Google sponsored links
I'm looking to get a softshell to get me through a Boston winter. I'll be layering of course, but I'm looking for something to act as an outer layer in all conditions but heavy freezing rain. Ideally, I'd like to pick up one for less than $150. Any reccommendations of make/model or online retailers to look at would be greatly appreciated
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content
here.
Ready to buy? Check out these two online bike stores:
-
http://www.nashbar.com (you can find the latest bike nashbar coupons in
this thread)
-
http://www.performancebike.com (you can find the latest performance bike coupons in
this thread)
Cya on the forums,
- The BikeForums Team
-
http://www.bikeforums.net
http://www.sierradesigns.com/mens.display.php?id=218
This is what I use. Water/wind proof. Not too bulky in the wind either. It also doesn't dorky when you're wearing it around off your bike.
http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?page=headwall-soft-shell-jacket&categoryId=39666&storeId=1&catalogId=1&langId=-1&parentCategory=8525&cat4=8524&shop_method=pp&feat=ssdpb8524
http://www.rei.com/product/47914343.htm?
In softshells, the "one", the benchmark softshell jacket under $150,would be the MEC Ferrata jacket made of the regular weight Schoeller Dryskin.
up the sticker a bit and grab the classic, arguably one of the first softshells on the modern market, the Cloudveil Serendipity, made with more nappy Dryskin Extreme.
There are a TON of softshells out there, including some that are just bad news for aerobic activities. Best to do a little product research before buying.
Sierratradingpost.com!
I shop there a lot. Picked up a Mammut Schoeller nano-something or other softshell, very nice for about that much. Their stock comes and goes, but usually it's top shelf product in limited, steeply discounted lots.
I bought this one, in yellow, at an REI store today for winters in Houston. http://www.rei.com/product/47914343.htm
Isn't "winters in Houston" an oxymoron?
Sierra trading post is bound to have some great deals on real softshell jackets, not like several of the not-softshell sweat buckets mentioned above.
The best deal right now, one to jump on, is the Ibex speedplay jacket, on sale in their outlet website section, $136.00. This would quickly become your favorite jacket.
Check out the Burley line of jackets. I found the Nor'wester to be a great mix of breathable and waterproof/wind-proof. It is well designed and 'lots of reflective tape' for visibility. Designed for recumbent though, they have another one that is designed for the DFers. as well.
I think you will find it far superior to the Novara from REI. I attempted those and did not like the quality and breath-ability of the REI product. Sorry for those of you that recommended it.
REI has a couple of Polartec Power Shield jackets for ~$130. Does any one know how this material compares to other softshell materials.
I feel like most of the recommendations made so far are for waterproof rain gear and not the water resistant softshell jackets like Power Shield I think of when "soft shell jacket" is mentioned. Are these water proof jackets breathable enough for aerobic activities in cold weather. I was looking for something very breathable and wind proof/resistant that would be somewhat water resistant, incase I got caught in a cold shower.
Craig
Power shield is pretty warm compared to some of the other soft shell fabrics. Powershield is a layer of fleece on the inside, bonded w/glue to a nylon, smoother faced outer shell. Warmer, still quite breathable, more breathable than a 'softshell' with gore windstopper membrane. This is warmer, and more weather resistant.
Because cycling is such an aerobic activity, like cross country skiing in cold weather, I prefer the breathability of simple bicomponent weave softshell fabrics like Schoeller Dryskin or Ibex Climawool. Bicomponent, woven softshells have the most breathability yet still maintain a high degree of weather resistance. They rely on no extra layers, no glue, no membranes, and therefore have the best moisture transport of any of the softshell fabrics.
I switched to softshell jackets and pants almost 10 years ago, when the fabrics first started getting used in US performance clothing. I've owned several types of jackets and pants over the years, and also tested and sold outdoor gear in the past, I think this stuff is great. From biking to ski mountaineering, softshells are the way to go.
The Marmot ATV (04) softshell has Schoeller Dryskin for under $100.00,(normally 179.00).
I also live in the Boston area and I've been using an EMS Apollo jacket (made from Schoeller WB-400) for the last couple of years. I also have a Marmot ATV (Schoeller Dryskin Extreme with a extra insulation layer in the front). The Marmot is OK for maybe down to 40 degrees with another layering underneath, but when I go out in really cold weather, I wear the EMS jacket. It has better wind resistance and more insulation; on the other hand, it doesn't breathe as well -- but it's still much better than waterproof-breatheable fabrics, and it's more than enough in cold weather. Unfortunately, they discontinued the Apollo jacket, but there are other companies that make jackets out of WB-400 (Mammut and BeyondFleece, for example).
I think Power Shield is one of the heavier-duty softshell fabrics out there. The middle layer is some sort of plastic membrane. I think it has better wind/water resistance, at the expense of breathability and stretch. I think the lack of stretch leads to a less comfortable jacket -- I've tried a couple on and they seemed to restrict movement. The cut matters here, of course.
There's comparison chart of some fabrics here:
http://beyondfleece.com/images/content/html/productcomparison.html
To keep this topic hopping,
Schoeller WB-400 is a great, warmer, superstretchy soft shell with high weather resistance. I've got some bigmountain bibs made of it and the fabric is amazing, but definetly a below freezing fabric. Powershield, though it feels like it has a membrane, that is just glue and 2 layers of fabric. It's almost as warm as the WB-400 but a bit more breathable. Still, for below freezing conditions, in Boston either would probably work real well for those frigid days. These are great fabrics for downhill skiing.
I've got the Marmot ATV jacket as well, and think this is one of the better ones out there for aerobic stuff, even much below freezing with a sweater underneath. just not heavy rain. It depends on your personal comfort level and exertion, I think. The more breathable jackets made out of Schoeller or Climawool are more comfortable due to their more effective moisture transport.
...I talked myself into buying the Ibex Speedplay jacket from the Ibex websale to replace a tired, 5 year old MEC Feratta jacket that has been my single most often worn piece of clothing in the last half decade- softshell clothing ROCKS! for those of you who haven't tried them yet.
According to Polartec's web site, Power Shield actually does have a polyurethane membrane sandwiched in the middle. My sense (although I haven't used a Power Shield garment extensively) is that it doesn't breathe as well as WB-400...
Didn't know it had a membrane! A poly U membrane, Polyurethane is what's used in cheap waterproof jackets...that definetly puts it down a notch in softshell versatility.
To keep this topic hopping,
Schoeller WB-400 is a great, warmer, superstretchy soft shell with high weather resistance. I've got some bigmountain bibs made of it and the fabric is amazing, but definetly a below freezing fabric. Powershield, though it feels like it has a membrane, that is just glue and 2 layers of fabric. It's almost as warm as the WB-400 but a bit more breathable. Still, for below freezing conditions, in Boston either would probably work real well for those frigid days. These are great fabrics for downhill skiing.
I've got the Marmot ATV jacket as well, and think this is one of the better ones out there for aerobic stuff, even much below freezing with a sweater underneath. just not heavy rain. It depends on your personal comfort level and exertion, I think. The more breathable jackets made out of Schoeller or Climawool are more comfortable due to their more effective moisture transport.
...I talked myself into buying the Ibex Speedplay jacket from the Ibex websale to replace a tired, 5 year old MEC Feratta jacket that has been my single most often worn piece of clothing in the last half decade- softshell clothing ROCKS! for those of you who haven't tried them yet.
What's the word on the Ibex Speedplay and how does it compare to the Marmot ATV ?
Also wondering if Marmot is still using schoeller since bieng acquired by K2 in 04 ?
I'll let you know about the ATV/Speedplay comparison as soon as the Ibex jacket arrives FedEx, this thread is what got me convinced to order the Ibex speedplay...I went to look at my old MEC and it is falling apart at the seams, literally!
I have a lot of Ibex shizzle and some of their Climawool shorts, and have high expectations for the Speedplay jacket.
I got an Ibex Speedplay fedex today; compared to the Marmot ATV, a little lighter gauge, fit more like a classic track jacket, nice reflective tape; downside, black colored back! instead of the body color(grumble, no mention of black in the description...)
Took it out with a long sleeve base layer on and put it through some paces, it's lighter gauge than the Marmot ATV and more air permable. If that becomes a liability remains to be seen, as does the water repellancy. It still needs a lot more use to gauge it accurately, but its a good replacement for my MEC Feratta that is pretty much toast.
I'm putting the Ibex speedplay and Climawool lite in the spring-summer-fall jacket category, and the ATV in the Fall-Winter-spring category.
I'll still use the Speedplay in the winter here in the Northwest, i'll have to take it cross country skiing to see how runs in the snow.
I got an Ibex Speedplay fedex today; compared to the Marmot ATV, a little lighter gauge, fit more like a classic track jacket, nice reflective tape; downside, black colored back! instead of the body color(grumble, no mention of black in the description...)
....
I am looking for a softshell jacket like this, too, but was bummed about the black back. I wrote Ibex and asked if the jackets were all one color, and got a prompt (and cheerful) reply from a Carrie Huppe:
"Yes, it is all one color!!"
Which doesn't jive with your experience, but I think I'll give it a try as my ancient Bellweather, while reasonably windproof, is the antithesis of breathable.
Thanks, all, for the great recommendations in this thread. (I'll let you know what color(s) my Speedplay is when I get it.
David
Check out the Burley line of jackets. I found the Nor'wester to be a great mix of breathable and waterproof/wind-proof. It is well designed and 'lots of reflective tape' for visibility. Designed for recumbent though, they have another one that is designed for the DFers. as well.
I think you will find it far superior to the Novara from REI. I attempted those and did not like the quality and breath-ability of the REI product. Sorry for those of you that recommended it.
I second this. I just bought the Rockport jacket in yellow. There jackets are designed for cycling. Not all REI jackests have zip pits, etc.
Anyone tried the Ibex Pingo or North Face Apex Magic ?
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442617574&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302699337&bmUID=1132183754255
MEC Ferrata Hoodie: Schoeller dryskin extreme w. 3xdry; $155 CDN, which is as inexpensive a regular price as you'll find.
I've owned a Cloudveil jacket made of the same fabric, and it's really nice for mild, dryish winters (down to -10 or -15C). Not waterproof enough in driving rain and harsh slop. Breatheable, stretchy, and softer than materials with a membrane, such as Polartec Powershield. A bit of wind does get through the fabric, but that's kind of the point of a softshell.
I currently have the MEC Pamir jacket ($145): Powershield Light, no hood. Warmer, but less breatheable than Dryskin. There's also a hooded jacket in this fabric at MEC (the Halo), bit it's $85 more. Looks nice, but the price puts it at the level of many other brands.
Is the workmanship good on the MEC jackets ?
Sounds like the Cloudveil Serendipity is the top of the line jacket made with Schoeller.
My MEC Feratta jacket has seen over five years of heavy mountaineering, ski touring and everyday biking use and is very well put togther. I've beat it up however, and it needed replacing. Cloudveil Serendipity has the panache as the old guard king of the softshells.
It's really more about the fabrics though. Any non-laminate softshell like Dryskin, Dryskin extreme, Climawool or Tweave will have better moisture transport at the expense of some wind resistance. (I have a first gen patagonia Dimension jacket for full conditions winter mountaineering that's a 100% windproof non-laminate softshell fabric, but this fabric is uncommon, and Patagonia switched to a laminate in the later versions of this jacket)
Any guled-laminated softshell fabric like Powershield, powershield lite, windstopper or WB-400 will be more wind resistanct at the expense of some vapor transport. That's why a lot of the windstopper jackets have pit zips, and none of the Dryskin jackets do that I know of.
All of the fabrics have differing characteristics, but nonlaminate jackets seem to be the most versatile, and the lam jackets seem to possess greater weather resistance.
