Studded tires for commuting?

[rykoala]

Hey, is it even worth putting knobby or studded tires on a trike (tadpole config)? Maybe just on the back, for traction, eh?

Heck yes! I have visions of building a pedal-powered quad or trike with studded tires all-round for next winter, when it gets *really* nasty. Probably a trike, a quad would be overkill. I like overkill, though...

[jeff-o]

Heck yes! I have visions of building a pedal-powered quad or trike with studded tires all-round for next winter, when it gets *really* nasty. Probably a trike, a quad would be overkill. I like overkill, though...

Indeed, overkill never hurt anyone... ;)

[2manybikes]

perhaps rut was a bad choice of words but the tyre was deflected and then SLID out. From my perspective I did feel a more than a little (and not very gently) let down. But don't worry I am not blaming my Nokians. Everything has its limitations. I will ride home on them tonight just with a little more care on bumpy melting ice.

After reading this again, today I realized my post did not come out the way I meant it.

I don't mean that I don't believe that you slid. What I really meant was that if someone is going to buy some new Nokians, don't think that you can just ride over all the ruts. There are some ruts that will toss you right down and it's not a tire problem. A different type or better tire will not allow you to ride over some ruts no matter what the tire is like. If the rut is frozen hard, and deep enough it's just as bad as getting your tire in a railroad track on the road.........THUD. One needs to consider this if riding in the snow and ice. Some ruts cannot be seen under the snow and could toss you in front of a car.

[2manybikes]

Indeed, overkill never hurt anyone... ;)

If there is any snow with some depth, pushing two extra paths in the snow won't kill you, but it may feel like it. A two wheel bike is much better in snow. Great fun with the trike on the ice though.

[CBBaron]

Heck yes! I have visions of building a pedal-powered quad or trike with studded tires all-round for next winter, when it gets *really* nasty. Probably a trike, a quad would be overkill. I like overkill, though...
Based on the experience of my coworker who rides a recumbent trike year round, studded tires are not worth much on a trike for road riding. The studs do not add enough traction to push through deep snow or car snot and you are not going to fall on black ice studs or no studs.
The experience may be different if you deal with much ice on your path but here in Cleveland the use of salt means that the ice is never more than occasional patches but snow cover is the real problem.
Craig

[meb]

it seems like factory studded tires are hard to notice a difference. i put a nokian on my front wheel. one year i made homemade studded tires with sheet metal screws in a 2.5" tire, coated the heads with permatex part# 6B and lined the tire with an old innertube cut to a width that would protect the inner tube from puncturing. the secret here is to pump the tire up to very high pressure. these studs were so agressive that it stuck to a carpeted hallway as i pushed my bike outside. it kinda wanted to go sideways on dry pavement. so i put it to the ultimate test and went to an outside ice skating rink and rode with so much traction as i poked little holes into the ice, i was easily able to ride wheelies on clear, smooth ice (I woudn't attempt that with factory tires) Factory studded tires are lighter but if you wanna ride on frozen lakes or river beds i'ld suggest making homemade studded tires. it takes a lotta work, a drill, and a 4x4 piece of wood, stood up on it's end to drill holes through your tire before you screw the sheet metal srews into the tire. but you'll have tires that will out perform any factory studded tires. i also suggest using them on a second set of rims/wheels, because they're so extreme that you aren't gonna wanna use them all the time. it does take more energy to push studded tires.

I noticed a studded tire advertised as having an inner tire. Can inserting a smaller tire inside provide protection from the tube for homemade studded tires? Would such a double tiring perform well on the rim?

[2manybikes]

I noticed a studded tire advertised as having an inner tire. Can inserting a smaller tire inside provide protection from the tube for homemade studded tires? Would such a double tiring perform well on the rim?

Yes, if the tires and rim are the right size. All you need to do is have two tires the same and cut the bead off the tire to go inside. It's the old school way to keep from getting flats. It works.
It will be slower.

