Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Stopping!

Skipping, Skidding, backpedaling... the three ways of stopping.
Seeing as I'm not around any other fixed gear riders it's hard for me to know what other people do to stop. Backpedaling seems like the all around best way to stop, skipping and skidding seem more showy than anything, but does anyone use them regularly as a way to come to a stop?

I'm riding brakeless right now and it's been a bit extreme at times. I've been riding for about a week and it's been awesome and exhilerating, and everything it's talked up to be, but I've had some pretty scarry moments at stop signs and intersections so far. Yes, riding brakeless is stupid, but I have yet to get around to buying myself a front brake. It hasn't been that bad, but the day I was flying down a busy road when the light changed, and I backpedaled until I realized I wasn't stopping fast enough, and then proceeded to skid a few feet into the intersection, was a bit much for me... There were some old people on the intersecting lane that gave me quite a look. I'm still pretty aprehensive when I come to stop signs and intersections, because I'm aware that I probably wouldn't be able to stop quickly enough, were I suprised.

It's been better since I got some clip in pedals. They really give a lot more stopping power and have made a big difference. Another thing I've noticed is that shifting my weight back over the seat, after throwing myself forward to skid, helps me to slow down a lot. But I still am aware that the 6ish feet it could take me to get my feet in the right position to skid is a bit much when I need to respond quickly.

Another stupid thing that happened was that I was on a bike path, came to a T intersection and couldn't slow down enough to make the turn without running into the underbrush off the path. It was rather embarassing.. For some reason I froze up, and I realize now that slowing down while turning is something to get used to before you do it. It feels different than just slowing down in a straight line.

So, all things stopping is the agenda. I'd like to hear what people have to say.

Mmm, brakes.

I find skip skidding to be pretty effective actually. I also run a front brake for emergencies and when I'm tired (90% of the time, lol)

Yeah, I'm going to say brakes too. It doesn't sound like you have nearly enough experience on your bike to be riding brakeless. Especially the part about 6 feet to get your feet in the right position - it should be instinctual, and at the moment you want to stop. If you're not at that point in your riding, don't ride brakeless.

There's also the 'It's all it's talked up to be' comment - yeah, brakeless makes you look further ahead, anticipate more, whatever. It's still something that you need to work into (yeah, some people go right to it - you don't sound like one of them.) If you can't even navigate a turn on a bike path, then you SHOULD NOT AT ALL be riding brakeless...

Sorry to say it, but somebody had to. Ride with a brake and don't use it. Wait awhile, get used to it, then maybe you can up the ante...

There's also the 'It's all it's talked up to be' comment - yeah, brakeless makes you look further ahead, anticipate more, whatever. It's still something that you need to work into (yeah, some people go right to it - you don't sound like one of them.) If you can't even navigate a turn on a bike path, then you SHOULD NOT AT ALL be riding brakeless...
Actually, I was regarding fixed gear in general with that statement, but it's all good.

My understanding was you had to have one of your pedals facing backwards (coming up from the very bottom of their arc) in order to skid... are you saying you can skid with the pedals in any position?

And yes, admittedly I need a front brake. But I'm wearing a helmet, which makes up for at least some of my stupidity.

you may find a lower ratio will help you stop easier.
otherwise install a brake already, even if you dont use it very often its very useful.

even if you are ****ing hercules, you probably aren't going to be able to stop using backpedaling as fast as you can by doing intelligent skipping, and, in the worst cases, hockey stop skidding. you really need to have those techniques under control before you ride brakeless, even if 98% of the time you are able to use backpedaling to slow yourself down safely. that said, i do a series of skips for most of the quicker stopping that i need to do. it helps to be able to skid with either foot forward so that you are at most 1/2 a crank revolution away from being able to "brake."

edit: big ups columbus.

i rode brakeless for the week in between receiving my mark v and gettin a front brake. i ended up making a lot of quick right turns. now that i have my front brake, i don't worry about slowing down for an intersection well before i get to it. that said, i very very rarely use my front brake, but having it has allowed me the peace of mind to ride more "aggressively" than i did brakeless. as far as i'm concerned it's an advanced skill, and there's no shame in riding with a brake until one gets to the point where they can ride brakeless safely.

I've never been forced to do the ole power slide, as I really prepare for stops far in advance. Even if I feel the light's going to be green for me to bomb through, it's always good to be prepared if a) the light magically turns, b) the person in the turn lane facing you inevitably turns in front of you, c) a person coming up to the inetersection from the side faux stops at the light and turns right into you, or d) something random happens. The lesson is to always be prepared by slowing down at intersections.

yeah riding brakeless means you need to know you're going to stop 15 feet before you know you're going to stop.

skipping, for me, is the best method of quick stopping. skipping each time a foots up front > leg resistance (for me)

and yeah, you should really really really really be 110% comfortable with your braking and bike handling skills before you go brakeless, if not you're just endangering yourself and others

It's been better since I got some clip in pedals. They really give a lot more stopping power and have made a big difference.

im assuming you mean you got clipless pedals. you didn't have enough money to buy a brake, but you had enough for clipless/+shoes. didn't you spend like over 500 dollars already. brakes aren't that expensive, you can get a tektro front brake for under 20 bucks or cheaper on ebay. and a tektro inline brake for less than 20 bucks as well. that's no excuse. noobies shouldn't ride brakeless, ever!

