Tandem Cycling - Our new Trek is ready to go (4 pics)

We'll, I've got the basic fine tuning done. Nothing fancy:

5 red Elite cages
Blackburn Frame Pump for backup (CO2 in the bag)
2 Trek Bags
2 Cateye Mity 8's
Fizi:k Gel inserts (stoker and captain)
Ritchey dual sided SPD's
Burley Moose Rack for the Piccolo's
Italian Bar End Mirror

At first I thought I liked the seat, now I not totally sure, but I'll give it a couple more rides. It has TI rails, and is a better factory seat, but the butt knows.

Other mods will include an Arai brake, brake booster, and a Garmin GPS I got for my birthday that is still not availalbe. I also might try a red bar tape and will add a little red on the tires when I replace the OEM Bontragers. I still can't get over how smooth the bike rides, from shifting to just flying down the road. A big step up from our starter Fuji (and the Fuji wasn't that bad).

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/bikes/trekt2000a.jpg

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/bikes/trekt2000b.jpg

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/bikes/trekt2000c.jpg

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/bikes/trekt2000d.jpg

Thanks for Looking - John

Nice bike! How do you like that bar end mirror?

I've love it on my road bike. Not much experience on the tandem yet. I assume it will work as well. It doesn't give you as large a view as a bigger Blackburn, but is nice and tucked in, doesn't vibrate, and keeps me from looking over my shoulder, although I still will double check for turns etc...

John

BEAUTIFUL bike! How much for everything?

I guess about $200 + the pedals, the rack came with the Piccolo, we had some of the stuff from our other tandem. I'm a big sale hound.

John

We like any color as long as its RED!
Now you need to buy a couple green jerseys and do a X-mas ride (if it's not snowing)!
. . . and if it is snowing put on some knobby/studded tires.
Looks great!

Sharp bike! Thanks for posting the pix.

-Greg

Which Trek bag do you have under the stokers handlebars?

So nice! Well appointed......

John:

It would appear as though your timing cranks are set such that your stoker is leading by a few degrees; is that intentional? If not, you may want to loosen the eccentric and advance your stoker's cranks by one or two teeth and then reset the eccentric.

Are you using the brake booster to eliminate the in-line rear brake cable adjuster? As I understand it, Trek recognized that once you had the rear Avid canti brakes adjusted for proper brake performance, wheel removal without deflating the tire was no longer possible since there wasn't enough cable slack to permit removal of the straddle cable. So, they installed the silver in-line brake cable adjusted between the STI lever and first cable stop which, when unscrewed, gives you enough cable slack to permit removal of the rear brake's straddle cable.

Finally, you might want to check the drive chain length to ensure it will wrap without binding in the big chainring / big cog combination. Some folks here took delivery of an '05 Trek and the chain shipped with the tandem too short which resulted in some nasty binding when they inadvertently ended up shifting into that big/big combo. The LBS said that Trek intentionally shipped it that way and after checking with a friend at Trek we discovered -- as one would have expected -- that was not the case.

Right, now that looks really nice, but I have no idea whatsoever as to what components you use on a tandem, and I've always wondered. Any chance of a more detailed spec?

Looks profesh! Really smart and sexy. How do you make the two sets of pedals work together? What are the cogs that link the two cranksets like - are they Shimano or something?

Any info greatly appreciated and congrats again for a superb ride.

Right, now that looks really nice, but I have no idea whatsoever as to what components you use on a tandem, and I've always wondered. How do you make the two sets of pedals work together? What are the cogs that link the two cranksets like - are they Shimano or something?

Tandems use the same drive train components as a regular bicycle with two exceptions: the timing (aka. sync) chain and rings used to connect the captain's & stoker's cranks and a chain tensioning device for the timing chain which, these days, is accomplished with an eccentric bottom bracket usually installed in an oversized bottom bracket (an eccentric bottom bracket) at the captain's crank position.

You can read more about sync chains here: http://sheldonbrown.com/synchain.html

As for the other component differences:

Drive train: Tandems typically come with triple cranks and wide range rear cassettes that necessitate a wide range rear derailleur. Until Shimano & Campagnolo more recently brought back triples to their upper-end component lines, most stock tandems were using Shimano XT or XTR off-road rear derailleurs.

Brakes: With the exception of what are marketed as racing tandems, most other road models use cantilever or linear pull brakes which accommodate larger diameter tires and mud guards and, in theory, are more powerful than calipers. While the caliper argument was probably true back in the 70's, current models provide more than adequate braking performance. The installation of an auxiliary "drag" brake which R900 mentions (aka, an Arai drum brake) is also fairly common for larger teams, folks who do loaded touring, or anyone who has a need to ride the brakes down hills as a way of controlling the speed on the descents that, if you attempted to do so with rim brakes, could overheat the rims and lead to what is referred to as a tire blow-off: something that can happen as the tire heats up and the air expands in the tube under prolonged braking. More recently, disc brakes have started to appear on tandems as a way of providing a more robust braking system that mitigates the problems associated with rim heating and, for many teams, provides enough brake capacity to eliminate the need for an auxiliary drag brake.

