Fifty Plus (50+) - Gearing Options............?

Today I rode 38 miles with about 200' of elevation change and I'm still looking
for another bottle of pain killer/miracle energy drink. Next year I hope to ride
portions of the Blue Ridge Parkway which means I either stroke out or change
my gearing. Frankly, I don't care about top speed. Anything over thirty is a
bit scary.

My bike is a 2004 Trek 1200 with a stock triple. The front is probably a
30-39-52 and the back is 12-24. What are my options?

Do people keep a second rear wheel with lower gearing or do I have to change
the front rings? How low can I go and do I need to change the changers....couldn't
resist.

I posted here because I thought the crowd in mechanics would be much younger.


LastPlace

I have a Trek 1000, live on top of Lookout Mt., and have many big rollers that put me in much pain. I droped my 30in ring and installed a "24"in inter ring. That was the best improvement I've made yet. I changed out my 12x25 cassette for an 11x32. I did have to change out my R/D to a (MTB) LX m570 to wrap the extra chain. I now look forward to the hills, and saving my knees for another day. Have a great ride next time out!

Road Runner,

Great, that's exactly what I was looking for. Can you tell me what your changes cost, and
did you do the changes yourself or did you get the lbs to do it? If you had it to do over would
you go lower or change less?


LastPlace

You said 38 miles and 200 feet, not 2,000 feet?
The LBS charged me $45 for a cassette on one bike, and $70 installed for a derailleur on another one. If you swap out the derailleur for the longest cage MTB one, you should be able to put on an 11-34 rear cassette. If you decide to also swap out the chainrings, you could get a touring triple with 28/38/48 rings. The front derailleur can handle a 22 tooth total difference, so you could change the little ring to a 26.

Dchiefransom,

Yes I said 200 feet, not two thousand. That is why I know I need lower gearing since I'm not
likely to get much stronger over the winter months. I will be talking to the lbs but I want
as much information as possible going in.

I have already upgraded the front changer from 105 to Ultegra so I am hoping not to change that
again but I am not opposed to upgrading the rear changer. Thanks again.


LastPlace

You wouldn't need to swap out the front changer, just the gears up front. That would be expensive. Depending on your shop, you might get away with $10-15 for labor for swapping out the stuff in back. Make sure they give you the longest cage derailleur in the Shimano line. They put a Doere LX on mine.
I have a 7 speed with a 28/38/48 up front, and a 14-32 cassette in the back. I can spin along at 26 mph in my top gears.

The Blue ridge parkway can easily give you 5000' elevation change per 50-75mi of linear travel, and some areas can double this. Low gears are not the answer as pedaling slower than 3.5mph leads to problems maintaining your balance. You may need lower gears and the ways mentioned will do this, but unless you contemplate loaded touring the answer is not in the gearing but in the motor.
Steve

I ride a Tandem and that thing can be heavy. We use front chainrings of 48/36/24 and rear cassette of 11/32. This is ridden offroad so I doubt that you would have to go that low, but the 36/32 does get used a lot. On top speed- we can still pedal thing up to around 40 mph but that is with a very high cadence.

We find that this gearing is ideal for us- Low enough for the steapest hills, but high enough to get a good high speed. Mind you if we were on the road more often, I think we would stay with the same rear cassette, but go to possibly 52/40/30 on the front.

Yes I said 200 feet, not two thousand. That is why I know I need lower gearing since I'm not
likely to get much stronger over the winter months. I will be talking to the lbs but I want
as much information as possible going in.

Yes you CAN increase your strength during the winter months. Folks do that all the time, including me. Get yourelf a trainer and several Spinerval videos/cd's, set up a schedule and go to it. Get a gym membership and strengthen your entire body, not just your legs, especially your back and abs and glutes.

You can get a tremendous workout this way.

I had my small front chain ring changed from 30 to 28 with little expense and no shifting problems. Gives the equivalent of one lower gear. I did this so I could more easily do Colorado mountains such as Vail Pass (going from 8,400 feet to 10,600 feet in 12.5 miles) and similar.