[ChroMo2]

joejack951 makes a very good point. I bet studded tires would be fun trying to ride on wet wood. The Nokian posted above looks good enough for snowy conditions. Sometimes only my front tire is studded, then your cold weather bicycling skills pre-dominate. And my favorite maneuver, is to slow down. The way I figure it, is, at least from a dead stop, you only have to fall about 5' or 6'. Then after that it's just a matter of what you land on and at what velocity.

[mjens]

Managing Tire Pressure in Cold:

How do people do it? I don't want to over-inflate my new Nokians (Mount+Ground) .. they loose pressure in the cold (~0F right now), but I'm a big guy (220 lbs) and need all the pressure I can get so I'm not riding on rims, especially the back tire.

[2manybikes]

Managing Tire Pressure in Cold:

How do people do it? I don't want to over-inflate my new Nokians (Mount+Ground) .. they loose pressure in the cold (~0F right now), but I'm a big guy (220 lbs) and need all the pressure I can get so I'm not riding on rims, especially the back tire.

Don't worry, it does not make a huge difference. If your tires are losing a lot you probably have a slow leak. Tires always lose a little anyway, you should always check tire pressure before a ride.

[ajay677]

You want to have lower pressure when riding in deeper snow. It gives you a bigger contact patch so you get a bit better traction. Don't go so low that you give yourself flats though. Just run the tire in the lower end of the recommended range.

[meb]

Managing Tire Pressure in Cold:

How do people do it? I don't want to over-inflate my new Nokians (Mount+Ground) .. they loose pressure in the cold (~0F right now), but I'm a big guy (220 lbs) and need all the pressure I can get so I'm not riding on rims, especially the back tire.

You could reinflate after the tires cool and bring the pressure back up. You may also need limit yourself to wider studded tires to avert the pinch flats.

[mechBgon]

The pressure in the tire should drop in proportion to the absolute temperature, as measured on an absolute scale like Kelvins. You can pre-compute the drop if you like, and overinflate at room temperature to compensate. Since room temperatures are around 300 Kelvins (to use a round number) and 0°C/32°F is 273K, you can go "ok, about a 10% drop at the freezing point" and overinflate 10%. At -20°C/0°F, you're down to 255K, roughly another 10% drop.

[2manybikes]

The pressure in the tire should drop in proportion to the absolute temperature, as measured on an absolute scale like Kelvins. You can pre-compute the drop if you like, and overinflate at room temperature to compensate. Since room temperatures are around 300 Kelvins (to use a round number) and 0°C/32°F is 273K, you can go "ok, about a 10% drop at the freezing point" and overinflate 10%. At -20°C/0°F, you're down to 255K, roughly another 10% drop.


I ride 22 psi and 25 psi with 40 lbs in the panniers over 3" ruts. If someone is starting with 40 lbs and the tires go down to 32 or up to 48 they will feel different but you can still ride. You still have to be carefull about what you hit at high speed. One still needs to check the tires everyday anyway. But mechBgon is cool for having that information. :) pun intended. :rolleyes:

mechBgon did you just get some new Nokians or was that someone else?

[mechBgon]

I ride 22 psi and 25 psi with 40 lbs in the panniers over 3" ruts. If someone is starting with 40 lbs and the tires go down to 32 or up to 48 they will feel different but you can still ride. You still have to be carefull about what you hit at high speed. One still needs to check the tires everyday anyway. But mechBgon is cool for having that information. :) pun intended. :rolleyes: Yeah, I studied 3.5 years for a Chemical Engineering degree before figuring out I couldn't handle it. But I still got some useful stuff sloshing around in my head here and there :) PV=nRT and all that.


mechBgon did you just get some new Nokians or was that someone else?I did get some new Extreme 294s, yeah, but so far I've only gotten about 5 miles on them, the short way home. They seem to have a bit better snow traction on mushed-up snow than the IRC Blizzards did. I haven't done any deliberate can-they-save-me-from-THIS?! type of testing on ice, since I was in traffic, but I know where there's some nasty polished-up wavy ice over by Gonzaga University if I feel like goofing around :)

[2manybikes]

Yeah, I studied 3.5 years for a Chemical Engineering degree before figuring out I couldn't handle it. But I still got some useful stuff sloshing around in my head here and there :) PV=nRT and all that.