I'm loving the Ibex climawool, even though its got the black back :( the wool makes it warmer than my Ferrata at the same cut (track jacket) and style of fabric (non lam) It's also less clammy than my dryskin jackets because the wool inside provides superior moisture management. not that dryskin would ever be considered a clammy fabric.
i'm a little confused why anyone would want a softshell for winter cycling. windchill is absolutely a killer in the winter, let alone on the bike. as such i go for light waterproof/windproof shells, and wear layers underneath the shell. a softshell strikes me as kinda silly. good for fall cycling, sure. but in freezing temps? no way.
even worse is the waterproof shell with fleece lining. that completely takes away the whole concept of layering, which is the ability to remove or add a layer if needed. the fleece lined shells i find aer almost always too warm.
sd
I wear soft shells all winter long. Sometimes in conditions well below zero and 70 mph windchills. I've worn them on mountain rescue missions running around at 10,000 feet in a whiteout.
Softshells are engineered to be superior winter jackets, you should try one, shaq-d. Their 'secret' which isn't really rocket science, is providing good vapor transference while still allowing good wind/weather resistance. Some may argue a laminate 'softshell' isn't really a soft shell because it relies on a membrane to provide the weathering versus solely in the fabric.
With a softshell you remain LESS wet even in moderate precip conditions because you are not encased in a waterproof layer. And in any conditions shory of heavy wet consistent slop, a soft shell will likely provide a superior microclimate inside the jacket.
In addition, the superior vapor transference also helps minimize evaporative cooling. As an example, I volunteer on Mount Rainier in the winter, working with the park service on a backcountry ski patrol. I ski all day long in all conditions, with other people who are usually wearing the traditional waterproof breathable shell layers over synthetic clothing. I've worn wool and softshells for the last five years.
When we stop, the people in waterproof hard shells immediatlely begin to experience evaporative cooling and will be shivering and going hypo. In soft shells, I am warm and dry. When we get back off patrol and go off the mountain to the patrol cabin, I can usually wear what I wore skiing all day, while the people in hard shells have to get out of soaking wet, goretex encased layers.
But softshells are engineered to be the superior winter clothing system. There are distinctly NOT just for fair weather wear, if anything, to the contrary. They are designed to perform better in the majority of conditions the outdoor athelete encounters.
You've GOT to try one, Shaq'd.
I picked up an inexpensive softshell from LandsEnd ($80 list - $15 overstocks) just to try out. I figured I couldn't go wrong at $15. Today was the first time I had a chance to use it. It was very windproof and quite breathable. I would imagine the more expensive materials are even better but I think this will be my cycling wear for below freezing. I think this laminated softshell will probably be too warm for cycling above 35 degrees. This monring it was in the low 20's and very windy and I only wore a coolmax t-shirt under the jacket. Based on my experience with this inexpensive softshell these are great.
Craig
15 bucks, you lucky *******!
15 bucks, you lucky *******!
I just noticed they still have some in Large and XLarge sizes.
http://landsend.com/cd/ov/prod/0,,2_17273_17278_30845_124840_103287_9:view=59,00.html?sid=4366184622212130920&CM_MERCH=SRCH
Craig
Sierra trading post is bound to have some great deals on real softshell jackets, not like several of the not-softshell sweat buckets mentioned above.
The best deal right now, one to jump on, is the Ibex speedplay jacket, on sale in their outlet website section, $136.00. This would quickly become your favorite jacket.
How's that jacket working out on the climbs/descents? I didn't see this jacket on their site. What's the URL??
It's in their outlet section, off the vertical navigation bar....
I haven't had enough time to really give it a good go through the paces. Its more air permeable but still suprisingly warm, warmer than my single layer dryskin jackets even though it feels more airy when you first start moving....
I think it's a great choice that will leave a wearer more comfortable than a synthetic only softshell on the uphills/ downhills because of the wool in the fabric. It's certainly superior, moisture manegement wise, than a windproof nylon or waterproof/breathable layering system will EVER be...and the reflective tape, on a soft shell, in and of itself, makes this a superior cycling softshell, you see very little flecco tape or piping on non cycling specific softshells, the Ibex jacket is a really well thought out fast forward activities softshell..
Found it...what no pit zips? is that possible?
none of the non-laminate softshells have pitzips, because the fabric doesn't need them.
Judging by some of the comments from other soft shell users, it sounds like zips are needed.
So many factors when commuting, Living in the convergence zone, rain/snow is ify. The radar will show no rain...but then 30 mi up the road, rain develops that may freeze. There's no sag wagon or warmup hut for the commute.
