Commuting - How to get drivers attention when they are cutting you off?

Bells aren't working. whistles are too slow. Airzounds does not have a good reputation for getting rapid response from motorists. My guess is the decibel reading is too close to the unit, and after you get 25+ feet away it's not all that loud.

Is there a better solution? Something loud, easy to mount, not too heavy, and easy to trigger?

There's always the air can, ala marine air horn. I would think a 6v or 12v car/truck/motorcycle horn might be the best. But I don't know how to create such a system. Ideal sound would be like a semi's horn, but I think that might be way too heavy.

Any good ideas?

I'm an ex-marine. I yell, drill-field style. No real time for much else.

I find that yelling works, with banging on the car as a backup.

Not to launch a VC diversion, but I generally find that if I'm being cut off a lot, it's because I'm not being assertive enough about maintaining my lane position.

yelling is the only thing that's going to work as fast as you like. plus you control the volume and words. i don't think you need to buy anything special.

Sounds like you're getting cut off an awful lot. Is there any particular scenario which happens more than any other? You might be able to modify your riding technique in order to preempt some of these close calls.

I ride in heavy traffic and have to tell ya that ultimately few drivers are going to pay any attention to any sort of noise you can generate. I stay upright by ascerting myselft through lane position and eye contact when necessary, as well as backing off and taking advantage of a clear shoulder, or even the sidewalk, if the situation demands it. It's better to retreat to ride another day, than end up under the front end of a buick.

DanO

Whatchu mean? Cutting you off as in pulling in front of you or across your path? I don't sweat it. If they can see me, I'll play chicken. Boston's notorious for the so-called Boston Left or left-of-way. If you're sitting at a light the moment it turns green, pull out and make your left before anyone gets into the intersection. Likewise, people like to push it if they're making a left on a green arrow or advanced green. If I'm coming from the oncoming direction and I can see that they think they're going to intimidate me, I'll keep heading into the intersection (and making sure that I'm prepared to stop or turn should my gameplan fail--but it hasn't yet).

Now if you mean they're merging into you, trying to force you from your lane position, I usually throw up the "hold back" sign (if they're coming from the right) or just pound the F out of their window.

See, I suspect most people who do this think they're just gently moving you out of the way. When you let them know that you know what their game is and that you will not bow to physical intimidation, it becomes a very different game.

Only once has someone not obeyed my command to leave me alone. That person was trying to pass me but didn't actually want to go fast enough to do so (cobblestone median). Instead they're riding down the median trying to merge into me with the horn blaring. There was no room for me to move over, so I simply waved my lock in their direction letting them know what would happen should they press their luck. They got back in line and I let them pass when it was safe for me to move over. In that case, the smarter thing probably would have been to slow down, but I didn't really feel like giving in.

You can't count on sound. Some drivers can't even hear police sirens thru their rolled up windows and blasting stereos.

Think about ways to avoid getting cut off in the first place.

Al

I didn't really feel like giving in.

good. there's a certain amount of pride at stake when you ride with traffic.

Whatchu mean? Cutting you off as in pulling in front of you or across your path? I don't sweat it. If they can see me, I'll play chicken. Boston's notorious for the so-called Boston Left or left-of-way. If you're sitting at a light the moment it turns green, pull out and make your left before anyone gets into the intersection. Likewise, people like to push it if they're making a left on a green arrow or advanced green. If I'm coming from the oncoming direction and I can see that they think they're going to intimidate me, I'll keep heading into the intersection (and making sure that I'm prepared to stop or turn should my gameplan fail--but it hasn't yet).

Now if you mean they're merging into you, trying to force you from your lane position, I usually throw up the "hold back" sign (if they're coming from the right) or just pound the F out of their window.

See, I suspect most people who do this think they're just gently moving you out of the way. When you let them know that you know what their game is and that you will not bow to physical intimidation, it becomes a very different game.

Only once has someone not obeyed my command to leave me alone. That person was trying to pass me but didn't actually want to go fast enough to do so (cobblestone median). Instead they're riding down the median trying to merge into me with the horn blaring. There was no room for me to move over, so I simply waved my lock in their direction letting them know what would happen should they press their luck. They got back in line and I let them pass when it was safe for me to move over. In that case, the smarter thing probably would have been to slow down, but I didn't really feel like giving in.