I did get some new Extreme 294s, yeah, but so far I've only gotten about 5 miles on them, the short way home. They seem to have a bit better snow traction on mushed-up snow than the IRC Blizzards did. I haven't done any deliberate can-they-save-me-from-THIS?! type of testing on ice, since I was in traffic, but I know where there's some nasty polished-up wavy ice over by Gonzaga University if I feel like goofing around :)

what pressure are you using?

[Lieren]

Slicks don't work too badly in snow. Unless the snow is deep, a bike on slicks is oftenbetter than a car. I doubt whether you would need a ride home if caught by a surprise snow at work.

Paul

I have slicks on my bike and got less than a block on light snow earlier this week. The snow simply stuck to the tire and built up so that within seconds the entire tire was coated in snow. At which point you go down. What am I doing wrong???

(I'm in Philly and studded tires seem like overkill for the wimpy winters here, but the city doesn't handle snow well and few of the streets on my commute are likely to be plowed.)

[mechBgon]

what pressure are you using?I put them at about 45psi at room temperature, and it was around 10°F outside so that probably brought them down to around 40psi on the street. I don't want to run them too firm, but I don't want the knobs to just fold aside and not use their claws for lack of enough base support, either. This week I'm going to investigate some of the singletrack that I ride in the summer, and see if it's navigable.

[2manybikes]

I have slicks on my bike and got less than a block on light snow earlier this week. The snow simply stuck to the tire and built up so that within seconds the entire tire was coated in snow. At which point you go down. What am I doing wrong???

(I'm in Philly and studded tires seem like overkill for the wimpy winters here, but the city doesn't handle snow well and few of the streets on my commute are likely to be plowed.)

It's the conditions. Some times the snow is very sticky, sometimes it's not. It's usually less sticky below freezing.


I put them at about 45psi at room temperature, and it was around 10°F outside so that probably brought them down to around 40psi on the street. I don't want to run them too firm, but I don't want the knobs to just fold aside and not use their claws for lack of enough base support, either. This week I'm going to investigate some of the singletrack that I ride in the summer, and see if it's navigable.

The Iditabike racers with double wide rims run those tires at 5 psi sometimes with one bead glued to the rim so it won't rotate. If it's icy and snow try starting at 25 to 30 psi. especially if it's bumpy ice with footprints etc. This will also make the bike have better traction in the slush on the side of the road. It won't slide out quite as easlily, It's not a huge difference but it's better.
The tire will let the bike feel strange as the rim moves around a little compared to the tread. Don't worry about it. They seemed better than the IRC Blizzards to me too.

There's basically nothing except deep snow that will make single track impassible. The more ice the better the traction.

Don't forget the camera ! :)

[mechBgon]

If it's icy and snow try starting at 25 to 30 psi. especially if it's bumpy ice with footprints etc. This will also make the bike have better traction in the slush on the side of the road. It won't slide out quite as easlily, It's not a huge difference but it's better.
The tire will let the bike feel strange as the rim moves around a little compared to the tread. Don't worry about it. They seemed better than the IRC Blizzards to me too.I'll drop the pressure some more and try them like that :)


There's basically nothing except deep snow that will make single track impassible. The more ice the better the traction.

Don't forget the camera ! :)I dropped the camera the other day and something was loose inside. I took the shell off the core, reassembled it, and now I have four little screws left over :p But the camera still works, and whatever was loose is either out of it or has found a resting place, so I'll try to get some pics. Or perhaps some movies :)

[2manybikes]

I'll drop the pressure some more and try them like that :)


I dropped the camera the other day and something was loose inside. I took the shell off the core, reassembled it, and now I have four little screws left over :p But the camera still works, and whatever was loose is either out of it or has found a resting place, so I'll try to get some pics. Or perhaps some movies :)

Have a good time. :) movies! cool !

