).

Anyone going through problems finding cycling clothing that doesnt show every single roll of fat. I don't mind the shorts, I use the Perl Izumi bib shorts. Put the Jerseys, whoa! I find myself just throwing on a t -shirt, but they have none of the wicking qualitys that the really nice cycling Jerseys have. Do they make a jersey for people that are a little pudgy around the middle? I found a decent sleevless shirt at Macy;s that was made out of a wicking material and in an Xlarge size it doesnt look bad. The stuff I have looked at in LBS are just skin tight.

Specialized makes a jersey that's a >bit< looser than the standard ones... I can't find a model name, it justs says "Specialized founded in 1974" in the front lower corner. They had dark gray and a blue. It has a zipper rear pocket. Hope that helps somewhat...

There supose to be that tight. I have god know how many jersyies in XL sizes.
John 1961

For larger sized jerseys and shorts, go here.

http://www.aerotechdesigns.com/

All - I would like to thank all fellow Clydesdales as this has been a great forum to gain some courage from. I have been following this for a while and am going to pull the trigger on a bike this weekend. Being 5'11" 350 it has taken alot of courage just to want to walk into a store. I have my eye on a couple bikes and have talked to a few sales people and will update you on Monday and let you know what worked best for me and my goals.

Hello. This is my first post on these boards, just found them yesterday.

I am 5'10", and about 225. I have played the up and down game with my weight for ever. I just turned 40 last week.

My bike is a Trek 1200 Aluminum I bought new in 1989, and still runs pretty good. My first summer on it I went from 189 down to 160. Then back to college and beer and pizza. Next summer, went from 185 to 150.

I am now getting back in to triathlon. Will be doing an olympic distance in Jacksonville, FL next month. Am considering a new bike, and am still a huge fan of Trek.

Anyone of you Clydesdales ever ride a Carbon trek? I am considering a 5200 or Madone. The guy in the shop said the Treks can handle up to a 300 pound man, even on the Bontrager wheels with few spokes.

Just wondering if you have any experience in this?

Thanks, John

All - I would like to thank all fellow Clydesdales as this has been a great forum to gain some courage from. I have been following this for a while and am going to pull the trigger on a bike this weekend. Being 5'11" 350 it has taken alot of courage just to want to walk into a store. I have my eye on a couple bikes and have talked to a few sales people and will update you on Monday and let you know what worked best for me and my goals.

Tell me about it. When I bought my road bike, there was so many spandex wearing guys around, it look like the trapeze convention is in town.

And post lots of pics when you get it.

As some people are asking about bikes/wheels. I started my riding at 265 pounds, on a Cannondale R500. over 1000 miles on it now since Feb, 40 pounds lighter, and the bike has not had a single problem.
If you shop around, you can pick one up for right around $800. The wheels have held up much better than I expected. I ride a lot of bike/run paths, lots of bumps and holes, curbs when it crosses streets, and they are still true.

I looked this Thread over and seems I belong here,
218LB @6'3" ,, 2 years ago I was 248LB and I said OX DUNG(Thats Bible for BS),
I got my old 1984 JacKal out and give it to my kid and got me a size 23 Hard Rock.
I wore out the knobbys and bought Crossroad tires.
I use it for the road,,,, and got me a FSR for the non-paved trips.
I am firming up good but can't seem to get below 215.
I don't never want to weigh 165 like the smaller frame guys, but I would like to be around 200.

By the way, Thanks to you guys the post pics and write all this fun stuff to read.

Specialized makes a jersey that's a >bit< looser than the standard ones... I can't find a model name, it justs says "Specialized founded in 1974" in the front lower corner. They had dark gray and a blue. It has a zipper rear pocket. Hope that helps somewhat...



I still do, I wear the XXL $6.00 very breathable shirts for m Family Dallar, the look like bike jersys.
And they are loose enough to hide the years of Jims Breakfast.