IT'S BETTER TO HAVE A GUN AND NOT NEED IT, THAN TO NEED A GUN AND NOT HAVE ONE!

Skipping, Skidding, backpedaling... the three ways of stopping.
Seeing as I'm not around any other fixed gear riders it's hard for me to know what other people do to stop. Backpedaling seems like the all around best way to stop, skipping and skidding seem more showy than anything, but does anyone use them regularly as a way to come to a stop?

Seeing as you aren't around other fixed gear riders, why try to be so "cool" ? LIke everyone else says, use a brake until you know how to stop. Hell, keep using a brake... no point having style points in a fixed gear vaccum.

Front brake is the most effective stopping method there is. I never rode brakeless because 1) I was using a fixed free setup so I could ride trails and more importantly 2) personally I felt it was stupid to ride without brakes. Never understand the arguements against them.

Front brake is the most effective stopping method there is. I never rode brakeless because 1) I was using a fixed free setup so I could ride trails and more importantly 2) personally I felt it was stupid to ride without brakes. Never understand the arguements against them.

i second that, there is no reason to ride brakeless. riding brakless encourages less experience riders to get themselves killed. there are sooo many things that can happen that would leave you totaly f*cked unless you have a brake, for example: you get a rear flat, your chain brakes, wheel slides off, the chain jumps off, cog strips off, tubular slides off, rear spoke brakes, one of your cranks falls off or brakes off, your pedal brakes off (happened on another thread), your toe clips brake off (happened on another thread). all these reasons and more are why you need a front brake as a primary or secondary brake

plus if you run a brake you can run a super high gear on the street (if that's what your into). you wouldn't be able to do that brakeless cause it's super ******** hard to stop on a high gear

my crank broke in the other thread. i ride brakeless. it wasn't soooo bad, but it wasn't fun either. i'm getting a lot more comfortable with it, and i know all my limitations... basically, no stupid *****.

just be smart about it and know your limitations. if you aren't comfortable, even a little, BRAKE IT. if you're comfy, it's your decision.

it is prolly safest just to walk your bike, but make sure you are on the opposite side of the drivetrain and look both ways before crossing roads. good luck!

I rode with brakes (both front and back, because I'm a huge dork) for a full year before I switched to brakeless, and I only did that because my LBS didn't have a brake that fit my new frame and I didn't want to wait to ride. It was dicey for the first week, and then I got a handle on it and it's been fine ever since. I'm definitely grateful for the year of practice but I didn't actually learn any useful stopping skills until I went fully brakeless. Maybe it's a psychological thing.

But to actually answer your question, you should learn to skip from any pedal position. This will allow you to be in skidding position very quickly. Also learn to kick your back wheel around so you can skid around corners or do the power skid, or just to look fancy.

im assuming you mean you got clipless pedals.
I bought some cage pedals... they are called clips, right?


Alright, so it sounds like most people are using skipping to slow down quickly. I haven't been doing so much skipping because it didn't seem as effective to me, but I'll have to learn. Everyone keeps mentioning that you should be able to have "either foot forward" when you skip... so I'm wondering if that means you guys are focusing on when your pedal is forward, as opposed to back. Does that means you're using your forward leg (assuming you're clipped in somehow) to stop when you're skipping? because I've been focusing on getting my back leg in position.

Also, when I'm moving slowly and trying to do a skip, there's a certain 'sweet spot' where if I resit the pedal coming up it feels like it naturally wants to pop up under me. So is that the skipping sweet spot, or are you somehow focusing on your front legs?


Critical Mass, in columbus, is tonight. I'm planning on having a front brake before then, btw. I've been planning to get one all along, but you guys have kind of shocked me into doing it quickly.
Speaking of the break, I'm riding drops, but I prefer to be up on top, and I was thinking that it wouldn't make sense for me to have a brake on the drop if I wouldn't be skipping, skidding in that position anyhow. So what if I put a bmx style lever close to the headset so that I could grab it while in an upright position? It makes more sense to me, I just don't know if that's what other riders do.

cage pedals with clips+straps are properly called a "clipped setup" (or something like that). clipless means that you use shoes with cleats that interface with special pedals.

anyhow, the point in saying "either foot forward," isn't to focus on what foot does the work in skipping/skidding (both should be.. otherwise you'll likely have problems with fishtailing and such), it is to say that you can skid regardless of whether a given foot is forward-facing or rear-facing. so, if you can skid with either foot forward, you can do it when your right foot is forward and left is back AND when your left foot is forward and right is back.