[gmacrider]

Maybe someone at bow cycle will let me buy spiked tires.

Oh yah Bow Cycle will take your money. And they'll even make you feel like they're doing you a favor by letting you be a customer. Kudos to the MEC guy for talking you out of buying the studs. I agree with him that you really don't need them in Calgary.

[Ken Cox]

The first year I rode through the winter I had a bad fall, broke four ribs and punctured a lung.
This cost me a month's work.
Bummer.

I tried Innova 35cm studded tires, which look a lot like the Nokian 106's:

http://www.suomityres.fi/bike/images/w106.jpg

The link above shows the Nokians.
Anyway, the Innovas threw studs and the remaining studs wore out in one winter.

I switched to Nokian 106's, and they work beautifully at about 50-55lbs of air pressure, except in rutted snow, and then they get trapped by the ruts and it gets scary.

I have ordered 40cm Nokian 240's:

http://www.suomityres.fi/bike/images/w240.jpg

I normally only need these for about a half mile of my 14/28 mile commute, but that half mile scares me.
Also, on the worse days, the 106's get a little marginal at intersections where the cars have created hills and holes in the ice (moguls).

A fellow commuter has asked to buy my 106's from me.
He lives about a mile and a half from me, and they plow more frequently there, and he has only packed snow on his route.
The 106's will handle packed snow and black ice easily.

I'll report on the 240's next week after I have ridden them a few times.

The rest of the year (the non-icy part) I ride a Continental Four Season Grand Prix in front and an Armadillo in back.

[joejack951]

Ken, do you think the extra studs will help with rutted snow? I have Nokian Mount and Ground 160's on my MTB and there wasn't much I could do but slow down and regain control when I got caught in ruts last week. The only thing that seemed like it might have helped would be wider tires (like some 3" wide downhill tires or something).

[2manybikes]

Ken, do you think the extra studs will help with rutted snow? I have Nokian Mount and Ground 160's on my MTB and there wasn't much I could do but slow down and regain control when I got caught in ruts last week. The only thing that seemed like it might have helped would be wider tires (like some 3" wide downhill tires or something).

Studs don't do anything in soft snow unless there is ice or hard packed snow underneath for them to bite into. If the studs land on something soft they can't grab anything. Much of the time on streets with traffic the snow underneath has a little strength to it, if the traffic packs it down. Every time the conditions are different you get different results. You just have to go out and try it.
Your right about ruts, wider tires may help if the ruts are narrow. But deep hard ruts are a problem.

[Ken Cox]

Talking to the winter riders around here, they say more studs make mo' bettah.

I have my eye on the 240 stud 40cm 700c Nokians to replace my 106 stud Nokians.
No one has ridden on those, here, but they have ridden on the 294 stud Nokians, which only confuses the issue, because the 294's have considerably more width as well as more studs.
Kinda like apples and pears.
They think I'll see an improvement over my 106's.

[joejack951]

I asked the question because I've read many times of this forum that studs don't do much on snow. My experience tells me the same. While I haven't had enough experience to know the full effects of tire width and tire pressure, I can say that it logically makes the most sense in terms of a way to get better traction in snow. Studs rock for packed snow and ice though.

[Ken Cox]

Well, on any given ride, here, I see everything from bare pavement to white ice, to black ice, to graded and packed snow, to fluffy/crunchy/mushy snow, to freshly fallen powder; all on one ride.

[joejack951]

Well, on any given ride, here, I see everything from bare pavement to white ice, to black ice, to graded and packed snow, to fluffy/crunchy/mushy snow, to freshly fallen powder; all on one ride.

On my one real snow ride this year, I saw all of the same as your description. It seems the only way to deal with conditions like that are to run tires for the worst conditions.