Wheels: The higher rider weight loads demand a stronger set of wheels than a regular bike and tandem specific hubs with stronger axles are the norm, as is the use of the stronger deep section road rims, touring or XC rims.

Stokers: The stem used to connect the stoker's handlebars to the captains seat post is a tandem unique component; however, threadless stems can be used when super-long stems aren't required. Shock posts are also quite common as a way of providing the stoker with protection from rear wheel impacts.

Thanks! I feel fully informed now!

Happy riding.

How do you make the two sets of pedals work together?

With lots of patience and lots of talking, especially at first. ;)

-Greg

Very very nice looking!

PS I think your camera clock is flashing....lol

I recognize the Bontrager saddle like the one I had on my single-great for a 30 min ride but then painful. I am a fan of Brooks and replaced it with a B17.

Make that OUR:


Done, and btw nice tandem man!


hi565

Dynamite!

Dynamite!

Very Nice - Love all the red! :)

Wow, that is a nice RED color!! I'd like to have my 1992 OCLV single custom painted a nice red just like that.

Very nice looking tandem! Thanks for sharing the photos.

No, it is not intentional - the cranks are out of phase. We bought the bike at the Hilly Hundred and brought it home rather then going back to the dealer to pick it up. I doubt we'll get many miles this Fall, so we'll wait until the Spring check up and have it corrected. The LBS is about 80 miles away, I might look into it later myself, but I haven't noticed a big problem in our couple short rides.

No big deal about the brake booster, I recall lots of folks using them in my MTB days, and have read several tandem riders with booster, so I figured why not. Salsa makes a really cool carbon booster, but no rush.

I haven't removed the rear wheel yet, but didn't have any problem with the front. Yes, Trek's little adjuster seems like an after thought. It was in the short cable at the rear, banging the frame, so I moved it to the front. I just hate any half solution like that. I'll check the clearance for wheel removal before our next ride.


I haven't noticed any problems with the chain being short, but I do a double check next time I'm fooling with the bike.

Thanks for the insight, I appreciate any other thoughts you may have.

John



John:

It would appear as though your timing cranks are set such that your stoker is leading by a few degrees; is that intentional? If not, you may want to loosen the eccentric and advance your stoker's cranks by one or two teeth and then reset the eccentric.

Are you using the brake booster to eliminate the in-line rear brake cable adjuster? As I understand it, Trek recognized that once you had the rear Avid canti brakes adjusted for proper brake performance, wheel removal without deflating the tire was no longer possible since there wasn't enough cable slack to permit removal of the straddle cable. So, they installed the silver in-line brake cable adjusted between the STI lever and first cable stop which, when unscrewed, gives you enough cable slack to permit removal of the rear brake's straddle cable.

Finally, you might want to check the drive chain length to ensure it will wrap without binding in the big chainring / big cog combination. Some folks here took delivery of an '05 Trek and the chain shipped with the tandem too short which resulted in some nasty binding when they inadvertently ended up shifting into that big/big combo. The LBS said that Trek intentionally shipped it that way and after checking with a friend at Trek we discovered -- as one would have expected -- that was not the case.

Which Trek bag do you have under the stokers handlebars?

It's a 120 cu in Trek quick cleat bag. I just used some zip ties to strap it to the stem, I might use a velcro strap instead so I can more easily remove and replace the bag. If I do that I'll need to modify the plastic with a Dremel tool.

John

Thanks everyone, we originally were going to wait until the Spring to get a new tandem, but when we fell into an awesome deal on this '05 Trek, we moved up our plans a bit.

John

...we'll wait until the Spring check up and have it corrected. The LBS is about 80 miles away, I might look into it later myself, but I haven't noticed a big problem in our couple short rides.

Since the tandem is new, adjusting the eccentric "should" be relatively easy. Trek uses a wedge-type eccentric similar to Cannondale. There is a hex-head expander bolt on the drive-side of the eccentric that releases the tension holding the small wedge tight against the eccentric body. You use a t-handle hex driver (4mm? perhaps 5mm, I forget but it's in that size range) to loosen the expander bolt and then, per the Trek manual, you "tap it" to drive apart the two pieces of the eccentric. If it doesn't come loose, there are some other tricks that can be used to persuade it to come loose. The more frequently you service the eccentric -- basically pulling one of the cranks (very easy as Trek uses self-extracting crank bolts on the tandem +++), then loosening & removing the eccentric, followed up with a cleaning & relube -- will ensure it will always be easy to remove and adjust. If left untouched for thousands of miles grit and grime can work into the eccentric making it really tough to remove.