I still do, I wear the XXL $6.00 very breathable shirts for m Family Dallar, the look like bike jersys.
And they are loose enough to hide the years of Jims Breakfast.
Clydesdale Jersies are available from Aerotech Designs (http://www.aerotechdesigns.com) in up to 4XL in a relaxed touring cut.http://www.gifmaniacos.com/Asterix/asterix01.gif

great threads all of the replies were good. what is a good cross for a guy who is 6'5 250? i want a bike that shifts easly and will do good on sidewalks and will take the burn of bumps and bruises of pot holes and going on and off the sidewalks. i want something that is good quality and bakced by good warrenty that i wont worry about. i alkso want a big cockpit so i am not cramped up. any thoughts?

great threads all of the replies were good. what is a good cross for a guy who is 6'5 250? i want a bike that shifts easly and will do good on sidewalks and will take the burn of bumps and bruises of pot holes and going on and off the sidewalks. i want something that is good quality and bakced by good warrenty that i wont worry about. i alkso want a big cockpit so i am not cramped up. any thoughts?

I have a Kona Dew for that type of work, running around town, vacations, towing my daughter in her trailer. I love it to death, shifts rides so nicely. plus they are priced nicely enough not to give you a heartattack if you wreck it or thiefs get it.

Does anyone know where to get clydesdale jerseys? Not clydesdale sizes, but one's with a clydesdale on it. Not something fruity, but something that shows some clydesdale pride.

Does anyone know where to get clydesdale jerseys? Not clydesdale sizes, but one's with a clydesdale on it. Not something fruity, but something that shows some clydesdale pride.

LOL - I was just thinking the same thing earlier tonite. There's gotta be something out there for us somewhere.

Dan

what are your thoughts on bianchi cross concept for us horses? i know this is the wrong forum but they seem stable. pricy but stable. do you see the benefits. not only big and tall for clothes or nordstroms for normal clothes but now i gotta get a big and tall bike as well.

All - I would like to thank all fellow Clydesdales as this has been a great forum to gain some courage from. I have been following this for a while and am going to pull the trigger on a bike this weekend. Being 5'11" 350 it has taken alot of courage just to want to walk into a store. I have my eye on a couple bikes and have talked to a few sales people and will update you on Monday and let you know what worked best for me and my goals.

I found that just being honest with them and telling them up front that you understand the stresses that you will put on the bike goes a long way. That way the salesman is more comfortable talking with you. It can be very hard going in but just be yourself and if they treat you bad or look down on you, go somewhere else.

LOL - I was just thinking the same thing earlier tonite. There's gotta be something out there for us somewhere.

Dan
somewhere on this site -- I think in this thread -- there was a brief discussion about creating a clydesdale jersey. I submitted a text line for it which is now my signature...

Nothing more ever happened with the jersey thread.

If people are serious I can look into it. How much can the silk screening cost? Clubs do it for rides...

I'll start a new thread titled "Clydesdale Jersey" and link it back to this reply...

edit:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=2752702#post2752702

Well I did it, after riding about 15 different makes/models and setups since the weekend, I decided on the Lemond Sarthe. I loved the feel of the ride and had a great guy at our local lbs spend over 3 hours with me in the last 2 days going through different bikes and setups to make sure I will be happy. I pick it up on Friday and so I wil have pics this weekend. It was a very interesting experience as I shopped 5 different lbs and a few of them went almost "out of thier way" to ignore the 350 pound guy with money hanging out of his pockets. At one in particular I stood near the road bike section for 8 minutes before I walked out and actually watched employees make themselves look busy as I was the only one in the shop and no one wanted to help the clydesdale out. The guy getting me into riding wants us to ride there on my new bike Saturday to tell the manager this and thank his employees for thier "inattention" as I found a great ride and help elsewhere.

I can't wait to see the pics of your new bike...F"#(#K those other bike shops and the horse..or clydesdale they came in on. Pisses me off when us big folks are discriminated against. Enjoy the new bike and see ya on the other side (of being a clydesdale that is!)

what are your thoughts on bianchi cross concept for us horses? i know this is the wrong forum but they seem stable. pricy but stable. do you see the benefits. not only big and tall for clothes or nordstroms for normal clothes but now i gotta get a big and tall bike as well.

Love it! I am 5'11", 283 lbs. I have this bike:

http://gianni.bianchiusa.com/2002/site/bikes/cross/05_bergamo.html

Bought it in '03, and it sat it my garage until mid-may. In the last 6 weeks, I have put 400 miles on the bike. Took it in for a minor tuneup at 300 miles (mainly because it sat so long) and the wheels were still perfectly true, even after taking some rough road with my weight. I love it.

http://grundler.smugmug.com/photos/69915661-M.jpg

There is nothing quite like a clyde in Lycra! :)

How do you like the shifting? Does it really work or does it feel gimmicky?

The Pearl Izumi Pivot Jersey has good wicking material, three pockets (one zip for secure items) and is a looser cut than other styles I've looked at. Zip at the front is nice to have, and they have it up to XXL. It is way bigger than another that I've tried from the same company at the same size. Kind of hangs off you instead of clinging to you, if that makes any sense.

I've just kind of made myself get comfortable with looking like an amusing freak.

How do you like the shifting? Does it really work or does it feel gimmicky?

Overall, I love it. It works very well, and is very responsive. Plus, with the SRAM DualDrive, you can shift the equivalent of your front chainrings while you are sitting still. That really helps when you are in a high gear and have to make an abrupt stop. You can then shift to a low gear before you start to move again.

As for the cons, I got a puncture on the rear the other day and had no idea how to remove it with the extra equipment. After getting a ride back, I looked it the manual. It actually comes off very easy, and I now carry the instruction page with me. The DualDrive also means that it will never be able to go on a trainer, if that is important to you.

On a side note, I weighed in this morning... 277.4. Going down!

The Pearl Izumi Pivot Jersey has good wicking material, three pockets (one zip for secure items) and is a looser cut than other styles I've looked at.

Thanks for the information. It is always good to know about "large" jerseys. Out of curiosity, based on my pic a few posts above, do you think it would be fine for me? I know that is a hard question, but I am trying to gauge how "large" the XL is.

http://jeremm.free.fr/bart_obese.jpg

Thanks for the information. It is always good to know about "large" jerseys. Out of curiosity, based on my pic a few posts above, do you think it would be fine for me? I know that is a hard question, but I am trying to gauge how "large" the XL is.

Picked up a couple today. Perfect! Much thanks for the recommendation.

Picked up a couple today. Perfect! Much thanks for the recommendation.

Sweet. I'm thinking of getting them too.

http://jeremm.free.fr/bart_obese.jpg
Your sensitivity and tact are underwhelming.

Your sensitivity and tact are underwhelming.

I assumed it was his self portrait... :p

Right on DavisClydesdale... glad those worked for you!

Congrats to everyone who's dropping pounds, I haven't been able to drop any at all, and I've been cranking away this summer. People are telling me I look like I'm losing the weight, but the scale doesn't show any of it. Still 215, but feeling stronger each time out... hopefully fat turning into muscle, but that might be too optimistic.

I've only dropped about 13 pounds (and the damn scale won't keep going down! :( ) but my pants that used to be tight at 42" are now hanging off me and another pair at 40 won't stay up for anything. Another shirt of mine that actually never fit fits great now.

It's not what the scale says but how the clothes fit. Also all the cranking can't be bad :)

I also find my weight will inch up or drop down. While the going up can creep the going down will happen almost in a few pounds at a shot, then stay there again. Not sure if that's the same for everyone though.

Also definately check out fitday.com or another type of calorie counting device. I was really surprised at how some things I ate regularly were really bad and others that I thought was bad really aren't. Try replacing pasta with whole wheat pasta (or whole wheat pancakes, waffles, bread, etc...) and white rice with brown rice. You'll feel so much fuller after eating half as much. Just made myself a bowl of Fettucini Alfredo using 1% milk, whole wheat pasta, a package of frozen veggies, and a few slices of bacon in the sauce for flavor. 2 cups of that: 414 calories and 9 grams of fat. If that was regular pasta I'd still be eating! Add a slice of bacon into 'diet' type dishes - one slice doesn't add all that much overall but it will make it taste good. Conversely avoid cheese (though low fat cheese is OK). Amazing how much fat is in one freakin' slice of cheese - about 9 grams of fat. Between one slice of cheese or a big bowl of pasta guess where my choice would be.