Great Post. As far as sound devices I would go with a really good ref whistle. Since most of the folks who pull this stuff are men, in my experience, they also react best to the whistle. I think it brings back subconscious memories of gym class or sports. They stop to see what's happening for usually long enough for you to assert your lane position or get by them. But of course only if they can hear it.

Whatchu mean? Cutting you off as in pulling in front of you or across your path? I don't sweat it. If they can see me, I'll play chicken. Boston's notorious for the so-called Boston Left or left-of-way. If you're sitting at a light the moment it turns green, pull out and make your left before anyone gets into the intersection. Likewise, people like to push it if they're making a left on a green arrow or advanced green. If I'm coming from the oncoming direction and I can see that they think they're going to intimidate me, I'll keep heading into the intersection (and making sure that I'm prepared to stop or turn should my gameplan fail--but it hasn't yet).

Now if you mean they're merging into you, trying to force you from your lane position, I usually throw up the "hold back" sign (if they're coming from the right) or just pound the F out of their window.

See, I suspect most people who do this think they're just gently moving you out of the way. When you let them know that you know what their game is and that you will not bow to physical intimidation, it becomes a very different game.

Only once has someone not obeyed my command to leave me alone. That person was trying to pass me but didn't actually want to go fast enough to do so (cobblestone median). Instead they're riding down the median trying to merge into me with the horn blaring. There was no room for me to move over, so I simply waved my lock in their direction letting them know what would happen should they press their luck. They got back in line and I let them pass when it was safe for me to move over. In that case, the smarter thing probably would have been to slow down, but I didn't really feel like giving in.

I was stopping in my car at a five way intersection on Lockwood not too long ago, because a flock of geese was actually walking across the intersection. To me it was no big deal. All the cars around me went ballistic. They went around me and would have plowed through the geese, but a pedstrian herded them back to the curb where they started from. It was not commuting time of the day either. Big deal, 30 second delay. :rolleyes:

One incident that triggered the question was a 20 something who stops at stop sign for full stop and then just when I get there pulls out. I had to slam on brakes to avoid hitting car. I'm not small and yellow jacket is not subtle, and driver just spaced out. We're talking about a residential street with speed limit of 25 and no other traffic in the morning.

I wouldn't have minded her running the stop sign, but stopping and then sliding just as I am
right on top of her is nasty. Yelling did not work. Radio probably up too loud.

Airzounds does not have a good reputation for getting rapid response from motorists.

I'm surprised at this. When I was using an Airzound, it never failed to get attention with a quick blast, unless the vehicle in question could be heard on the next block due to their way-too-loud music.

There are going to be those who just aren't looking for anything smaller than another car or truck. Their visual system seems to be limited to recognizing things only big enough to pose a threat to life and limb.

Then there are those who do see a bike, but lack the mental acuity to apprecite of how fast a bike can actually travel and/or the visual perception to track the oncoming cyclist's speed. They sincerly belive they could change CD's, light up a smoke, referee several children in the rear seat, organize their glove box and THEN pull out before you ever get close.

I would almost rather deal with drunks.

DanO

One of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children here. A la Spike bike, a grenade launcher works for me.

Seriously, it has gotten to the point where sound is rather ineffective, what with sealed windows, sound insulation & high wattage sound systems. But bellowing like an enraged DI does make me feel better.

Think about your lane position. Act like an Alpha user of the road, like DanO & bostontrevor, and you will be treated like an Alpha user. Act like a gutter bunny and you will get treated like a gutter bunny.

And bunny rabbits are prey.

One incident that triggered the question was a 20 something who stops at stop sign for full stop and then just when I get there pulls out. I had to slam on brakes to avoid hitting car. I'm not small and yellow jacket is not subtle, and driver just spaced out. We're talking about a residential street with speed limit of 25 and no other traffic in the morning.

I wouldn't have minded her running the stop sign, but stopping and then sliding just as I am
right on top of her is nasty. Yelling did not work. Radio probably up too loud.

There's always the option of plowing into her door and then billing her insurance for a new bike. ;)

I don't have a clue. Some drivers can't even bother to pay attention to Semi trucks when they are in a geo.

I could light myself up like a tree, wear the brightest colors made by man, gain 200 lbs, and yell constantly. These same morons will still try to hit me.

Heck, I'm related to one my marriage. My sister in-law has had many accidents. One with a motorcycle cop.

