Commuting - job discrimination for the carless/carless need not apply.

after 4 years at this company, and 1 year in my current position sans car for the majority of this time...

I WAS F\/|<*|\|G WRITTEN UP FOR NOT HAVING A CAR!

i now have 1 month to come up with enough money to buy a car, renew my insurance, cover court costs for a suspended license ($650 for having a breaklight out), and pay off all my parking tickets(*shrugs* i live in LA...), otherwise i am subject to further disciplinary action up to or including termination.

WRITTEN UP FOR BEING POOR AND UNLUCKY!

only in america...

i can't wait to take on the joys of car ownership after years without.

Unless your job description specifically said you must use your car, I think your employers are out on a limb on this one.

Also, if a car is a requirement they should be responsible for footing some of the bill, or provide you with a company car to use while doing work-related activities...it would seem to me.

I'm speechless...WTF? Just curious, what do you do for a living?

after 4 years at this company, and 1 year in my current position sans car for the majority of this time...

I WAS F\/|<*|\|G WRITTEN UP FOR NOT HAVING A CAR!



smells like BS. fight this one, all it will take is one tree-hugging judge and you'll be on your way :)

I would take all that money and get a lawyer... depending on what you answer for the "what is your job" question.

I generally hate to suggest suing the bastards as a first reaction, but if they fire you that may be your best recourse.

I hate to be the unhappy voice of legal reality, but if hester doesn't have a union or some kind of employment contract, s/he may be s.o.l. I'm not saying this is fair, but the norm in this country is at-will employment, meaning they can fire you for anything they like except one of the big no-nos (race, sex, disability).

i work in community services, for a non profit organization. although the job description does declare that there is a need for travel, i'm not sure that having a car is specified. besides! that is beyond the point. i have been in this position for over a year now, and this is the first i've heard of this being a problem. i generally ride my bike part way and take it on the bus or subway for longer routes.

we just changed office location from downtown to a remote area up in a park and so my commute time has increase considerably. i work half a day in the office and than end the day out in the field. the change in location has increased my travel from 15 minutes to about an hour. i understand how this can be construed as 'non-productive use of company time', however when i signed on this wasn't an issue and i had no idea we would change locations. regardless, we've been in this new location for 5 months now.

i feel stongly about the work i do, and the company has been good to me thus far. this is why i am so surprised about this turn of events. i have been with them 4 years, promoted to 3 different positions in that time, am just about the third longest employed in my department and have never been written up. when i asked them about a solution, they offered me a salary advance of however much to be taken out in equal increments over the next three pay periods. with the amount i need to buy even a cheap car and have it insured deducted, that would leave me about 400 bucks per 2 weeks for the next month and a half. hello ramen and ketchup!

i have already put in resumes at several other companies, i'm just that mad!

i have already put in resumes at several other companies, i'm just that mad!

Sounds like the best solution to me.

First, get a legal opinion. Second, go to the media. It may be hard to "sell" the story to an editor, but chances are a TV station or paper may be interested in what is going on. Media attention is a great way to force negotiations.

You may also want to look at your other job options. Honestly, if they pull this stunt on you, do you really want to keep working with them? If you do, will you really have any job security?

As much as I hate office gossip, this is also the time to use it. Are you sure there are no other factors going on here? Have there been any complaints about you, official or otherwise, from co-workers or supervisors? Is there a new person at the office who may not like you, but never said so? I don't want to sound paranoid, but when a problem comes up in a previously good work situation, I start wondering "where did this come from?"

As much as I hate to say it, going to the media sounds like a great idea in light of gas prices and such. I could see someone taking on that story.

i work in community services.... the job description does declare that there is a need for travel...

... i work half a day in the office and than end the day out in the field. the change in location has increased my travel from 15 minutes to about an hour. i understand how this can be construed as 'non-productive use of company time'...

You could always say you have a car but that it is in the shop (and neglect to mention that it was in the showroom part)...

But seriously, do you know what the real issue is? The technicality of not owning a car has a really funny ring to it. The time you spend changing locations could be a legitimate beef, and if you're all tired and messy, that could also be legit. If they want you to come in quickly on call, that could be an issue.

If there is not some sort of screwball issue behind the scenes, it might be that your needs and the needs of your employer do not mesh, particularly if they need you to travel about.

