I wanted to get peoples thoughts on falling down off the bike.
Personally, the best things I ever learned in this regard are judo and trampoline.
The first thing they teach you in Judo is how to fall and recommend tucking your head in and rolling on your shoulder letting your feet fly over your body. Control the fall.
Trampoline is wonderful because it teaches you how to manuver your body in mid air, how to accelerate, slow down, control your angle and landing. In trampoline, they taught to take a landing with as much of your body as possible to spread the shock.
In my years since this training, I personally have found it very valuable.
Once I missed the handlebars as I was going to grab the brakes and flew over. I not only managed to land fairly scratch free, but caught my new bicycle with my legs so it didn't get scratched.
Another time, I was standing against a low curb and a gust of wind pushed me off my balance point because I couldn't step back. Behind me was a 3 foot drop to concrete, but I managed to spin 90 degrees sideways and landed flat along the curb that tripped me. Nothing hurt but my dignity.
Obviously you can't avoid all damage. When riding at night and I collided with a tree that had fallen across the road at a height of 27" so my bike wheel was caught underneath without harm, but it pivoted me rapidly over the tree hurting my knee pretty badly.
But I have found knowing how to fall so that I keep my head while in the air and try to pick and choose my landing far better than just sort of freezing in panic and having that long moment of terror before slamming into something.
What a your thoughts on falling?
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
Riding street BMX, I fall.. a LOT.
Its generally when I'm coming off of something fakie.
Sometimes its pretty hard to get all the limbs tucked in though=[
I don't really worry about falling in traffic just because its something I've gotten used to.
(I too have taken martial arts, and played on a tramampoline as a kid)
I-Like-To-Bike
What a your thoughts on falling?
Don't do it. Stay off ice.
closetbiker
After being in Judo and rugby for 3 years, playing hockey for 10 years and football for 4, I can't believe the level of concern some show over the prospect that I might fall down when I'm on my bike.
Why is falling down such a concern when on a bike, but not such a concern in other sports?
Bekologist
first thing to know about falling (although some of us will be sure to disagree!)
is, always wear your helmet!
closetbiker
I'd never disagree that, if head protection is a valid concern, that helmets should be worn!
I just hate to see all those victims of head injury that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet, go without a helmet when driving a car, walking, getting into fights, or just being old ---
Falls were responsible for 80% of head injury hospitalizations in people aged 65 and older in Ontario... falls had a hospital admission rate among seniors aged 65 years and older at 154.8 per 10,000 population. All cyclist admissions to hospitals for all cycling accidents were 2.5 per 10,000
"We often associate head injuries with a younger male population, who are considered to be risk-takers, but the statistics from CIHI’s report and our experience indicate that head injuries are also important among seniors and women," explains Dr. Robert Summerfield, a neurologist with North York General Hospital.
Bekologist
I'd wear my helmet to the dance clubs if I could convince drunk chicks it was my new comb-over!
closetbiker
I'd wear my helmet to the dance clubs if I could convince drunk chicks it was my new comb-over!
...and you'd be safer for it!
Bekologist
Some of my thoughts on falling- I posted some rules of thumb a couple of months ago, but am too tired to search for them -
{inject personal anecdotes here} The last time I had a bike/vehicle collision, I was able to make concious decisions about where to pilot my bike but unable to make any decisions once my body was airbore off the hood.
The time before last when I was in a rear end swipe I could hear the car approaching and avoid a direct hit but still got tagged. It pulled me towards the car. By keeping my wits and pushing off the cab while steering with my outboard hand, i was able to avoid falling under the wheels. However, i was unable to control my fall once i rolled off the back of the cab.
In many bike crashes, particularily when they are caused by biker error, there is a usable time window where the biker can make decisions about how to hit the pavement.
Generally, keeping things tucked in, clipped in during sliding skids. Leading with the shoulder into a lot of impacts lets you duck and roll, and carom if still upright.
this is all so spatially out there. it's hard to describe how to fall 'better' on a bike. best to try to avoid at all costs.
kf5nd
Judo & Aikido falling works wonders
closetbiker
I guess I answered my own question about why there is fear of falling, but the larger question about why some things are selected to be feared while other things are ignored is not.
What is it about riding a bicycle that creates fear of falling when people fall all the time when not riding a bike?
Artkansas
What is it about riding a bicycle that creates fear of falling when people fall all the time when not riding a bike?
Automobiles?
San Rensho
I guess I answered my own question about why there is fear of falling, but the larger question about why some things are selected to be feared while other things are ignored is not.
