Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - rambling - built a fixed gear disappointed thread...

So, I just need to vent and feel a bit better here.

I bought a frame on ebay, an old austro-daimler inter 10 with vertical drops. Then I got the IRO velocity aerohead wheel set and a build kit, and then I went down to my LBC for a stem, seat post, seat, etc. I got it all together without too much trouble, getting the chain right was a biatch, but it worked out after awhile. Sore thumbs, but it's fine. I had a hell of a time trying to get the bolts off of the rim so that I could align the cog correctly, but I'm not sure that I've gotten it yet.
How much noise is the chain meant to make? It's clicking and making a grinding sound when I spin it, it's not as noticable when I'm riding but it's still there. No matter how I seem to align it, it still seems to make some noise.. so I take it they don't run silent?
I started trying to do skip stops etc, but I don't exactly trust the bike yet... I keep expecting something to fall off... :p it's kind of a leap of faith to throw yourself forward to unweight the back.
I got 170 cranks, which might have been a mistake... pedal strikes might be a little too close for comfort...
One thing that really sucks is that I got a flat after riding it around the block a few times. The Iro rims didn't come with those rubber things that usually go on the inside between the tube and the spoke holes.. so I figured that maybe it just didn't need them. Apparently the edge was a bit to sharp for the tub so now I have a flat... which sucks...

My whole thing with building it myself was that I would hopefully end up spending less than what it would cost to buy a Mark V... I figured that I would end up with better parts too, because I believe a lot of the things on the IRO are just generic, so I figured I would end up with a better bike. ... so I've spent 585.71 now and have a bike with a flat and chain-alignment problems.

I'm just a little bummed... someone cheer me up. I do like the bike, it's not as sexy as a Mark V but it's not a bad bike. I do like the way it feels, so I'm not disappointed about that either... I'm definitely hooked on the fixed gear aspect.

I was a little suprised that I couldn't do track-stands (note I've been on the bike for all of half an hour) but I kind of expected to be able to do those pretty naturally. I've been unicycling for the last 3 years, and I can idle (which is the same thing) for hours on end.. but it's different on the bike... there's much more of a delay and it's a lot different than I expected.

Meh... this is a rant rave post. :( :)

well first you'll have to tape the rims- Rim tape protects your tube from the spokes...

yeeeah.. well now I feel stupid. I figured it needed something but I thought that since it didn't come with it maybe it didn't need it..

Oh well.. I'll make sure to do that.

yeah, i'm all behind liners for the rims and the tires both.

Old ten speed - 25 dollars
New tires - 24 dollars
New inner tubes - 5 dollars
new double wall rear wheel - 37 dollars
bar tape -------------------11 dollars
new chain ------------------10 dollars
cogs (t16 and t13) ----------20 dollars
seat and seatpost -----------30 dollars
Getting to build a rideable fixed gear little by little with a fraction of my gas money = priceless.

I guess the main thing is that I feel like I've built a bike which is less reliable and more expensive than a Mark V would have been.

what do you mean by:

I had a hell of a time trying to get the bolts off of the rim so that I could align the cog correctly, but I'm not sure that I've gotten it yet.

are you trying to respace your rear hub to get proper chainline?
if so, don't. you'll have to redish your wheel as well if you do this. and it'll throw off the flip side of your flip/flop hub too.
sounds like you might need a different BB. measure your chainline front and rear.

and yeah, rim tape is your friend.

There's no problem with moving washers over to one side is there? even if the wheel is a little off center at least the chain line is straight.

For that kind of money you've spent, I would have gone with a Pista.

I guess the main thing is that I feel like I've built a bike which is less reliable and more expensive than a Mark V would have been.

I guess the best way to look at it is not in economic terms... but education terms. You've learned a lot from building up your own bike, and will continue to learn much. As you learn more about bike mechanics, you'll be able to build a more 'reliable' feeling machine, something you wouldn't have gotten from buying a pre-built bike.

That said, after three years of cobbling together my own fixed gear conversions, I'm just about to order a Mark V frame from IRO and assemble it myself. Similar outcome, but the joy is in the path you take to get there.

Could someone please answer my question about the chain crunching/grinding/clicking sounds? I'm just wondering how much there should be...


And yes, I guess I have learned a lot in the process of building/buying this bike. But I also only have about 50 bucks to my name now... oy... I think I'd be a bit happier if I could just ride the stupid thing. :)

yeah, building up a bike is really more for the experience than the price. Make sure when you tape the rims to use a clothe tape like velox, not rubber. Rubber won't hold against the tube well with double wall rims. I would also suggest not moving spacers from one side of the hub to the other, like baxtefer said. I'd put the spacers back like they were, and see if you can take it to a bike shop and get a different bottom bracket, because if you move spacers it will throw off the chainline twice as bad if you ever flip the hub.

put the spacers back where they were, measure your chainline front and back, do some math and figure out what size BB you need.

chain crunching/grinding/popping noise can be many things
- shiatty chain
- shiatty chainline
- worn chain on new cog (or vice versa, but this probably isn't the case)
- no lube
and my #1 favorite
- too much chain tension. sounds like it might be binding. aim for 1/4 to 1/2" play in the chain and the midpoint btwn the chainring and cog.

dude, don't worry about it. one thing that you have over any fully made iro or bianchi is that its your bike. enjoy it as much as you can. you're gonna have your fair share of headaches as you ride it, but its a bike, and its yours.

