Touring - Advice on bicycle for women/people with long legs and short backs

Hello everyone, I'm trying to find the right new bike for me and having some problems, so I would love your advice. I want my bike for light touring (maybe up to 4 days but only rear panniers), 1/2 day rides and commuting. I'm a 173 cm (5 foot 8) female with an 82.5 cm inseam (yeah really long legs, great in a miniskirt but hard to find the right bike for! Despite this I am assured that I have the classic cyclist's dimensions!). While I am tall enough to fit most guy's bikes they are generaly designed for men with much longer backs than me. To climb the mountains in NZ I would like my bike to be light and have a triple. I think I prefer drop handle bars to straight but I am open to discussion there. I want to be able to attach rear panniers or an equivalent but don't need front panniers. I am thinking relaxed geometry road bike might be good for me? Some of the makes that are showing promise are Lemond Reno Womens, Sub Zero or Specialised Dolce Elite. There seems to be a lot of positive talk on the forums about the men's Specialised Sequoia bikes for light touring - do any women out there ride them? Or men with short backs and long legs? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks, Zie

You are on the right track, Zie, and you might also consider the Trek WSD (Women's Specific Design) models. No, in spite of my signature, I do not work for Trek - just like them...

Zie, I have the same legs but 2 more inches in height. I ride a Trek 520 pretty comfortably but I imagine that 2 inches would really make it not right for you. However, I just bought a bike with "trekking" handlebars and they create a much shorter cockpit even though the frame is "normal." Take a look at these:

http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/product/handlebars/itmhandlebars/itmleisurehandlebars/

The open end goes toward the seat meaning the grips are located like a much shorter frame. Plus you get the multi position advantage of drop bars.

Just a thought.

Another thought is to check out Terry bicycles (www.terrybicycles.com). These are women specific bicycles and will definitely fit you as you are not as tall as some (I'm 6'0" with long legs and so I know how you feel!). They have a wide variety of bikes for all different types of riding, including custom, and the prices are reasonable.

I wound up buying a Trek 520 touring bike, and the only modification needed was a shorter stem. Although I don't think my torso is as short in comparison to my height as yours is.

Good Luck!
Cherry Bomb

Thanks guys for your help. You know somehow I had missed that Trek had the WSD range - so I am now onto that - thanks mtnroads. Unfortunately there are no Terry stockists in my part of the world :-( and I don't want to buy a bike without trying it first - but they do look good, thanks Cherry Bomb. And vadopazzo, it had never occured to me to try a different type of handlbar, thanks. But this leads me to another question: how do non-standard handlebars affect your brakes and gears - do you have to change them or can they just be attached to the new handlebar?

Although I am a male, I fit your geometry: 1.81 m (5' 11"), 89 cm (35") inseam. Basically, the only things WSD mean is that they offer:
– smaller frames, which you don't need;
– shorter cranks – sometimes –, which you don't need;
– narrower handlebars, which could be changed by the LBS;
– shorter stem, which may be swapped easily;
– shorter top tube: depends on model;
– "girly" colour: depends on your tastes, though pink is probably a good theft deterrent.

Basically, any bike where you can get the handlebars relatively close to you and at least at the level of your saddle would be a good choice. If you are lightweight, a "light touring" frame such as the Fuji might be a good choice, but you will get a surprisingly good performance machine with a Trek 520 or Cannondale Txxx fitted with narrow 28 to 32 mm tires (keep the 32 to 35 mm tires if you weight 150-175 lb).

In terms of handlebars, you probably will like 40 to 42 cm wide handlebars (centre-centre), but wider handlebars are more stable through strong crosswinds and when towing a trailercycle. But bear in mind that it's highly subjective: my 1980 touring bike had 39 cm bars and my 2000 Trek 520 had 46-cm bars (c-c), and I quickly realised that I much prefer the wide 46-cm bars, even though I should theoretically use 42-43-cm handlebars.

Changing front end vs brakes and shifters.
Changing the stem or its height is a trivial matter. Current stems are open faced and have 2 or 4 bolts. One just needs to remove the bars from the stem, remove the old stem and install the new one, then reattach the bars. No need to remove bar tape, shifters or brake levers. In extreme cases (ex. raising the bars too much) you may need new longer housing and cables, but that's a rare situation.
As for changing the handlebars: you may replace any model of drop bars by any other model of drop bars, providing they have the same clamp size (25,4 mm(rare), 26,0 mm or 31,8 mm, which is related to the stem). All drop bars have the same diametre so you just need to remove everything from the old bars and reinstall everything on the new ones. If you like weird bars, mustache bars (see Rivendell website) are compatible with drop bars.
However, straight bars and their variants (priest bars, old "city" bars found on 1960s 3-speed bikes) have a different smaller handlebar diameter so if you take a bike with drop bars and convert it to straight bars – or vice versa – you need to buy new shifters and brake levers. It then becomes an expensive proposition.

Find the top tube length that you need first. Since you have long legs, you'll be able to stand over any stock frame (whose top tube fits) with ease.

You are the picture of a custom frame purchaser.

Find the top tube length that you need first. Since you have long legs, you'll be able to stand over any stock frame (whose top tube fits) with ease.


If you do this, then it will have too short of seat tube, putting the bars too low. Get the largest framesize for your inseam, then worry about adjusting bar reach with the stem. If a 70cm or so stem still has the bars too far out, then it's time for a custom frame, or look at stuff like the Trek WSD, or the Specialized female bikes. They address this problem with shorter top tubes.

If you do this, then it will have too short of seat tube, putting the bars too low. Get the largest framesize for your inseam, then worry about adjusting bar reach with the stem. If a 70cm or so stem still has the bars too far out, then it's time for a custom frame, or look at stuff like the Trek WSD, or the Specialized female bikes. They address this problem with shorter top tubes.

Agreed, but given her proportions, it'll be hard to do this on a modern bike without an inordinantly short top tube. Older touring or "sport road" models are more likely to have the right kind of geometry.

(EDIT) That didn't make sense. It should have said "it'll be hard to do this on a modern bike without an inordinantly short STEM"

A made-to-measure Mercian or Bob Jackson can be built up as a light tourer for around $1500-$2000 (probably even less) depending upon options and componentry. That's very comparable to equivalent production bikes that probably won't fit as well.

I've gone this route for similar reasons and can answer questions about how to work with an overseas custom builder.

Just checked the Mercian web site. Their Audax special (made for just this sort of riding), built to order with Campy Veloce is just over $2k (USD). I don't recall if that includes VAT or not. Money can be saved by buying a frame only and build kit separately from a US distributor and building it yourself.

(EDIT) Turns out that price includes 17.5% VAT so a US purchaser would pay significantly less.

Given how much of her height is her legs, I would be concerned her short little arms won't reach the bars on a bike sized to accommodate those legs.

Probably doesn't have short little arms. The long-legged tend to be long-limbed, which may be why she was told her sizing wasn't that far off because the length of her arms makes up for the shorter torso. Like Zie, I'm bike shopping and interestingly enough my proportions are very similar. At this point in time, I've pretty much decided to go with Waterford and get some custom geometry and a beautiful bike at a fairly reasonable price.

-- s

Try R&E cycles in Seattle - they have a particular line of ladies touring bikes the make "the Stella" that retail sfrom 1100 to 1600. Occasionally you will see them on Craigs lists as well - I think I'd swap a few of the components out , but the basic frame will meet your needs. I've run across these bikes a number of times on the coastal trails Seattle to LA and the Northwest to Canada routes.

People, get real! 82.5 out of 173 isn't extreme. Those are normal proportions for a normal male of that height. People make too much of these fit issues. Just get a bike of roughly the correct size, and simply adjust saddle height and stem length until you're comfortable.

If the bike fits, ride it!

Maybe a visit and some gelder for a custom fitting at a shop near you? Give you an idea of what geometry suits you the best? Then you can pick and choose from all your options. CdCf has a good point about a standard sized bike may work just fine with adjustments to stem/saddle.

R&E in Seattle totally has it going on with fittings, stock and custom bikes, as well as the ultimate travel bike (I think Willie Weir rides one), that does the suitcase trick. and their Stella bikes seem to have very roadworthy, not sugar coated, 'women's specific design.'

Try and get fit on a bike by someone who knows what they are doing. But in the end it comes down to what is comfortable. My wife is about 5'10" so when we bought her bike we skipped right past the women's bikes and looked at the men's. Our LBS will help fit your bike, actually spent quite a bit of time with her to get it right. She ended up with a slightly smaller bike than I imagined, a 54cm road bike even though she would fit just fine on a 56cm, but she felt a little more relaxed and comfortable on the smaller frame so that's what we bought. Basically, just try them all out and see what fits best.

People, get real! 82.5 out of 173 isn't extreme. Those are normal proportions for a normal male of that height. People make too much of these fit issues. Just get a bike of roughly the correct size, and simply adjust saddle height and stem length until you're comfortable.

People who make "too much" of fit issues are people who have tried to deal with ill-fitting bikes and lived to regret it.

what he said. :)

People who make "too much" of fit issues are people who have tried to deal with ill-fitting bikes and lived to regret it.

But the frame isn't the issue! As long as you have enough margin to adjust saddle position and stem length, the actual frame size doesn't matter at all.
My first bike didn't fit me, but after a new stem and handle bar, the fit was great.

But the frame isn't the issue! As long as you have enough margin to adjust saddle position and stem length, the actual frame size doesn't matter at all.
My first bike didn't fit me, but after a new stem and handle bar, the fit was great.

The frame =is= the issue. Sure, you can (sometimes) force too small or too large frames to work but it comprimises balance, handling, comfort and sometimes safety. This is why only Wal-Mart bikes are "one size fits all" and every respectable manufacturer sells a range of sizes and styles.

Every length and every angle affects the fit, feel and characteristics of road bike. This is especially important when you're spending many hours touring on it.

Ah well, believe what you want...

Ah well, believe what you want...

Of course that's what we all do.

In selecting that which I choose to believe I'll take practical geometry along with my experiences and those of thousands of builders, manufacturers and cyclists over the opinions of a single anonymous swedish student.

And you can't see that there's absolutely no difference in adding 1 cm of seat tube length and one 1 cm seat post length?

Hey Zie!

Don't know if they've already been mentioned but check this builder out:
http://www.lunacycles.com/

And you can't see that there's absolutely no difference in adding 1 cm of seat tube length and one 1 cm seat post length?

No, because there =is= a difference. Adding a cm to the seat post adds a cm of drop from the saddle to the bars. Furthermore, since the seat tube is at an angle, adding to the seat post length increases the effective length of the cockpit. Overall reach is NOT solely the sum of the length of the stem and the top tube. The drop from the saddle to the bars adds length as well. It also moves weight distribution forward.

You can compensate for some of this by using a shorter stem with some rise on it, but it's rather limited by how much. Since production frames are usually sized in 2-3cm increments and designed to function best with a 100-110mm stem, getting a frame off by one size can be hard to adjust and involves some comprimises.

Because of my short torso and unwillingess to pay custom tandem prices, my tandem has a 90mm stem that sticks almost straight up and it is still not near as comfortable as any of my singles. It's about as close to my size as a production tandem gets. (DaVinci's standard geometry gets closer but at their prices, I could just go custom.)

No, because there =is= a difference. Adding a cm to the seat post adds a cm of drop from the saddle to the bars.

Which can easily be corrected by putting spacers between the headset and the stem.


Furthermore, since the seat tube is at an angle, adding to the seat post length increases the effective length of the cockpit.

Which can be corrected by moving the saddle backwards or forwards in combination with an adjusted stem length.

Which can easily be corrected by putting spacers between the headset and the stem.


Assuming there is sufficient steerer length and the fit is not too far off.



Which can be corrected by moving the saddle backwards or forwards in combination with an adjusted stem length.

Assuming there is sufficient adjustment in the saddle and stem and the fit is not far off from the start. Adjusting the saddle position for reach is generally a bad idea as it affects the relationship to the pedals.

For the most part you don't get more than 2cm of adjustment in any direction. Since frame sizes usually increment 2-3cm at a time, and top tube lengths for any particular frame size vary among manufacturers by 2-3cm as well, it's not always possible to dial in a fit on a frame one size too small or too large or even on the "right" size (at least not without making some poor comprimises).

Frame geometries, body proportions and fitness levels vary significantly which complicates things further.

That is why it is far from accurate to say that "the frame isn't the issue." Everything starts with the frame. Stem, saddle and crank length adjustments fine tune a correctly fitting bike, they don't take the place of a good fit.

Sure, you have to get a frame that's reasonably close to your own size.
The frame I have, the LHT, comes in sizes from 42 to 62 cm, in 4 or 2 cm steps. Naturally, only two or three of those sizes could be made to fit any one person using my methods. But as long as your bike is about the right size, the more precise fit issues can easily be handled by adjusting other stuff.

I wanted 26" wheels, so I got the 54 cm LHT, even though "fit calculators" would suggest a 56 or 58 cm size for my body. No fit problems for me. And I've even got a weak back, scoliosis, one leg shorter than the other, weak joints and a bad neck. It's only as difficult as you want to make it for yourself...

Of course, I'm relatively normal in other respects. 5'10" and 33.5" inseam.

Sure, you have to get a frame that's reasonably close to your own size.
The frame I have, the LHT, comes in sizes from 42 to 62 cm, in 4 or 2 cm steps. Naturally, only two or three of those sizes could be made to fit any one person using my methods. But as long as your bike is about the right size, the more precise fit issues can easily be handled by adjusting other stuff.

I wanted 26" wheels, so I got the 54 cm LHT, even though "fit calculators" would suggest a 56 or 58 cm size for my body. No fit problems for me. And I've even got a weak back, scoliosis, one leg shorter than the other, weak joints and a bad neck. It's only as difficult as you want to make it for yourself...

Of course, I'm relatively normal in other respects. 5'10" and 33.5" inseam.

It's easier to get away with a small frame on an LHT than on most other bikes. It comes with LOTS of uncut steerer tube so you can stack lots of spacers. Even so, I still think it's a bad tradeoff to go with a small frame for the minimal benefits of 26" wheels. But I don't have any quarrel with what works for you.

It doesn't come with that much steerer tube. Maybe 3.5" above the headset.

Minimal benefits of 26" wheels? Try fitting 2" studded tyres+full fenders on a 700c-version of it...

Hey guys! Wow, I go away for the weekend, come back and my post has taken off! Thanks for all your input!

So adding a bit to the issue of adjusting bikes. I have been finding, my boyfriend has been saying and bike shop guys who are not charlatans say, that on most mens bikes adjusting the saddle to handle bar length so that it is correct for my short torso means adjusting my stem length to be so short that I lose fine steering control on the bike. Also because of women's different anatomy - e.g. our different pelvises - we tend to like to sit on bikes with the handle bar a bit higher relative to the seat than men. This can be hard on a men's frame that is too small and the seat is up at its max height to take my legs

On my arm length: its 70cm cm which I think is longish but not as comparitively long as my legs so I don't have a particualy long reach.

And on my bike. I went to a fantastic bikeshop on Friday evening which actually stocks womens bikes and is prepared to get in my size for me to try without me having to buy the bike first. And they were honest and didn't try to sell me a mens bike which obviously didn't fit me. I did ask to try the Specialised Sequoia and they took one look at me on it (they had my "size") and said they honestly didn't think men's bikes were for me. So I have ordered in a Sub Zero 2 to try - just a two week wait! We decided the Specialized Dolce Elite wasn't as good value for a similar geometry so have given it the flick.

Oh and on girl's bike colours - yeah what is it with the pink and pastels!?! Come on, if we were into those colours we wouldn't be riding bikes! But I am prepared to put up with sickly colours for comfort

Thanks again for everyone's input, its lots for me to think about

How exciting! thanks for the update!