Where to stop at red light?

[The Seldom Kill]

HH may say anything at all, as is his style. And others can consider the value of HH's statements as is their choice. And others may have read all they care to ever read of HH's statements and delete/ignore all further HH proclamations without reading them at all.

That sounds like handbags at dawn to me. :D

[Bekologist]

MY political statement at intersections, the ones where I am halfway to the next light before the drivers catch up is "you're a bunch of idiots, gashuffers!"

And the statement I make while waiting behind cars is, "You're all a bunch of gashuffing idiots."

I'm serious, overthinking political statements while biking can lead to mental saddlesores, if you ride with your head in the 'posterior postulating position.'

It's moot what you think your political statement in an intersection would be on a bicycle, if you are thinking about it while in a car or on a motorscooter.

[patc]

Hi Everyone,

On a 4-lane street with a right turn lane, when I come up to a red light and there is a car in front of me in the 2nd lane, should I stay behind that car or should I pull up next to that car on the right but staying in the same lane? My son says I should do the latter. Which is correct?
Michele

"Correct" is whatever works best for you. Given that, here are my concerns when faced with that decision.

1- What position requires me to interact with cars the most? If I am sharing a wide lane, merging into the lane required negotiating a merge. Every intersection with cars involves risk. In dense traffic, it may not be easy to merge back.
2- Am I worried about visibility? If I take the lane, will I be hidden behind a large truck, a bus, or 12 cars? Will drivers in the cross-direction and left-turners ahead see me, or see a gap in traffic?
3- Regardless of the width of the current lane, what is the actual lane width at the intersection? They sometimes narrow.
4- What is the curb construction? Is there a physical barrier between the through lane and the right-turn lane?
5- Can I position myself in what I find is the best for visibility when sharing the lane: with my front wheel between the stop line and cross-walk, so I am "sticking out" in front of traffic?
6- Which position will result in the least inhaled exhaust? (Yes, it makes a HUGE difference if you're sensitive to exhaust.)
7- Are there any special signal considerations? Eg. advanced left-turn signal; or one direction getting the green first, etc.

This is a time when visibility wins out for me, I will usually filter forward is there are more than one or two cars ahead of me at the red light, I feel further back than that you become a gap in traffic. I won't, however, filter forward if there is no curb/island between the lanes.

This is also the type of intersection I make note of: if it's significantly busy and/or part of a bike route, it may be a good place for a bike lane or bike box.

[Bekologist]

Since no one bothered to ask the original poster (myself included!) about traffic speeds or any other qualifiers about the roadway, it seems we are collectively more interested in posturing about quantum intersection positioning than dispensing actual advice. (although snippets have certainly snuck in)

I think ANY given intersection is SO situational dependant a choice of either is unique every time.

At any one intersection, sometimes an approach towards the front is justified, and sometimes a holding back is more appropriate.

A tactic to avoid these decisions altogther is to time your approaches to intersection controls using the 'roll-n-slow' technique, favored by some cyclists approaching 4 way stops with one or two cars ahead, or by slowing and timing your approach to a stoplight cycle by watching for the red hand flashing and the yellows as you approach the light.

These decisions are made hundreds of times on every ride by every bicyclist.

Sometimes an intersection is weighted towards one approach or the other, and sometimes the intersection is ambigious.

Rather than political correctness, approach each stop as a unique stop, and hold 'safety first!' as the mantra as you decide yourself,

"Do I hang, or ride to the front of the line?"

[ghettocruiser]

As I've mentioned before, I've been hit from behind twice in the last two years while stopped at a red light in my car. Enough to barely crack the bumper, but on a bike this could be a lot more damaging. I've also seen this happen four or five times in the same period to other cars while I was riding. It is not a rare occurance.

If you choose to stop behind the last car, make sure you keep an eye out behind you.

[Bekologist]

It's funny now, but I've been hit from behind both in my car AND on a bike.

A couple of my off the cuff observations about lane positioning at traffic controls-

*the only bicyclist showing submissive behavior is the one at the back of the line!*

and

* queing up in traffic at signal controls along 100 km/hr roadways is a bit odd if there's good rolling real estate to your right with which to share the lane. *

[Brad M]

split the lane, run the red.

[nova]

Hi Everyone,

On a 4-lane street with a right turn lane, when I come up to a red light and there is a car in front of me in the 2nd lane, should I stay behind that car or should I pull up next to that car on the right but staying in the same lane? My son says I should do the latter. Which is correct?

Thanks,
Michele

To right if your turning right or behind if strait or left. Realy why make it hard on your self when trying to turn left or go strait. If your going to turn left you have to cross lanes of trafic if your on the far right. Where at most you have to cross in front of only one lane if your in the middle of the lane. If your going to turn right and take the right hand side of the lane your not going to hold trafic up even for a secound. Jusy need to watch and make sure you dont pull in front of a car behind when/if you merge back in to the main lane.

[MicheleC]

Nova,

I was neither turning right nor turning left, but going straight across the intersection.

Michele

[MicheleC]

Bekologist,

I'll have to go back and check what the speed limit is on this street (10th St West at Avenue K in Lancaster, California). There aren't too many streets around here that have speed limits lower than 45. Not that anyone in the Antelope Valley ever goes the speed limit.

Michele

[Bekologist]

I guess my biggest advice would be the roll-n-slow technique, Michele, and always thinking "Safety first."

other than that, its a total crap shoot.

Lots of good points in this thread about operating a bike and not a PC barcolounger,though - if you can see thru all the semantics :)

[MicheleC]

Hi Bekologist,

Is there a way to print out or save the entire thread? I've only been here a few weeks and haven't figured stuff like that out yet.

Thanks!
Michele

[Bekologist]

I honestly don't know, but your browser should support some print options for you.

[The Seldom Kill]

MicheleC

In the blue bar at the top of the thread there is a buttong called Thread Tools. Click on this and you will see a drop-down menu. From that menu click on Show Printable Version. This will give you a nice graphic free version to print out. You will still need to print each page using the print function from your browser.

Press the CTRL button at the same time as the P button.

[Brad M]

I blew past someone "taking the lane" behind a huge line of cars today. He was gonna be there for at least two lights and here I am busting to the front. Kinda felt guilty doing it, but then the satisfaction kicked in.

[noisebeam]

I don't mind making a stand when I need to. But if, for example, the rightmost through lane approaching the intersection is shareable and the lane on the other side of the intersection is shareable, then why should I get in line with the motorists just for the sake of making a stand? Don't forget, there's no right hook issues here, because it has already been established that there's a right turn only lane.
I line up no matter what the lane width to be consistent. There is no need to have all the cars I pass re-pass me even if it is a WOL. I also find that if I am stopped in the line of cars, it is more likely drivers coming from behind will choose a different line to wait in, avoiding even more times I need to share the WOL after the light turns green. There is no time gained by going to the front, it only makes you less noticable to drivers, increases the number of passes.

I will filter forward (but not all the way) if it is a WOL and it is the only way I can ensure I will make the next green light.

Al