Commuting - Are all pickup drivers jerks?

i am also an avid motorcyclist and have learned to "profile" drivers based on what kind of vehicle they are piloting. applying this principle i have found that pickup drivers are by far the worse danger to me on my bicycle. i can count on them to 1) give me the least room, 2) cut me off, 3) generally disregard my right to travel the road.

have others found this to be true? why are such a large percentage of pickup truck drivers such jerks (at least in relation to other types of drivers)?

Over here it's small van drivers - the 'white van'.

Richard

Originally posted by Richard D
Over here it's small van drivers - the 'white van'.

Richard

Funny you should mention white vans... I was commuting home on a 4 lane highway just the other day. A white van pulled over onto the shoulder of the road directly in front of me. I had to brake hard to avoid hitting it. I refused to go around the van on the passenger side as I'd have to pass the sliding door, but I couldn't just jump out into traffic and ride around him either. I ended up waiting for traffic to eventually clear and got around him. It wasn't 30 seconds later he was off driving again and turned ahead of me and parked on a side road. I didn't think much of it, but about 10 miles later he did the same thing! (pulling to the a side road and watching) I was so suprised to see him again! No nothing happened, but it freaked me out a bit. :mad:

Beemers. Even the ones with bike racks.

I guess I'm a jerk!

L8R

I drive a truck. I'm not a jerk.

before i get flamed crispy, please note that my initial post says, "a higher PERCENTAGE of pickup drivers are jerks than any kind of driver."

it was never intended as a blanket statement, and if i've ruffled feathers, i apologize. i've owned trucks, too.

I live in an area where there are alot of people who are into taking there truck / jeep into the back country / rock-crawling. I have to say, these are the BEST drivers to be around. They always give me extra wide birth, you can hear them coming up from a mile away, and there great to draft behind.

I rarely have trouble with motorists, but the most common are moms in vans paying more attention to there kids then the road. And those little rice rockets that think its fun to race anything, including guys on bikes...

I drive a truck. I am a jerk.

Make up your mind Alan! :D

I was going to say .. I think you're both jerks. :D

Originally posted by Jeepbikerun
Funny you should mention white vans...

Hehe, White Vans! I got nudged by one the other day. He passed me on the left, then just after his rear bumper cleared my front wheel, he whipped over in front of me. I ran into the side of it and got hung on the side mirror. This was at relatively low speed going uphill and I didn't suffer damage. The guy apologized; he was completely clueless.

Stay away from these vans!

In response to the original question: Yes


:crash:

I think it's difficult to profile pickup drivers. Unlike say a Mustang, pickups are purchased many times to fill a practical need. Pickups are very popular where i live. You have the young kids who have trucks to haul their quads and motos around. The tradesmen and farmers actually using them for work. The old guys that have just always owned pickups. Women who drive them too feel powerful. The horse people who drive those huge duallies to pull their trailers. there's plenty of other catagories I'm sure.

I drive a pickup for work and I'm an avid bike commuter. My experience is that the biggest threat to me on the road are stressed out working mothers; talking on the cell, yelling at the kids, rushing to daycare, soccer practice, viola lessons, etc... They're usually driving a Suv or minivan and watch out they're ready to explode.:crash:

In all honesty, I drive a truck also. There are those ignorant redneck hicks who think monster trucks are a form of legitimate theatre, but the majority I find are pretty good. It seems no matter what you drive, if you have a cell phone to your ear you will drive like a complete [insert expletive].:fight:

well, especially from living in Texas i think that Pickup drivers are more likely to 1) not understand cyclists or respect cyclists' right to the road 2) tailgate or driver as if they own the road 3) not use turn signal or do other basic safety things because "they're safe in their big truck" and don't need to do wussy safety things

that being said, i think some of the worst are usually not Pickups, but more likely Sports Cars --- probably the most often seen is the Mustang or Camaro with the young male driver who drives like he's practicing on his own private raceway, swerving in and out of lanes, never signalling, tailgating and driving agressively. these are the guys that drive up fast behind a cyclist and rev the engine as a warning that you should get out of the way...

