Advocacy & Safety - What do naked riders and Critical Mass have in common?

A snippet from a local news story about the all-important bicycling advocacy event called Critical Mass.

Participants in San Francisco include financial district workers, bike messengers, costumed riders and, often, naked riders.

You'll find the story here: http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?S=951537&nav=5D7iBTzw

Now, really, all you Critical Mass fans. What exactly do costumed and naked riders have to do with safe riding? Or is reporting this the "biased media" working against your goals? Could this be an attention-grabbing device? If so, is this the attention you desire?

What is it you really want anyway?

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
Now, really, all you Critical Mass fans. What exactly do costumed and naked riders have to do with safe riding? Or is reporting this the "biased media" working against your goals? Could this be an attention-grabbing device? If so, is this the attention you desire?

What is it you really want anyway?

Unfortunately events such as Critical Mass beckon fringe-clutchers like a siren-song. My sympathy goes to any participants who simply want to make a calm social and/or political statement; it isn't their fault they have to share the experience with chunder-headed exhibitionists and sociopaths. Still, this is the very reason I'll steer wide of these gatherings.

-Rob

RobCat2002, I agree. I've said on this forum that the best thing we bikers, especially bike-commuters, can do to improve our lot is display safe, predictable street manners. Work with the traffic. Realize that for the most innocent of reasons a driver just may not be aware of your presence. Acknowledge that the roads are really built for motorized vehicles, silly bike lanes and such notwithstanding.

Critical Massers, in my opinion, are out for something far different than bikers' rights.

Biker priveleges, perhaps?

Front page news on Yahoo! ...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020928/ap_on_re_us/critical_mass_6

Looks like China! Oh how I dream of a non-Maoist cycling utopia...

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
Critical Massers, in my opinion, are out for something far different than bikers' rights.

I would not take the right of people to express their views lightly.

I always admire the courage of those critical mass participants. People stand up for what they want.

Those naked riders could be saboteurs, whose aim is to discredit the movement among main stream public.

It works on you, does not it?

Originally posted by Alexey
[1] I would not take the right of people to express their views lightly.
[2] I always admire the courage of those critical mass participants. People stand up for what they want.
[3] Those naked riders could be saboteurs, whose aim is to discredit the movement among main stream public.
[4] It work on you, does not it?
On [1], never have. Do you claim I have? Then I suggest you not take lightly my right to express views counter to others.

On [2], I teach my kids to stand up for what they believe in. I find it hard to believe, however, that many/most CMers are serious. If they were I'd see them biking a whole lot more, rather than marching on bikes once a month or so.

On [3], discredit CM? You've got to be kidding. CM is a self-discrediting venture.

On [4], no, actually it didn't. If you read through the posts, you'd see that my argument is that CM is an excuse for many to act unlawfully, which will always draw a crowd. Public indecency is a crime. Why would CM sponsors permit them to continue marching on bikes if the CM movement is so worried about saboteurs, as you suggest?

Maybe they just wanted to have some fun. I think Critical Mass is mainly about cyclists rights, but it's also about having fun while doing so.

Riding naked is great! OK...I was wearing a helmet and shoes. Does that still count?;)

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch

Why would CM sponsors permit them to continue marching on bikes if the CM movement is so worried about saboteurs, as you suggest?

No one sponsors Critical Mass. There are no leaders.

Originally posted by urban_assault

No one sponsors Critical Mass. There are no leaders.
Yeah, whatever.

Just leave us law-abiding, consistent, safe, traffic-friendly bike-commuters out of it when you CMers claim bikers' rights.

Yeah, whatever.

Originally posted by urban_assault
No one sponsors Critical Mass. There are no leaders.

That is perhaps the biggest problem. If it actually had some leaders, maybe it would cause fewer disruptions and not be the farcical event it has become.

Oh, c'mon. CM has leaders. They only try to act as though they're not leaders so as to preserve an air of ... what? ... popularlism?

If the CM organizers were serious about restricting unbridled lawlessness, they could have and would have done so long ago. Rather, they choose to hide behind a facade of popularism so as to avoid responsible for and the consequences of CM lawlessness.