[Oldcastle]

Yeah started first season of winter ridin' and the last month has been a total mix of everything you listed off above. The snow had basically disappeared and left compacted snow/ice all over. Challenging to ride over at times. Was dark this am and rounded a curve slowing down pulled too hard on the front brake and woosh! No studs no stand up!
Was able to recover quickly and w/o any bruises but its time to try these studs out everyones talkin' about. It seems not worth waiting for a complete snowpack. Just get the studs on NOW!

OC

[2manybikes]

A great place to go for a ride with studded tires......

[Walkafire]

threw on a pair IRC "Blizzard" studs... had fun this morning... wooohooooo

Snowing and Loving it here! Course when I go to work this next week, I might throw the Conti Town & Country's back on. Not sure yet. I hit some wet pavement today and was looking for the deep stuff offroad. The Studs do make it more stable, but not sure how long I will keep them on. I am still trying to make another wheel set, to just be able to swap out the studs/slicks.

some great pics there 2manybikes! I like being the first on fresh snow, then come back and see others have traveled my path... I always think to myself, "hee hee...beat cha to it!"

[grapetonix]

I live in Sweden and just changed tires for the winter season, yes, the Nokian Hakkapelitta 106 tires give a great grip on those ice slicks that might otherwise send you into the ground. Don't know how much safer it actually is but - for sure a whole lot safer than my kevlar slicks.

[peregrine]

Well, on any given ride, here, I see everything from bare pavement to white ice, to black ice, to graded and packed snow, to fluffy/crunchy/mushy snow, to freshly fallen powder; all on one ride.


yeah, Bend's quite intense during winter, isn't it! Hats off to you for commuting year-round! :D


Have you tried the Nokian 700c 240-stud tires yet? Do you know how they compare to the 106? The weather here in Portland has gotten pretty bad so it looks like I'm gonna have to get those studded tires after all. From where did you order them btw?

[Ken Cox]

I rode the Nokian 240's (40cm) to work for the first time this morning on mixed bare pavement and ice, and then we had a significant snowstorm all day long and I rode home tonight on fresh snow, compacted snow, churned snow and every form of ice imagineable.
What a difference from the 106's.
I never had a moment of doubt about my ability to stay upright.
The 106's do well on ice, but not so well on compressible snow.
In 13.5 miles of snow and ice with the 240's I had to put my foot down only once.
I suppose the 240's present a slight increase in rolling resistance over the 106's, but I didn't notice it.
But then, I haven't ridden the 240's on completely bare pavement yet.

I had two interesting experiences on the way home.
Some kids in a SUV passed and spit on me and called me names, and a nice lady stopped in her big pickup and offered me a ride.
I said "thanks, but I do it for a hobby."
She laughed.

Anyway, I could have done the ride on my old 106's, and I have in the past, but I felt a lot safer on the 240's.

I ordered the 240's from Peter White.
If you can't get the 240's, the Nokian 106's do a great job.
From my college days in Portland, I only remember a few times I would have needed the 240's over the 106's.
But then, Portland has some nasty winters now and then... :)

[2manybikes]

I like being the first on fresh snow, then come back and see others have traveled my path... I always think to myself, "hee hee...beat cha to it!"


Me too. But I'm not always the first one.

[jimmibudd]

what a great thread!!!
i too am from winnipeg and i am trying to decdie which tires to purchse....
Nokians for sure, but which ones?
it's a toss up between using 2x294's or 2x120's (or maybe 1x294 on the front and 1x120 on the back?.. 'cept there isn't as much of a price diff between the 2, so i might as well spend the little extra and get the 294's....plus, the 120's on ebay are showing to be heavier than the 294's?).... the 120's have similar tread pattern as the 294's but no studs down the middle.....

anyways, i would like to hear how Moki made out wiht the new tires on winnipeg streets.... any one else have a comment?

thanks
jimmi

[lala]

Anyone know where I can get the Nokian 240 700cc (29")? Peter White is out of stock until next year!