Short description of the thought process of said persons:
-open car door
-turn ignition on
-brain off
-drive

I'm an ex-marine. I yell, drill-field style. No real time for much else.

As an ex DI myself, even that don't freakin work either if they got their stereo blasting or are yakin on a cell phone. In them situations you just get your butt out of the way and either meet them again with a Ulock in hand, or swallow your quest for revenge and continue on.

One of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children here. A la Spike bike, a grenade launcher works for me.

Seriously, it has gotten to the point where sound is rather ineffective, what with sealed windows, sound insulation & high wattage sound systems. But bellowing like an enraged DI does make me feel better.

Think about your lane position. Act like an Alpha user of the road, like DanO & bostontrevor, and you will be treated like an Alpha user. Act like a gutter bunny and you will get treated like a gutter bunny.

And bunny rabbits are prey.

How about we just put together a platoon of us old jugheads to go town-to-town with our own version of Critical Mass...cept it's called Kickin-Some-Cager-Ass :eek:

Then there are those who do see a bike, but lack the mental acuity to apprecite of how fast a bike can actually travel and/or the visual perception to track the oncoming cyclist's speed.

Or it fails to register they need to do anything. A couple months ago, I riding 25+ and some woman suddenly passed and turned right in front of me. I did everything I could to avoid the car but flying into and over the back of it was unavoidable. The woman who almost took me out was distraught by the whole thing. The crash looked much worse than it really was, so witnesses were upset and wanted to call police, medical assistance, sign statements as to what they'd seen, and were really giving this poor woman a hard time. I found myself in the ironic position of doing my best to reassure and defend someone who almost put me in the hospital. She apologized profusely. She'd seen me, but somehow it didn't click that she needed to do anything.

The basic problem is that too many drivers do not associate the environment inside the car with the environment outside the car. The focus in driving has gone from guiding a few thousand pounds of metal through an obstacle course (which requires diligence and skill) to being entertained and comforted. Unfortunately, there is little the cyclist can do about this aside from being visible, assertive, and predictable.

If you even have time to reach for a horn or anything else, you're better off using that time to prevent the collision or to choose the one that will hurt the least. Yelling and hitting a car can be helpful in some cases but in an emergency situation, you don't have time to consider options. If you're trying to educate motorists, don't focus on the one that's causing the problem -- work on everyone else that's seeing the whole thing. If you provide a memorable experience that doesn't tick off others, people are more likely to become better drivers.

Teacher voice.

/thread

Good advise to a great post. Without consciously thinking about it, I employ a hierarchy of strategies.
1: Aggressive lane position
2: Eye contact -- always. It helps sometimes to point, gesture (hands up, like what are you going to do?).
3: If they appear to be spaced out or they even look like they're coming into my space, a shout.
4: If they keep coming, a sharp slap to the window/side of vehicle. This typically results in a violent evasive maneuver that's really pretty funny. I think they're reacting that way because they think they've actually hit me.
5: If they stop because I had the nerve to touch their precious vehicle, I stop, pull phone from pocket and -- as rationally as I can muster -- tell them that I knocked on their car in order to avoid them squishing me, and that I'm calling 911 to report their reckless driving behavior. That will always result in an apology and a hasty retreat.

I used to get more agro when encountering real stupidity, but one guy confronted me with a tire iron, so I take a more measured approach and I've been getting better results.

As a long time motorcyclist, I've been known to carry a car lugnut in my pocket. One of those winging off a door will get attention, but I only use it in encounters with the aggressively stupid. God's only mistake...Stupid should hurt.

If you even have time to reach for a horn or anything else, you're better off using that time to prevent the collision or to choose the one that will hurt the least.

+1

We could take a page from the Hobie Cat manual for PWC (personal water craft) repellant and adapt it to bikes. Serously, plenty of serious suggestions, thought a little humor would be good.

http://www.west.net/~lpm/hobie/archives/v1-i2/humor.shtml

Someone skilled with tools and integrated circuits could probably adapt something like this to a Burley or similar trailer

How about we just put together a platoon of us old jugheads to go town-to-town with our own version of Critical Mass...cept it's called Kickin-Some-Cager-Ass :eek:

oorah. I like the way this thread is moving. :D

As for voice sometimes not being enough: those times, it's hard to imagine anything short of swift and blinding violence being enough, anyway. It's on me, the rider, to have an escape route, whether I'm yelling or sucking wind.