but, as someone said, there are good friendly drivers and bad and agressive drivers in every type of vehicle...

as a cyclist there are generally 4 types that are especially dangerous:
1) incompetent drivers - either 16 yr olds or old people who can't see straigh and shouldn't be driving (my grandmother refused to stop driving even after she had numerous accidents and no one in the family would ride with her -- after about 6 years she finally gave in) --- these are the ones that might turn right in front of you or inadvertently drive on the shoulder or whatever
2) agressive/impatient drivers - they are in a hurry and so safety is cut to save time. a cyclist is ANOTHER time delay in additon to traffic and accidents
3) distracted drivers -- the mom looking at the kids in the back seat or the driver on the cell phone -- they don't pay attention so accident likelihood increases - problem is for them it would be a "fender-bender" with their airbags and all, but it could kill a cyclist!
4) kids having fun "tormenting" or attacking cyclists -- these are the kids that "for fun" throw soda bottles at cyclists or drive right up next to a cyclist and yell "Boo!" or honk the the horn -- usually more talk than threat

Pickup drivers usually are more likely to fit into the agressive/impatient group than most.

An interesting side note is that the national statics show that pickup drivers wear their seat blets less than anyone else.

An interesting side note is that the national statics show that pickup drivers wear their seat blets less than anyone else.

i've noticed that too. i think there are 2 reasons:
1) pickup in design haven't changed too much and they didn't used to have seat belts or just lap belts and no one wore them... so pickup drivers are used to hopping in their truck on the bench seat and not buckling up, so they still don't ---- a "new" car is different as it has a whole different feel
2) pickup drivers feel safe in their huge trucks so they feel they don't need to buckle up

as a former Pickup owner ('73 GMC Full Size with 454 motor from '92-'96, yes i know it was a polluter)... i would wear my seatbelt when i drove a car but not when i drove my pickup (also it only had lap belts)

Hmmmm, I usually generalize people by the what they drive. You have to, just to be safe.

BUT, I have talked to many motorists in pick-up trucks who have been nothing but nice to me and interested in where I am from, how far I am riding, how fast I can go, etc. There are the others that are (who Bandit is reffering) the male macho "I need a MAN truck and haven't got time for these ****** bikers on the roads" personality type. They usually have dressed-up pretty trucks.

Kinda like that GM commericial where a guy hooks up a chain to a tower and pulls it down with his truck. And the deep resonating voice proclaims "A MAN and his TRUCK....." oh please....


But to give some further generalizations:
1) Be wary of pickups, especially dressed-up ones

2) Be scared of Trans-ams or other muscle cars

3) Be doubly scared of low end cars with wide tires, 'go-faster' racing strips, wipe antenneas on the back, fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror, etc. Like a souped up Chevy Nova of Chev Cavalier.

4) Be terrified if the driver is wearing a baseball cap on backwards. It is a kid out driving around in daddies car.

5) Be doubly terrified if he has his buddies with him (testosterone will start to fly) as you WILL BE used as a source of entertainment.

Digger

Originally posted by digger
5) Be doubly terrified if he has his buddies with him (testosterone will start to fly) as you WILL BE used as a source of entertainment.
Add a couple of girls to the mix, and you'll have a potentially lethal dose of testosterone poisoning. Give wide berth, no matter what you're driving.

Originally posted by Jeepbikerun


Funny you should mention white vans... I was commuting home on a 4 lane highway just the other day. A white van pulled over onto the shoulder of the road directly in front of me. I had to brake hard to avoid hitting it. I refused to go around the van on the passenger side as I'd have to pass the sliding door, but I couldn't just jump out into traffic and ride around him either. I ended up waiting for traffic to eventually clear and got around him. It wasn't 30 seconds later he was off driving again and turned ahead of me and parked on a side road. I didn't think much of it, but about 10 miles later he did the same thing! (pulling to the a side road and watching) I was so suprised to see him again! No nothing happened, but it freaked me out a bit. :mad:

This behaviour sounds mighty suspicious to me.