[ItsJustMe]

I run Nokian 106's from first real snowfall until late March or so. The studs do touch the pavement a bit even when riding straight, but I want that because several miles of my ride is over gravel, which is actually hard packed snow much of the time, and it's hilly so I need climbing traction. I rode it one time without the studs and I had to walk up a few hills.
The studs are also nice for climbing out of ruts. The 106's aren't very aggressive for this, but they're a good compromise for those of us riding mostly on pavement, just trying to keep it upright.

[ghettocruiser]

I've put a few more weeks on the Nokians (294 and WXC300), and it confirmed my impression that they don't quite grab the ice as hard as the Ice Spikers that I used last year. The traction is certainly serviceable, but on the bike trail and hydro corridor sections of my commute, where I am riding on glazed-over footprints, I can feel a bit more lateral movement of the tires. Maybe it would help if I used my FS bike to reduce the bouncing of the wheels, but changing tires over is a pain and that bike is a beast on the road as it is.

On the other hand, knowing the the Nokian studs are carbide rather than steel means that I now can listen to them clattering on pavement without worrying that I am grinding them down to stumps, which was a big damper on my winter riding last year. Mounted on my XC bike they don't seem to drag as much either, the rides are only a few minutes longer than in the summer.

[2manybikes]

I've put a few more weeks on the Nokians (294 and WXC300), and it confirmed my impression that they don't quite grab the ice as hard as the Ice Spikers that I used last year. The traction is certainly serviceable, but on the bike trail and hydro corridor sections of my commute, where I am riding on glazed-over footprints, I can feel a bit more lateral movement of the tires. Maybe it would help if I used my FS bike to reduce the bouncing of the wheels, but changing tires over is a pain and that bike is a beast on the road as it is.

On the other hand, knowing the the Nokian studs are carbide rather than steel means that I now can listen to them clattering on pavement without worrying that I am grinding them down to stumps, which was a big damper on my winter riding last year. Mounted on my XC bike they don't seem to drag as much either, the rides are only a few minutes longer than in the summer.

What pressure are you running the Nokians at ? 25 psi will help your traction over the frozen foot prints.

[jimmibudd]

Hello everyone....

well after researching studded tires and watching eBay forever i ened up getting studded tires from my LBS.... i was in to have a small repair done and mentioned studded tires.... the guy there showed me the ones they make... they take stock MTB tires and put in screws along the edge... the screws they use look like vinyl roofing screws.. they are about 1/4'' wide and the end of the screw is screwed inot the tire leaving the 1/4" head exposed... the head has a deep groove cut into it that gives 2 sharp edges along the edge of the screws.. these are about 1/4" as well... they are along the edge and don't offer much ressitance on pavement... i think this is better than the nokians, or others, because they give a long shapr edge for traction instead of a small little screw head... and they are along the edge.. the screws are also carbide... they offer plenty of bite and make a cool sound on the pavement and when they bite into hard packed snow... the guy at the LBS said the screws were similar to ones used by motocross ice races... the studs were black originally but the edges are turning silver-ish as the paint wears off... the front tire weighs 765g and the back weighs 890g, so not a lot lighter than Nokians, but i like the studs better.. i've had them for about 2 weeks and i love them... great price and they work!!

i think they totally rock, and they were $49.99CDN ($43ish US)each... i think they also offer free shipping on orders over $100...

i would suggest that people take a look at these (no pic at the link... maybe if you email them they will send/post a pic).. i would also suggest that before people send bigbucks to have some highend brandname tires mailed to them that they check out their own LBS for studded tires...

anways, i love them... they work, they're cheap, they're local and the look/sound supercool...

i hope i'm allowed to plug my LBS, but here goes... Alter-Ego Sports on Pembina Hwy in winnipeg, manitoba... check out the link...

http://alteregosports.shop2.mtsyellowpages.com/product.php?txtCatID=832&txtProdID=3469

jimmi

[meb]

Hello everyone....

