Foo - How wrong is this? (relationship question)

One of the disappointing aspects of Western culture is that, in fact, most males are TOLD to be interested in you. The male dreamland fantasy created by our cultures is essentially to be surrounded in a room full of lustfilled women. Consider

1) Music videos. How often is the main male portrayed, essentially, as a pimp.
2) Advertisements. Sexual objectification shots are rampant. Men learn to think of most women as sexual partners. Young girls in advertisements are usually portrayed as much smaller than a male counterpart, or without a voice (i.e., the mouth is covered).
3) Film. Also with objectification.
4) The tough guise. Men are told to be tough, and part of this toughness involves putting sexual feelings before emotions.

I could go on for hours, really. It is such an ingrained thing, too. As a mathematician, I am fairly analytical, but I had to basically be spoon fed this stuff before I realized it existed.

We think our genders, personalities, etc., are so determinstic. Are a product of nature. Even the best of us can't, at that point, realize when something is being constructed.

Most people are very well aware about body image problems young females face. They are aware of how the advertisements basically present the image that, while your body is ugly, if you buy our beauty product you might be liked.

Males go through the same thing, but instead of telling us we are ugly every second males are told to find sex and be tough.
Please lets ignore the facts :D

Confess :d

So....um...If someone asks you what you're doing this weekend and then follows by asking you to go do something with her, how do you interpret it?

I mean, it was an ambiguous activity (going to a party with people she knew), so I'm confused.

BTW, I turned it down with some lame excuse, so don't worry about that.

Oh yeah, and my GF knows, but the other girl still doesn't. Up to this it had been perfectly normal not telling her. I mean, it just hadn't come up. But now that she asked that I think I should tell her. Then again, what if she was just being friendly and then I say I have a GF and then she tells me "Don't worry, it was nothing like that."

seems to me like friends don't set up their friends to feel like fools. and that could be what you've done to this girl, if she is asking because she's attracted to you. if she is and she's a basically nice person, then she's gone from friendship to feeling attracted to you because you never told her that you're off the market. and you never told her because on some level you knew she probably wouldn't hit on someone who's taken, but you wanted to find out how far her own feelings would go if she didn't know that one fact.


That would make me feel like an idiot.

well, no offence. but maybe it's more fair that you should feel that way, rather than her? it seems to me like the alternative is to keep quiet to save your own face and let her feel like a much bigger one, eventually. i think if you really want to save the friendship you'll have to tell her and let it go whichever way it goes now.

in a more general sense, i noticed you said you don't have many friends beside your girlfriend. can i offer an observation? i work in a male-weighted field and have a kid who plays baseball, so i spend a heck of a lot more time than i ever expected just interacting with men. and i've noticed that in general it seems like none of us is really well-prepared to grow and maintain truly subtext-free friendships across gender lines. i don't really see how it matters whether that's a nature or nurture thing, since it sets up the same complications whatever you think it's about. but if you found yourself sort of knee-jerking towards relationship-type thoughts about this friend, it doesn't have to mean either of you is attracted to the point that spells 'relationship'. could be because you just don't really know what else to do with the fact that you like each other.

... ...
Males go through the same thing, but instead of telling us we are ugly every second males are told to find sex and be tough.

hmmmm, ok. I thought men were just horny in general, without being told to be

yeah, it's the raging hormones... which don't subside until we reach our late 80s, ugh

The flirt threshold for men are a LOT lower than for women.
Woman: "Excuse me, do you have the time?"
Man: "OMG, she's flirting with me""

Standing joke was:

Woman: "Excuse me, do you have the time?"
Man: "Sure, if you have the energy..."

seems to me like friends don't set up their friends to feel like fools. and that could be what you've done to this girl, if she is asking because she's attracted to you. if she is and she's a basically nice person, then she's gone from friendship to feeling attracted to you because you never told her that you're off the market. and you never told her because on some level you knew she probably wouldn't hit on someone who's taken, but you wanted to find out how far her own feelings would go if she didn't know that one fact.

I hate to admit it, but you're right. I've made things weird by not telling her earlier, and that's completely my fault. And it's weird because at this point even if she openly asked me out it wouldn't be as exciting as I originally thought it would be. From the selfish point of view, I need the friend more than I need the ego boost. From the caring for others point of view, I like her as a person and I wouldn't want her to feel weird from all of this mess.