I would use your cell phone to phone his registration and discription to a friend if it happens again. Let him see you do it. You can't be too careful, there are a lot of very unpleasant people out there. Don't take any risks. Promise:(

I also engage in driver profiling. I look for telling clues about a driver's capabilities by the appearance of his or her car.

For instance, a downturned rear view mirror is a clear sign of innattentiveness. You can be assured that the knucklehead has no clue you're behind them.

Dirty, smudgy windows indicates an uncaring sort -- dangerous.

Small-framed people with straight, jet black hair are to be carefully watched as they oftentimes cannot see over the dashboard and are generally terrible drivers. (I know, this is blatant profiling, but it IS TRUE.)

Watch for subtle clues of a driver's awareness. For instance, if the driver catches you in his/her rear view mirror as they pass, they will probably position themselves favorably at the next light -- maybe pulling out of the bike lane while turning right, or even waiting for you to pass. Those that pass with no further glance "forget" you and will not consider you at the next light.

For the smart alek kids mentioned in earlier posts, the best defense is an aggressive approach. This is true for drivers, overall, in my view. I think they appreciate and respect an aggressive (but not unlawful) bike-commuter because it assures them that the biker is aware of what's going on and is in control. It relieves the pressure they feel or, in the case of the smart alek, shows them that you can't be cowed into submission so easily.

I have a truck and I am not a jerk! Atleast not all the time. Can't beat a truck with a camper and bike rack for a weekend of riding/camping.

This seems to fit in with this topic.

Check out this new truck (http://www.totalobscurity.com/mind/fordphallus/index.html)

ChipR

B]For the smart alek kids mentioned in earlier posts, the best defense is an aggressive approach. This is true for drivers, overall, in my view. I think they appreciate and respect an aggressive (but not unlawful) bike-commuter because it assures them that the biker is aware of what's going on and is in control. It relieves the pressure they feel or, in the case of the smart alek, shows them that you can't be cowed into submission so easily.[/B]


Ahh, I don't believe aggressive wil work for these kids. They either throw something at you, scream or play "how close can I get".

Agressive will do nothing, especially if their PRIDE is on the line. They cannot be seen backing down in front of their buddies and especially if girls are in the car. They WILL follow through. I had one kid tell me "where gonna kill you bicycle man!! Where gonna kill you!" I got off the road, got the number, call the cops, gave a statement. Mommy called the next day and apologized.

But no, those kids were not driving a pickup. :)

Originally posted by earleybird


This behaviour sounds mighty suspicious to me.

I would use your cell phone to phone his registration and discription to a friend if it happens again. Let him see you do it. You can't be too careful, there are a lot of very unpleasant people out there. Don't take any risks. Promise:(


Oh I promise I don't take risks. I was even thinking of getting some kind of pepper spray. I thought riding in such a busy area would be the best bet, because someone would witness if something happened. However, you never know if people are too busy getting somewhere to care. I sure hope not.

Originally posted by Joe Gardner
I live in an area where there are alot of people who are into taking there truck / jeep into the back country / rock-crawling. I have to say, these are the BEST drivers to be around..

Well I don't live that close to you but I do feel complimented anyways. |8^) I do find that people who are serious about off-roading their vehicles tend to be good drivers. You really have to know your corners and how your vehicle performs in a variety of situations when you're balancing on slippery boulders without all four wheels touching and surrounded by jagged rock face. SUV and truck drivers who have taken the time to explore the envelope of their vehicles' capabilities (in a legal fashion) benefit from a better understanding of things like momentum management... something your average soccermom behind the wheel of a Suburban typically lacks. This is why rollovers in SUVs is so common. People neglect the fact that not all vehicles drive the same. People get into trouble when they try and maneuver their Ford Explorer in the same fashion as the Chevy Cavalier they learned to drive in during driver's ed many years ago.

