Jose R, Road bars nothing new on the track but people been having problem raising their stem and can't do it due to the threadless stems.

S/F,
CEYA!

LOL, just flip the stem.

To me threadless is just better. Quill stems might look nice, but I don't think they are as versatile.

P.S. I saw that pic of the standard size tubing BB. That looks expensive and why bother anyway when OS tubes work.

LOL, just flip the stem.

To me threadless is just better. Quill stems might look nice, but I don't think they are as versatile.

P.S. I saw that pic of the standard size tubing BB. That looks expensive and why bother anyway when OS tubes work.


When I get a new bike, I adjust the stem height during the first ride or two.

After that, not so much.

---

OS tubing generally means 28.6mm top tubes and 31.8mm down tubes.

The 28.6 top tube doesn't make any sense to me. Top tubes don't do a lot. So 25.4 works for me.

Oversized down tubes on the other hand make total sense, especially for track bikes.

snipped:
And I agree, pretty but of questionable frame stiffening use.


yeah what he said.
those strut things are decorative elements at best.
e-RICHIE©™®

OS tubing generally means 28.6mm top tubes and 31.8mm down tubes.

The 28.6 top tube doesn't make any sense to me. Top tubes don't do a lot. So 25.4 works for me.

Oversized down tubes on the other hand make total sense, especially for track bikes.

Sounds good so far. I always thought the Model G was a great deal, but the geometry wasn't to my liking otherwise I would have bought one a long time ago.

snipped:



yeah what he said.
those strut things are decorative elements at best.
e-RICHIE©™®


Yeah but Johnny used to add his own and add more to connect to the tubes. I wish another guy I raced with is around , I would show you his frame.

Since it is not lugged , i will still comment but lugless and tig weld on a track is not me.

S/F,
CEYA!

Yeah but Johnny used to add his own and add more to connect to the tubes. I wish another guy I raced with is around , I would show you his frame.

Since it is not lugged , i will still comment but lugless and tig weld on a track is not me.

S/F,
CEYA!

Those little connectors look worthless. I know you are one of the guys who like bling and NJS bikes for show so I see your infatuation with this oddity.

I know you are one of the guys who like bling and NJS bikes for show so I see your infatuation with this oddity.
yeah - for show. Get a clue 53: you have embarrassed yourself enough. Please shut your mouth now before your assishness outweighs your ignorance.

You do not know Ceya, and you never will. Please - go away already. Ceya is a benefit around here. You are dead weight.

Those little connectors look worthless. I know you are one of the guys who like bling and NJS bikes for show so I see your infatuation with this oddity.

you have no idea who he is, do you?

']yeah - for show. Get a clue 53: you have embarrassed yourself enough. Please shut your mouth now before your assishness outweighs your ignorance.

You do not know Ceya, and you never will. Please - go away already. Ceya is a benefit around here. You are dead weight.

Wow, I didn't even say anything about the little hand painted star on your quill stem and I got this response. :eek:

P.S. Baxetefer I don't care how important Ceya is or whatever. I still think those little "strengthening" connectors are a joke. **** he could be the president of the USA and say that.....guess what, he'd still be wrong.

And yeah I get sick of hearing how quill stems are "pimpin" and stuff like that when better/cheaper equipment is available. The SS/FG forum like it's quirkness and panache, but I just like the stuff that works the very best.

if the frame is to be tig'd, we oughtn't strive for such a classic aesthetic. tig has its own vibe, and it's one which i find well apart from the elegant, graceful lines of a lugged frame. tig evokes adjectives of its own: stout, burly, substantial. it all has much to do with the bike's componentry.

probably the adjective associations i've implemented (they all find themselves in the end as being little more than cheap generalizations, i know, and for this i apologize) are derived in part from the gestalt of a bike much akin to this indy fab (an admittedly sub-par exemplification of this style):

http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/feb/yousse.jpg

so let's loose the flatcrown and go for something a little more straight blade.

Wow, I didn't even say anything about the little hand painted star on your quill stem and I got this response. :eek:

P.S. Baxetefer I don't care how important Ceya is or whatever. I still think those little "strengthening" connectors are a joke. **** he could be the president of the USA and say that.....guess what, he'd still be wrong.

And yeah I get sick of hearing how quill stems are "pimpin" and stuff like that when better/cheaper equipment is available. The SS/FG forum like it's quirkness and panache, but I just like the stuff that works the very best.

53-11,

You have every right to say what you will. Pres of the U.S.A .not.

I was showing what I was talking about but it is ok, he is not doing a lugged frame.

Breathe,53-11 ,, I am not into just bling and NJS but I use my bike(s).

I speak from experience..years of personal experience.

You say that they don't work, that should have been the end of your sentence.

The forum rules said no personal attacks . I don't do personal attacks, they are just plain stupid.