I can yell really hard, but I prefer to hit the brakes harder.

Yell Really Really load........

Or it fails to register they need to do anything. A couple months ago, I riding 25+ and some woman suddenly passed and turned right in front of me. I did everything I could to avoid the car but flying into and over the back of it was unavoidable. The woman who almost took me out was distraught by the whole thing. The crash looked much worse than it really was, so witnesses were upset and wanted to call police, medical assistance, sign statements as to what they'd seen, and were really giving this poor woman a hard time. I found myself in the ironic position of doing my best to reassure and defend someone who almost put me in the hospital. She apologized profusely. She'd seen me, but somehow it didn't click that she needed to do anything....

Whoa!! Almost same EXACT thing happend to me 2 weeks ago. I was going 25-30mph and a girl just flips right in front of me launching me over the rear of her car where I ended up about 20' away - ughh.

My witness thought I was being too nice and I ended calming down the driver (17 yo girl) and her mother for 20 minutes or so.

Funny part was I asked her how she couldn't see me considering I have 5 (yes FIVE) blinky lights & wear a blaze orange vest... she looked right at me and said very straight faced "I saw you.......but didn't think you could move that fast"

Crash looked worse than it was...I have some road rash and a wrist contusion - no biggee.

Not much you can do when an oblivious drivers gonna clobber ya :mad:

I yell, and if that doesn't get their attention (because they're usually on car phones), then I smack their car. That usually does it. Nobody wants their Range Rover to get dented by an overzealous cyclist! :D

Koffee

If you are going to go banging on cars, make sure you are prepared to escape an angry driver. I had to smack my fist on the passenger side window of a car about to squeeze me into a line of parked cars. The car I banged on followed me yelling who-knows-what. Luckily, getting through rush-hour traffic in downtown San Francisco on a bike is much faster than in a car. =)

Prepare for a fistfight, u lock in hand. Go and lift some weights too, and get some punching bag at home, a speedball, and a 9 mm.

.... or just foggedabouddit

The Devil Dog bark has been working well for me for years, but lately I've noticed that it hasn't been as effective. Maybe I'm going soft?

I'm not at all opposed to smacking fenders/roofs if people try to crowd me, but it rarely happens now that I'm out of the city.

The real trick is to recognize the mistake the driver is going to make before they make it. This is much harder now that my commute is in the dark. (But you'd think they would see those lights...)

Short description of the thought process of said persons:
-open car door
-turn ignition on
-brain off
-drive

you left the driver standing on the sidewalk. or did you mean it that way?

i tried this last time downtown i almost got cut off ... i slowed down, looked behind me, changed lanes and proceeded to pass going on my merry way. i didn't say a word this time. didn't give 'em the finger. just continued business as usual. interestingly enough. i felt fine. there was no post-"i almost got hit by a car" raging feeling at all. i didn't need to vent, or yell, or shake my head. this time.

i hope i can get away with this every time. i'll let you know how i feel next time someone cuts me off.

In these situations I like to use a gun. The best tactic is to shoot out their rear tires and when they grind to a halt rip the drivers door off and drag them screaming from their safe little metal coffin. Spend at least half an hour beating them with a quick-release chain ring whilst screaming "right of way mf". This will make sure they get the message and will never drive like that again.

Also, if they have kids then give them a bit of the treatment as well to make sure they grow up right. Unless, of course, they want a go with the chain ring, in which case they should be positively encouraged.

Does anyone make a handlebar mount for an RPG launcher?

I always wish I had superman's laser emmiting eys to pop tires, oh man! that would be great!

you left the driver standing on the sidewalk. or did you mean it that way?

"Drive" usually implies that the driver is in the vehicle.

"Drive" usually implies that the driver is in the vehicle.

In body maybe but certainly not in spirit, this is usually left at home watching daytime TV.

a flash bang tossed into the open window as a premptive right hook manuver would guarantee your right of way if you were accelerating fast enough to escape the crash.

Watching out for, and avoiding them is preferred. Slow speed, traffic crawling hooks sometimes get a smack on the quarter panel. Boy, does that get a cager pissed off or what? But then you can yell, "You hit me!" And leave them totally confused.