Originally posted by Jeepbikerun



Oh I promise I don't take risks. I was even thinking of getting some kind of pepper spray. I thought riding in such a busy area would be the best bet, because someone would witness if something happened. However, you never know if people are too busy getting somewhere to care. I sure hope not.

I don't know about pepper spray. If I lived in oz or US I would getone of those capacitive discharge things ( minicattle prod)
trouble is you might accidently fry yourself whilst riding along.
What a sight all your hair standing on end doing amazing bunny hops along the highway:D

it might be worth mentioning at this point that no matter how crazy you think you're getting (pepper spray, mazer, etc., etc.) there is a good chance you will someday run into someone who is much, much crazier.

personally, i make it a point to control my temper. i try to remember i am a guppy swimming in a sea of sharks.

I also engage in driver profiling, and yes, pick-up/ute drivers are usually on the worst end of it. That's not to say that I actively seek to take out my frustrations on them, it's just that when I'm around them, I prepare myself to take certain precautions. That's all.

If people out on the road give me crap, I tend to ignore them regardless of what they drive.

chris l. .... if i resembled a gorilla i would be much more apt to be confrontational with drivers! ;-)

Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
Small-framed people with straight, jet black hair are to be carefully watched as they oftentimes cannot see over the dashboard

Hey! I resemble that remark. |8^) There really is no reason for someone to be operating a vehicle without being able to see out of it properly.



Originally posted by Andy Dreisch
and are generally terrible drivers. (I know, this is blatant profiling, but it IS TRUE.)

Ahhh... I think you're referring to the Bay Area phenomenon commonly known as DWA. I think there are more factours that lead to this than being asian or small-framed but I guess those are physically telling features. I'm asian and small-framed and I like to think I'm a pretty decent driver but then again self-evaluation only gets you so far. And for you other readers, yes this is a horrible stereotype but if you've ever lived in the BA, you'd realise there is quite a bit of truth in it. I've also seen people refer to other drivers as having DWA even though they didn't have those specific physical features.

Originally posted by Bandit
chris l. .... if i resembled a gorilla i would be much more apt to be confrontational with drivers! ;-)

Yeah, but the full moon won't last forever! :eek:

My experience is that rednecks in trucks are dangerous, regular types of people aren't. What really frightens me is a soccer-mom with a cell phone.

In Darwin I found the worst 'drivers' were in a car they sell here called a Proton Satria (a malaysian made Dodge Colt).

This is a cheap, fast car favoured by high school students who put boom boxes and play RnB and hip-hop at about 5000 Decibels.

They overtake in front of semi-trailers on two lane roads, overtake on opposing lanes on divided roads, run up on footpaths, tailgate, speed, everything.

In Darwin I found the worst 'drivers' were in a car they sell here called a Proton Satria (a malaysian made Dodge Colt).


YEAH! That's it! That's exactly what I mean. The kids are the worst.

I will admit to "profiling" autos as well. There are two types of problem drivers I've encountered.

1. Trucks pulling trailers. These seem to be a dime a dozen in the upper-class neighborhoods I ride through, driven by landscapers and such. None of them seem to remember that they have the trailer hooked up. After overtaking you with just the truck, they quickly pull to the right, forcing you off the road with the trailer.

2. Sports cars. These guys are usually just a nuisance, not a threat, so I try to ignore them, but their antics can be hilarious. I've had sports cars burn rubber while passing me, drive in reverse on the wrong side of the road and then give me the finger, tell me they're trying to run me over, etc.

Tim

Originally posted by LET
What really frightens me is a soccer-mom with a cell phone.

LET, you've hit it on the head. This species is well-propagated in the Sacramento area. She's usually driving a gigantic vehicle like an Excursion or Tahoe.

And, she'd probably be shocked and offended at the suggestion that she's anything less than the safest of safe drivers. Why, just look at the super-safe vehicle she has bought to transport her children to soccer, scouts, music lessons!

Feh.