Shimano maintains a chart of "allowable" ring changes which your LBS should have. You can exceed this but may have shifting problems.

But you really need to work on the motor! 200' is not much of a challenge, and unless it is like a 10-12% grade for that 200', you shouldn't even notice it. Maybe it was mostly the 38 miles?

As a first step towards making changes in gearing on the bike, I'd simply swap the rear cassette to a 12-27. As far as I nkow, the 27 is the "easiest" cassette you can get in a Shimano that will work with your existing rear derailleur.

Next step is to work on the "motor". I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised at how much better you'll get at climbing by just getting out and doing some climbing over and over. I've found no better way to improve on hills than to go out and do hills-of course losing a little weight doesn't hurt matters either. You might not notice the difference overnight but you WILL notice a large improvement over time.

I'm not a strong climber but I've done the hardest stretches on the BR Parkway and can do them in a 30/24 with a cadence of 65-75 rpm but sometimes use the 27 just to give my legs a break. Unless you're going to have a heavy load on your bike I would think you'd be able to do the same.

If you find you need more relief than the 12-27. The next most logical step is to install a MTN bike rear derailleur with a longer cage that will allow you to put on up to a 34 rear cassette. This is a huge jump from the 27.......

If the 34 is still not "easy" enough gearing, then take a look at changing the front derailleur to something that will allow you to have a 26 or 28 in the front chain ring.

I think I've listed this in an order that's from most practical/least expensive to most expensive so it allows you to only spend what you really need to spend.

I hope this helps.

jppe,

Thanks for the advice.....especially the cost factoring. In addition to being fresh meat and just
approacing 1k miles I have two bad knees so I will be happy to spin my way up, but I had not
thought about the balance issue that SCH mentioned. I will be taking the bike to the lbs this
weekend to get the grim numbers.

As for the BRP, my current plan is to drive up the night before and ride out from the car and
retrace my steps unless I can ....con....er ..encourage someone to take a second car and endure
the same pain. Thanks again.


LastPlace

Back to last place...This is a very reasonable priced upgrade that you will enjoy doing most of, if not all of, yourself. I chose a 24in./74mm, (Stronglight made) from Nashbar for 9.99 on sale. You can remove your 30in. chainring, and reinstall this 24 in. ring with no problem. Next, you can get a Sram PG 970, 11x32 from Jenson for 34.95(I have a 8 sp., so my cassette cost less) You can remove and replace your cassette, by buying a lock ring tool(about $5.00), and chain whip(as cheap as $9.00,from Nashbar). After removing the rear wheel, remove the lock nut. The old unit slides off, and you slide the new cassette on, torque the lock nut per instructions. To save time, I went to my LBS to choose a R/D. We agreeded on the Shimano delore LX M570 (8 or 9 speed),and they installed it and a new Sram chain. I like this set-up real well, some say I don't need the 11in gear, that I should use a 12in instead. I think I need it to get the "return" back, going down the descents. If you need more info. let me know.

I'm a low-gear fanatic, with triples on everything I own, and I've replaced those useless standard 30t rings with 24s and 26s--but I agree with the posts that say you need some work on the motor.
You're already geared fairly low, though I definitely would swap the cassette for the biggest I could run with my current driveline (probably 27t, but I'm not absolutely sure). But (not to slam you), 200 feet of climbing isn't much in 38 miles. There are plenty of hills where I live that go up 15 to 20 times that much in 10 miles or so.
The good news is that improvement comes fast at first, so you'll get better in a hurry. It also will help, if you're carrying a few extra pounds, to take them off. Fortunately, riding helps with that, too. As you climb, you'll get faster and lighter, which will make you climb better...just keep riding.