On the crank timing, the only thing to keep in mind is that who ever is "leading" will encounter a bit more resistance with each turn of the cranks. Some stokers like this as provides them with positive pedal feedback that can sometimes be lost if the cranks are in perfect phase or if the captain is leading. The down side can be that stokers may tire faster. Just something to consider and experiment with... which harkens back to why its a good idea to master adjusting your own eccentric. As you'll find in the archives, once you know how to adjust the tension you can even figure out how much tension to use that ensures the chain won't have too much slack, but enough to let you "roll it off" the timing rings without loosening the eccentric... a handy "trick" for adjusting phase when experimenting or off-bike chain cleaning.

The in-line adjuster isn't all that awful and it's the lessor of two evils vs. not having the brake blocks as close to the rim as possible for maximum braking power. It's just one of those things that has a specific purpose that some bike shops who sell the Trek tandems don't even understand and, as a result, the rear brakes don't get adjusted to provide optimum rear brake power OR owners who have a need to remove their rear wheels find themselves having to deflate the tire to get past what appears to be a brake that does not have a release mechanism.

No big deal about the brake booster, I recall lots of folks using them in my MTB days, and have read several tandem riders with booster, so I figured why not. Salsa makes a really cool carbon booster, but no rush.John

Nice bike, eh.

We have the same bike and found that the braking improved substantially with the addition of a brake booser on the front.

I also went to a v-brake with travel agent on the rear to get away from the way Trek did it. This, of course, interfered with the way I had the rear rack mounted, so a solution was required. I met one couple who converted to a rear disk setup using the provision for a drum brake.

Ours stops quite well now.

Nice ride! Where did you get the mirror? Very cool and I have never seen anything like it. Have to get one for my tandem since I will be pulling a little on in a trailer in about 1.5 years.

Beautiful ride!

Thanks everyone.

As for the mirror, it's not great with the trailer, since the trailer blocks a fair bit of the small mirror. However, I love it without the trailer and on my road bike. The only place I've seen them is on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Italian-ROAD-BIKE-un-helmet-MIRROR-bicycle-mirrors_W0QQitemZ7194316277QQcategoryZ42319QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

TandemGeek,

Thanks, I checked the big/big chain tension and it seemed to shift just fine, so at Trek must have had the short chain issue solved by our build date.

I also played with the timing chain, played as I didn't know exactly what to do. I was able to get the cranks within a degree of phase, very close. My lack of knowledge came in tightening the eccentric. It was/is difficult to know how tight is to tight. At first I was able to deflect the chain 1/2" with a fair amount of perssure, this seemed too tight, so I checked our Fuji. The timing chain on our Fuji was very loose. So I loosened the chain on the Trek and it seems about right, easier to deflect with less pressure, but not as loose as the Fuji's. I'll still have the dealer check it in the Spring, but I think it will be ok. Also are there special tools to assist in the process? I was able to do ok, without any damage, but it seems like a special wrench would help the process.

Finally, hopefully the booster will stiffen up the rear brakes a tad. The adjuster is fine, but they located it right along the frame so it was banging the frame and paint. I moved it to the front, not as handy, but clear of any obstructions.

Thanks again - John





John:

It would appear as though your timing cranks are set such that your stoker is leading by a few degrees; is that intentional? If not, you may want to loosen the eccentric and advance your stoker's cranks by one or two teeth and then reset the eccentric.

Are you using the brake booster to eliminate the in-line rear brake cable adjuster? As I understand it, Trek recognized that once you had the rear Avid canti brakes adjusted for proper brake performance, wheel removal without deflating the tire was no longer possible since there wasn't enough cable slack to permit removal of the straddle cable. So, they installed the silver in-line brake cable adjusted between the STI lever and first cable stop which, when unscrewed, gives you enough cable slack to permit removal of the rear brake's straddle cable.

Finally, you might want to check the drive chain length to ensure it will wrap without binding in the big chainring / big cog combination. Some folks here took delivery of an '05 Trek and the chain shipped with the tandem too short which resulted in some nasty binding when they inadvertently ended up shifting into that big/big combo. The LBS said that Trek intentionally shipped it that way and after checking with a friend at Trek we discovered -- as one would have expected -- that was not the case.

I also played with the timing chain, played as I didn't know exactly what to do.

Playing is a good thing... so long as you never force anything or break out the ratchet and breaker bars for "minor" adjustments.

Here are some links to some of my previous posts related to the eccentric and timing chains that may be of interest. There are others out there that may also be of interest but these are the ones that came up on a simple search:

Setting Timing Chain Tension
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1375947&postcount=16
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1384113&postcount=2

Installing & aligning timing rings:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1251903&postcount=5

Removing, servicing, and reinstalling eccentrics:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1484948&postcount=2