Wait, that's not very VC> more like Bad Cyclist.

this should do it...
http://www.northsport.dk/typo3temp/6db0f3e1fc.jpg

Middle finger

A few years ago, a Boston newspaper reporter and cyclist did a little experiment to see how he could get the most respect from cars. He tried pinning all kinds of symbols and slogans to his bag -- treating it basically like a bumper sticker with various messages that might make him not only more visible to cars, but might also make the drivers respect him a little more.

It's a funny write up: http://lists.topica.com/lists/massbike/read/message.html?mid=806586862

The gist of it is that "My wife got the car" emblazoned across his back earned him the most respect.

Bells aren't working. whistles are too slow. Airzounds does not have a good reputation for getting rapid response from motorists. My guess is the decibel reading is too close to the unit, and after you get 25+ feet away it's not all that loud.

Is there a better solution? Something loud, easy to mount, not too heavy, and easy to trigger?

There's always the air can, ala marine air horn. I would think a 6v or 12v car/truck/motorcycle horn might be the best. But I don't know how to create such a system. Ideal sound would be like a semi's horn, but I think that might be way too heavy.

Any good ideas?
Most people don't use my method, but I'm very happy with it. I keep a rubber-sheathed sports whistle in my teeth all the time. It's faster than anything, even yelling, and sharper and louder, too. It wakes up motorists quickly.

There are plenty of other options, but this is by far the fastest and easiest. I don't even have to move my hands.

Try it. If you don't like it, you've spent $3.

Regarding angry drivers from smacked cars... One time I took the through-Harlem route home to go to the Gamestop store on 125th (Xbox 360 preorder, yeah!). I don't like that route after work because of the traffic and double parkers but don't mind so much during the day if I'm not working and fancy a ride in Central Park. Anyhow, I was nearly doored while manuevering between traffic jammed cars. I let out a yelp and nearly received a beatdown because the fella inside thought I'd hit his car. WTF? Dude almost knocks me to ground (more correctly his apparently clueless sister opening the passenger door) and then wants to kill me for damage that didn't happen to his car? Crrrrazy.

Anyhow, moral of the story is don't mess with someone's car intentionally unless you have a clear escape route!

Anyhow, moral of the story is don't mess with someone's car intentionally unless you have a clear escape route!
I will knock on a car if they squeeze me. but the results can be unpleasant. I did it one time and the car literally slammed on the brakes and put the car in park in the middle of the lane. dude gets out (awesome gold chain shimmering in the light) and does like a grade school fist-in-palm-"wanna fight?" thing. his girlfriend is screaming in the car and I'm like - "whoa, I think I will bike the other way." which I did. but then I called him a b!tch, which he didn't like. couldn't really leave his car, though and I was running like a scared dog. I also did it to a van once and the response was a loud siren - it was an unmarked cop van and the cop was p!ssed! I told him I was just trying to alert him, but he was talking about a summons, etc. crazy.

I think it's really loud inside a car even if you just give a sharp rap with the knuckle.

Knocking on the car gets a very agitated response from drivers, for sure. Very judicious use of the knuckles, it still gets a driver fired up, so be prepared.

I pack pepper spray duct taped to a seat stay on my commuter bike for the next dipshiz that gets out of their auto to 'educate the cyclist'

I think a driver getting out of a car to threaten a bicyclist constitutes enough of a threat to warrant some pepper spray to the chops without any other provocation...of course, not in every case....

I also did it to a van once and the response was a loud siren - it was an unmarked cop van and the cop was p!ssed! I told him I was just trying to alert him, but he was talking about a summons, etc. crazy.

I'll do it to a cop car, no problem. I would suggest to him that if I was able to knock on his car it suggests one of two things: 1) Assault with a deadly weapon, 2) Failure to pass with due caution. Many states actually codify three feet as the official minimum. Given that the fingertip-to-fingertip span of a person is approximately their height, an arm's length (with the fingers curled, no less) will be less than half of that. That's usually going to be under 3 feet, ergo he's executing an illegal maneuver.

Seattle recently passed a dumbazz 3 to 5 INCHES of clearance law, I'm a little miffed about that! I think it gives all the bus drivers carte blanche to buzz cyclists.

Seattle recently passed a dumbazz 3 to 5 INCHES of clearance law, I'm a little miffed about that! I think it gives all the bus drivers carte blanche to buzz cyclists.

Oh what I would give for 3 to 5 inches. In London you get an inch if your lucky.