What is it about riding a bicycle that creates fear of falling when people fall all the time when not riding a bike?
I think what the original post was about is not fear of falling, it is recognizing that falling is part of cycling and how to prepare for falling so that you get away with the least amount of injury.
One thing I learned from motorcycle racing, which is hard to do, is to go limp as you crash. If you stiffen up, eg, put out your arm stiff to brace yourself against concrete etc, you have a much better chance of an orthopedic injury. A drill that I was taught was to stand straight over a gymnastic mat and just go completely limp. If you do it right, you just crumble straight down into a heap, not sideways.
Another thing I've learned from experience is that if a car is coming straight at you or has crossed you path and there is no chance of getting away, JUMP IN THE AIR as high as you can and hopefully you'll get over the obstacle. "Laying the bike down" just gets you run over.
closetbiker
I think what the original post was about is not fear of falling, it is recognizing that falling is part of cycling and how to prepare for falling so that you get away with the least amount of injury.
..but falling is part of life. We all fall doing all kinds of things, not just riding a bike. Injuries from falling when riding a bike is tiny in comparrison to falling in doing almost anything else. People fall from tripping over their own feet way more often.
To the earlier reply about automobiles being a factor in fear of falling while on a bicycle, check out the injury rates of cyclists and motorists and you'll find that there is not a great deal of difference in death rates when automobiles collide together and bicycles collide with auotmobiles. In fact, in my province ,there is a smaller death rate when cyclists have collisions with cars than there is when 2 motorists collide.
CB HI
first thing to know about falling (although some of us will be sure to disagree!)
is, always wear your helmet!
I do disagree. The first thing is to not hit your head by controlling your fall and/or tucking your chin. The second thing is to control your fall so you don't break anything else. The third thing is to always wear your helmet. :)
Bekologist
If you can put that helmet on while attempting the first two, more power to you, CB HI
CB HI
If you can put that helmet on while attempting the first two, more power to you, CB HI
You must be one of those people who bangs their head against the wall, just for the fun of it! ;)
chipcom
You need to fall in a vehicular fashion. To accomplish this, you first need to adopt an alpha-dawg, steely-eyed gaze as your body is launched over the bars and through the air, so other vechicles and bystanders alike have no doubt about your intent to crash and burn like a Nascar Monte Carlo that just got clipped. When finally hitting the ground, tuck and roll is not an option, because this would not be the behavior of a vehicle and would indicate that you are merely a timid human. You can roll on impact, but only if you shed clothing, pocket change, ear wax, belly-button lint and bodily fluids in the process, scattering them all over the street to ensure the road must be closed until the mess is cleaned up, possibily requiring a Haz-mat team to be dispatched (eating hot chili prior to riding, if you suspect you may crash, will ensure a haz-mat response). Finally, you must NOT scream, shout, cry or wimper upon impact. You can only imitate the actual sound of a motor vehicle crash, so carrying a tape recorder with you with the appropriate tape inserted, is a must. Keep your wits about you so that you can start the tape a split second before you impact, and ensure the volume is loud enough to cover any involuntary sounds that might escape your soon-to-be toothless pie hole. I'm sorry I cannot give more details in this post, please refer to I.P. Daily's classic book "Vehicular Crashing for Dummies" for a more in-depth treatise on the subject.
Bekologist
I think chipcom has fully covered the ramifications of dominant/ submissive airborne positioning in a crash, and addresses the concerns of other drivers about flying political statements, by merely hinting on the subject in his erudite post above. Kudos, Chip!
cooker
After being in Judo and rugby for 3 years, playing hockey for 10 years and football for 4, I can't believe the level of concern some show over the prospect that I might fall down when I'm on my bike.
Why is falling down such a concern when on a bike, but not such a concern in other sports?
Higher height, no padding, and solid concrete.
closetbiker
Higher height, no padding, and solid concrete.
Gee, that sounds like a lot of surfaces many people fall on every day.
Fall off a deck, off a ladder, slip on ice, in the tub. These things are less injurious?
Bekologist
Do you guys play hockey on ladders over concrete with no padding or helmets up in Vancouver? That's pretty wacky.
I hear the Canadian Curling team is objecting about helmets because of the aerodynamics- YIKES!
closetbiker
Well, we do play hockey and climb ladders over concrete with no padding or helmets up in Vancouver and what's wacky about it, is that helmets are never worn when climbing ladders (more people get hurt from falling off of ladders than falling when riding bikes) and less people are afraid of falling from ladders than falling when riding bikes.
