Commuting - puncture resistant tubes

I'm a commuting bike newbie and have recently purchased a new bike. I'm wondering - If puncture resistant tubes are useful in, well, resisting punctures :-), then why aren't they a standard feature? Is it that they're slightly heavier? Or is there some other reason such as cost etc? Thanks in advance.
:-)

Can't help you on the tube question. I've never used puncture resistant tubes but have had very good luck with tire liners. They are basically tough plastic strips that go between the tube and the tire. Since I tend to migrate tires from my race bike to my commute bike, this is a convenient and cost-effective solution for me.

Thanks Caloso, will keep those in mind for next visit to LBS
Cheers
:)

I'm not sure what kind of puncture-resistant tubes you're talking about. I think I've encountered (and used) two varieties.

One is the kind with thick rubber. Seems kind of silly to me, but what do I know? Better to use hard plastic (tuffy tire liners) because thicker rubber isn't harder to penetrate, it just has to be penetrated further. I think the rubber is only thicker around the non-rim side of the tube.

Second kind is the slime-filled kind. This kind stinks like mad when you let air out to, say, switch the tire to another wheel. These seem like a fine idea to me, except for the fact that the slime will eventually dry out, i hear. And who knows how effective it is at actually stopping up punctures for more than a few minutes or hours. (sounds good, but if you don't know you have a puncture then delaying it would be useless.)

Either way, you add some weight. A lot less so, I think, on the slime-filled tubes.

I don't know whether they're worth it or not. I'm totally convinced that kevlar-belted tires and tuffy tire liners are worthwhile, though.

I was referring to the thick rubber kind.
Thanks for info Cerewa, i'll ask LBS about the tire liners and kevlar-belted tires.
Cheers.

Puncture resistant tubes aren't, in my experience, that good. The more popular idea is to go for puncture resistant tires instead, such as Armadillos, and make sure you keep the pressure right up. Always remember to check your pressure at least every two weeks.

Thanks Armadillo.
But if the puncture resistant tire, or using the tire liners, is better at preventing punctures, why aren't they a standard item on bikes? Is it because they're a fair bit more expensive? (i've got no idea at what their cost is)

Because they're heavy.

Wouldn't have thought so, given some of the tanks that get put out on shop floors.

I'm guessing it's more of an economic factor.

If bike shops in places like the USA and Australia were mainly selling bicycles for use as transportation, they'd probably sell them with kevlar-belted tires like the armadillo. They'd let you know you were getting good flat protection and charge accordingly. But transportation cyclists are not their main market.

I'm guessing it's more of an economic factor.

I think you're probably right and I was wrong about weight being the reason. Bottom line is more likely the reason, and tough tires, tubes and tire liners would raise the mfg's cost. If they aren't sure they can get a corresponding higher price for the bike they aren't gonna do it.

My take is that tires are the line of defence against punctures, not tubes. If you want flat protection, get an appropriate tire.

Why don't all bikes come with Armadillos or Marathon Plus? For one thing it would add a lot to the cost. (My two Marathon Plus tires cost about $100. They are unlikely to be original equipment on may $300 bikes) For another, most bike buyers are recreational riders and want the lightest practical bike. Finally, most bikes are probably ridden only a few hundred miles per year so the riders don't care how puncture-resistant they might be.

Paul

Paul

Thanks Armadillo.
But if the puncture resistant tire, or using the tire liners, is better at preventing punctures, why aren't they a standard item on bikes? Is it because they're a fair bit more expensive? (i've got no idea at what their cost is)

They're heavier, have more rolling resistance, and cost more than standard tires.

They're heavier, have more rolling resistance, and cost more than standard tires.

Supcom's got it. Plus, they don't do that much good, at least in my experience. You get a similiar weight deficit from a tire liner or kevlar-belted tire, but far better protection.

Puncture-resisitant tubes are a nice thing, but like others have said, tire liners make more sense.

I used to use puncture-resistant tubes as a final line of defense....so the object not only has to go through the kevlar strip inside the tire, but through the puncture strip, and then through 3-4x the tube it had to otherwise. Pretty much makes punctures a non-concern if the tires used have very thick rubber on them as well.

the best solution is to get puncture resistant tyres- tyres vary immensely in their puncture resistance- with my Schwalbe marathons I get a puncture at the most about once a year- If I commute on my light weight MTB black jacks I get a puncture once every 2 weeks.