I'm a low-gear fanatic, with triples on everything I own, and I've replaced those useless standard 30t rings with 24s and 26s--but I agree with the posts that say you need some work on the motor.
You're already geared fairly low, though I definitely would swap the cassette for the biggest I could run with my current driveline (probably 27t, but I'm not absolutely sure). But (not to slam you), 200 feet of climbing isn't much in 38 miles. There are plenty of hills where I live that go up 15 to 20 times that much in 10 miles or so.
The good news is that improvement comes fast at first, so you'll get better in a hurry. It also will help, if you're carrying a few extra pounds, to take them off. Fortunately, riding helps with that, too. As you climb, you'll get faster and lighter, which will make you climb better...just keep riding.

I like Velo Dog am a low gear fanatic. I have a C200 hybrid that has a 42/32/20 set of chainrings and 9 speed cassette with 11/34 on the rear. I have road wheels on the bike using Stelvio tires. I did the Skyline Drive this past August on that bike and never had to use the small chainring unless I just wanted a break. I am about to purchase (if the shop can get me comfortable on the bike) an aluminum Cannondale Synapse. I am going to have the 11/34 cassette installed on that bike. The front will have 52/42/30 chainrings on it but given the reputation of the Cannondale frames I am hoping that I will not have to go any lower than the rings that are on the bike. My first road bike...we will see.

If you don't have the low gears you can't use them. If you do have low gears and don't need them...don't. I am a firm believer that it is better to have too low of a gear and not use it than wishing that you did have and can't use it.

I did the Skyline Drive this past August on that bike and never had to use the small chainring unless I just wanted a break.

If you don't use them, then why go to the expense and trouble?

Velo,
Didn't take your comment to be a slam at all. I know that two hundred feet is trivial, especially
since I want to do the BRP. I know this is a very broad statement but I think that bikes are marketed
to younger people since that has probably been the traditional buying market. With old farts
like us biking maybe gearing will change a bit on future offerings.

DnvrFox,
To me it is like a fire extinguisher. If you need it, it is too late to run down to the hardware
store and ask for one to go. The weight is probably trivial, especially after you add my 200 pounds
to the bike. Thanks for all the help.

In all probability I will look at swapping the cassette as a first move and go from there.

LastPlace

DnvrFox,
To me it is like a fire extinguisher. If you need it, it is too late to run down to the hardware
store and ask for one to go. The weight is probably trivial, especially after you add my 200 pounds
to the bike. Thanks for all the help.

In all probability I will look at swapping the cassette as a first move and go from there.

LastPlace

Well, it sounds llike you are rapidly moving towards mtn bike gearing.

Why not just get a mtn bike that is already set up pretty close to what you want in terms of gears?

They are not that much heavier, and lots and lots of folks use just standard old mtn bikes for touring. Met a guy who had toured the world on his mtn bike and loved it.

Put some slicks on and pedal away.

I did the Ride the Rockies (350 miles and over 15,000 feet of vertical ascent) in 1998 (http://ridetherockies.com/?page=history&year=1998) on a $300 mtn bike. A bit slow, but then so would be your granny gears you are contemplating. And a mtn bike on the small chain ring and large cassette is geared very low, indeed.

Just a thought.

BTW, I am an even older "fart" than you are (I am 66yo) and I ride a standard bicycle (Lemond Buenos Aires and Windsor Leeds) that is also sold to the younger crowd and do fine. But, then, I don't really consider myself old. Perhaps a matter of attitude and perception?

DnvrFox,

As it turns out I gave away my mtn. bike just before I got my road bike. We all live and
learn. Also, at this point, getting new gearing would probably be cheaper and I learn a great
deal in the process. Thanks for the help.

LastPlace

If you don't use them, then why go to the expense and trouble?

Because that one time that you need them it will be worth having them especially if you are new to riding. If you live where there are hills...gear low until you become stronger.

Because that one time that you need them it will be worth having them especially if you are new to riding. If you live where there are hills...gear low until you become stronger.