ALl I know is that I tend to avoid any of those mass events where people dress up like clowns and paint their faces and wear silly hats or balloons on their helmets. I am sure it's fun but it tends to attract lots of losers.

Originally posted by wabbit
I am sure it's fun but it tends to attract lots of losers.
:roflmao:

What do naked riders and CM have in common?

While I try to ride nekkid at every opportunity, I have found that it is always more fun to ride nekkid with friends...


...lots of friends...



...especially BOYfriends.

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
...you not take lightly my right to express views counter to others.[B]

This your right is sincerely respected by me.


Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
[B]...the consequences of CM lawlessness.

What about higher laws?

The cities were invented about 3000 years ago. Ancient Greek cities had the distinct streets.

These streets were not designed for mass automotive traffic, which is present for no more than 20 - 30 years.

In many cities people are trying to build high protective fences from the motorways. They try to fend off the toxic exhaust gases and noise by this.

These barriers will not help much against gases. Besides these fences are just plain ugly.

It seems to me is that the Critical Mass is an attempt to reclaim the cities back. To make them liveable again.

When there is a large group of people, one may be sure that there will be eccentric, mentally ill, etc. individuals among them. This is just the way people are.

But looking at the photo in this thread, I see only nice cyclists. A girl in the lower right corner is very handsome, by the way.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Thousands of bicyclists crammed San Francisco's streets late Friday night, blocking rush hour traffic as they celebrated the 10th anniversary of Critical Mass, a movement to make city streets safer for bicyclists.

This event is played out everyday by motorists who block rush hour traffic as they struggle to get home.

Originally posted by Pete Clark
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Thousands of bicyclists crammed San Francisco's streets late Friday night, blocking rush hour traffic as they celebrated the 10th anniversary of Critical Mass, a movement to make city streets safer for bicyclists.

This event is played out everyday by motorists who block rush hour traffic as they struggle to get home.

Pete, we all know that the media will cover the "bad things" cyclists do and turn a blind-eye to what motorists do. Fact is, we have to live with it. I really don't see how "motorists do it" is a defence for critical mass.

My opposition to critical mass does not in any way relate to it's effect on motorists or what motorists do. It arises because CM is an action that does us cyclists more harm than good.

"Participants in San Francisco include financial district workers, bike messengers, costumed riders and, often, naked riders."

I knew there was something I was missing. Where do I sign up?

:D

AD>> No one sponsors Critical Mass. There are no leaders.
AD> Yeah, whatever.

=v= Same back atcha.

AD> They only try to act as though they're not leaders so as to preseve an air of ... what? ... popularlism?

=v= No, it's entirely true that nobody leads CM, just as nobody leads traffic. There are those who've tried to lead it, but they've always failed.

PC> I knew there was something I was missing. Where do I sign up?

=v= You don't sign up, you show up. :^) Check out this website:

http://www.critical-mass.org/

There's a ride in Atlanta and over 300 other places.
<_Jym_>

;)

Originally posted by Jym Dyer
http://www.critical-mass.org/


I am fascinated with this website. It is like Don Quixote's exploits.

There is no critical mass in the city where I live. But I will see what can be done.

Originally posted by Alexey


I am fascinated with this website. It is like Don Quixote's exploits.

There is no critical mass in the city where I live. But I will see what can be done.
But I will see what can be done. Careful, that'd make you a leader.

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
Careful, that'd make you a leader.

Andy, during the dictatorship years people have learned hard way to be organized without having any organization, or leaders for that matter.

Everything is done by small talk and parallel intensive work of grey cells trying to stay on the frequency of what is going on.

It is the only way to get things done somehow, when everything is under total control of the secret police.

I've never ridden naked but know several people that have, it must feel good. Cycling is a broad term. There are those who would contend simply riding your bike to work doesn't make you a cyclist. Rather, you must ride your bike to work, go home, hop on the bike and do a real ride. I think it's allllll good. In fact, it doesn't make any sense for a cyclist to poo poo critical mass either. You guys make me want to get naked, slap on the headphones and boogy down main street.

The cities were invented about 3000 years ago. Ancient Greek cities had the distinct streets.

These streets were not designed for mass automotive traffic, which is present for no more than 20 - 30 years.

In many cities people are trying to build high protective fences from the motorways. They try to fend off the toxic exhaust gases and noise by this.