Bekologist
JU-DO : 2 people spar on mat.
VU-DO : Person spars with car.
DOO-DOO : if deep, the result of VU-DO.
VOODOO: Scorcery.
** got to go find my helmet, it's out to hit the clubs, looking to hook up with a geriatric babe suffering from failing eyesight and bad judgement**
John Wilke
What a your thoughts on falling?
Former pro cyclist Roger Young (remember him?) recommended to bundle up every winter with your buds, take the beater bike out on the grass, goof around and fall a few times. Get used to bouncing off others, sliding around, and falling down. Lots of clothes offer good padding against most bruising. I always liked to crash early in spring (like falling over in the grass) so I was more relaxed about falling. If you haven't fallen in a few years, the anxiety starts building up about how bad it's going to be, when you really need to be relaxed.
Just my .02
John Wilke
Milwaukee
(got my crash in this year! :) )
spandexwarrior
Aikido teaches falling, as stated before. It teaches not only rolling but "break falls" where you fall and slap the ground with your arm to lessen the impact. Proper falling technique which involves tucking the head should always be practiced. On a mat in a Judo or Aikido class is the place you definately should start practicing falling, but a book I read recommended finding a grassy area to practice falling with the bike. The dynamics of falling would be different when you have something between your legs (the bike of course- what else do you think I meant?). It is much worse if you are clipped into your pedals. Either you have to practice dismounting really quick or get used to falling with the bike. The book (The Art of Urban Cycling) said to find a soft grassy area to ride around in and just practice falling from the bike. I also heard from a different source that muscle in the back, shoulder and arm region acts as padding to some degree. I had a major accident breaking three ribs. I was travelling very fast through the air when this happened- not much time to even think. That is why practicing is so important. In Aikido, they say you have to practice until you've trained your reflexes so well, you can go on autopilot when a crisis erupts. This would also apply to the bike. Once you've stored in muscle memory a certain response you can react with lightning speed- thought is much slower than reflex- and the likelihood that you will have enough time to think when an accident happens is slim. Therefore, practicing falling is essential. This response could be rolling up in a ball- at least if you do that instead of bracing yourself with your arms, you won't snap your collar bone. Incidentally, a helmet saved my life in the accident I mentioned. I went over the handle bars head first, bounced on my helmeted head with my full body weight and then back flipped into the edge of a high curb and cracked my ribs. The funny thing was, that helmet worked great. My head did not hurt at all from the accident. The rest of me was entirely another matter. In that accident, I did not have time to think. And it just took seconds for me to fly about 15 feet.
Roody
There were some hilarious posts here, made my day.
Someday we should have a serious discussion of falling, as it is supposedly the leading cause of biking injuries by far. We hone in on auto accidents (fundamentally, that's what most discussions here are about, even the bike lane and VC debates) and totally ignore the biggest danger of cycling. What's this about?
I've had 8 or 9 falls, 6-7 on ice. The one serious one was on dry pavement. I almost died and I was off work for 5 months. I was only going about 18 mph.
John C. Ratliff
Spandexwarrior has some good points, but I think the martial arts techniques of falling need a bit of modification for bicycling. I too have had extensive falling training, in Judo (Korean Yudo), and in parachute landing fall techniques in the US Air Force. (Parachute landing falls take the forces sequentially, an the balls of the feet, the calf, the thigh, the deltoid of the back, and roll over without touching the head to the ground.)I've also experienced several serious falls off a bicycle.
Lets talk about the factors first. If we are falling from 6 feet, using the acceleration of gravity at 32 feet per second squared, we get a time of 0.43 second to hit the ground. That means we have less than half a second to "think" about what we are doing. That's not much time.
If we look at the forces using vector analysis, we have a horizontal velocity of 22 feet per second (at 15 mph), and a vertical component at 0.43 seconds of 13.76 feet per second (acceleration of gravity times 0.43 seconds). Since the horizontal squared times the vertical squared equals the resulting force vector squared of us hitting the ground, the resulting velocity is 25.94 ft per second.
Now, we can put that figure (the instantaneous velocity), times the mass involved, to get the force involved. If we hit flat, we take our full body weight. That would be (for me) 200 pounds times the 25.94 feet per second, or over 5000 foot-pounds per second (5189.74 to be exact). That ought to take the wind out of my sails.