But there's hope. Her offer was unclear. It's hard to tell if she was just being nice or if she wants it to turn it into something else. For that reason I think it's best not to just come out and say, "We need to talk. I have a girlfriend." It seems like a better idea to act like I assumed the offer was just her being nice and let the gf thing come up casually. But I need it to come up ASAP.

Here's my idea, but others are welcome. Christmas is coming up soon, so maybe I could just ask her what she's doing for Christmas and I can tell her I'm looking forward to spending time with my girlfriend. That just seems like normal conversation, right? I mean, part of Christmas is spending time with people you love.

Can a guy be a friend to a girl he's attracted to? I think he can. It seems better to admit it, recognize it, and not act on it than to try to deny and repress it.

If I wanted to take it to a weird extreme I could argue that even same sex friends are unconsciously attracted to each other.

Ummmm... boys just don't read this much on the subject of relationships. Is there an article in Men's Health you can recommend instead?

:D

Koffee

Those articles are too long--if they would just condense them into a graph :D

Yeah, quality lasting relationships take time and understanding of human behaviors for what they are, rather than what we wish them to be. Unfortunately in today's society, we want fast-food relationships as well; drive up to the window and order! ;)

Ok LSPlo, forget all the analyses and second-guessing, take control damnit! How this relationship progresses and where it ends up is up to you! Think threesome!!!

You know What "LOVE STINKS"

And it's weird because at this point even if she openly asked me out it wouldn't be as exciting as I originally thought it would be.

doesn't seem weird to me. it's just one of those things that seem cool in theory, until you imagine them actually happening with all the complications and the real live other people involved. if she's been feeling subtext, she might actually feel the same way. is it possible you were just kind of testing boundaries, subconsciously? if so, you've probably got some of the answers you were looking for about yourself. and, you know. getting the answer that you're perfectly capable of attracting friendships isn't chopped liver.


From the selfish point of view, I need the friend more than I need the ego boost.

:D i'd call that a healthy lifestyle choice. imo friends can do a lot more for you than your own ego can.

. . . . yeah, she might feel insulted if you just blurt at her. it makes sense that you're wondering, considering. but to say 'i've got a girlfriend' might make her feel like you're saying you think she Only Thinks Of One Thing. or that she's not capable of just being friends without wanting to escalate. women get tired of hearing that whole tired clingy-grabby-needy biological clock stereotype about themselves, like men probaby get tired of hearing the equivalent one.

another idea would be to kill two birds with one stone and follow up on her party invitation by saying something like 'i'd like to, but me and my gf have planned to . . . on that day.'


Can a guy be a friend to a girl he's attracted to? I think he can.

heh. are you saying 'can a guy feel friendly towards' or 'can a guy be a worthwhile friend to'? for the second one i think it would be the girl's call to make. you can't if the attraction makes her uncomfortable. i'm a bit squirrelly about it, personally. my friendships matter to me, so i hate losing one to weird undertones.



It seems better to admit it, recognize it, and not act on it than to try to deny and repress it.

sure. it's not like we move in with the people we like and make friends with the ones we can't stand. it's all part of the same continuum, if you ask me. it's just that it gets so loaded to say 'i like you' across gender lines, because it's such uncharted territory.

Time for another update. Today's installment happened via e-mail, BTW.

So I was trying to ease my way into talking about Christmas plans so I could finally get this over with, and before I know it she's asking me to eat dinner with her. Again, maybe that's an ambiguous invitation, but it kind of sounds like a date to me.

Well, I wrote back and spilled the beans. I was real casual about it though, and it actually made sense to mention it because she asked me to eat on the same night I'm doing something with my GF. Then I said we should hang out some other time, basically pretending that I thought her offer was just a friendly kind of thing.

We'll see what happens when she responds. I hope she just plays it off and we can still talk and stuff like that without things being weird.

Questions:
1. Is it safe to assume she would have gone on a date with me if I were single?
2. Is this going to make things weird? Did I let it go too far?

Time for another update. Today's installment happened via e-mail, BTW.

So I was trying to ease my way into talking about Christmas plans so I could finally get this over with, and before I know it she's asking me to eat dinner with her. Again, maybe that's an ambiguous invitation, but it kind of sounds like a date to me.

Well, I wrote back and spilled the beans. I was real casual about it though, and it actually made sense to mention it because she asked me to eat on the same night I'm doing something with my GF. Then I said we should hang out some other time, basically pretending that I thought her offer was just a friendly kind of thing.

We'll see what happens when she responds. I hope she just plays it off and we can still talk and stuff like that without things being weird.

Questions:
1. Is it safe to assume she would have gone on a date with me if I were single?
2. Is this going to make things weird? Did I let it go too far?


I think....if this was a romantic offer....she's likely to just wonder why you never mentioned the girlfriend before.....and maybe feel a bit stupid.....or that you're making the girlfriend up in order to not do something with her. :rolleyes:

Time for another update. Today's installment happened via e-mail, BTW.

So I was trying to ease my way into talking about Christmas plans so I could finally get this over with, and before I know it she's asking me to eat dinner with her. Again, maybe that's an ambiguous invitation, but it kind of sounds like a date to me.

Well, I wrote back and spilled the beans. I was real casual about it though, and it actually made sense to mention it because she asked me to eat on the same night I'm doing something with my GF. Then I said we should hang out some other time, basically pretending that I thought her offer was just a friendly kind of thing.

We'll see what happens when she responds. I hope she just plays it off and we can still talk and stuff like that without things being weird.

Questions:
1. Is it safe to assume she would have gone on a date with me if I were single?
2. Is this going to make things weird? Did I let it go too far?In general, guys tend to focus on the content of a message while chics look at the surrounding context. How did you spill the beans and being casual? She's going to pass it around to 10 of her closest friend and they're going to analyze all the subtle nuances of your message and all the possible meanings between the lines.

The idea of a "date" is not so clear-cut in black & white terms. Guys may consider it dating when the chic is just "hanging out". You're both feeling each other out and checking out the prospects, so yes, it's not the same kind of interaction as you'd have between two chics or between two guys, but no, it's not really a "date" either. Personally I don't think it's a date until you've got mutual fluid exchange.

You're not making anything weird if you get the message across, especially if it's in a light-hearted humorous context that's ambiguous. She can take it either way and gives you the ability make it more specific later if she's a little dense. Such as, "... if anything, you seem like you'd be a good friend..." which will take her a couple days to analyze. Or a little more cocky, "... well, I wouldn't seriously consider being with anyone who couldn't beat me on the bike anyway...". http://www.gururacing.com/graemlins/graemlin-tongue.gif

The devil you know is often better than the devil you don't.




that was profound !

Better to hire a thief or an idiot?

Time for another update. Today's installment happened via e-mail, BTW.

So I was trying to ease my way into talking about Christmas plans so I could finally get this over with, and before I know it she's asking me to eat dinner with her. Again, maybe that's an ambiguous invitation, but it kind of sounds like a date to me.

Well, I wrote back and spilled the beans. I was real casual about it though, and it actually made sense to mention it because she asked me to eat on the same night I'm doing something with my GF. Then I said we should hang out some other time, basically pretending that I thought her offer was just a friendly kind of thing.

We'll see what happens when she responds. I hope she just plays it off and we can still talk and stuff like that without things being weird.

Questions:
1. Is it safe to assume she would have gone on a date with me if I were single?
2. Is this going to make things weird? Did I let it go too far?

Ok, now that I like. Very casual, and it gently tells her you've got someone in your life. If she was harboring romantic hopeful feelings, she at least isn't being led on, and if she wasn't, she won't think anything of it. I really really like that approach.

My other thought is that I wonder why you have no friends. What... no work related friends? No friends to ride with? What do you do with your time if your gf is occupied? Maybe this whole thing with the other woman is more of a sign that you need to get out more and interact with people socially.

I am a pretty private person. There's only like 3 or 4 people tops that I let into my private life and everyone else is an acquaintence or someone to deal with. And even those 3 or 4 people have to hunt me down from time to time. I prefer my aloneless. I am like Greta Garbo. BUT... I socially interact with lots of people, which is why I like my down time and my alone time. You might want to consider getting out more and interacting with people. Join a gym, get into some group rides, enroll in a class at the local college and hook up with some people there. Get involved with some community events. Go to some social events sponsored by your city. Find some kind of common ground. Then when you do find some friends, network through them to find other friends. You need to have more than your gf as companionship. If I only had one friend and it was my bf, I'd probably reach over one night and murder him in his sleep because everything about him would be irritating to me at some point. When you spend that much time with someone and you've got no other outlets, no wonder you've got the time to look at all the things you don't like about her! You shouldn't have everything in common with the person you're with, but you should have a few common interests. But you both need to live separate lives. That means you need to get out more, my friend.

Koffee

Well, things don't look so good. She hasn't responded to my email yet.

Looks like I ****ed up.

that's what phones are for. call up, ask what's up, havent heard from you in ages, when's our next ride etc.

Don't worry about it, give her some time to digest it. She's consulting her committee on it right now. She's tossing it around in her head, thinking about you, dreaming about various scenarios in her head, it's all good. Don't call her for about a week, then take control with something like,

"Hey brat, wassup? Playing hard to get already ??? I'm doing this ________ ride in a couple days <describe ride with colorful words like: awesome, incredible, amazing...>. Just wondering if you can keep up... "

Well, things don't look so good. She hasn't responded to my email yet.

Looks like I ****ed up.

Not really. Shoot, you're supposed to keep that information to yourself and maybe you both get in a little too deep and then she finds out? If she can't handle, that's her problem, not yours.

Koffee

listen to dane cook-relationships and love. Do it

:mad: How old are you if you are still young break up cause you still got more important $***
to do in your life than a girlfriend. Having an early GF could ruin your lifes dreams
So jus Ditch her.

Yeah, probably the women. Cause as soon as he's honest with them, they'll both walk away. ;)

Koffee

I agree; if he's afraid to tell his girlfriend about his new riding buddy, he's already in trouble. Too late to tell her; she'll want to know how long he's been riding with her. And if he's not mentioned his girlfriend to his riding friend by now, the riding friend will immediately realize the reason why(he's got the hots for her). But the riding buddy has also not mentioned a significant other so she may be interested but I doubt it because if she were he'd know it by now unless he was like me, totally clueless when it comes to reading women.

Glad I'm married and don't have to worry about all that. I can just ride my bike.

Mercy! This is good humor. Danno--You need your 'man card' revoked. Get in touch with your cave man side a little. :D
OP: Maybe this girl is just taking your temperature for her own needs. Maybe you're doing the same. Maybe she's 'The One' and is here to break you out of your Dr. Phil comfort zone with your GF. Maybe she's the life wrecker you should run away from. You'll never know if you don't commit to something.


You can't talk about revoking someone's "man card" and mention Dr. Phil in the same paragraph.

I do agree that Danno must be careful. It's okay to do all this background research but don't talk like that to your date, she'll think you are another woman. If women didn't want a bit of the caveman in their man, they date other women. The most appealing is confidence. I chased off a couple of guys that were interested in the same woman I later married; both of them sensitive types from the English dept. Sensitive and insecure. I knew I wanted her and I got her. //beats chest, growls, gnaws on bone//

I'm a very happy, very lucky guy.

Sorry, I guess I should've taken Euro's advice and read the whole thread.

I think she's peeved that she took the leap and asked you out, only to get rejected plus learning you have a gf. And now that she's asked you out; how can you tell your gf about her? Your gf is going to want to know how you met, how long you've been riding, and if she's ever asked you out.

Why don't you get your gf to go riding with you?

Ok guys, this should be the last update. I hope it is, at least, or that means something else weird happened.

I got my reply, and she doesn't seem upset about it at all. She says the offer is still on the table, and I could even bring my gf along (not that I really believe that second part). On top of that, she's in some kind of relationship too. She says it's not a boyfriend though. WTF that means I have no idea.

So analyze it how you want. Maybe it just never came up because we haven't known each other that long, or maybe we're both unhappy in our relationships and were testing the waters.

So, in the end everybody knows about everybody else, but nobody really knows for sure how anybody else feels. Isn't life great?

BTW, I wish I could get my GF to go riding with me.

Ok guys, this should be the last update. I hope it is, at least, or that means something else weird happened.

I got my reply, and she doesn't seem upset about it at all. She says the offer is still on the table, and I could even bring my gf along (not that I really believe that second part). On top of that, she's in some kind of relationship too. She says it's not a boyfriend though. WTF that means I have no idea.

So analyze it how you want. Maybe it just never came up because we haven't known each other that long, or maybe we're both unhappy in our relationships and were testing the waters.

So, in the end everybody knows about everybody else, but nobody really knows for sure how anybody else feels. Isn't life great?
I smell a screwball comedy movie script in the works. Maybe you should write a treatment and shop it around Hollywood.

Does she ride a steel bike? Team kit or house brand? Oakleys, Rudy Project, or Wal-mart? How much carbon does she have on the bike? Focus on the bike, man!


:roflmao: Its fun being on a forum with bike Geeks. Wait a second! I'm here too. :(