These barriers will not help much against gases. Besides these fences are just plain ugly.
...
It seems to me is that the Critical Mass is an attempt to reclaim the cities back. To make them liveable again.

Alexey, good to see that someone here understands what CM is all about --- making cities a nice and safe place for PEOPLE and BIKES!

i just don't understand how so many cyclists here can be so critical (and so gullible to the sensationalist media) to so criticize CM --- these are people doing something they believe in and trying to make the world a better place for people and cycling... not some evil group trying to destroy America

as any of us know here, there are problems with motorists, both with safety and pollution, and the problem is continually getting worse...

yes, there may be a few "yahoos" that do bad things, but in the rides i have been almost everyone is VERY NICE AND FRIENDLY and just trying to do something good.

Originally posted by nathank
... these are people doing something they believe in and trying to make the world a better place for people and cycling...
If this were true then if follows that there'd be many, many, many, many more daily commuters than there are. But thousands of CMers somehow translates to tens of bike-commuters. So, why so many CMers and so few bike-commuters? If CMers really, really cared about making the world a better place for cylicts, wouldn't they be cycling more often?

Maybe the so-called non-leaders of CM should qualify attendance to include those that actually cycle more than, oh, once a month. I wonder what the attendance would be then.

And, again, how does pissing off a motorist enhance the cyclists' lot in the world?

Originally posted by Alexey
... Andy, during the dictatorship years people have learned hard way to be organized without having any organization, or leaders for that matter.

Everything is done by small talk and parallel intensive work of grey cells trying to stay on the frequency of what is going on.

It is the only way to get things done somehow, when everything is under total control of the secret police...
I viewed the Soviets as the "Evil Empire", as Reagan did. To me it's inconceivable to live in such an environment. I am very happy that you can express yourself now, as is true for all my Russian friends and workmates here in the Bay Area.

However, the point is irrelevant to CMers in San Francisco, for instance, which is hardly "under total control of the secret police".

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch

I viewed the Soviets as the "Evil Empire", as Reagan did. To me it's inconceivable to live in such an environment. I am very happy that you can express yourself now, as is true for all my Russian friends and workmates here in the Bay Area.

However, the point is irrelevant to CMers in San Francisco, for instance, which is hardly "under total control of the secret police".
I saw Alexy's post as a rare jewel worthy of attention.

RE:

Andy, during the dictatorship years people have learned hard way to be organized without having any organization, or leaders for that matter.

Everything is done by small talk and parallel intensive work of grey cells trying to stay on the frequency of what is going on.

It is the only way to get things done somehow, when everything is under total control of the secret police.

I doubt any American knows what it's like to have secret police watching you, ready to arrest you for your ideas.

Pete: Agreed, but it is still irrelevant.

Originally posted by Pete Clark
I doubt any American knows what it's like to have secret police watching you, ready to arrest you for your ideas.

Arrest meant something else. The survival rate in Siberian labor camps was 70 % per winter. So after 3 - 4 winters chances to get out were very small.

They were building the pipe lines from Siberian oil and natural gas fields to European part of the country.

The labor was very cheap. They worked in frost without special clothing. Providing such a clothing would increase costs. The benzin had to be cheap.

Now all those peculiarities of the former Soviet regime look surrealistic.

It seems a brim between liberty and totalitarianism is very flimsy.

Ancient Rome had been a republic for centuries, but then slipped to the cruelest dictatorship.

Originally posted by nathank
... these are people doing something they believe in and trying to make the world a better place for people and cycling...
>>>>
Originally posted by Any Dreisch
If this were true then if follows that there'd be many, many, many, many more daily commuters than there are. But thousands of CMers somehow translates to tens of bike-commuters. So, why so many CMers and so few bike-commuters? If CMers really, really cared about making the world a better place for cylicts, wouldn't they be cycling more often?

Maybe the so-called non-leaders of CM should qualify attendance to include those that actually cycle more than, oh, once a month. I wonder what the attendance would be then.