Go get some rim tape, a patch kit and a pump, and don't be discouraged about the track stands. give yourself a few more days and you'll start getting them down.

enjoy and go ride, your bike will thank you for it.

I measured the spacing and the backwheel was 110... I'm pretty sure the BB is the same, but the crank sticks out further than the back cog. What would a different sized BB have to do with getting the chain line straighter? wouldn't it be the crank that would need to somehow be closer?

that is a lot to spend for a conversion but look at it this way, you'll be able to switch the parts over to any other frame you might end up with if you take care of them.

I measured the spacing and the backwheel was 110... I'm pretty sure the BB is the same, but the crank sticks out further than the back cog. What would a different sized BB have to do with getting the chain line straighter? wouldn't it be the crank that would need to somehow be closer?

que? measure your chainline this way... you ahould end up with a number around 42mm
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html

if your chaining is further out than your cog, then either saw the chainring to the inner position of your spider (if you can and haven't already) or get a new, shower BB (if your chainring will still clear the chainstay)

A shorter bottom bracket will bring your crank closer to the frame, and that's what you need to do to get your chainline straight. Don't mess with the hub spacers.

The problem with your build has nothing to do with how much you spent on it, and everything to do with how much you didn't know about building it.
the mistakes you made are all a prat of the learning process. You learned some things such as the necessity for rim tape the hard way. You could go through life without ever needing to know about proper chainline, and rim strips if you buy all your bikes complete. You chose the harder path, but it has the potential to be the more rewarding path as well, because once you've learned what you need to know to build a reliable bike, you'll have more than just a reliable bike. You'll have the skills and knowledge to make any bike a reliable bike, and the satisfaction that comes from doing something for yourself.

I highly recommend this page http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion.html to give a good overview on what you need to know about building a conversion. Then for things you don't understand, do some more research, and/or ask questions here.

Could someone please answer my question about the chain crunching/grinding/clicking sounds? I'm just wondering how much there should be...

It sounds like you bought a chain and put it on yourself. If so, after you put it on, did you lube it? If not, you still might need to lube it; one time I took a bike to an unknown LBS to put a chain on and they didn't lube it for me. That crunching sound can be caused by poor lubrication.



I got it all together without too much trouble, getting the chain right was a biatch, but it worked out after awhile. Sore thumbs, but it's fine. I had a hell of a time trying to get the bolts off of the rim so that I could align the cog correctly, but I'm not sure that I've gotten it yet.


What type of cranks are you using? Are they track-specific, or are they road cranks (for example, the ones that were originally on the bike)? If the latter, you can also adjust your chainline by changing the position of your chainwheel on the crank. In other words, if your cranks were originally for two or three chainrings, you can change the position of the single-speed ring (to either be the inner or outer ring). You can also get spacers for your chainwheel to adjust the chain line in small increments.



that is a lot to spend for a conversion but look at it this way, you'll be able to switch the parts over to any other frame you might end up with if you take care of them.

I'd like to second that. If you're caught up on the money issue, think of it this way: the only thing that differentiates your bike from an IRO is a $250 frameset. You can always upgrade your frame and swap components. With the market the way it is these days, you could probably sell your austro-daimler for almost the same price that you originally paid.

alright, I determined that the crank is about 5.5mm further out than it ought to be.
I can't put the spindle on the opposite side like you suggested because it already is.

It sounds like you bought a chain and put it on yourself. If so, after you put it on, did you lube it? If not, you still might need to lube it; one time I took a bike to an unknown LBS to put a chain on and they didn't lube it for me. That crunching sound can be caused by poor lubrication.

There was so much lube on the chain already when I took it out of its box that I didn't even think of adding more.. but I'm pretty sure that will fix the problem.


The crank is track specific (or at least fixie specific). It's about 6mm further out from the frame then it ought to be, so I'm going to have to something about that...

6mm? geez. that's a thrown chain waiting to happen. also explains your noise issue/
what size is your BB spindle right now?

provided it's symmetrical, you're going to need a 12mm narrower one.

you bought the build kit from IRO? something sounds wrong then. it should come w/ a 110mm BB.

wait a second.
you said your rear spacing is 110mm?

did you remove spacers from your hub? all from 1 side?