well after researching studded tires and watching eBay forever i ened up getting studded tires from my LBS.... i was in to have a small repair done and mentioned studded tires.... the guy there showed me the ones they make... they take stock MTB tires and put in screws along the edge... the screws they use look like vinyl roofing screws.. they are about 1/4'' wide and the end of the screw is screwed inot the tire leaving the 1/4" head exposed... the head has a deep groove cut into it that gives 2 sharp edges along the edge of the screws.. these are about 1/4" as well... they are along the edge and don't offer much ressitance on pavement... i think this is better than the nokians, or others, because they give a long shapr edge for traction instead of a small little screw head... and they are along the edge.. the screws are also carbide... they offer plenty of bite and make a cool sound on the pavement and when they bite into hard packed snow... the guy at the LBS said the screws were similar to ones used by motocross ice races... the studs were black originally but the edges are turning silver-ish as the paint wears off... the front tire weighs 765g and the back weighs 890g, so not a lot lighter than Nokians, but i like the studs better.. i've had them for about 2 weeks and i love them... great price and they work!!

i think they totally rock, and they were $49.99CDN ($43ish US)each... i think they also offer free shipping on orders over $100...

i would suggest that people take a look at these (no pic at the link... maybe if you email them they will send/post a pic).. i would also suggest that before people send bigbucks to have some highend brandname tires mailed to them that they check out their own LBS for studded tires...

anways, i love them... they work, they're cheap, they're local and the look/sound supercool...

i hope i'm allowed to plug my LBS, but here goes... Alter-Ego Sports on Pembina Hwy in winnipeg, manitoba... check out the link...

http://alteregosports.shop2.mtsyellowpages.com/product.php?txtCatID=832&txtProdID=3469

jimmi

Why is there a difference in weight between the front and rear?

How many studs per tire?

[meb]

I have a set of 160 stud/tire that has been shipped to me. I might order one of the 300 stud /tire vicinity. Is it best to put a high stud count tire in front or back when mixed with a medium stud count tire? What about low stud count tires mixed with high or medium stud count tires?

[jimmibudd]

the front and rear tires are different brands.... the front is a Tioga and the back is a Serf... their tread patterns suit the arrangement....
there are 50 studs per tire (although there is room for 50 more studs too. the guys at Alter Ego were pretty cool and may add the additional 50 studs if requested...)
these are not like the studs in the nokians or schwabbe or innova... THOSE studs are little nail-like tips/points and are primarily made of steel... THESE studs are the HEAD of a carbide screw, which has 2 crazy-sharp edges that are roughly a 1/4"... so instead of one little dinky point you get 2 sharp 1/4" edges per stud... maybe i can get a picture and post it
the studs are screwed into a knob that runs along the edge of the tread pattern, so it doesn't wear on pavement and slow you down on smooth days, although you can still hear them a little... especially on corners... and can deflate PSi to give more contact
i think they're awesome....
somebody else buy some to confirm my conclusion!!!

in terms of which tire to put where in terms of stud count.... i would guess that the higher the stud count the better it would be on the front rim.... other people may have different opinions though....

J

[jimmibudd]

hey folks....
thought i would post some pix of my studded tires...
from these pix you can see the screw heads really well and how they are cut to have 2 sharp edges...
i love them... they have great bite and make a cool sound on hardpack...

check 'em out.... worth every penny($50CDN each)... and cheaper than nokians!! possibly, better!

jimmi

i'm trying a new way to post the pix.... i hope they work...!!
first a few front tire pix:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f100/jimmibudd/fronttire2.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f100/jimmibudd/fronttire2a.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f100/jimmibudd/fronttire3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f100/jimmibudd/fronttire3a.jpg

a couple back tire pix:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f100/jimmibudd/backtire1.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f100/jimmibudd/backtire3a.jpg

[TRaffic Jammer]

I've never needed studs in all the years I've been winter riding.
check out the build your own ice tires

http://coupedesglaces.org/

[sbeatonNJ]

I run an IRC Blizzard in the front for snowy/icey days. Last week was the first time I ran it and I noticed quite a bit of difference over my Fire XC Pro. For convience sake I have a NOS (Deore DX) wheel that I keep it on.