Classic & Vintage - Ornate Shimano 600 gruppo?

I picked up a high-end Ross at a yard sale today that has the strangest parts I've ever seen. The derailleurs, shifters, cranks, and brakes are Shimano "600" series (precursors to the Ultegra line, if posters in the mechanics forum are to be believed). The parts are cast to look like they're engraved!! Also, the cranks have "self-extracting" bolts (like those on Octalink cranks), but the axle is square taper! The derailleurs and shifters are particularly ornate with scrollwork on both the cage and the parallel arms of the derailleur.

Is there a name for this stuff? Is it rare or worth cleaning up?

Thanks!

sounds like the "arabesque" group. aka 600EX. aka the 6200 series.
early 80's stuff
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/

I don't know if it is the official name, but the collectors call it Arabesque. and yeah, it has some value - usually not as much as campy, more than the rest of the vintage shimano save dura ace. The bicycle, though, is it a signature series? some of the early ones were constructed by a fairly famous collection of framebuilders - you should post some pictures before you part it out...

...The bicycle, though, is it a signature series? some of the early ones were constructed by a fairly famous collection of framebuilders - you should post some pictures before you part it out...

The only markings on the frame at all are the "Ross" logos (in gold) on the downtube, the Ross plate on the head tube, and the tubing sticker "024 Ishiwata Cr Mo double butted."

sounds like the "arabesque" group. aka 600EX...

That is the stuff, alright. Any idea what a full gruppo is worth?

The only markings on the frame at all are the "Ross" logos (in gold) on the downtube, the Ross plate on the head tube, and the tubing sticker "024 Ishiwata Cr Mo double butted."
There may be a model designation on the chainstay. I recently picked up a similar bike, a 292S. Came with another ornate and attractive component group, the early Shimano 105 Golden Arrow parts. Very nice riding bike, by the way. You may want to consider keeping it the way it is, I love riding mine.

Pics would be great!! :)

Shimano used the term Arabesque in their marketing literature, the parts used a model series, 6200 sounds about right. It was Shimano's attempt to apply ornament to their components, a meager attempt to cash in on the styling of Campagnolo Nuovo Record. Campagnolo of course set a high standard where the styling was not added on but completely integrated into the components. Took Shimano about another 12 years to find their own visual voice.

Definitely sounds like the Shimano Arabesque style components of the very early 80's. I believe Ross used these parts on $250 to $300 retail bikes. They looked nice but did not enhance the shifting experience. I can't imagine that they are worth anything above the usual going prices for parts of that era.

Shimano used the term Arabesque in their marketing literature, the parts used a model series, 6200 sounds about right. It was Shimano's attempt to apply ornament to their components, a meager attempt to cash in on the styling of Campagnolo Nuovo Record. Campagnolo of course set a high standard where the styling was not added on but completely integrated into the components. Took Shimano about another 12 years to find their own visual voice.

By your reasoning, you could argue that all the post NR/SR Camagnolo equipment is a meager attempt to cash in on Shimano's aesthetics and technology. Most of to-day's styling stems from the ultra sleek styling of Shimano's AX groups from 1981. BTW, this was only 3 years after the introduction of the 600EX group, so they found their visual identity pretty quick. As for the technology, Campagnolo has copied Shimano for freehubs, indexed shifting, brifters, dual-pivot brakes, etc. And of course, all modern derailleurs evolved from SunTour's pantagraph, slant parallelogram design.

In the end though, it is the marketplace that determines the trends. Regardless of who has initiated the idea, the other manufacturers will follow, if the figures indicate that they are losing sales to the idea. It doesn't matter whether the advantages are real or perceived, only that the marketplace responds postively. Ornamentation was simply the dominant pre-1980s style and Campagnolo did it very nicely.

Shimano was very willing to spend $ to keep trying and capture more market share. I have a first generation freehub from 1979. The first Dura-Ace SIS stuff used freewheels, they only a few years later later brought it back, marketing big time, with some engineering foresight. Campagnolo was desperate in the 1980's to get around the Suntour patent, a patent search shows over a dozen attempts to design a mechanism to get around it. When the patent expired, it was part of the beginning of the end for Suntour.

I also have a set of cranks with Dynadrive pedals, good enough to win the '84 Olympic road race but never in the marketplace.

In the case of freehubs, Shimano introduced their version in 1978 and never did abandon it. All the Dura-Ace and 600 groups used the freehub from it's inception and that includes the first SIS group. However, they did realize that there was still a big marketplace for freewheels and they decided to market both freehubs and freewheels, until the marketplace recognized the superiority of the freehub design. Marketing SIS compatible freewheels was also a sound financial move for the upgrade market. It allowed Shimano to market mini-groups (SIS compatible derailleurs, shifters, chains and freewheels) that allowed friction system users to convert to Shimano SIS, without having to buy a new bicycle or complete group. Once they got them using SIS, the odds of their bicycle purchase being Shimano equipped, increased drastically. Shimano converted a lot of people via their mini-groups.

Personally, I loved the Dyna-Drive cranks and pedals. The were more comfortable and stable than a traditional quill pedal with toe clips and straps. However, the public was resistant to the oversize axle and the need to buy both the pedals and a expensive crankset. This is a very good example of marketplace killing a product, regardless of the technical merits. As I said, ultimately it's the marketplace that establishes the trends, regardless of the merits. Perhaps if Shimano had used a standard style axles, as in the original Hi-E pedlas, then the concept may have survived, at least until the advent of clipless pedals.

If the Dynadrive offset was superior, why not have created a Look style Dynadrive pedal? Either big hole or 9/16"?

Also, or a short period until competitors found a way around the patent, Look owned the market, Shimano paid the royalties even. Campagnolo was resistant and paid the price. Now those SGR pedals are curiosities.

When SIS first came out, the ONLY hub one could use to fit the Shimano alignment tool was a threaded hub, designed for freewheels. The Freehubs were vaporware if they existed, (kind of like Microsoft), for the first year. Might have existed in Japan but no distributor would carry them. The Shimano USA promotional stuff I threw out long ago did not list them nor show an image.

Yes, I would have bought a Dyna-Drive, LOOK compatible pedal. Perhaps Shimano will revist the concept sometime in the future. They have been known to resurrect old ideas.

Vaporware? Maybe, but the first year SIS ads show both cassette and freewheel compatible hubs.

You're correct about the TL-RD10 being designed for freewheel hubs, but it was used primarily by LBS for upgrading bicycles, most of which would have used freewheel hubs. Apparently, Campagnolo owners were a specific target market, as the instructions specically mention setup using Campagnolo hubs.

It's obvious that we are not going to come to agreement on this issue, so we'll just have to 'agree to disagree'.

well, hey. thanks for an interesting, civil discussion. I learned a lot. btw, the Araya in my garage is supposed to be an '80, and has a first generation freehub, which would probably have brought it to the Araya assembly line in '79...

Apparently, Campagnolo owners were a specific target market, as the instructions specically mention setup using Campagnolo hubs.


We got a big chuckle regarding the specific request to use a Campagnolo hub to set up the tool with. As far as Campagnolo owners being a target, probably, as Shimano was not popular yet with the racers, but remember an unlaced hub had to be used to set up the tool with, the support tool of choice was a fresh Campagnolo hub from stock. We did however use that tool for ALL set up work thereafter, it allowed much better, measurable alignment.

At the time we called it sissy shifting, it did however help many who were not willing to go thorugh the learning curve a fighting chance with shifting.