If I hit in a roll, I take these forces segmentally, and don't completely come to a stop in the first hit. I'll still hit at the 25.94 feet per second, but this time I will only exert a portion of the force to the ground, and continue rolling. Let's say I am successful in only exerting my upper body, by rolling across my arm and shoulder, and so instead of exerting 200 pounds, I exert only 45 pounds against the ground. I have then exerted only 1/5th the force (1167.3 foot-pounds) against the ground. Ideally, the Judo technique is to NOT exert that force against joints which are held straight--this is the way to dislocate the shoulder, or pop an elbow. You want to hit against the soft tissues, on the outside of the wrist, the lower arm, the triceps, and rolling over onto the musculature of the back. Note, THE HEAD IS TUCKED, AND DOES NOT CONTACT THE GROUND. I'll talk about the head in a second.
In short, if you fall from a bicycle and hit flat, such as in a Judo fall (Aikido uses more rolling techniques), you will most likely do some damage, even if the slap does offset the forces slightly. If however, you roll, you can come from this fall without much more than skinned areas on the knees and elbows.
I know, as I did this off a bike at ~15 mph when I tried to outrun a school bus down a road, turned up a drive to a sidewalk, and couldn't make the turn at that speed, cut across some rocks, and hit the curb of the sidewalk, pushed off over the handlebars, rolled, and ended up upside down in a bush--with only skined knees, elbow, and the top of my feet (I was in college, and wearing only shorts and thongs at the time--before helmets).
In another fall, my bicycle went out from under me, and I hit flat (hands kept on the bars, thank goodness). I apparently did crack a rid on that fall, but only skinned other areas.
My son reached out on a similar fall, and took the full force (he weighed about 145 pounds at the time) of about 3700 foot pounds on his shoulder. The result, a dislocated shoulder. DON'T REACH OUT TO BREAK YOUR FALL--YOU'LL DISLOCATE YOUR SHOULDER.
Now, about the head. You can do everything right, and still get quite a head injury, which happened to me on my last accident. Bicycling is not like Judo or Aikido competitions, which take place on mats. We work in a real world of asphalt and concrete, steel and glass. A head hitting the ground with these forces cannot be expected not to be injured. All the falling technique in the world will not help if we end up conking our head against a curb. That means, ALWAYS WEAR A HELMET.
Falling techniques are great, and will help in bicycling situations. Fear of falling, which practice (see above) will help eliminate, will allow us to relax, tuck our head, and take the fall sequentially.
One other thing about falls from bicycles--you can do what is called in safety circles "engineering controls." You can ride a different bicycle. Recumbant bicycles lower the height of the fall, and thus the forces involved. Recumbant riders also fall feet-forward, not head-first. This, while it can cause more damage to the leg, will help keep the head from hitting the ground. I had a recent fall at ~ 14 mph on asphalt in a turn, which felt more like sliding into second base than a fall off a bicycle.
Enjoy, and Happy Thanksgiving. I'm giving thanks for surviving my serious fall several years ago, which would have been the end of me without a helmet.
John
Roody
John C., good explanation of the forces involved and falling techniques. I agree with your point that fear of falling makes it more difficult to plan the fall, and injury will probably be worse. I wonder if you (or anybody else) would comment on some ideas I have had?
First, as you said, practice falling is of great use. I first learned about falling in acting lessons, of all places, then learned more in self defense classes. I have always enjoyed outdorr activities in the winter, so lots of chances to practice falling. My job also requires restraining people, so lots of practice falls there too. If you practice enough, you will not have to plan your fall on a conscious level. The body is more likely to fall correctly "on its own", without conscious thought, if you have practiced enough. I would not want to practice falling off a bike without some kind of professional assistance, however.
I have read that the most common serious injuries in bicycle falls--almost the only ones, actually--involve fractures in the upper body, especially the ribs, wrist, forearm and clavicle (collarbone). Head and neck injuries occur also, but not as commonly. Soft tissue injuries can be serious too. After my fall, I had a hematoma the size of a muskmelon on my side. I agree with what you say about segmented falling, but on bikes I have usually fallen head first or shoulder first, so it's almost impossible not to put your arms out to protect the head. Raising your arms over your head and landing on your shoulder or armpit area might be a good way to go in these falls, followed by sliding or rolling forward.
Mars
..but falling is part of life. We all fall doing all kinds of things, not just riding a bike. Injuries from falling when riding a bike is tiny in comparrison to falling in doing almost anything else. People fall from tripping over their own feet way more often.
