Road Bike Racing - Heras B sample deemed positive!

He's done.

Velonews article (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/9203.0.html)

Mark

I don't know what's more dissapointing the fact that he cheated or that "He'll fight to the end" to prove his innocence. I wish these guys would just admit that doping is part and parcel of the professional peleton when they get caught take their punishment. If they were smart they'd bank the money from those huge contracts and then live comfortably after they are busted.

Agreed. I wonder if the team doctor feels the heat for having ruined a very successful money making scheme. Ferrari seems to be wildly popular I'm assuming because he's the best at devising non-detectable administration programs. Sad.

Mark

Agreed. I wonder if the team doctor feels the heat for having ruined a very successful money making scheme. Ferrari seems to be wildly popular I'm assuming because he's the best at devising non-detectable administration programs. Sad.

Mark

The doc thing is really the key. If the UCI and WADA want to really get serious yank the license of any team who's doc can be proved to help these guys. When a team has it's entire livelyhood at stake they may be more reluctant to facilatate the cheating, and yes I believe that this is done with the teams full knowlage. Most of these cyclists come from pretty simple backgrounds I find it difficult at best to believe that they are doping themselves. To micro dose EPO isn't something some farmboy just picks up, he's got to have some professional help.

Duped by the dope......................................... ;)

Dummy. Both A and B samples positive...

Had such mad climbing skillz he didn't need that crap: :rolleyes:

Because if everyone dopes, there are no alternatives: you either retire or you dope --Mauro Salizzoni

Wow. That's really sad. I have to admit I was rooting for Menchov and was bummed when he was outgunned by Heras and squad. This news still sucks, though.

WHAT THE HECK!

Thats BS. I can not believe it. I have a feeling all the lab rats and UCI big guys are jealous of all these cyclist, and how they are all in shape and mad good, and how they are all old fat and retired.

Now thats just my two cents...

Oh well...life goes on.

Dummy. Both A and B samples positive...

Had such mad climbing skillz he didn't need that crap: :rolleyes:


http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/9203.0.html

Another one bites the dust...

Now I have to explain again to all my non cycling friends that not every cyclist uses drugs. Dammit!!

Because if everyone dopes, there are no alternatives: you either retire or you dope --Mauro Salizzoni

A simple sentence, but one that basically defines the issue. I don't condone cheating (who does), but when you're talking about something like cycling, that requires extraordinary skill, passion, and extreme dedication, and your choices are "retire or dope", retiring, or quittting, isn't really a realistic option. Especially when there isn't a test that seems able to catch the dopers.

I knew some college football players in the 80's who were skilled enough to play in the NFL but wouldn't take steroids, and even though they made the long term right choice, to this day they are haunted by "what if". What seems like an easy decision, cheat or not, while sitting on the outside, gets a lot more complicated when you're in it.

I still have my doubts about this test. There has been no false positive study, even though it has been proven that it is possible to get a false positive. I also question any test that is based on the skill of the lab guy. My understanding is that they take the urine sample and run it through various machinations and then look at it and decide if they see EPO in the sample. Not exactly a test where a computer spits out a definite yes or no.

I am waiting for the cyclists union to refuse to ride in any race that uses this test, especially in light of all the "leaks" of test results from "A" samples. I thought this was all supposed to be secret until the "B" sample was tested? The cyclists need to put their proverbial foot down and demand that the "leaks" get plugged. Riders careers and reputations are being ruined, so the doping police should be made to prove their method is accurate and reliable.

I'll ask the biochemists in the lab next to mine about testing for epo. I'd say they'd done research with epo but if I did I'd have to kill you and then kill myself.

Usually they are looking for gas chromatography signatures and/or degradation products. They also run mass spectrometry and some hplc(high performance liquid chromatography) on these samples. Extremely accurate if everything's calibrated correctly.

Things can still go wrong in the testing lab, though. I'd think that where drug testing is concerned, these people would really know their ***** and there'd be checking and double checking across the line. After all, it's somebody's career on the line. I've gotten spectra back from QC and said, "WTF?! This ain't right!" and proceed to educate the analytical chemists on the proper way to obtain, prepare, and analyze my samples.

I think if someone tests positive on their "A" sample, they should be allowed to have qualified chemists observe the testing lab during the "B" testing.

Hello,


I am merging the current thread with another thread on this topic.

OK back open, sorry I was having trouble merging the two threads.


Thank you!

Hi565
Mod

Yes, I'm going to try out for Liberty Seguros now! I'm sure Vino could use someone of my caliber as a super domestique in next years TDF!

I'm not going to jump in the he's innocent or he's lying game, but I seriously think that EPO testing is seriously flawed and there needs to be a more accurate test.