I don't think a huge legal or media fight is a good idea. Even if you win, you lose because it will wreck your relationship with your employer. Negotiation is probably your best tool. If you really _have_ to get a car but can't, just tell your employer you will and string them along for a couple months while you work like heck to find another job.

p.s. a suspended license and $650 for a brake light? Something is wrong with this picture

p.s. a suspended license and $650 for a brake light? Something is wrong with this picture

hehehe... i know. i was confused by this as well... the story goes:

once i had a car. i drove it well, was cautious and kind. i worked incredibly hard to get that machine. had it for about 4 months. got one ticket in the time it was mine. for a break light. i had noticed it was out the night before and had a replacement in the bag ready to install. wouldn't you know it! that day i was pulled over for that very reason...

so about a week afterward, before i had the opportunity to bring it in for the 'yup i fixed it check up', some kid made a left turn right in front of me from a side street and totaled my beautiful green gti. being naive, with a clean driving record, confused and overcome with grief at my bad fortune, i not so much failed to bring this non - existant car to the courthouse to prove i got a light as just forgot that i had the ticket in the first place. see, my mind was filled with other things like... there goes a big part of my life and gee golly i'm glad everybody's ok.

six months go buy with me blissfully unaware and i get a letter of suspension for failing to appear. such is life. i called for the details and in the end told the lady to cram it. since i started riding a bike as my only mode of transportation, what use is a license to me? ...650 fine and court costs... and there you have it.

You owed $650 for a year but didn't make any attempt to pay it off or pay off the parking tickets.
At least you got to tell the lady to cram it, I mean that must have given you some satisfaction.
Hoisted by your own petard.

A pattern of irresponsible behavior and a dcik for a boss are comming together in a pretty nasty way.

Fix your problems and get a new job.

You got it. Personnel policies of the company might give some help if they are being violated. Otherwise – employment is at will.

I guess there was a reason why people formed all those unions in the 20th century.



I hate to be the unhappy voice of legal reality, but if hester doesn't have a union or some kind of employment contract, s/he may be s.o.l. I'm not saying this is fair, but the norm in this country is at-will employment, meaning they can fire you for anything they like except one of the big no-nos (race, sex, disability).

You owed $650 for a year but didn't make any attempt to pay it off or pay off the parking tickets.
At least you got to tell the lady to cram it, I mean that must have given you some satisfaction.
Hoisted by your own petard.


hey, cram it! when did this careen away from the pity poor me party i had anticipated? :P

and for the record, i had wrongly assumed that the court system and the dmv had some sort of interaction with each other that would show the car was totaled before the court date... i admit now that it was an illogical train of thought. i have a court date to clear it up, in hopes that the ticket will be dismissed. plus, they never sent me any warnings of failure to appear or payment needed in the whole time it was left pending. it simply slipped my mind.

who said i made no attempt to pay off anything? at least i didn't have enough parking tickets to boot my car which is about 5 in LA, i think. they just were too expensive to pay on a fixed income and i have been paying on them when i've got a dime.

hoisted by your own petard, indeed! i never intend to harm anyone.

As much as I hate office gossip, this is also the time to use it. Are you sure there are no other factors going on here? Have there been any complaints about you, official or otherwise, from co-workers or supervisors? Is there a new person at the office who may not like you, but never said so? I don't want to sound paranoid, but when a problem comes up in a previously good work situation, I start wondering "where did this come from?"

That's the first thing that came to mind. Did you anger a higher-up?

why not rent a car for a month? let the issue die down, then stop renting when you can safely bike commute again.

if you rent a car, you HAVE a car. are they going to inspect your auto loan? sheesh.

i share a car with sig. other, but if i ever did need one long term i would rent.. weekly rates from local budget is cheap cheap cheaper than a loan and definetely a lease

plus you can pick and choose different cars when you want, although if i do rent for the day it's the economy one.

That's the first thing that came to mind. Did you anger a higher-up?

i think i'm generally well liked... i'm a counselor and am so trained in maintaining a non- assuming, non-judgemental attitude which i use not only in my work, but socially. i tend to joke around alot, using myself as the butt of the joke 'cause i think its funnier that way. all for the sake of humor, i say! i'm the least traditional of the lot, starting off as a wacky punk kid and ending up where i am now... the corporate world is funny that way, you know?

we very seldom hire from the outside, but there are alot of internal position changes. now that you mention it, it could just be a haughty power grab by someone out to prove that they can make things more efficient by cutting the slack. there have been a few promotions to management 'round here recently. usually when a person is slapped with a management position, it comes with a bit of swelling.