To the earlier reply about automobiles being a factor in fear of falling while on a bicycle, check out the injury rates of cyclists and motorists and you'll find that there is not a great deal of difference in death rates when automobiles collide together and bicycles collide with auotmobiles. In fact, in my province ,there is a smaller death rate when cyclists have collisions with cars than there is when 2 motorists collide.
That is really interesting. Can you give me a link to that info?
Mars
Lets talk about the factors first. If we are falling from 6 feet, using the acceleration of gravity at 32 feet per second squared, we get a time of 0.43 second to hit the ground. That means we have less than half a second to "think" about what we are doing. That's not much time.
If we look at the forces using vector analysis, we have a horizontal velocity of 22 feet per second (at 15 mph), and a vertical component at 0.43 seconds of 13.76 feet per second (acceleration of gravity times 0.43 seconds). Since the horizontal squared times the vertical squared equals the resulting force vector squared of us hitting the ground, the resulting velocity is 25.94 ft per second.
Now, we can put that figure (the instantaneous velocity), times the mass involved, to get the force involved. If we hit flat, we take our full body weight. That would be (for me) 200 pounds times the 25.94 feet per second, or over 5000 foot-pounds per second (5189.74 to be exact). That ought to take the wind out of my sales.
John
That was awesome! But doesn't the force in foot-pounds assume that the object you are striking is perpendicular to your direction of movement? Because the vector you calculated results in the person travelling at an angle to the ground, it seems to me that a lot of the force will be dissapated in horizontal motion across the ground after impact.
By the way, went out for a ride on snow and ice on my recumbent today with my new studded tires on. Was doing great until I misjudged turning radius and a curb and went down. Onto the curb. Hurts. Fortunately, I was travelling slowly and on a low recumbent, so just a bruised elbow to show for it.
John C. Ratliff
John C., good explanation of the forces involved and falling techniques. I agree with your point that fear of falling makes it more difficult to plan the fall, and injury will probably be worse. I wonder if you (or anybody else) would comment on some ideas I have had?
First, as you said, practice falling is of great use. I first learned about falling in acting lessons, of all places, then learned more in self defense classes. I have always enjoyed outdorr activities in the winter, so lots of chances to practice falling. My job also requires restraining people, so lots of practice falls there too. If you practice enough, you will not have to plan your fall on a conscious level. The body is more likely to fall correctly "on its own", without conscious thought, if you have practiced enough. I would not want to practice falling off a bike without some kind of professional assistance, however.
I have read that the most common serious injuries in bicycle falls--almost the only ones, actually--involve fractures in the upper body, especially the ribs, wrist, forearm and clavicle (collarbone). Head and neck injuries occur also, but not as commonly. Soft tissue injuries can be serious too. After my fall, I had a hematoma the size of a muskmelon on my side. I agree with what you say about segmented falling, but on bikes I have usually fallen head first or shoulder first, so it's almost impossible not to put your arms out to protect the head. Raising your arms over your head and landing on your shoulder or armpit area might be a good way to go in these falls, followed by sliding or rolling forward.
Roody,
Practice falling is great, but I would hesitate to simply take a bike onto the grass and fall down. Usually, like you experienced with acting, practice falling requires a more formal method of instruction. I would highly recommend Judo or Aikido classes as one way of receiving this instruction. These two disciplines in the martial arts emphasize falling techniques. In Judo, the forward roll is taught by beginning on the mat (use something soft), kneeling on one knee. Take the arm of the knee on the mat and place it, thumb toward your body, on the mat (little finger on the mat). This forms the surface upon which the roll will occur (the outside of the arm). Tuck your chin to your chest on the opposite side of the body (left side if the right arm is on the mat), then push off with your other leg. As you roll to your back, bring your bent leg over to complete the fall (left leg down, bent as a surface upon which you can stand up, and right foot coming down last). If you do that a number of times, you will get comfortable with the roll technique. Then switch to the onther side, and do that twenty times. After several hundred rolls at this height, under supervision of an instructor, you can begin doing it from a standing position, then after several hundred more, to a running position. In Judo instrutcion, I was able to get comfortable diving over a standing Korear instructor (a bit shorter than am I--I learned in the USAF in Korea). This is only the forward roll. There is also a rear roll, and side rolls, each of which are a bit different. There are books that can be bought about this too:
Just speculating, but the fractures of the upper body could be related to these conditions:
Fracture Site: Reason
Wrist/lower arm/elbow: Reaching out, trying to catch yourself
Dislocated shoulder: Same as above
Clavical (collar bone): Blow to the outside of the clavical
rib: Flat fall an hard surface, hitting a curb or car.