The BB is 110 and the rear-spacing is 120. I tried to move some of the spacers over to the left side to get the chain line straight, but I took your advice and switched it back since then. I didn't remove any of the spacers, I just took from one side to put on the other.

And yes, I bought the IRO V. 1 build kit.

so the 5.5 mm chainline difference is with the wheel spacers in their original configuration?
something sounds fishy.

is your frame aligned properly?

yeah, that's right. Everything's back to the original configuration.

The left drop is bent slightly inward, but I believe it's only the drop itself that's bent... Between the drops measures exactly 120 and I find it hard to believe that the entire back of the bike is bent to the left... I would think I would be able to see that. I'll have to check.

well since your wheel is bolted to the dropouts, and he dropout is bent, it doesn't really matter if the rest of the frame is bent.

Your bike probably had 126mm spacing, and if the left drop is bent in 6mm, leaving the drive side drop normal, that would account for the cog being about 6mm out.

I'm not sure if that makes sense.. I was trying to figure it out last night.
The left drop of the bike (when you're on it) is bent inward... if it were the right side that would make more sense, but it's the left that's bent so I'm not sure where all the space it coming from.

I'm going to drop by my LBC later today to see if we can figure it out.

If the entire frame is slightly bent, is there any problem with me simply bending it back? or does it need to be rewelded?

You're right I was thinking backwards. that would tend to put your chainline 6mm outward of the crank, but you are saying the crank is too far out.

straightening the frame is not a simple job, but it shouldn't require welding, but don't get too worried about it. Chances are this is a simple matter of getting the correct length of bottom bracket for the crank you have. you never did say what crank it is. That makes a difference. Sheldon Brown to the rescue once again. he has a database of cranks & bb lengths. Go there find your crank. It will tell you the bb, and chainline it weas designed for. then subtract to get the bb length you need for 42mm chainline. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html From looking at this page I can see most doubles are designed for 43.5mm chainline, and most triples 47-50mm and doubles are measured halfway between the rings if that is the case you should be able to get pretty close to 42 using the stock bb, and the inner ring. If you want to use te outer ring you need a slightly shorter BB than stock. In your case though I don't know if you have the stock BB length or not. I beleive you said you got a 110, so a 103 should get you there. cranks designed for 103 bottom brackets are unusual, but they are out there.

I'm not sure that I quite follow what you're saying... but that's because I know nothing about this.
The BB was 110, I don't know anything else about it except that it was from IRO I believe it's standard and it has square tapers. I didn't have the right tool to put it in myself so I had my LBS do it for me, so I have no way of pulling it out to check what it is.

this is what the IRO sites says:
Crank......................IRO 130bcd with alloy 46 tooth ring
Bottom Bracket.....IRO 68X110


When I get home I'm going to measure more closely, last night I did it pretty quickly, so it's around 5.5mm off.

OH. If you got the IRO crank AND bottom bracket they should be a correct match. sorry I misunderstood.

If I understand you correctly, you measured your chainline like this and got a measurement of about 47.5mm. If that's true something is not right probably with bottom bracket or crank instalation. If it measures closer to 42mm, but the chainline is not straight I would suspect a bent frame.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/measure-chainline-angled.jpg

this is getting to be a little frustrating. Last night I measured everything and came up with 5.5... earlier today I measured again and multiple other times until I was sure about the numbers... My eyes are telling me the crank is further forward than the cog, when I site along the crank to the cog it looks lined up, and my measurements show that it's about 1mm off from what it ought to be. If the frame is bent I can't tell, so I've decided to trust the numbers and say it's close enough. I think looking at the chainline from above is screwing with my eyes anyhow...
I measured: 43.5 BB, 42.5 Hub to cog, or whatever it's called.

However, there is still the clicking noise I mentioned. It's not a regular clicking, it's more like a static sound with occasional louder clicks. I'm just wondering how much of that is normal... I sprayed some WD40 on it, but it didn't seem to do much. Is there something special I'm meant to be putting on the chain?

Thanks for the help btw.

so you're off by 1 mm on your chainline? I'd be perfectly happy with that.

as for your noise....
- chain tension too high? sounds like it could be binding.
- stiff links in chain?
- something completely different (ie. chainring bolts, seatpost, pedals, BB, stem/bars - check these for tightness)

oh yeah, and WD40 isn't lube.

The noise itself is definitely coming from the cog. I did put the chain together myself, but that would only account for two links on the entire thing that might be a little stiff.

I don't know if I was clear with the way I said it, but there is a constant static clicking sound and then some louder ones... though it's louder than I would expect it to be, which is why I'm concerned. There's no sound at all when I'm just peddling it slowly, but it becomes louder the faster I peddle.

I think lube will help some though.