I have never used tyre liners but am skeptical as tyre liners can cause punctures, weigh a lot and I have this unpleasant picture of me getting a puncture and then having to try stuffing the tyre, tube AND tyre liner back on the rim in the rain on my commute

Tire liners tend to be sticky, so they aren't too hard to deal with during a tube swap.

As for causing flats....I only see that as a concern for road bikes, since it's usually a sign of too thin of a tube, or running high tire pressures.

My old diamondback had puncture resistant tubes, with tire liners, and serfas drifter tires (thick as all hell, tough rubber, and kevlar belted to boot)....I rode through goatheads, broken glass, metal, whatever with impunity...and never in the 8,000mi I put onthat bike has it ever had a flat.

Another vote for Mr. Tuffy tire liners here.

I ride 700x23C tires, and use whatever is on sale. My tire liners are now on their 4th generation of tires, ~6000 miles later. And I ride on roads that are so full of junk, my tires are literally destroyed in 2000 miles.

Example: I got my first flat in maybe six months yesterday. A 1½" roofing staple went through the sidewall of my tire. While changing the tube I noticed (yikes!) a 2 inch long piece of rubber had been ripped off my tread. I had been riding I don't how long in the tire casing, which was now frayed and tearing apart! I eyeballed the tire after replacing and there were at least 20 holes clean through the tire (big enough to see light through) but none got by the tire liner.

I've never even seen puncture resistant tubes. Supposedly, Canadian Tire has some.

Paul

The Performance thorn resistant tube are super heavy...you'll 'feel 'em at work especially on the hills' but the work very well. After about 2K miles the valves tend to go.

I use to live in the Mojave Desert area of Calif and had to deal with thorns and goatheads which are tire destroyers more so then glass etc that most of you and I run into.

Mr Tuffy's DO NOT work as well as the Armadillo tires work. I've had goatheads puncture through Mr Tuffy's! But goatheads did not go through Armadillos. Also Mr Tuffys provide NO sidewall protection whereas the Armadillos do.

Thorn resistant and Slime tubes are nonsense don't waste your money on those. Of the two Slime would be the better choice but Slime does not seal leaks once the air pressure exceeds 65psi, so Slime will work great in mtb tubes. Specialize does make a self-sealing tube called the Airlock but I've never used those so I cannot attest to how good or bad they are; but the company says they work way better then Slime.

Armadillos are heavy, but at least 100grms lighter then Schwalbe Marathons. However the rolling resistance must not be to bad considering that Team Action Sports 4 man team out of Bakersfield California in 2004 rode to first place victory in the RAAM race on Armadillos!!!!

After destroying over 13 sets of different brands of tires (mostly from thorns) and averaging 2 to 5 flats a WEEK (I average 5,000 miles a year) I decided to try the Armadillos and using 65grm racing tubes in them. After over 20,000 miles of riding and only getting 2 flats the whole time says something about their flat resistence capabilities. One of those flats was due to a faulty tube and the other due to letting a tire wear down to the cords and a small pebble penetrated the tire and punctured the tube. I then rode that flatted tire 5 miles slowly to see what would happen to the tire and nothing, nor any damage to the tube other then the original hole and no damage to the rim! The stiff puncture resistant sidewalls protected the tube and rim.

My vote is to go with a tough tire and normal tubes. Right now I am running Armadillos. They are very tough. Thorn resistant tubes worked ok for me, but at a cost. They really deaden the feel of a tire. Flick your finger in a normal tire/normal tube and you will hear a medium pitched ping. Do the same for anything with the heavy tubes and you will hear a thud. Run for a while with the heavy tubes and then go back to normal tubes. Your bike will feel faster.

The only time I got flats with the heavy tubes was in my garage. The valve stems where they meet the tube are fragile. Putting air in the tires was a delicate job.

I have armadillos and specialized thorn resistant tubes. i also have mr tuffy.
so far so good. I'd rather have an addition of 1-2lbs than repairing tire in the dark.