Soft tissue injuries can be caused by blunt trauma to the soft tissue. What can cause that? Again, a car or curb is a main cause, but in my case, it was my own bicycle. The top tube of the bicycle can cause some very bad injuries. That is why, in sizing the bicycle, it is important to have good clearance between the top tube and the groin region of the cyclist. There have been severe injuries to the groin area of bicyclists (especially children--adults may buy an over sized bicycle for a child to "grow into," and thereby contribute to this kind of severe injury to the groin's soft tissues). But mine happened on a correctly-sized bicycle. I was T-boned by an SUV, and bailed out, pushed off the handle bars, and went down on the ground feet first. My bicycle got caught between the ground and the back of my left thigh, and I received a severe bruise about 8 inches in diameter from that accident. But I successfully avoided further contact with the SUV.
As mentioned above about putting your arms out in front of you (in discussing the roll), it is important how you put your hands out. You should lead with one arm, and place it onto the ground on the outside of that hand (hopefully, somewhat protect by bicycling gloves. Then roll along the outside axis of the whole arm, sequentially, without having the hand take the full force. In other words, don't try to catch your fall with your hands, but use your hand (dominant) as an axis for initiating the roll. Tuck your chin, and let your body relax and follow your arm. The act of tucking will initiate the roll, and then if you simply become a ball, you will roll along until you stop. This will absorb the forces in a manner your body can handle much better than if you try to catch yourself.
John
John C. Ratliff
That was awesome! But doesn't the force in foot-pounds assume that the object you are striking is perpendicular to your direction of movement? Because the vector you calculated results in the person travelling at an angle to the ground, it seems to me that a lot of the force will be dissapated in horizontal motion across the ground after impact...
Mars,
Yes, you are potentially correct that some of those forces would not be realized, but it depends...upon where you fall. If you hit the side of a parked car, you will receive all the forces. If you hit the ground, probably some of the potential forces will not be realized because you will continue along the ground. If you are climbing, and hit ground that is angled upward (my case when I broke my rib), then all the forces will be applied upon impact. My example was, by necessity, a simplified version of what could happen. Each accident is going to be different, but each will have the same potential depending upon height above the ground and velosity. Also, the surface will be a determining factor, as I assumed that all the force would be distributed along the body.
A calculation of the available body surface area, and the resulting force per square inch, is revealing. For instance if we assume a 4 square foot area along the body would absorb the impact, that's 576 square inches of area (144 inches squared = 1 foot squared, times 4), then we have about 5000 foot-pounds along 576 square inches, or 8.7 foot-pounds per square inch exerted on the body. But if it is rocks that are sharp, then we have only about 10 square inches receiving all that force, which is about 500 foot-pounds per square inch.
Now, if we assume that the person rolls, and absorbs this impact sequentially, over a longer time period, these forces are dramatically reduced. Let's say that the 5000 pounds of force is dissipated over two seconds, instead of instantaniously, and only 20% is absorbed by the arm (at 1 square foot, 144 inches squared). That's about 7 foot-pounds per square inch exerted against the arm. The next part of the body would receive more of the force, until the force had been dissipated totally. If you are really good, then the arm only receives a very small amount of the force, less than 10% is my guess, and that would be about 3.5 foot-pounds per square inch. So it is pretty easy to demonstrate the advisablity of learning good fall techniques mathematically.
Simply noting that it's much better to hit a flat, smooth (and hopefully soft) surface than a very rough, angular surface. Ever seen broken rocks used in ditches alongside a road? I shutter thinking of falling into that area along one of my routes. But two weeks ago I watched a bicyclist misjudge a turn, clip a curb, and end up falling when the front wheel skidded on the curb. He hit...grass beside the road, and got up without much injury at all. If possible, pick your surfaces to fall against!
John
thebankman
I was flung thirty to fourty feet in june when a car hit me off my motorcycle. I was going under 25mph, a speed regularly reached by bicyclists on flat surfaces like the one I was at. I closed my eyes immediately upon getting hit on my leg (it was broken) and when I landed, I guess years of rollerblading biking and skateboarding paid off as I instinctively rolled for a few feet even with my eyes closed and came to rest. The shoulder that made first contact was cracked but to me that's pretty minor considering other bones could have been broken on impact.
Not wearing a helmet is just retarded. i had a full face helmet on and it had a big scratch along the side where I impacted. I don't want to think how bad it would have been on a bicycle, in a bicycle specific helmet.