I've only dropped about 13 pounds (and the damn scale won't keep going down! :( ) but my pants that used to be tight at 42" are now hanging off me and another pair at 40 won't stay up for anything. Another shirt of mine that actually never fit fits great now.

It's not what the scale says but how the clothes fit. Also all the cranking can't be bad :)

I also find my weight will inch up or drop down. While the going up can creep the going down will happen almost in a few pounds at a shot, then stay there again. Not sure if that's the same for everyone though.

Also definately check out fitday.com or another type of calorie counting device. I was really surprised at how some things I ate regularly were really bad and others that I thought was bad really aren't. Try replacing pasta with whole wheat pasta (or whole wheat pancakes, waffles, bread, etc...) and white rice with brown rice. You'll feel so much fuller after eating half as much. Just made myself a bowl of Fettucini Alfredo using 1% milk, whole wheat pasta, a package of frozen veggies, and a few slices of bacon in the sauce for flavor. 2 cups of that: 414 calories and 9 grams of fat. If that was regular pasta I'd still be eating! Add a slice of bacon into 'diet' type dishes - one slice doesn't add all that much overall but it will make it taste good. Conversely avoid cheese (though low fat cheese is OK). Amazing how much fat is in one freakin' slice of cheese - about 9 grams of fat. Between one slice of cheese or a big bowl of pasta guess where my choice would be.
if you can get past the initial "chick-ness" of it, Weight Watchers is pretty user friendly. I'm down ~60 pounds since I started WW less than a year ago.

Either way, exercise alone will not do it as you show. A big guys like one of us riding really hard for an hour hardly burns up three slices of pizza. Loosing weight is about controlling what you eat. The exercise will help and it will give you a cushion if you misbehave. But loosing and keeping weight off is about relearning how/what to eat.

Right on DavisClydesdale... glad those worked for you!

Congrats to everyone who's dropping pounds, I haven't been able to drop any at all, and I've been cranking away this summer. People are telling me I look like I'm losing the weight, but the scale doesn't show any of it. Still 215, but feeling stronger each time out... hopefully fat turning into muscle, but that might be too optimistic.
Superslomo, Don't sweat it! You are toning up, building bone and muscle mass as your fatty mass depletes. You may not be losing weight, but you ARE getting healthier!http://nic-nac-project.de/~killerdj/News/images/smilies/3dbiggrin3.gif

Even if you see no improvement in fat and weight, I am sure it is doing wonders for your cardiovascular health. Get that heart pounding on a regular basis! The weight and fat will eventually come off.

I also find my weight will inch up or drop down. While the going up can creep the going down will happen almost in a few pounds at a shot, then stay there again. Not sure if that's the same for everyone though.

I noticed that too. I weigh myself first thing every morning and record it in excel. If I graph it out, it looks like a stair case tipped slightly to the side. Little gains, big drop, little gains, big drop. I also have a column that is a 7-day moving average. I consider that to be my true weight as your weight can vary wildly from day to day based on many factors.

Your sensitivity and tact are underwhelming.


hahah i still laugh when i see that picture

I noticed that too. I weigh myself first thing every morning and record it in excel. If I graph it out, it looks like a stair case tipped slightly to the side. Little gains, big drop, little gains, big drop. I also have a column that is a 7-day moving average. I consider that to be my true weight as your weight can vary wildly from day to day based on many factors.

GEEK! But cool :beer:

I admit in fitday I won't put in the ups because they're depressing, so I only post losses. My graph looks better than yours (even if it's not as accurate) - HA! ;)

I also find my weight will inch up or drop down. While the going up can creep the going down will happen almost in a few pounds at a shot, then stay there again. Not sure if that's the same for everyone though.
I was wishing you had put your weight because I wanted to note that I was (or was not) lighter than Air...

Your post actually points to some intersting research I read a few years back. It has helped me in my battle to loose weight. (Down about 75# (from 48" to 42" waist) in a little under a year.)

You will plateau as you loose wieght at the same body mass percentages you stayed even at on your way up the weight gain ladder.

(It is actually more accurate as percentages than real weight because of muscle mass issues and the such (but it is pretty close for most people anyway...)