Just because I like classic stuff from when I started riding ....each his/her own.

The thread ask what do we want to see in the new frame so I posted my views.

Yes I agree I don't care how important Ceya! is around here, I don't think I am important.

You get sick about hearing about quill stems but why? I don't mine hearing about threadless even though I don't like or ride them . Everything has pros/cons.

I will help anybody acheive what they want in a ride(Tig,Lugged,Ti, Steel, Carbon). It is your ride and choice to pick anything you want.

Guys who have my back,

At ease! People have a right to say what they want as i spent years defending. If that what 53-11 believes then its ok. Life goes on..again breathe.


If you want this to go off line 53-11 pm or email me your thoughts , I will give you mine. trust me!

Kogswell,

I apologize to you for this going beyond the realm of what the topic supposed to mean.

S/F,
CEYA!

C&C ,

Nice bike there! I think that bike is cool.

S/F<
CEYA!

Kogswell,

I apologize to you for this going beyond the realm of what the topic supposed to mean.



Collaboration is a key element in our design process. We talk, think, rinse and repeat.

And there are indications that it works for many of the people involved; I know that I learn and it appears that others do too.

The thing to remember about Kogswell design is that we take different paths. If we make a TIG'd this year we'll make a lugged frame next year. So all comments, topical or not, are taken in and processed. The good ideas float to the top.

So comment and fight and discuss and be right and be mindful of what my grandmother used to say:

Personal remarks are never in good taste.

Wow, I didn't even say anything about the little hand painted star on your quill stem and I got this response.
Off Topic:

Ignorance again. But we are used to you talking and not walking by now. Yeah, that was a real picture of my bike, not a manufacturer shot though. People know I ride, and ride well. Where's your gear? Waiting to be "ctrl+c/ctrl+v" off the Fuji website, that's where.
Enough here - if you want to talk with the big kids, you gotta walk with them to. I'd love to carry this conversation further, so PM me if so. Otherwise, I apologize to the real riders here for interrupting.

Back On Topic:

Collaboration is a key element in our design process. We talk, think, rinse and repeat.

And there are indications that it works for many of the people involved; I know that I learn and it appears that others do too.

The thing to remember about Kogswell design is that we take different paths. If we make a TIG'd we'll make a lugged frame next year. So all comments, topical or not, are taken in and processed. The good ideas float to the top.

So comment and fight and discuss and be right and be mindful of what my grandmother used to say:

Personal remarks are never in good taste.

Kogswell,

Yes i agree 120% but 53-11 went beyond the scope of discussing the topic. I will defend my point even if pro or con. this is how topics get off line and kills a thread.

FG/SS has suffered this fate and is cleaning up itself.

Remember you have control of what floats to the top.

S/F,
CEYA!

WRT stems:

I agree with Ceya that a quill is much easier to adjust than threadless; just loosen the bolt and raise or lower the stem. Easy.

But, I personally prefer threadless because I believe it is a stiffer design, and because I use carbon forks. Most carbon forks come with threadless steerers.

As far as adjustments with threadless; as 53-11 pointed out, I can just flip the stem, or have different stem/bars set-ups. Yes, more of a pain in the ass, but its works for me.

Track stem + track drops. Road stem + road bars. I just switch up the set-up before I head out.

Another vote for threadless on a track bike.
I have a couple different stems from my road bike, and plan to have at least 3 different setups ready to go at a moments notice.
1) Track drops
2) pursuit setup with aerobars
3) road setup with brakes installed

So far I have 75 head and 74 seat. And I'm waiting for consensus a BB drop dimension.

Angles should really depend on the size of each frame. 75 head and 74 seat might be good for frame bigger than 55, but I think 73.5~74 head and 75 seat would be better for 51 and 53.
Something along the line of IF crown jewel, but cheaper, would be really good.

Angles should really depend on the size of each frame. 75 head and 74 seat might be good for frame bigger than 55, but I think 73.5~74 head and 75 seat would be better for 51 and 53.


speaking as a person who rides small (<50cm) frames, i prefer a steeper head angle, a short top tube and toe overlap. using a slacker head angle on smaller frames always seems to me like a concession to avoid toe overlap, which is a nonissue on the track (and nothing to really be afraid of on the street, IMO).

speaking as a person who rides small (<50cm) frames, i prefer a steeper head angle, a short top tube and toe overlap. using a slacker head angle on smaller frames always seems to me like a concession to avoid toe overlap, which is a nonissue on the track (and nothing to really be afraid of on the street, IMO).

Thanks for that bit of input.

I had just read the previous posting and was thinking that people who ride shorter frames want the same geometry as those who don't.

This frame, like many Kogswell frames, will have more than one fork. One will be for track use. And another will be for those of us who like low-trail, zero TCO cycling.