Andy, what gives you the impressive that CM riders are NOT bike commuters or frequent cyclists?

from my experience ALMOST ALL are commuters and about half do not even own cars, so i do not understand your comment at all. or do you have some evidence that CMers tend to drive a lot (i really think not)? in general, "recreational cyclists" (i'm not saying there's anything wrong with recreational cyclists), but meaning those who drive for transportation and then put the bike on the roof rack and drive to do a ride are NOT CMers. CMers are generally people who use their bikes daily either because they don't have a car or don't believe in using a car in the city and as they ride thier bikes personally see the damage caused to cities by so many cars and the dominance of the auto and want to do something to improve their communites and make cycling safer and more attractive.

as far as the ratios, CM attendence is always WAY lower than the associated number of bike commuters in an area. Portland OR for example usually had 50-400 CMers when i rode in 98-00 and it has been documented that Portland has well over 2000 DAILY bike commuters. Also CM Austin was about 50 riders when i was there in '99 with good not-too-hot weather and all looked to be daily cyclists.

i see the relationship the other way: only some bike commuters ride in CM, but virtually all CMers are bike commuters.

I did not cycle in San Francisco area (only in the Eastern US). But I am sure there are nice trails up there too, share the road signs, etc.

One is incredibly lucky to live in a place where there are people who are ready to stand up for their rights. Enjoy it.

I guess one has to be grateful to those modest CM heroes, who got their wrist bones broken by handcuffs, beaten by police bludgeons, ribs broken by an aggressive motorist, rammed by a car, etc.

Believe it or not, I read in articles that such things happened to CM riders in the good old US.

It is not the case everywhere. I live in the city where there is one or two trails worth mentioning. Cars with a special pass can drive on such trails. The pass can be bought for eq. of 20 bucks from traffic police.

And they do drive on these trails, because the roads are jammed and a trail offers a nice shortcut.

I would not mind some CM riders to come here, even naked. What the heck! So what that naked?

I, personally, always think gratefully when I cycle on a nice trail about those mostly unknown people, who made this a reality. Including modest Critical Mass heroes.

One has to have a lot of courage to challenge the omni-powerful invincible Car Culture.

Still waiting for someone to explain just how irritating motorists leads to better conditions for cyclists.

I assume Critical Mass riders pay their taxes.

I guess CM is their way to ask that part of this money is spent also on cyclists' needs.

I pay 40% income tax. I also pay other taxes like VAT, etc.

Nothing, nada, zilch from this handsome money is spent on what I need: decent bike trails, bike parking lots, improved camping sites, etc.

A cyclist can not build a trail or lane by himself. The official body can and is to do this. How else can one attract an attention of this official body to cyclists' needs and environmental problems?

These CM people are on the right way. One gets only what one is ready to fight for.

I repeat my opinion, - you are lucky to have the CM in your area. Support and embrace it, while it is still alive.

It is much worse when there is no CM. Because an organized group (even so loosely organized as CM) is the force to not be ignored.

Speaking of motorists and safety. The most careful motorists, I ever saw, were in Austria. There is a law there that if a car hits a cyclist, the driver is to blame no matter what.

But there is another side of the medal, if a cyclist hits a ped, the cyclists is to blame.

To introduce such fair laws again requires CM.

Originally posted by Alexey
... I repeat my opinion, - you are lucky to have the CM in your area. Support and embrace it, while it is still alive. ...
Not me, thanks. I do just fine with the way things are. There's little I'd ask a governing body to provide beyond what is already available to me as a bike-commuter. I accept the conditions as they are and would rather expend resources on other things.

So, CM provides no value whatsoever, in my view.

By antagonzing motorists, however, CMers detract from my circumstances. I never know when a motorist will treat me with contempt, lumping me in with the same idiot CMers he or she may have seen just the other week in SF. She may still be pissed off at being flipped at, or having someone bump her car as the CMers wantonly paraded down the streets. Maybe she had to pick up her son or daughter at day care and was made late by the stud-tongued lunatics running red lights.

Doesn't matter ... now she's just pissed off at me.

CMers ... stop masquerading as a force for bikers' rights and admit it: you're only out for the lawlessness of it.

Still waiting for someone to explain just how irritating motorists leads to better conditions for cyclists.
99.99% of the time a cyclist is hit (or nearly so) because he/she isn't seen. Critical mass is a statement to the community that we exist and have some influence. There are always those that act up and yes, this does undermine the purpose to some extent. But, overall, it is a wonderful event.