If you weighed 200 pounds for ten years. Then you put on a pound a month for two years, then stayed constant at 225# for a year before ballooning up to 275# over the next year. You will find it comparitively easier to loose that first fifty. Then your weight loss will kind of taper off, and you will stay steady until either you kick up your activity or enough time just passes and you start loosing again.

You will then drop the 25# pretty efficiently and then plateau again at 200#. It is kind of like the longer you stay at a weight/body mass the more your system thinks that is the "correct" weight for you. So what happens is when you hit that weight on the way down, your matabalism slows to correct for the lower calloric intake.

(The reasearch was done by the Rockefeller Institute here in NY if anyone wants to look it up. Reading the original will probably make more sense than the memory of a fat old numbers guy...)

That makes a lot of sense - and is probably what's going on with me.

My lightest with my frame was 180 when I was maybe a Junior in HS (and that low point probably didn't stay like for for more than a few months - I've always been on the bigger side). I used to landscape every day, would eat 10 bagels and still lost weight (man those were the days!). Stopped landscaping. Would fluctuage in the low 200's (220-250 range). About 7 years ago started going to school in the city. Weight would fluctuate more in the 230-250 range with a high of 280. Started swing dancing, weight went down to the 230's. Stopped (stupid jealous gf), weight back up to 280's. 10 months later decided to take it up again - but this time concentrate on all the fast dancing. Stayed mostly around 250. Was eating crap and hating life for a bit so up near the 275 mark. Decided me no gusta, brought in bike, counting calories (this was 4 months ago), the first 13 came off super easy. Very hard to ease below the 260 mark at the moment but clothes are fitting more like I"ve lost 20. Probably that whole BMI people throw around :)

Is a Cervelo soloist team a durable/comfortable ride? I've had my heart set on titanium but I'll be 50 before I can afford it. I've always thought alum to be harsh, a holdover from old C-dales. I'm 5'8, 240 and I'll do mostly 40-50 mile rides with an occasional century/triathlon.

I was wishing you had put your weight because I wanted to note that I was (or was not) lighter than Air...

Your post actually points to some intersting research I read a few years back. It has helped me in my battle to loose weight. (Down about 75# (from 48" to 42" waist) in a little under a year.)

You will plateau as you loose wieght at the same body mass percentages you stayed even at on your way up the weight gain ladder.

(It is actually more accurate as percentages than real weight because of muscle mass issues and the such (but it is pretty close for most people anyway...)

If you weighed 200 pounds for ten years. Then you put on a pound a month for two years, then stayed constant at 225# for a year before ballooning up to 275# over the next year. You will find it comparitively easier to loose that first fifty. Then your weight loss will kind of taper off, and you will stay steady until either you kick up your activity or enough time just passes and you start loosing again.

You will then drop the 25# pretty efficiently and then plateau again at 200#. It is kind of like the longer you stay at a weight/body mass the more your system thinks that is the "correct" weight for you. So what happens is when you hit that weight on the way down, your matabalism slows to correct for the lower calloric intake.

(The reasearch was done by the Rockefeller Institute here in NY if anyone wants to look it up. Reading the original will probably make more sense than the memory of a fat old numbers guy...)


That's pretty interesting. It makes sense - comes off in reverse order it was put on. Like when you load a moving truck and then unload it.

Well I wasn't going to join this forum but then I saw this thread and I just had to.
5'11'' 220lbs and I've been riding since I was about 12. Started out on a Columbus(1985), moved up to a Cannondale R500(1999), and currently riding a MBK Prospeed. Do I qualifly?:)

Well, after a couple years of struggling to find places I can easily get to for some singletrack, I'm selling my mtn. bike (and both my remaining BMX bikes from even before the mtn biking phase) and I'm getting a road bike. I've been living in kirsville for some time, and during this past summer I've had classes (I'm a student at Truman State University) and I work out in the evening and run in the mornings. I am beginning to remember how boring running is compared to biking, so I'm picking up a bike before fall semester (and some intense research for debate starts).

I decided to go for a Specialized Allez Elite Double. I'll be picking it up from a shop in St. Louis (Sunset Cyclery to be exact--good guys, I also used to ride with some guys who worked there from time to time). Anyway, I'll post some pics when I pick up the bike next week!