Under the same theory, how many tubes should I carry or water bottles or gel capsules. Is there ever enough for all emergencies? If worse comes to worse, get off the bike and walk. I have done that a time or two.

Under the same theory, how many tubes should I carry or water bottles or gel capsules. Is there ever enough for all emergencies? If worse comes to worse, get off the bike and walk. I have done that a time or two.

If you are not geared for the hills you will walk...more than a time or two. Gear low and ride.

Guys,

Just looking for advice....didn't mean to create any hard feelings. To expand on the knee
issue.....both have been 'scoped once so mashing is not an option. One knee feels like it needs
a do-over and the plastic hip will be here far quicker than I want.

As for the gearing, I want to do a lot of longer rides with hills so different gears are not an
option; its just a matter of how I achieve lower gearing. Relax and thanks for all the help.

LastPlace

Didn't have time to read the entire thread, but Jenson has an excellent deal on an XT long body RD, $39.95. I have an XT on our tandem, and love it. OHB

Is there ever enough for all emergencies? If worse comes to worse, get off the bike and walk. I have done that a time or two.

On the emergency side of gearing- We rarely use the small front ring on the Tandem onroad, but it is always there. Last week we took in a hill that had a 20% section in it. Two choices--Stay in middle ring and this would give us a lowest gear of 36/32, or play safe and go into the small ring on the front- a 24- and find a comfortable rear sprocket. No idea what it was but we did finish up at the steep part dropping into 24/21. Still think we could have done it in middle, but we may have struggled a bit. By the way- We try not to get off and walk as that Tandem is heavy to push.

What I have found though is that over the years, my cycling capabilities have increased. Hills that defeated me in the early years are rarely walked now. Probably down to fitness and strength but also due to a certain amount of resource management. I no longer hit the hills at speed- so do not run out of energy before the top. Take it steady all the way up and catch the fitun's just before the top.

If you are not geared for the hills you will walk...more than a time or two. Gear low and ride.

Okay - I can agree within reason. I guess, just HOW low does a person need? But, I admit that depends on the person. However, I still think it is also important to work on the motor, and that low gearing should not be a replacement for a good training program.

The OP stated that he could not make any physical progress during the off-biking-season,



Yes I said 200 feet, not two thousand. That is why I know I need lower gearing since I'm not
likely to get much stronger over the winter months. I will be talking to the lbs but I want
as much information as possible going in.

which is absolutely not true, and that this was the reason why he wanted the lower gearing, not necessarily the hills.

I still think it was the 38 miles, not the 200 feet elevation rise, that caused his fatigue.

But enough of this. I will go away and cherish my young 66 years!

I am about to purchase (if the shop can get me comfortable on the bike) an aluminum Cannondale Synapse. I am going to have the 11/34 cassette installed on that bike. The front will have 52/42/30 chainrings on it but given the reputation of the Cannondale frames I am hoping that I will not have to go any lower than the rings that are on the bike. My first road bike...we will see.


Let us know how you like the Synapse - I have my eye on the carbon version...

I've combined a 12x25 with a 11x28 to create a 12x28 mixture.
The extra gears are helpful for long rides with multiple climbs.
It's relatively easy to change cassettes, so you can change
the whole cassette or a ring or two.
I'm now thinking of a 13x30 and 700x32 tires for a near-cyclocross bike.
That should help with the dirt roads that abound around here.

Let us know how you like the Synapse - I have my eye on the carbon version...

I sure will let you know about the Synapse. I am getting excited about having one that will fit my needs. The shop told me that fitting the bike to me will not be a problem. If everything goes well Saturday the lbs will start to assemble the bike to my fit my taste. I hope to pick it up by mid week. I have a short run that I make on my C200 that I have timed. The test will be after I get the Synapse on how much quicker I can make that run. It is only 1.3 miles but it is up hill for 3/4s of that distance. If I don't knock at least 30 seconds off of the time I will be disappointed. If I don't knock anytime off of the clock I will feel that I have wasted my money.