Originally posted by caloso
And, she'd probably be shocked and offended at the suggestion that she's anything less than the safest of safe drivers. Why, just look at the super-safe vehicle she has bought to transport her children to soccer, scouts, music lessons!
Feh.

YES, YES - thank you for taking the words out of my mouth!

The most distracted "drivers" tooling around in these HUGE autos that sit WAY up off the ground think that they are the safe ones.

My last negative encounter was with a white, new and shiny oversized PU like Digger described. Just thought he had to have the whole road including my share as well. Could not wait 4 seconds to see around the turn and then pass safely in the other lane. Dear hubby, darling wife and small child in back part of cab where all safe from the crazy on the recumbent.

I would agree and I could even add that the older the truck the worst jerks they are, the bigger the tires the bigger the jerk, the louder truck the bigger jerk and Chevy truck drivers seem to top the jerk list over here.

Khuon & Andy,

RE: Stereotyping

I think that the DWA sterotype only seems to fit the 1st generation immigrant. I don't see any evidence that the children who were raised in this country have any particularly bad driving habits. I tend to think of the problem as being one of being exposed to driving and learning to drive relatively late in life as opposed to a certain ethnicity. It may also be that US signage requires the ability to read english as opposed to European signage that does not require any reading ability.

Steve

I’m such a jerk that sometimes when I’m hauling my bike to the LBS for repair in my Chevy: I pull over, set it on the side of the road, get back in my truck and pull right next to it. Then I BLOW THE HORN REAL LOUD AND SWEAR AT IT!

Originally posted by OhiOH
...I pull over, set it on the side of the road, get back in my truck and pull right next to it. Then I BLOW THE HORN REAL LOUD AND SWEAR AT IT!
:D :roflmao: :roflmao: :D


I used to drive a loud, old 1985 Dodge Ram. I just recently got a (bit newer) Chevy PU, I think I may have to put some bigger tyres on it though. (Only cuz the speedometer is off though):p

I have not had anyone hassle me on my bike yet, and I always try to be courteous as well.

Young drivers-- juveniles-- are the ones I've had the most trouble with out here. Pickup trucks not especially. Drivers of those trucks give me plenty of clearance, though I have noticed they don't care much to slow down when they pass, and they enjoy gunning the engine.

I've had pickup truck drivers stopped in front of me at a stop sign who will pull out, and let me draft down the road. They are curious and surprised to see our speed get up over 30 mph, and seemed to be having as much fun as I was.

i live in the suburbs of the Baltimore-Washington area, and there aren't many trucks where i ride. The cars most annoying are the civics/compact cars with the body kits, exhaust, and tinted windows. They drive too fast, are usually driven by inexperienced drivers, and never give me enough room.

Another annoying part is that the majority of these cars are not even really hooked up! Instead, they are diven by posers with their mom's hand-me down civic that they put exhaust on to make it sound hooked-up. My '96 ford minivan probably could beat their civic in a drag race. Not that i would ever do that type of thing...

The funny thing is, it's usually the pick-up/ute drivers who have the redneck attitudes. The professional drivers who do the long-haul stuff in the really big trucks are usually the ones I have the least problems with.

In Minnesota it's the ones who drive old rusty pickup trucks with no mufflers or fat old guys smoking cigars driving Cadillacs.

I'll agree that MOST, not all truck drivers think their running Baha as they drive down the streets in So CA. Their parents did them an injustice when young and never slapped them up side the head when they didn't want to share... Hence, their less then desirable attitude about "sharing" the road with others.

Oh, I can't forget a bigger problem on So CA highways... The mothers with a cell phone attached to her stupid head while driving an SUV with screaming kids in the back :confused: Glad when the cell phone laws are enforced here.

Originally posted by Chris L
The funny thing is, it's usually the pick-up/ute drivers who have the redneck attitudes. The professional drivers who do the long-haul stuff in the really big trucks are usually the ones I have the least problems with.

Sure wouldn't want to be out enjoying a nice bike ride, sharing the road with cages and behaving, and have one of your "Road Trains" pass me at speed...... YIKES :eek: