So why is that that when there are two people in a vehicle - talking - it's not a problem. But when a person is on a cell phone - talking - that it causes people to become unfocused drivers?

Someone please tell me what is the difference? Seriously.

And for the record I don't even own a d#$n cell phone. Never have, never will.

if there are two people in the car, there are twice as many eyes on the road. the passenger may warn the driver if something is coming up. and i also think solo drivers tend to drive more aggressively (just an assumption, no real basis for it).

So why is that that when there are two people in a vehicle - talking - it's not a problem. But when a person is on a cell phone - talking - that it causes people to become unfocused drivers?

Someone please tell me what is the difference? Seriously.

And for the record I don't even own a d#$n cell phone. Never have, never will.

I don't think the talking is the issue. If a hands-free kit isn't used the issue is only having one hand on the wheel. Another issue is the act of dialing or worse - TEXT MESSAGING - that takes your attention from the road. But there are some people who can't talk and drive at the same time whether the talking is done on a phone or to the person next to them.

"When I die I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming like the passengers of his car"
-- Jack Handey

Conversation in the car - the person talking with the driver is aware of the situation around, so if there is a traffic complication and the driver suddenly stops talking he doesnt say "Hullo, hullo, are you still there????"

So why is that that when there are two people in a vehicle - talking - it's not a problem. But when a person is on a cell phone - talking - that it causes people to become unfocused drivers?

Someone please tell me what is the difference? Seriously.

And for the record I don't even own a d#$n cell phone. Never have, never will.

The difference is that the person at the other end of the cell phone conversation cannot perceive risks in the driving environment. Even if passengers don't warn the driver of threats, they will naturally pause and do other things that let the driver handle the situation well.

Social convention demands a certain amount of engagement in any conversation. Passengers naturally release themselves and the driver when appropriate. A person at the other end of a cell phone call does not.

People don't feel obligated to be engaged with the radio which is why listening to music through the speakers at reasonable volumes is also not a threat -- the driver instantly drops attention to the radio when necessary.

Cell phones aren't an evil thing. I held out for a long time and just got one a couple years ago. I probably only use it once a month, but they are very good when you really need to make yourself reachable or when you need to contact others. I use mine to tell others when I get a flat or have mechanical problems so they won't worry when I don't show up on time. People tell me that they appreciate that I do this.

Cell phones induce an absence of presence. In other words, two people conversing are in the same place sharing the same experiences. But a person on the phone is trying to be in two places at once and many people are unable to do that, so they become mentally absent from the place where they physically are in order to be mentally present to the person on the phone.

Also, it seems any time I've been called by someone on a cell phone in a car they are invariably asking me for someone else's telephone number. How safe can that possibly be?

So why is that that when there are two people in a vehicle - talking - it's not a problem.
What really drives me nuts is those tv shows where the two cops are driving along and the driver is talking to the other guy. Like, Clint Eastwood is looking straight at the passenger and going on and on without even looking at the road. At any moment I expect some pedestrian to bounce up off their windshield and Clint Eastwood to say, "He should have armed himself..."

put another way:

everyday, on new york sidewalks, i bump into someone who is trying to walk and talk on the cell phone at the same time. it happens going up and down stairs, on the bus, shopping, wherever. even on MUP's i pass people who are walking or jogging while on the phone and they are startled when i pass because they don't realize i'm there.

if pedestrians are bumping into things and not paying attention, it's no surprise that drivers would have the same problems. only now, instead of being very annoying, it's downright dangerous. humans have not evolved enough to concentrate on two things at once.

Its also the type of conversation. I used to have fairly detailed business conversations over my cell while driving. These often required a lot of attention (i.e. topics were where I was going, who I was meeting, equipment to grab). Then, I almost got crushed merging onto the freeway by an 18-wheeler while having one of these conversations. From that point on, I never answered my phone while driving. I'd sooner drive with a few pints in me (not that I would).

Observing drivers who have rolled past a stop sign without stopping will usually be ones on a cell phone. Their body language is all hunched up with a glassy stare straight ahead. This demonstrates that some conversations are emotional in nature and overtakes a driver’s attention in a big way, as they visualize strongly something being discussed. This shows how cell phone usage can be quite dangerous while driving.

I don't think the talking is the issue. If a hands-free kit isn't used the issue is only having one hand on the wheel. Another issue is the act of dialing or worse - TEXT MESSAGING - that takes your attention from the road. But there are some people who can't talk and drive at the same time whether the talking is done on a phone or to the person next to them.

"When I die I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming like the passengers of his car"
-- Jack Handey

Actually, taking is the issue. Studies have shown, much to the dismay of the cell phon industry, that hands-free equipment does not reduce accident rates from using cell phones.

Obviously, any activity that diverts your eyes from the road, dialling, text messaging, fiddling with the stereo system, unwrapping a cheeseburger, etc. are bad things to do while driving.

IMHO, there's no difference. It more a matter of how engaged the driver is with the secondary activity, whether it be on the cell or listening to Rushmuck or checking out the babe in the next car or getting some "special" attention from the gf, and of course, all the various combinations :D

Those of us who've commited the sin of talking on the phone in the car (I don't do it anymore!) know that you're far more distracted from the road than if you are talking to a passenger.

As an analogy, maybe you can relate to this scenario (not in a car): If you are talking to someone face to face, and a second person butts in, it's easy to switch your attention to them for a moment and deal with them. However, if you're on the phone and some one interrupts you, it's much harder to wrench your attention away from the phone call. You're way more likely to cover the receiver and yell "I'm on the PHO-OHNE! Can't you wait 'til I'm DONE??". Since you can't see the person on the phone, I think a phone conversation somehow draws you into a different state of consciousness, where you meet the other party in a kind of alternate dimension. When you are talking to someone face to face, your mind remains in this world.

Cell phones induce an absence of presence. In other words, two people conversing are in the same place sharing the same experiences. But a person on the phone is trying to be in two places at once and many people are unable to do that, so they become mentally absent from the place where they physically are in order to be mentally present to the person on the phone.

Also, it seems any time I've been called by someone on a cell phone in a car they are invariably asking me for someone else's telephone number. How safe can that possibly be?

Absence of presence. I like it. Only thing that I'd add is that it's not the phones or hands involved in inducing the absence of presence, since new studies show that same thing happens with "hands free" systems.

If this is a quantifiable phenominom, then there should be laws against driving while talking to another person who is somewhere else. This has to be a no-brainer for the psych folks to test. There are actually laws against having a phone in your hand while driving in Connecticut

...humans have not evolved enough to concentrate on two things at once...

This is why pop singers often just lip sync at their own concerts -- asking even the pros to sing and dance at the same time is too much.

Years ago, I successfuly walked and chewed gum at the same time. Wouldn't want to try that cycling though.

Years ago, I successfuly walked and chewed gum at the same time.
That hearkens back to Lyndon Johnson who is sometimes credited with describing Gerald Ford as a man so inept he couldn't chew gum and walk at the same time. Perhaps your comments were inspired by that quotation. However, those familiar with Johnson's colourful phraseology claim that what he actually said was that Ford couldn't chew gum and pharrt at the same time.

As an analogy, maybe you can relate to this scenario (not in a car): If you are talking to someone face to face, and a second person butts in, it's easy to switch your attention to them for a moment and deal with them. However, if you're on the phone and some one interrupts you, it's much harder to wrench your attention away from the phone call. You're way more likely to cover the receiver and yell "I'm on the PHO-OHNE! Can't you wait 'til I'm DONE??". Since you can't see the person on the phone, I think a phone conversation somehow draws you into a different state of consciousness, where you meet the other party in a kind of alternate dimension. When you are talking to someone face to face, your mind remains in this world.

In that analogy: if you're talking face to face and someone in the room butts in, of course the person you're talking with will see/hear it. If you're talking on the phone and someone present in person butts in, your friend on the phone won't see and probably won't hear that you've been interrupted. She may keep on talking. If she wasn't talking and you were, you'll find yourself obligated to explain why you didn't finish your sentence, and why you are now struggling to pick up your earlier train of thought.

Most of the time, driving doesn't require much of us. We can carry on conversations fine. But things requiring a little bit of extra concentration can happen every 30 seconds or every 5 minutes, and things requiring our very best concentration also happen, though less often. Normally passengers will know when the driver needs to concentrate, and allow the conversation to stop, but it doesn't work that way with phone conversations.

Unlike the person on the other end of the cellphone, the passanger has a vested interest in the safe operation of the vehichle by the driver.

I wander how keen someone would be to have that phone conversation if they had a bomb next to them set to go off if the driver they're talking to has an accident during the phone call.

If you're talking on the phone and someone present in person butts in, your friend on the phone won't see and probably won't hear that you've been interrupted. She may keep on talking. If she wasn't talking and you were, you'll find yourself obligated to explain why you didn't finish your sentence, and why you are now struggling to pick up your earlier train of thought.
I'm sure that's true, but I think my point (actually first made by sbhikes earlier in the thread) that you're partially detached from your surroundings during a phone call applies as well. That's how I've exerienced it, at least.

I noticed a world of difference between a hands free cell phone and one that I have to hold. The former doesn't seem to affect my driving, and the latter feels very unsafe. Not sure why. I drive with one hand all the time. And I can talk and drive, no problem.

Since I don't own a hands free phone right now, I don't use it and drive anyway. Actually, half the time I don't even know where my cell phone is. I hate the damn things.

Except, of course, at U2 concert's during the performance of "One."

So why is that that when there are two people in a vehicle - talking - it's not a problem. But when a person is on a cell phone - talking - that it causes people to become unfocused drivers?

Someone please tell me what is the difference? Seriously.

And for the record I don't even own a d#$n cell phone. Never have, never will.

Have you really watched people talk to each other? The driver watches the passenger more than the road! Hands flying, pointing, gesturing.

Cars should be outlawed. :p

John Wilke
Milwaukee