Well, if you'd been thinking coherently, you'd have immediately gone to court with your accident/insurance report, shown the judge your brake light part, which should have taken care of your "fix-it" ticket. Then take the part back to the store and get your money back. Did you sock away the money you got when the guy failed to yield and totalled your car?

the light had already been installed and was, in fact, the only thing working after the car was totalled.
the car was being bought on the 5 year plan. basically, his insurance paid off the loan.


Well, if you'd been thinking coherently, you'd have immediately gone to court with your accident/insurance report, shown the judge your brake light part, which should have taken care of your "fix-it" ticket. Then take the part back to the store and get your money back. Did you sock away the money you got when the guy failed to yield and totalled your car?

yeah, why not just sign up for flex car and never use it? Are they really going to watch how you get to work every day? I would be looking for another job because it sounds like a SNAFU.

Best course is to ask if there are any alternatives to a car. After all, it is LA. There are many times when a bike can be faster than a car. Have you considered using a bus to see if that makes things any speedier? Another thing to consider might be an electric bike. Still don't need a license for that.

Hester, can't you just work 45 minutes longer, to make up for the commute time?

What you need to do first of all, regarding the job thing, is to go to HR and request a copy of your job description including applicant requirements. Make sure they include a copy of the description if it has changed since you were hired to the current position along with any change notifications.

Then take a good look at your write up. Have you actually been written up for not having a car or have you been written up for the symptoms of not using a car to commute and travel for business? If it's the latter you'll need to adopt a different tack.

Now, if you are genuinely entitled, you need to lodge a formal objection to being written up. If you are not required to own a car or have not received sufficient notification of job description to acquire a car and have been written up for not owning a car then you need to object to this. I could go through all of the permutations but I suspect you can work them out yourself. If you have in fact been written up for the symptoms of not owning car then you object on the grounds of economic and personal belief discrimination.

If you find that you have in some sense failed to meet clearly communicated requirements of the position then you should raise a formal objection to the requirements of the position as they are unreasonable. i.e. you can actually complete the tasks of the position without posessing a car.

Once you have been through a formal objection procedure with HR and they haven't recinded with a full apology then consider contacting a lawyer for legal advice in the matter.

Keep very clear, detailed and accurate records of everything that you do and make sure that HR know that you are doing this. Get them so sign that they have recieved and understood everything that you have given them. This part is playing them at their own game. Sometimes it worries them

Funny how non-profits can be so ruthless...

When i was in college i worked for the YMCA, folding towels for a few bucks an hour and a free membership. My next door neighbor and good freind were supposed to go fishing that Sunday. By Monday night we found out he hadn't been to work, killed himself that weekend. I found out when i came home and the cops were at the door. Had to talk to the cops, his boss (who found him) make a statement etc. Obviously i was a little broken up.
I called in to the Y (i forget if i was working that night or the next morning) and asked to be cancelled. The manager at the desk asked if i was sick. I told him the truth (good Christian thing telling the truth right?) He said that it was an unapproved absence and i'd have to come in or be reported to the boss. I (teary) emphasised that my best freind just shot and killed himself and i was in no shape to work.
I got two angry calls from my boss, went in the next day and got fired. She wasn't even a bit apologetic about it. Even told me that if i'd just said sick that it wouldn't have been a problem. (I asked what kind of Christian message it was to encourage people to lie...) She got all testy at that and revoked my membership, asked me to leave! I looked her straight in the eye and asked her what she would have done if her friend killed themselves and if that shouldn't qualify for an acceptable sick call. She straight faced told me that the priorities of my position (one of 3 five buck an hour towel folders) was more important than any of our 'little emotional' problems...
I wasn't upset, just aghast that the manager of a YMCA could be so cold hearted.

Moral to the story, i'm not sure. But i kept at school, got a better job and feel nothing but pity for the poor woman. In one instant i knew there waas never a place for me at that company, that if i had bent to their wishes (lied) i'd have compromised my integrity. There's a certain ammount of "putting up with stuff" that's part of the job. But at some point you have to look at a company that's going to write you up for doing what's arguably the right thing and decide whether it's somewhere you want to be...

I say try and stick it to 'em!
Get something in writing/signed by your employer and get any/all paperwork you can regarding your position (Job description, papers you signed when you were hired.). Then, try hitting up the ACLU. If that doesn't work, and you're lucky, the paper/s won't mention that you have to use the car, or that the car even needs to be in running condition. Then pay off your tickets, buy the cheapest thing you can that's either running or towable, insure it, and let it rust (If you have a place to park it.).