Not me, thanks. I do just fine with the way things are. There's little I'd ask a governing body to provide beyond what is already available to me as a bike-commuter. I accept the conditions as they are and would rather expend resources on other things.
So, CM provides no value whatsoever, in my view.
By antagonzing motorists, however, CMers detract from my circumstances. I never know when a motorist will treat me with contempt, lumping me in with the same idiot CMers he or she may have seen just the other week in SF. She may still be pissed off at being flipped at, or having someone bump her car as the CMers wantonly paraded down the streets. Maybe she had to pick up her son or daughter at day care and was made late by the stud-tongued lunatics running red lights.
Doesn't matter ... now she's just pissed off at me.
CMers ... stop masquerading as a force for bikers' rights and admit it: you're only out for the lawlessness of it.

Did you pause to consider that some of the nice people you rub elbows with everyday in this forum might be part of the group you attacked? You start out with a question (in the advocacy forum) and end stating that you don't wish anything to change. That's called trolling (sorry A.Troll).

Originally posted by Rotifer

99.99% of the time a cyclist is hit (or nearly so) because he/she isn't seen.
Yeah, sure. People see bikers better after CM all right. They see red.

To be clear: you're suggesting that CM, by raising the visibility of bikers, has an effect on biker's safety? Again, why would this be so? Are you suggesting that CM has had a demonstrated effect on tangible things that lead to bikers' safety? Can you point to reduced accident/death rates in cities hosting CMs and arising from CM efforts over the past, oh, decade?

I'd be interested in seeing the data.

Originally posted by Rotifer
...Did you pause to consider that some of the nice people you rub elbows with everyday in this forum might be part of the group you attacked? You start out with a question (in the advocacy forum) and end stating that you don't wish anything to change. That's called trolling (sorry A.Troll).
Yes, I did consider it. I express my view. You (and they) express yours. That is, after all, the purpose of such a forum.

I advocate an end to CM because I believe it affects my safety, as I've stated. Can I not post that here, in BF, under "Advocacy & Safety"?

Yes, I did consider it. I express my view. You (and they) express yours. That is, after all, the purpose of such a forum.
I attempted to explain the value of these rides. I pointedly refrained from insulting you or anyone else. I guess your idea as to the purpose of this forum is different than mine. In fact, i view it much the same as I view Critical Mass - an opportunity for us to cohere as cyclists.

Cheers :beer:

Rotifer, no problem. :beer: back at you.

Now ... any data on improvements to safety brought about by CM or initiatves arising directly from CMs? ;)

I looked and couldn't find any. I sure may have missed it.

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
To be clear: you're suggesting that CM, by raising the visibility of bikers, has an effect on biker's safety? Again, why would this be so? Are you suggesting that CM has had a demonstrated effect on tangible things that lead to bikers' safety?...

There are such evil individuals among motorists that no matter how well you behave you will never please them enough to be safe.

These mischievous individuals are most dangerous and they reckon only with force.

As R.Reagan said: "I never saw that anyone insults Jack Dempsey". (Jack Dempsey is the famous boxer)

An assembly of cyclists is the force. When there are several thousand of cyclists riding together regularly inside the city, it is already the political force.

It is difficult to organize cyclists, it is like shepherding cats, because cyclists are individualistic people.

We work now on trying to organize something resembling CM, to protect our trails from motorists. Nothing seems to work.

You have however the ready and running CM in your area, which is an asset in my view.

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
Maybe she had to pick up her son or daughter at day care...

She could walk for a change.

I mean call day care from mobile and walk.

Originally posted by Alexey

There is no critical mass in the city where I live. But I will see what can be done.

One of my most recent enjoyable Critical Mass experiences was organizing and presenting a couple of winter cycling workshops. It was a lot of work, but it was a labor of love. If you start to do Critical Mass activities in your area, expect to do some labors of love.

Some critics of Critical Mass seem to think that the only valid thing that a bicycle advocate can do with their time is to write letters to their legislator. Writing letters to one's legislator is a valid thing, but there's only so many letters you can write. Critical Mass provides a wonderful avenue for volunteer work and advocacy work because many Critical Massers are extremely passionate about cycling.