Kogswell - the fork (IS) the frame

LOL@ some of these responses.

I still stand by my previous statements that threadless is just plain better and cheaper and that BB "connectors" don't help.

speaking as a person who rides small (<50cm) frames, i prefer a steeper head angle, a short top tube and toe overlap. using a slacker head angle on smaller frames always seems to me like a concession to avoid toe overlap, which is a nonissue on the track (and nothing to really be afraid of on the street, IMO).

I ride 51 ST 51.5 TT, and it has 73 head tube, 75 seat, and it's got prenty of toe overlap. you'll get crank overlap as well as tyre/down tube clearance issues if head angle is too steep on smaller frames, so you'll need to steepen seat angle as well to compensate. And 76 seat angle is probably the max you want to go on stock frames. I would say go with 74 head 75 seat on 51 and 53, especially if you intend to make forks with tight clearance.

*hits "SPAM!" ...*

I ride 51 ST 51.5 TT, and it has 73 head tube, 75 seat, and it's got prenty of toe overlap. you'll get crank overlap as well as tyre/down tube clearance issues if head angle is too steep on smaller frames, so you'll need to steepen seat angle as well to compensate. And 76 seat angle is probably the max you want to go on stock frames. I would say go with 74 head 75 seat on 51 and 53, especially if you intend to make forks with tight clearance.

fair enough. the last frame i owned were a 50c-c Cannondale with 75 deg. head and seat angles. i sold that and now own a slightly smaller Spicer alloy frame with 74deg. head and seat angles. that's what i like.

So how much will this cost? I'll take the hub too since I build my own wheels.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?????????????

Any news on how this model's progressing?

Any news on how this model's progressing?

I just got a sample and I'll post a photo when it comes back from paint.

The hubs got signed off and we'll see them and wheels in about 45 days.

*hi5*

I just got a sample and I'll post a photo when it comes back from paint.

The hubs got signed off and we'll see them and wheels in about 45 days.

Just in time for Valentine's day. Hot diggity.

I'm kinda lookin forward to this little machine.

What was the final decision on the BB drop? And about variable ST/HT angles for different sizes? This seems like a pretty nice frame for pursuits (not super-aggressive, but just fast enough to push for 4km).

Maybe I'll skip the custom thing and get a kogswell?

*wanders by ...*

Any updates? I'm looking forward to this one.

^^^ 2nd

This might be the pimp track bike of 2006 (crosses fingers)

Waiting for update. :)

I hope the bottom bracket is high enough, my buddy keeps asking me to go up a ride that steep track in Ontario...

I hope 'we' (bikeforum members) get at least a 10-20% discount on the first batch :D

A lot of hoping...

I hope the bottom bracket is high enough, my buddy keeps asking me to go up a ride that steep track in Ontario...

138m length, 50 degree banking ... if you do manage a trip, post it on the forums. There's always one group or another of people from Toronto planning trips down to Forest. It'd be fun to have a BF meet-up there.

http://www.forestcityvelodrome.ca/index.html

138m length, 50 degree banking ... if you do manage a trip, post it on the forums. There's always one group or another of people from Toronto planning trips down to Forest. It'd be fun to have a BF meet-up there.

http://www.forestcityvelodrome.ca/index.html

Will let you know. Maybe in a month or so. Need to get in at least a little shape. :)
Maybe I'll be sporting the new Kogswell... :p

Valentine's Day has come and gone. Any updates...

I was seduced by an Italian frame.

Boogers.

Waiting for update.

I've been up to my ears with the new Porteur/Randonneur
model.

I will be back in track bike mode soon.

Kogswell's website does have this teaser, which I noticed today:

"Another new model coming in June is our next generation fixee.

This is our fourth fixed gear model since we started in 2001. Its design was a collaborative effort done with the help of track cyclists on The Bike Forums.

The result is not surprising: steep angles, a high bottom bracket and round fork blades. Back to basics. Back to the track. The BackTrack."

New kogswell track frame (http://www.kogswell.com/images/cheapTRACK.gif)

I'm gonna guess since those are the same braze-ons as earlier in the thread, its not an updated image.


Of course, I've been wrong before.

we need this frame. I can't wait myself to see what you come up with.

The June date disappointed me. I was hoping to have the opportunity to sell my current bike before the season and already have this one built up... :(

Cogswell, almost June, any updates? Pricing? Discount :) ? Thanks.

Yes, please update!

*wanders by*

Any info? Well, ****. Guess I'll check again next month.

This might be the pimp track bike of 2006 (crosses fingers)
Wanna update your year? Let's have a contest while we're waiting. Ok everone pick a year.

Wanna update your year? Let's have a contest while we're waiting. Ok everone pick a year.

I am so sorry.

I really thought I'd have something by now.

I've been pulled away into other projects.

What a wheezer I am.