I'm late to the party again. He's already copped enough flak about being irresponsible and all that, so I'll skip over that and get to the point.

Are you sure this is about owning a car? Seems to me like the issue is your CDL. You could go out and buy a totalled piece of crap for $50, but that wouldn't satisfy your employer. It's the fact that you are unlicensed. Specifically, you have a suspended license. Are there company cars or pool cars? Even if you don't drive one, a non-profit has to have insurance coverage for their vehicles and drivers. By not having a license, you are a liability to them, as well as a limited resource. If you were to drive a company car, you put the company at risk. By not being able to drive a car at all, you have possibly limited your potential value to the company.

I would suggest you gather up whatever paperwork you have from the courts, and anything you have showing the car was totalled. Then get yourself a court date. If you go in and show the judge that your worst crime is ignorance (and maybe a bit of foolishness) he or she may be able to show some leniency. Good luck.

I'm not a lawyer, but I deal with these issues as an employer.

If you have an employment contract or are covered under a union contract, then the provisions of the contract should apply.

If you don't have a contract, then you are probably an "at will" employee and can be terminated for any reason that doesn't voilate anti-discrimination or equal rights laws. You might have a legal case if you are in a "protected" class and can show that the firing was because you were of that class.

Sorry!

Assuming that you boss is honest about not having a car is the reason for the problem, getting your license back and signing up for Flexcar mighT be your best way to go.

You can go to the courts still and ask why this is on your record even though the car was totalled and get it wiped off. That saves you $650.

The other question is how long during this job have you been with out a car.

You can go to the courts still and ask why this is on your record even though the car was totalled and get it wiped off. That saves you $650.

The other question is how long during this job have you been with out a car.

She'll still need to plead ingnorance. I've been in court when someone came in with the same situation. In my younger days, I spent a lot of time in traffic court.

i've been waiting 3 months for my court date (finally, it's next tuesday!). as soon as i found out it was suspended, i called and spent 45 minutes convincing then to allow for another date.

i have been in this department for three years, 1 year in my current position. i've had a car for about a grand total of 4 months during this time and was hired with my employer having full knowledge of my carless status.

i was going to buy my friends toyota off of him as soon as the license was cleared. not that my employers had even asked about this before hand. it's all come to a head not two weeks before the problem would have been solved. i guess ultimately the solution is already in play, however i continue to feel the indignation of knowing that i am less of a person for not having a car and the hurt that comes with knowing your employers would put a car above a valuable and reliable person.

How does your employer know you don't have a car?

Al

I pick my job and my housing based on the fact that I do not have a car. I assume, as you used to be closer that it factored in to your decision to take this position.

The best job security in the world these days is to keep a positive and can do attitude and an open mind. Those qualities can take you to another employer or you can compromise at your current position. The choice and the power ultimately are in your hands.

Staying and driving might be the best thing or it might not. Good luck and sorry to hear about your situation.

Sounds like the issue isn't that you don't have a car it's that it takes you too long to travel while on the clock. Perhaps you could get a nice motorscooter so you can still enjoy low gas costs and the feeling of being outside.

I still feel the issue is not the car, it's the license.

and for the record, i had wrongly assumed that the court system and the dmv had some sort of interaction with each other that would show the car was totaled before the court date... i admit now that it was an illogical train of thought.

Dammit that happened to me too! They don't tell you when they suspend your license even though you've shown up to court and asked for an extension. Then when you're all clear with the court you're still on the hook to clean it up with the DMV.

Sorry to hear about your situation, I hope it works out for you. This is part of the reason I don't live in LA anymore... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

when interviewing for this position i made it clear that i did not have a car. when asked about transportation i had replied that i know every bus route in and out of this city like the back of my hand and that seemed good enough for them at the time.

i doubt it's the not having a license, expatriate. we have only 2 company cars being used, one is used by a program the entire working day and the other is used for operation runs and supply pickups. never have they extended the offer of letting me use a company car, and when the license was valid, i used it only twice when i had to do an emergency fill in.

the issue does seem to be that it takes too much time for travel, but that wasn't the case when i took the position. in the move, we went from having the bus stop right in front of the building to having to do a ten minute bike ride/or 25 minute walk up a hill.

i wish i could get a moped! those things are boss! too bad there's only street parking at my building.

i think i got a shot at a position through the county though. they know how to treat a person right, shure thing!

Go get a license which allows you to travel to and from work only.

I'm gonna weigh in here. I work as a newspaper reporter.

It's iffy if most papers would pick up on this without a lawsuit being filed, at least in these parts. Otherwise it is usually seen as more complaining and less action. But it contains an aubudance of something journalists search for: conflict.

Here's what you are going to have to keep in mind if you go to the media. We are very aware people come to us with agendas. You have one to push. Don't try to hide that. But the fuel crisis can be used to your advantage. More people are commuting to work by bicycle because of it.

Also, keep in mind, responsible media WILL seek out your employers side. If they have a legitamate gripe, you could be blindsided and your chances to address the situation may be lost.

My suggestion, if you go that route and take your story to the media, would be to find a respected alternative news source in your city and pitch your story to them first.

Go get a license which allows you to travel to and from work only.

That's a restriction they can out on a license, once it's not suspended. To/from work, to/from school, and driving during the course of employment. Been there, done that. But since she's had her license suspended over a rather trivial matter, that shouldn't apply. And she still needs to get her license back first.

Prevention is the best cure. For future reference, If you had shown the cop the bulb and asked him if he had a screwdriver, he might have either helped you or let you go.

I agree with those who say a little media exposure might not hurt and that knowing your legal situation is exactly might also help.

This is definitely a power play. I've learned that in any period everyone makes enough mistakes and does enough good that it's mostly the way superiors choose to view your performance that decides whether its a failure or triumph.

Pedaling in the field? Maybe they should provide you a car? A company should provide you with the tools you need to perform your duties. It's one of the requirements for being an employer.

Good luck.

I agree with those who say a little media exposure might not hurt and that knowing your legal situation is exactly might also help.

Any attempt to involve outsiders in this dispute, especially mass media, had better be done from a position of great strength or desperation. A media story that puts one's employer in a bad light is not the fastest way to the top. In this case, it might be easier all around for the employee to just get his license back and get an inexpensive car. I actually surprised that the OP's "failure to appear" fine hasn't caused him more trouble than it has. In Texas, failure to appear for a court case will get a warrant issued for your arrest.



Pedaling in the field? Maybe they should provide you a car? A company should provide you with the tools you need to perform your duties. It's one of the requirements for being an employer.

How many pizza parlors provide delivery vehicles these days? Many, if not most, manufacturing jobs require employees to furnish their own common hand tools.

after 4 years at this company, and 1 year in my current position sans car for the majority of this time...

I WAS F\/|<*|\|G WRITTEN UP FOR NOT HAVING A CAR!

i now have 1 month to come up with enough money to buy a car, renew my insurance, cover court costs for a suspended license ($650 for having a breaklight out), and pay off all my parking tickets(*shrugs* i live in LA...), otherwise i am subject to further disciplinary action up to or including termination.

WRITTEN UP FOR BEING POOR AND UNLUCKY!

only in america...

i can't wait to take on the joys of car ownership after years without.

Perhaps I am wrong, and I probably am but it sounds like you MIGHT be in the cross-hairs for being terminated. Employers find ways to accommodate employees they want to keep and find stupid things to complain about employees they want to cull.

You might want to start looking for new work, if not to protect yourself from unemployment, then to find a better and more liberal employer.

I often use my truck for work. I probably wouldn't even own it if it wasn't for work (I commute by bike usually, unless heading out of town), but I bill it out at 48.5 cents per mile. This more than pays for the vehicle if you drive it enough ($23,000 billed and couting on a $16,000 truck). If you are getting paid hourly while riding around for errands, I can sympathize with the employer if it takes someone a lot longer to do the task. Still, if you are getting paid at the same time, the employer should either pay mileage or provide a company car.

Sorry guys, I am just not buying any of this. Way too may contradictions in the story and an employers side that does not make sense.

Second, go to the media. It may be hard to "sell" the story to an editor, but chances are a TV station or paper may be interested in what is going on. Media attention is a great way to force negotiations.


I write about cycling issues for a paper in NC... I'd be all over your story if it happened around here. Have you tried yet talking with any media outlets? I'd love to hear how it goes.

How does your employer know you don't have a car?

Al
I asked this question for a reason. Your mode of transport to/from work should ideally be transparent to your employeer. Think about how they know and close those gaps. (i.e. get to work on time and clean, don't talk about it, don't make excuses because of your transport mode, get to offsite meetings on time, etc.)

Al