Most of my flats have been from defective tubes or defective valves. I rarely get flats because of nails, glass, etc. I tend to ride at least five feet from the curb, where there is relatively little debris.

But, the flats I've had that were glass/debris related came when I was riding light-weight racing tires. I bought some cheaper, heavier, size 25mm and size 28mm tires from Continental and Panaracer and never get flats from debris. These "training" tires put a much thicker layer of rubber on the primary area of wear compared with light weight racing tires. And, some of these "training" tires cost as little as ten bucks each, yet are lighter than Armadillo's and other "flat proof" tires. Nothing "high tech" about training tires. Just lots of "beef" where the rubber meets the road.

Which "cheaper" Contis were you using? I ride Gatorskins, but they ain't cheap. I indulge my tire fetish with money I saved when...oh, never mind.

Check the Conti ultrasport road, it seems to fit the description.

I've tried the pre-filled tubes and the bottles of slime for schraeder valves. When I used the self filling stuff on lower pressure Brompton tyres it was great. However, on high pressure road bike tyres it doesnt work too good. Basically the air ecapes before the stuff can seal. Another thing. You cant repair a slime filled tube when it does puncture. The liquid somehow gets between the patch and the tube lifting the patch off. Plus when the stuff does escape its messy. I've went back to standard tubes and patch them when they do puncture. Its a lot cheaper. Plus, when your slime filled tubes do puncture you tend to feel a bit disappointed.

There's another way to look at this. How critical is it to get to work on time. Are you going to have 30 students in your room without any supervision if you don't get there. Are you an air traffic controler. Is your boss , who thinks you are a freak for cycle commutng, going to get rid of you if you'r 15 minutes late?

If so, use every thing you can to avoid flats. Marathon tires, Mr. Toughy, and thorn resistant tubes.

Photoscots is absolutely correct about that Slime, great in low pressure MBT tires but sucks for high pressure road use and patches will no longer stick to the tube. You could limp home if necessary on road tires but realize that there won't be more then 60 to 65 PSI in the tire.

Marthon tires are unnecessarily heavy. Specialize Armadillos weigh at least 100grms (each) less then the Marthon''s and protect just as well. Also there is no need for heavy thorn tubes since those tubes only offer at the most 5% more protection then a good quality ultralight tube such as Specialize Turbo R tubes that only weigh 65grms instead of 140 for thorn resistent tubes. Mr Tuffy are ok to use with the Armadillos if your extremily worried about flats, but I found after living in the Mojave desert region of California that Armadillo worked far better then a just a regular tire using the Tuffy. In fact I got flats using regular tires with Tuffy's due to Goatheads penetrating both! Prior to using the Armadillos I was averaging 2 to 5 flats a week (I average 5,000 miles a year), after switching to Armadillos and using ultralight tubes my flats when to 2 in about 15,000 miles and those were a result of one faulty tube and one due to letting an Armadillo wear down to the cords. Also the Armadillo offers sidewall flat protection that no other tire does except for the Marathon.

Some people will scream that the Armadillos have too much rolling resistence, but that's all hokey pokey crap; the people that told me about the Armadillos were from Action Sports in Bakersfield CA and the man that owned the business was the team captain for Team Action Sports who in 2004 won the 4 person team event in the RAAM race and all the team members were racing on ARMADILLOS!!! And no one got a flat during the entire race!

Also some scream the tires are too stiff, and yes too a point they are especially if you put the max psi in the tires and you only weigh 160 pounds. I weigh 160 pounds and found that by putting only 90 in the rear and 80 in the front the ride soften a lot, and the tire did not wear out faster.

I will try them in the spring.

Maybe I will like them ... who knows .... I am weird like that.

My LBS has a kevlar fabric wrap that you can put around a standard tube. Anybody have experience with those?

My experience with Mr. Tuffy was good in the past. I used to ride down a road with lots of crap in it, and was fixing flats twice a week. Once I started using Tuffys, I was only getting flats about once a month. Huge improvement.

Now on my road bike, I'm using Tuffys because of my previous experience, but I still seem to get quite a few flats from thorns going through the sidewall. I don't know if it's because the shape of the tire is different, but the Tuffy just doesn't seem to be nearly as effective with road wheels.

sssccchhhwwaaalbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! *said like sega when you start a game*

marathon

marathon plus

...Also the Armadillo offers sidewall flat protection that no other tire does except for the Marathon. ..

Some people will scream that the Armadillos have too much rolling resistence,...

Also some scream the tires are too stiff, and yes too a point they are especially if you put the max psi in the tires and you only weigh 160 pounds...
I've ridden Armadillos for years, but plan to experiment with the Marathon Plus the next time I have to buy tires because they look like they may be a bit tougher. Here is what I like about the Armadillos

1) Good sidewall protection. For commuting, I think this alone can justify them
2) Long lasting
3) Relatively inexpensive
4) Good flat protection

Here is what I don't like:
1) Grip, especially if you ride at max pressure. Wet grip is terrible.
2) Flat resistance is good and better than other things I've tried, but I still want better. I probably average a flat every 800-1000 miles, though a disproportionate percentage of those occur when it's dark and wet because I hit more debris, the water helps sharp objects penetrate, and keeping stuff out of the tires is harder.

I've never thought the rolling resistance or the comfort of the Armadillo was bad -- I think comfort is largely a conditioning issue for the cyclist. As others have mentioned, Armadillos are heavy, but I see that as a nonissue for commuting. You have other things that slow you down far more.

Liners are a PITA -- particularly in the dark when it's cold and wet. Also, I have a low opinion of slime for reasons others have mentioned. Get decent tires and normal tubes.

Heavy ("thornproof") innertubes do prevent flats from things like thorns, slivers of glass, staples, etc. when the objects are just not long enough to penetrate all the way through. They are even stiff enough that larger cuts in the tire can be tolerated than with a lighter tube. They are heavy enough to effect performance.

Tuffy's are very effective at preventing punctures, but I have had problems with them cutting the chords on the inside of the tire after many miles.

I have been happy with panaracer/rivendell ruffy tuffy belted tires. They roll well and are reasonably light. However, I had some problems with them getting cut up when my route included a section of road that is popular for recreational bottle breaking. I also cut up a Specialized cirrus on the same route, though it lasted a reasonably long time after I booted it. I have also been using a larger-section panaracer belted tire with nary a problem so far. I have not ridden armadillos, but the carcass is so stiff it can not possibly ride well. But they may be worth it.

From my LBS experience, I found that thick-walled "Thorn-Resistant" tubes are excellent at warding off pinch flats, so I often recommended them for use on kids' bikes or for people who looked like they might benefit from extra pinch-flat resistance. I think I've seen only one Mr. Tuffy punctured in usage, so I give them a good rating for glass and normal thorns, better than any puncture-resistant tire I've seen or used on a statistical basis. Feather the ends with a grinder.

Down in the Tri-Cities area, they've got major goathead infestation and I've seen some nightmare tires from there. Slime + Tuffys + thick tubes + beefy tires for them.

My LBS has a kevlar fabric wrap that you can put around a standard tube. Anybody have experience with those?

There are a couple of different kinds. The Spinskins are the best. They are much lighter than Tuffys, protect a little better, but they do wear out and can wear out your tire too fast if you do not follow the instructions when installing them. They do wear out eventually. They cost a lot more than Tuffys.

Commuted to work for 16 years. Very few punctures ever, and living in AZ we get lots of thorns and busted glass (every Friday nite: drink-toss the bottles on the road syndrome).
Carried spare tube, patch kit, tire tools, pump. Takes less than 7 minutes to drop rear wheel and remove/replace/pump up new tube.
Goop and flat-resistant tires are not worth the co$t/hassle.

After my ride from Dante's fifth circle of hell this morning, I decided to get the Armadillo Spanky tires, but I can't seem to find them anyplace where they'll ship, despite a froogle check. Does anyone know offhand of a store that will ship them?

Koffee

After my ride from Dante's fifth circle of hell this morning, I decided to get the Armadillo Spanky tires, but I can't seem to find them anyplace where they'll ship, despite a froogle check. Does anyone know offhand of a store that will ship them?

Koffee

Have you tried ordering them on Specialized's own online store? I've bought tires from them before and they shipped to me.

Doh! No. I'm headed there right now. Thanks!

Koffee