Closetbiker, I agree that people fall all the time and get hurt. But people are generally not travelling 20 miles an hour when they're walking and fall, that's the reason helmets are crucial for two wheeled pursuits. Even if you're not expecting it, you get fudged.
OOops I forgot to mention some advice. Definitely stay relaxed yet alert at all times, being relaxed definitely helps you to not only avoid the fall altogether but may help to loosen you up for the impact and hopefully a nice tuck n roll. Also practicing falls in a more controlled setting seems a good idea but eventually you'll fall and it'll be much different. I endo'd my bike ten years ago and landed flat on my back on dirt, no damage, no pain, no scratches on the helmet, I wasn't expecting to fall and just went with it when it happened. The young can take falls a lot easier I suppose.
Alan
Roody
In my most serious fall, I had no warning. I was riding strong at night one second, the next second I was sliding across the pavement. My doctor said that a blood pressure medicine could have caused this fall, so pay attention to drugs and other substances as a cause of falls. When falling on ice or wiping out on loose gravel, you usually know it's coming some time before you fall. Often you can put one foot down and form a tripod with that foot and the two bike wheels, and channel the fall into a more upright sliding skid, finally falling only after you have slowed down a lot. I put my saddle a little lower when I know it's going to be slick.
The concensus here seems to be that you should relax, stay alert, but perhaps not overthink the fall.
I had two ironic experiences in the last couple days. Yesterday, I decided to walk instead of ride over ice to Thanksgiving dinner. Of course I fell twice while walking. Today I rode to work on real ice for the first time since last spring. I was very proud that I didn't fall on the ice at all. I sped up when I hit the cleared parking lot at work. That's when I hit a pile of rock salt and almost wiped out on it! Sometimes you can't win! :)
Bekologist
In my crash this summer when I broke my hip, I estimate a combined speed at impact of about 45 MPH. I saw the Jeep Cherokee and was able to make a conscious steering decision that avoided going under the front, or flailing into the passenger compartment, by aiming straight for the front quarter panel. My thoughts prior to impact were "Here we go again..."
I smashed the guys windshield with my head. I went airborne off the vehicle. I was unable to control my trajectory or make choices about a politically correct vector statement or find the right moment to shoulder tuck. I also was not considering at that moment how bicycling is a sport considered less dangerous than cleaning out the gutters.
My face bled, my head did not. And my hip broke in the process.
Roody
In my crash this summer when I broke my hip, I estimate a combined speed at impact of about 45 MPH. I saw the Jeep Cherokee and was able to make a conscious steering decision that avoided going under the front, or flailing into the passenger compartment, by aiming straight for the front quarter panel. My thoughts prior to impact were "Here we go again..."
I smashed the guys windshield with my head. I went airborne off the vehicle. I was unable to control my trajectory or make choices about a politically correct vector statement or find the right moment to shoulder tuck. I also was not considering at that moment how bicycling is a sport considered less dangerous than cleaning out the gutters.
My face bled, my head did not. And my hip broke in the process.
Yes, most fractures of the lower extremities occur in auto crashes, rather than simple one-bike falls. Same with head injuries, I guess. And fatalities, of course.
Bekologist
This is just about falling, like when your riding and hit leaves, or ice??
Jeeze, go out and crash on the dam grass already like John Wilke suggests, don't be a bunch of wussies!!
I recommend getting drunk, and steer your bike into a few curbs on the way home. THAT'LL help ya learn your falling skills. Or, bring your bike to judo.
closetbiker
That is really interesting. Can you give me a link to that info?
For the info about death rates you can go to ICBC.com and look under library, then research, then traffic collision statistics. Pick a year. The reports break down traffic reports into auto, pedestrian, motorcycles bicycles etc.
There are about 42 to 45,000 traffic collisions between auto each year resulting in about 400 deaths, about 1700 collisions between pedestrians and autos each year usually resulting in about 50 deaths a year, and about 900 collisions between cars and bikes a year resulting in about 5 deaths a year.
Seems to me just walking around is much more deadly than riding a bike. (but really, these are just the results of poor behaviour that leads to collisions and doesn't seem to be a result of type of transportation; if you're the type to do something dumb, you'll do it on foot, in a car or on a bike)
* for info about falling and the general public, check out the Canadian Health Information Institute *
John C. Ratliff
...if you're the type to do something dumb, you'll do it on foot, in a car or on a bike)
Or drunk...good observations though.