to come back to my clarification in the parenthetical above, if you are skidding in an ideal way, both forward and rear are contributing equally to the skid/skip. that is to say that you are both pulling up with the front foot and stomping with the rear with equal force. in reality, people tend to favor one or the other. some, like me, use pulling on the front more. others -- probably most -- find that mashing the rear makes the wheel lock more easily. when you favor one foot (and, consequently, one side of the bike), your skids will tend to be less straight. or, if they are straight, you usually have to adjust your body to counteract the pull to one side.

just as the dominant foot varies from person to person, the position in which one actually skids can vary as well. some people do their skids in a 3 o'clock, 9 o'clock position (think of the crank arms as being hands on a clock), others more like a 2o'clock, 8o'clock... i've seen people who even skid with one foot at 12-1o'clock. the "sweet spot" can depend a lot on your gear ratio, how tight your clips/straps are, your body weight, leg strength, etc. hell, it can even depend on whether or not you are doing a skid with your balls up against the stem (which will tend to put your feet at more extreme positions "on the clock") or whether you are doing a seated skid.

lastly, with your brakes. many people use cross or bmx style levers on the tops of the bars for the very reason that you articulate. that sholud be no problem at all. if you ride on the tops more, it makes sense to have a brake where you can reach it.

Learn to pitch your bike sideways when skidding. Once mastered you can do those hockey stop style skids, which are also very effective to stop. Another effective way to stop is standing on your rear wheel. Put your foot where your rear brake caliper would be and stand up.

I have a Salsa cyclocross lever (which looks like a small BMX style lever) right next to my stem. It has a nice minimalist look and is really handy when I need it.

I'm kinda worried that you're trying to win a Darwin award by getting yourself taken out of the gene pool. Do you really think that if you can't stop and find yourself out in the middle of a busy intersection, a puny piece of styrofoam is going to save you? Even if it could protect your skull when it gets run over by a truck (which it can't), it won't keep you from dying from internal injuries.

You can't stop as quickly by skidding as you can with a front brake. Period. But if you want that extra thrill and bonus style points for riding brakeless, then drop everything else and practice, practice, practice, your skidding. Now. Before it is too late.

I use a brake so I can stop quickly or scrub speed without much effort.
I need a brake because I constantly ride with groups of roadies.

I built my fixed gear. And its never had a brake. The reason I ride it is becuse it has no brakes and the close calls are the bonus.

I built my fixed gear. And its never had a brake. The reason I ride it is becuse it has no brakes and the close calls are the bonus.

Thanks for explaining the other side.... :D

Also, how the hell are you people using cross levers withour also using drop levers?

Also, how the hell are you people using cross levers withour also using drop levers?Like this....

they work fine by themselves. see other threads (many) for more info.

Weird, I thought they relied on a drop lever for tension.

Negative.

Don't over ride your abilities.

I have nothing to add to this except to comment on Shants' nice paragraphs. ;)

In the two alleycats I've been in most of the bikes are brakeless fixies. I've also noticed that many of the brakeless riders ride "on the edge" and some of them are just plain dangerous. Makes my skin crawl just watching them. No wonder I suck so bad at alleycats (I want to finish in one piece)!

The Fixer,

I like your sig. Fun to read! I'm assuming those are all your bikes?

The biggest reason I run a brake is the Backhoe that almost ran me over last time I disconnected it.

Backhoes don't have turn signals. They are only kinda street legal, but bein' as how it was a city vehicle, they pretty much do whatever they want. He made a rolling right on red without really stopping at the light. I turned inside his turn and was sandwiched between the curb and the backhoe. The driver saw me right about then and slammed on the brakes, which left the bucket bouncing about a foot from my face.

The second reason is little children who run out in the street after their ball, or little old ladies that walk out into traffic or all the other various reasons that cars are required by law to have brakes.


Seriously kids, how would you feel if someone told you that they didn't need brakes on their car? Ever drive stick? You can control speed quite well without using your brakes. You can even stall your car for emergency stops, isn't that good enough?

Real men drive without 'em, don't be a chump!

yeah but cars are evil

yeah but cars are evil


Oh yeah, but, uhh..
...um...
...

:bday:

wheres the birthday pie?

this needs to be archived somehow... amazing last three posts. close thread.

Alright, well I went down to the bike shop and got myself a front brake for about 20 bucks. It's made riding much more fun already, I can think less about stopping and enjoy riding more. I've also been doing more skipping lately, and I'm seeing how that's an effective way of stopping.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/TheNathanator/AustroDaimler014best.jpg
It was a righthanded brake and I didn't feelt like putting it upside down on the left... plus I may as well put it on the right seeing as my right hand is my dominant hand, and I can.