In all honesty though, everyone's got some secret to hide (everyone as in everyone in the world). whether its doping, cheating, stealing, lying, no one's clean

I'm not going to jump in the he's innocent or he's lying game, but I seriously think that EPO testing is seriously flawed and there needs to be a more accurate test.

In all honesty though, everyone's got some secret to hide (everyone as in everyone in the world). whether its doping, cheating, stealing, lying, no one's clean

EPO testing is very accurate and although it needs improvement, look to the analysis course to see how they actually test for it. Cyclingnews has a good two part article on it.

Yeah everyone has secrets but you don't get banned from cycling for cheating on a spouse.

"Disappointed!" - A Fish Called Wanda

Ziggurat, how about a "pusted!" image?

This is sad in more ways than one. I'm curious.... if the EPO test is so accurate and that everyone is doping (says Mauro Salizzoni) how come riders aren't getting busted left, right & center. Is it truely everyone or just a few under pressure to perform and willing to take the chance?

Perhaps he upped the dosage to compensate for the injuries he sustained during the Vuelta? Just an idea. Remember when Sammy Sosa got off to a slow start a couple seasons ago, and he corked his bat? :rolleyes:

So... why are Lance's results different?
Seriously - I didn't ask a rhetorical..

Ziggurat, how about a "pusted!" image?

BUSTED!
http://images.velonews.com/images/int/9203.13285.t.jpg

Are there tricks for masking EPO use, like administering very small doses at certain intervals or other things like that? What is the sensitivity in ppm or whatever of these tests they use to look for EPO.

I've heard it said that certain things, like cranberry juice, can mask appearance of illegal substances (ie pot) before a drug test. Makes me wonder if there's something that these people can or do take to avoid detection?

I'm really shocked about the Heras thing. I mean if it's that easy to detect EPO why would they take a chance and risk their careers? Sure, if they win the payoff is pretty big, but getting fired and banned for a few years doesn't sound that great.

Yes there are way's to 'beat' the system and micro dosing is the way 'dejure'. You have to know your stuff to micro dose and that's why I believe the team AND the docs need to be punished not just the rider.

another ex-postal/disco rider busted... interesting coincidence...

So is it only the rider who gets busted? I thought the team doctors have a responsibility to the riders to keep them clean.

I'm just a little surprised that you only hear the rider (user) and nobody else (dealer) getting busted.

I trust that everyone on this forum has gone back and read this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=140999&highlight=epo+test. Don't know how I missed the original velonews article, but it does make for interesting reading.

I don't know what's more dissapointing the fact that he cheated or that "He'll fight to the end" to prove his innocence. I wish these guys would just admit that doping is part and parcel of the professional peleton when they get caught take their punishment. If they were smart they'd bank the money from those huge contracts and then live comfortably after they are busted.

There need to be a few of these big names who drop a dime on the whole stinking peloton. Names need named. All of it needs to come out.

LeMond did it and was called a sore loser and a crybaby. Simeoni did it and Lance publicly crucified him in the middle of a stage. I can understand why others are keeping their mouths shut.

Yeah, the tests are unreliable. They miss 98% of the doping that goes on. When they come up positive, it's because the rider got sloppy with his technique.

I went through some cycling magazines at home and found an interesting article in the Sept. 2005 issue of cycle sport (the one with Armstrong on the cover). There was a short article in it about the wife of Darius Frigo (sp?) getting arrested for helping to hide his doping equipment. In the article there was also a comment about the ways in which these guys try to get around the doping controls. Apparently the tests are quite expensive so they can't do them every day during long stage races. What some riders are doing (according to the article) is "microdoping" immediately after the drug control. This entails taking about 1/5 the normal dosage of EPO. This amount clears their system within 24 hours, so by the time they are tested again, they appear "clean". They are willing to take the chance, assuming that there won't be any random controls within 24 hours of the previous one.

This is sad in more ways than one. I'm curious.... if the EPO test is so accurate and that everyone is doping (says Mauro Salizzoni) how come riders aren't getting busted left, right & center. Is it truely everyone or just a few under pressure to perform and willing to take the chance?

It's "accurate" in the sense that if the test is postive, it's extremely doubtful that they didn't use EPO. But it's not "accurate" in the sense of catching a rider every time they use. There is a huge 'margin of error' that they use.

The doc thing is really the key. If the UCI and WADA want to really get serious yank the license of any team who's doc can be proved to help these guys. When a team has it's entire livelyhood at stake they may be more reluctant to facilatate the cheating, and yes I believe that this is done with the teams full knowlage. Most of these cyclists come from pretty simple backgrounds I find it difficult at best to believe that they are doping themselves. To micro dose EPO isn't something some farmboy just picks up, he's got to have some professional help.couldn't agree more.