John
Brian Ratliff
That was awesome! But doesn't the force in foot-pounds assume that the object you are striking is perpendicular to your direction of movement? Because the vector you calculated results in the person travelling at an angle to the ground, it seems to me that a lot of the force will be dissapated in horizontal motion across the ground after impact.
If you land flat (not rolling), or on an outstreached arm, you will still recieve every ounce of that force from the 6 foot fall. Even if you are moving at 15 mph, you are still falling to the ground from 6 feet in the air. That means that your body will absorb, in one way or another, a 6 foot fall -- in addition to any forward momentum. In other words, the vector resulting from forward motion is added to the downward vector, resulting in a much larger angular vector. This is why a zero mph fall can still be dangerous.
However, if one rolls when they fall, then the force is distributed around the body and dissipated in angular deceleration (as opposed to linear), and so tends not to hurt as much.
lyledriver
Wow.. This thread is really making me want to hit the skatepark this morning.
Artkansas
If you land flat (not rolling), or on an outstreached arm, you will still recieve every ounce of that force from the 6 foot fall. Even if you are moving at 15 mph, you are still falling to the ground from 6 feet in the air.
Currently, my most likely-to-fall spot is a heavily trafficed 7.4 degree hill where I do 30-35 just coasting. I imagine that would change the dynamics quite a bit.
mechBgon
My last two falls were (1) a rear-wheel slipout on ice at maybe 10mph/15kph, and (2) having my touring bike T-boned at the rear wheel by an unobservant motorist the summer before that, at about 30mph/50kph. Reaction and planning were out of the question. The first decision that was within my power to deliberately make was what to do after I'd come to a halt, and that was naturally to get out of harms' way before I was hit by a car.
I don't think the "6-foot fall" is really accurate, by the way. That implies that my whole body mass fell from a height of six feet, but that isn't a realistic portrayal of a cyclist falling. I don't ride along with my whole body laying horizontally six feet off the ground, not very often anyways ;)
closetbiker
I almost forgot that I took a "tumbling" class as well where we learned how to fall and tumble in gymnastics.
All this learning how to fall is good, but I have to wonder how much good it does when an unexpected and sudden collision occurs.
In 2 of my collisions, I had less than a second to know it was coming and was on the ground before I knew what happened. I saw the problem, then I was on the ground. No time to react, move, tuck or roll. Just, BOOM. My first instinct was to look where I was so I could see if a car was going to run over me and then try to get out of the way to avoid one that might come along.
John C. Ratliff
...I don't think the "6-foot fall" is really accurate, by the way. That implies that my whole body mass fell from a height of six feet, but that isn't a realistic portrayal of a cyclist falling. I don't ride along with my whole body laying horizontally six feet off the ground, not very often anyways ;)
The six foot figure was for going over the handlebars forward. I agree that falling from the bicycle to the side would be different. But going over the handlebars, you'd be surprised how high you can get. One of my falls involved hitting an unexpected curb at about 18 mph. I was in the air for more than 15 feet, and the bike stayed essentially where it hit the curb. That was my first new wheel and fork on my Trek 1420.
John
mechBgon
The six foot figure was for going over the handlebars forward. I agree that falling from the bicycle to the side would be different. But going over the handlebars, you'd be surprised how high you can get. One of my falls involved hitting an unexpected curb at about 18 mph. I was in the air for more than 15 feet, and the bike stayed essentially where it hit the curb. That was my first new wheel and fork on my Trek 1420.
JohnOk, I see now :) Recollecting my first mountain-bike crash, I think I did get my six feet of altitude that time! :lol:
Roody
The six foot figure was for going over the handlebars forward. I agree that falling from the bicycle to the side would be different. But going over the handlebars, you'd be surprised how high you can get. One of my falls involved hitting an unexpected curb at about 18 mph. I was in the air for more than 15 feet, and the bike stayed essentially where it hit the curb. That was my first new wheel and fork on my Trek 1420.
John
Even in a sideways fall, the part that gets hurt falls the whole 6 feet. In standing falls, the "buckling" of the knees, hips, and spine certainly absorbs or distributes some of the force of the fall. Falling off a bike, the upper body and head often hit the ground first and take the brunt of it. Also, I think we need to consider falls and crashes separately. Single-bike falls are often caused by bad surface, debris, obstructions, mechanical problems, or cyclist error. Sometimes, as in my fall, the cause is unknown. There is, in my estimation, more likely to be time to plan the fall in a single-bike fall than in a car-bike collision.
Markok765
I never actually fall. I hit the disc brakes and drift/slide a bit.