Wet wool sounds soggy. Soggy is probably OK if it could dry in under 4hrs for the return ride home.
I will check out the Ibex ... But I'm leary about shelling out another $150 for a quality jacket (Ok the last one was 180) that 'can't cut it' in temps between 20-40F. Unfortunately once it's been sweated up/doused with street rain, it's not returnable :p
I have the Gore Bike Wear Tool Tricot with windstopper which is great for temps below 40, but is too much jacket above 40. Even with the pit zips, it tends to be pretty sweaty in 40 and up temps. I haven't had it in the rain yet, but I suspect it will be OK when wet. My gut feeling is that this will work great down to 15 or 20. Unfortunately the temps that I am most likely to be riding in are in the 35-50 range during the winter. For this range I'm leaning toward the ATV and Ibex. Should I consider a vest ?
In a side note, I also have the Gore Bike Wear action bibs with windstopper only on the fronts and much lighter material on the backs. These do a superior job of keeping my legs warm and dry up to 55 degrees.
I would think leaving the laminate out of the back of the jackets would alleviate the sweating problems.
Following up on an earlier post: I received my Ibex Speedplay today (ordered it yesterday!). It is burnt orange all around, front and back. Very nice quality, though I wish it were a bit longer in the back. Temps in the low to mid-40s all weekend here, so I'll have ample chance to try it out. (Seems like I should have ordered two: one to wear while the other dries out after washing....)
David
wierd, you got a solid color one, and I got a Golden with a black back! Damn....
1 track, if you like a jacket with a non wind layer back, Ibex makes one as well, it's just not on sale!
If fast drying from a completely sopping wet state is your biggest concern, go with a non wool. Wool provides superior moisture management, and feels drier a lot longer than the synthetic softshells, but will take longer to dry if its saturated. for most rides, a non laminate softshell of either wool blend or all synthetic will feel mostly dry at the end of a four hour ride.
Last year I bought the Gore Windstopper jersey. It was a bit pricey at $120 but was good down to 43 degrees or so by itself. With a single base layer, it was good down to about 37 degrees. Since then I have bought a few other products to expand my winter cycling needs and nothing has been as good or versatile as the Gore Windstopper. I bit he bullet and bought another one Tuesday. I don't know how many layers/how cold I can go with them but I will find out this winter I'm sure. I do know that I have not found anything that breathes as well while protecting you from the wind as this material does. It is by far my favorite.
I also bought a pair of Pearl Izumi AmFIB tights and used those today for the first time. Granted, it was only 43 degrees out today but I was blown away at how well they kept the wind off the legs and I'm sure they will be good for the rain as well. Too bad this stuff is so expensive but I've found that the cheaper stuff just doesn't cut it.
Since the Ibex is made of wool, could you use it without a baselayer ? I've noticed that some windshirts can be used as a baselayer. Also wondering how this would work underneath another softshell with windstopper on really cold days.
I actually have less of a problem spending 150 on a jacket than 70 on a baselayer.
It would be nice to kill two birds with one stone on semi-mid days.
As far as prices, these are the lowest I've found;
MEC Ferrata Hoodie $155
Ibex Speedplay $136
Ibex Pingo $109
Marmot ATV $99
BTW, I ordered a Pingo. I'll give a full report when it arrives.
When we stop, the people in waterproof hard shells immediatlely begin to experience evaporative cooling and will be shivering and going hypo. In soft shells, I am warm and dry. When we get back off patrol and go off the mountain to the patrol cabin, I can usually wear what I wore skiing all day, while the people in hard shells have to get out of soaking wet, goretex encased layers.
But softshells are engineered to be the superior winter clothing system. There are distinctly NOT just for fair weather wear, if anything, to the contrary. They are designed to perform better in the majority of conditions the outdoor athelete encounters.
You've GOT to try one, Shaq'd.
hi beks,
ok, looks like i'm going to have to try one. thing is, i don't wanna spend another $100 bux.. i'm gonna order the lands' end one, even though i can't use it at night, and see how it goes...
sd
edit: omg, you suckers, you bought them all out! oi. on the prowl for a cheap soft shell...
Since the Ibex is made of wool, could you use it without a baselayer ? I've noticed that some windshirts can be used as a baselayer. Also wondering how this would work underneath another softshell with windstopper on really cold days.
It would be nice to kill two birds with one stone on semi-mid days.
As far as prices, these are the lowest I've found;
MEC Ferrata Hoodie $155
Ibex Speedplay $136
Ibex Pingo $109
Marmot ATV $99
BTW, I ordered a Pingo. I'll give a full report when it arrives.
### With any of the softshells I've seen, all have a brushed inside surface so you can wear them next to skin. I'll worn my feratta plenty by itself when it's been hot camping but the mosquitos are bad.
###A softshell works layered underneath other softshells or waterproofs. none of them are as lofty as thick fleece, so they're not as warm as a heavyweight pile jacket under a shell though.
###a softshell will quickly become one of your favorite layering pieces. And to shaq-d, head on down to MEC on King St, I got my feratta during a sale at MEC Vancouver for like $60CDN. At least, ask those *******s for more of the 411 on softshells, its probably the best place to ogle softshell gear.
Has anyone tried the GORE Bike Wear Tool Jacket? It's close to $150.... $159. I live in Chicago and I'm looking for a warm jacket too.
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=19281&subcategory_ID=1130#
Look at the EMS jacket- it's well insulated, and has huge pit zips, so it can be used across a wide variety of temperatures. Check their returns rack regularly, as you can pick up some real deals there, as people buy winter gear and return it.
I also have the gore tool jacket- it's much more fitted than the ems jacket, and has bike-specific pockets and tailflap, but the stitching and zippers are not as good. With a 20% coupon for performance bike, it can be pretty cheap.
fatbat - is the gore tool a good choice? Being in Chicago, I need something to stand up to the cold weather. Probably 10 degrees or so.
I ran across this wonderful jacket comparison chart on the Internet which I used to help me decide.
http://www.teamestrogen.com/jacketchart.asp
Saw a couple of "soft shells" @ some sporting goods store. Design was not there... It appeared to me like a scramble to use a buz word to $ell exi$ting junk on the rack@ a higher price.
Maybe I'm expecting too much from a winter jacket. Most of the web jackets only had one or more of what I hoped to find:
* Handle temps 30-45 (maybe even 20F).
* Thick in the front (to block wind), thinner in the back.
* Eliminate 1 layer on the torso. i.e., instead of the trad 3-4 layers...just...base and softshell.
* Wide band of reflectivity on the arms/front.
* Waterproof - prevents wind from forcing water into jacket
* Pit Zips
* Hood
* Yellow
I ordered the Ibex Speedplay jacket anyway hoping if the thing will just breath, I can compensate for the rest including adding the reflectivity needed for approaching 40MPH traffic can see.
Wow I didn't realize this thread was still going. I ended up going with the EMS Gunk (details in this thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154748) ) It's made of Schoeller WB-400. It's been a godsend. I ended up scoring it for $111. Most definately a worthwhile sub-$150 soft shell in my opinion
I also ordered the Marmot ATV jacket because I just couldn't decide which jacket. When the Ibex and ATV arrive, I'll do side by side comparisions and post 'em here.
Meantime the Schoeller WB-400 pants came. I just came in from a 3mile dry-run. @30mph and 41F they were fantastic...the return ride on a 12% climb over 1.5miles was warm but no overheating.
Back outside for a 20mi ride.
I ordered the Ibex Speedplay jacket anyway hoping if the thing will just breath, I can compensate for the rest including adding the reflectivity needed for approaching 40MPH traffic can see.
I consider the reflectivity of any outer layer as 'gravy' anymore, preferring to don a reflective safety vest that I can put over anything, any time of year. It really makes those jacket/shell decisons somewhat easier. :)
Previous -
Top -
Next
Copyright 1999 - 2007
BikeForums.Net - All rights reserved.
Common bike forum topics in clue bicycles, cycling, mountain biking,
cycling jerseys, shorts, socks, shoes and bike equiptment selection.