ViciousCycle, I am reading a lot of materials about Critical Mass. It is curious that this year there was the CM in Moscow. They even have the site (http://crit-mass.by.ru) already.

Only 25 cyclists participated in the 1st Moscow CM. There were more originally, but they split in 2 parts in the beginning (it is so like Russians). Moscow is the city of about 10 millions.

These 25 Critical Massers did not meet any opposition. On the contrary, once they cycled on a bridge near Kremlin, which was cordoned by some troops. The military gave them the way quickly and enclosed the ranks again.

Perhaps the soldiers thought that it is some cycling race, which they were not informed in time. :)

Do you gave a site of your CM in Chicago?

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
Oh, c'mon. CM has leaders. They only try to act as though they're not leaders

On an ongoing basis, I see Massers use their own initiative to organize conferences, workshops, joint efforts with local government officials, social events, lobbying campaigns, and special events. There are no leaders to tell us that we can or can't do this organization; it just happens. When I first got involved with Critical Mass, I was under the mistaken impression that there were leaders, and I tried to figure out who I had to contact about creating my own events. I eventually realized that there were no leaders, and that if I wanted to do events, I had to just roll up my sleeves and start doing the work.


Originally posted by urban_assault
I think Critical Mass is mainly about cyclists rights, but it's also about having fun while doing so.

While the conferences, lobbying campaigns, etc. that Massers put on have serious points, the monthly "Critical Mass ride" is pure street theater. When motorists smile, clap, laugh, and cheer at the bicycle parade of costumed riders, silly bikes, musicians, street performers, and friendly cyclists etc., they are reminded of the simple notion: "Bikes Are Fun."

I have never been on such a ride. The closest thing would be the HOuston Moonlight Ramble, but at 2am not that many notice, besides it is a fund raiser.

As for the riders that show up wearing costumes, or nothing at all...

In all the orginized rides I have ever done, or witnessed, they have always been there. It is one of those little respected put to a subculture things. Kind of like the Kustom Kar guys in the world of cars. I am not putting them down for their choices. I just expect them on a ride, just like the first timers that can't keep their line. I actually would feel in the twilight zone or something if I went on a ride and did not see someone like that.

Keep riding

The cities were invented about 3000 years ago. Ancient Greek cities had the distinct streets.

These streets were not designed for mass automotive traffic, which is present for no more than 20 - 30 years.

Since bicycles have been around for less than 10% of those 3000 years, we should then assume that those roads weren't build for bicycles either.

And now please show me a single road here in the US that 3k years old. Pointing out a street that existed 3000 years ago is nice, the Romans had them as well, as well as most other remotely civilized nations before that.


i just don't understand how so many cyclists here can be so critical (and so gullible to the sensationalist media) to so criticize CM --- these are people doing something they believe in and trying to make the world a better place for people and cycling... not some evil group trying to destroy America

I don't recall anybody saying that CM is going to destroy America. However an activist group that resorts to lawlessness usually get's no respect, especially when the group is very hypocritical about what they are fighting for.


These CM people are on the right way. One gets only what one is ready to fight for.

I repeat my opinion, - you are lucky to have the CM in your area. Support and embrace it, while it is still alive.

It is much worse when there is no CM. Because an organized group (even so loosely organized as CM) is the force to not be ignored.

They are? So getting a whole lot of bad press, and pissing off motorists (many of whom are cyclists as well) they are doing good? These CM'ers who ***** and moan about traffic and such, yet created bigger traffic jams on the little rides they do is doing everybody good?


Speaking of motorists and safety. The most careful motorists, I ever saw, were in Austria. There is a law there that if a car hits a cyclist, the driver is to blame no matter what.

But there is another side of the medal, if a cyclist hits a ped, the cyclists is to blame.

To introduce such fair laws again requires CM.

Fair laws? How is that fair? What if the cyclist is at fault? Believe it or not, I've seen plenty of dim-witted idiotic cyclists riding around. That would be just great that the motorist is to blame even if the cyclist decided to fly through a red light into oncoming traffic. Yep, sounds fair to me.


There are such evil individuals among motorists that no matter how well you behave you will never please them enough to be safe.

Ditto for cyclists.

Andrew