Make sure your wheel is aligned properly, and your chain tension is good. Your first one, with vertical dropouts? these 2 items can certainly be an issue. And buy a bottle of good chain lube. Don't spray WD-40 on all your problems! There will always be some noise: there are parts of the chain continously colliding with parts of the chainring/cog. The most obvious manifestation of this is noise. The cog tends to be louder since the chain makes a tighter turn here than it does on the chainring.

Alright, well thanks everyone. I went a bought the rim tape, the patch kit, and the lube.. and now my bike is purring. I just took it on an exhilarating night ride.

New problem though, the cog and lockring keep slipping. I've heard JB weld mentioned, so I might have to give that a try as soon as I can get some. Any other suggestions?


Oh, and I would like to apologize to my bike for ever doubting it. After browsing fgg I've decided that though my bike may not be as sexy as many, it's not as shoddy as some of them either. :) I'll post pics if I can.

New problem though, the cog and lockring keep slipping. I've heard JB weld mentioned, so I might have to give that a try as soon as I can get some. Any other suggestions?


cog slipping? you're using a track hub, right? hopefully you haven't stripped it yet.
hold off on the jbweld for now.

before you start riding again you'd better make sure that you've tightened that cog/lockring down properly.
take cog/lockring off.
inspect threads for strippedness.
if not stripped, then clean and grease threads.
install cog - TIGHTEN WITH A CHAINWHIP
install lockring - TIGHTEN WITH A LOCKRING TOOL
ride
check lockring tightness again.

what cog/lockring combo are you using? some cogs/lockrings are too thin to provide adequate tightness against each other.

if the cog was not torqued down hard enough, it would have been impossible to tighten the lockring properly, and it will loosen up after you ride it around a bit. one good way to get the cog tight if you don't have a chainwhip handy is to ride it up a steep hill, and not apply back pressure on the way down, then tighten the lockring down TIGHT.

Seeing as I don't have a chainwhip or lockring tool I could have some problems... I bought the cog and lock ring together from IRO and it's also an IRO hub so I would assume it would all work together.

I just pulled off the back wheel, and the lockring came off without any trouble... but try as I might to get the cog off it seems to be stuck. I swear I was feeling slipage though. After skipstopping a few times when I started to accelerate again there was some pretty noticable slipage. Maybe the chain has tightened it itself? I'll just have to make sure the lock ring is on tight now.

no tools = stripped hub waiting to happen.

take it into a shop that knows something about fixed gears and have them tighten it for you. If it just shifts a bit when you transition frop forward pressure to back pressure, and you haven't done that too much or too hard it should be fine. use the front brake a lot, and no back pressure until you can get it tightened, and get it tightened ASAP.

I just pulled off the back wheel, and the lockring came off without any trouble... but try as I might to get the cog off it seems to be stuck. I swear I was feeling slipage though. After skipstopping a few times when I started to accelerate again there was some pretty noticable slipage. Maybe the chain has tightened it itself? I'll just have to make sure the lock ring is on tight now.

you can apply way for force with your legs than you can with your fingers. if you felt it slipping, it probably was backing off up to your loose lockring, then tightening itself back up again.
if you spin the lockring on now, the cog probably isn't seated properly and it'll still be loose when you go ride.

get the proper tools.

Buy a chainwhip or make one, and tighten that cog as instructed. Then do the lockring. Don't ride until you do those things, otherwise you may strip it -- if you haven't already.

Never assume that a product comes in bolt-on-and-go condition. People make mistakes, bolts come loose, bad things happen. All innertube-based wheels should have rim tape; all threaded parts should at least be checked out.

Alright, well I don't have enough spare chian to make a chainwhip so I'm going to have to take this to my LBS tomorrow and have them do it.

The learning curve is a bit steep here... :)

Could someone please answer my question about the chain crunching/grinding/clicking sounds? I'm just wondering how much there should be....

Properly aligned there should be silence.

Also, chains are packaged in grease to prevent corrosion. It's not the same thing as chain lube. So when you get a new chain, the proper procedure is to remove it from its packaging and degrease it. Then install it and lubricate it with the lube of your choice.

Tie a rope from one of the pedals holes (remove pedal first)to the top of the seat tube (where the seet post meets the seat tube. Rotate the wheel up firmly and gradually till cog comes loose. Only recommended for sturdy steel frames.

It works for me every time.

No chainwhip? Rotafix.

http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm

Works like a charm, and unless you have a chainwhip with a 2 foot handle, it works even better. Don't believe the BS this link gives you about not needing a lockring with it. You still do. It's just a good method for getting your cog on real snuggly.

Lockring tools are necessary, however. The only fudge you can do for that is the ol' hammer+screwdriver. Not recommended.

The bad chainline is probably causing some of the noise, but you said you've only been riding it a few hours right? Even with a near perfect chainline, lube, chain tension, etc... it could still make noise for the first few days of riding. I couldn't figure out why mine was so noisy but it went silent after a few hours.