Foo - How would you grade it?

I assigned my class a paper, and the syllabus says this:


Guidelines: Times New Roman font, double spaced, font size 12, default margins, default character spacing. Failure to follow these guidelines will result in a score of 0.

Basically my idea was for them not to try to make a 1 page paper look like a 2 page paper by playing with the formatting. Almost everyone followed the guidelines to perfection. That is, everyone except for one person. This person used a different font, and it is one of those fonts that's bigger than Times New Roman. What's weird is that the paper would have been plenty long enough even without the large font (although I haven't read it yet, so I don't know how good it is). I'm guessing it was just a stupid mistake.

So what would you do? Would you give a 0, or just take off points?

The paper is worth 48 of my 178 points, and those 178 points are 1/3 of their final overall grade in the class.

Is a 0 a life lesson, or just plain mean?

If you want to scare the student into thinking s/he will get a 0 go ahead, but actually doing so is harsh. Considering the paper meets the intended goal (of content length), I would only give the student a warning and grade the paper on its content.

I once had a really anal Sociology professor who gave me a B+ as my final grade although I'd scored nearly 100 on the mid-term and an A+ on the final paper (the only A+ I ever received on a paper in any class). My weekly journals I was supposed to turn in were handed in a day late and she docked a whole grade letter from my final grade, because of it. Those stupid journals were merely personal notes and observations during a field project. I still resent her to this day.

Suppose for a moment...

One student writes on a Mac using MS Word following your guidelines precisely and finds his paper is slightly too short. He transfers it to his friend's PC and suddenly, the paper's just right. (At least on older versions, double space meant a 12 point font would take 24 points, or 1/3 inch per line on a Mac, and on a PC, lines would take up about 10-20% more space. Haven't rigorously checked recent versions.) Would this student be given a zero? What if a student only had A4 paper, and thus had a different page size? Would you force your students to use the exact same version of the same word processor on the same operating system using the same printer at the same settings? (On some older inkjet and dot matrix printers, the print quality setting could affect line spacing.)

I think a zero is way too harsh if the point of the course is not the ability to churn out a piece of text that perfectly matches a list of technical specifications. A warning would be more reasonable. Perhaps a slight penalty along with the warning.

How about a 0 with a chance to make it up with another paper?

I usually hate when a professor offers liberal amounts of extra credit at the end of the semester so the slacker who's been sliding by can just do some extra work and get a halfway decent grade in the end, but we all make mistakes...

Call them to your office or speak to them after class. Tell them that by your rules you must give them a 0. When they start crying or getting mad, tell them they can make up the points by doing a 2nd paper (which must be different) and they MUST follow the rules for that one.

That way you give them the point (not being a meany), but give them the life lesson as well (by making them do double the work).

I voted, "yes", but, then again, rules are made to be broken, according to some....

I'd go with KT and Jerseysbest's suggestions, if it were me.

Strict rules are plain mean and serve no other purpose than to mess with people. They do no good at all in any way. A better approach would've been to tell the students before, that using "tricks" to make a paper seem longer will be taken into account when the paper is graded. And just leave it at that.
But a zero for failing to meet "soup nazi"-like rules is incredibly mean.

I don't like it, I would rather hope for like 20 points off automatically and then another

20 for each day he/she doesnt correct it. Haha my history teacher had a teacher that

said if the staple on a paper wasnt 45º's he would take off a point for each degree off!

Eh, they completed the paper. Making them redo the paper entirely with a different topic is unnecessary. It smacks of power-tripping and it doesn't teach anything. If they have to resubmit, make them change the fonts to your specifications and tell them if it happens again, they will get a 0.

Haha my history teacher had a teacher that said if the staple on a paper wasnt 45º's he would take off a point for each degree off!
Student: How come I lost 90 points? My staple's at a 45 degree angle.

Teacher: Because your staple is supposed to be at a 45 degree angle in the other direction!

Student: But you didn't specify that. And I checked Susie's paper, and her staple was at 46 degrees from parallel to the edge of the paper and you didn't penalize her! How come I get penalized for following directions and she doesn't get penalized for not following directions?

Eh, they completed the paper. Making them redo the paper entirely with a different topic is unnecessary. It smacks of power-tripping and it doesn't teach anything. If they have to resubmit, make them change the fonts to your specifications and tell them if it happens again, they will get a 0.
And what lesson would they learn? That all rules, stated, printed or otherwise don't really need to be followed? I still like the make them do another paper.....you teach them the lesson of following the rules, still make it "bad enough" that the lesson sticks. And....they still have an "out" to not lose the points.

This is my first semester teaching, so obviously I'm learning here. If I had to do it all over again (and I will next semester) I'd change the rule to half off or something like that. Maybe that's a good compromise here.

The thing is, a rule is a rule. If I'm writing an article for a journal and it's not in the right format, it's not going to get published. Some publishers might give me the chance to correct the format, but others would probably just toss my article to the side without ever looking at it again. I mean, if someone is too stupid to follow the rules, how good can the article really be? Say I apply to some grad school and don't follow the rules for the personal statement. Do you think I'll get a second chance? In the real world mistakes can be very costly.

On one hand, if I bend the rule it sends the message that breaking rules is no big deal. I'll essentially be rewarding it. On the other hand, the rule is pretty harsh. I have no desire to go on a power trip. At the same time, I went through college and followed all the rules, and it pissed me off to see a lot of people around me doing things the wrong way and getting rewarded for it. It's unfair to everyone who does things right.

I see people pushing the limits all the time. At least 3 kids asked me if they could e-mail me the paper. One even gave me an elaborate excuse. I should have said no, but I gave them a break and said yes, if they sent it by the end of the day. Here it is a day later and none of them have sent the paper yet.

Give an inch, they take a mile.

I wonder how many that voted for yes do rolling stops at stop signs ;)

uh ... well.. if the paper would be long enough anyway just tell him to check his font next time. what's the big deal? i wouldn't want you as my professor. you think of taking off points for no reason.

if their paper was long enough, then it is probably a mistake

nabbing them on a technicality seems like a strange way to teach, why don't you focus on the writing

Is a 0 a life lesson...?
yes. and the lesson learned will be that teachers are full of sh*t. don't start off your teaching career by being a prick.

I don't like it, I would rather hope for like 20 points off automatically and then another

20 for each day he/she doesnt correct it. Haha my history teacher had a teacher that

said if the staple on a paper wasnt 45º's he would take off a point for each degree off!


Now I could see a Trig. or Geometry teacher doing that but a History teacher?

I'd give him points off for screwing up the formatting. I wouldn't fail him though, that's just freaking mean.

It happens, but maybe show him how to verify what font, size, and spacing he is currently using, so he has no excuse from now on.

A smackdown like giving him a 0 will only piss him off.

If, after formatting it right, his paper meets your length requirements, then points off is fair since he deviated from the rules...if it's too short, then he gets either a chance to make a seconds paper that is right, or a 0.

Be fair, but firm.

I wonder how many that voted for yes do rolling stops at stop signs ;)

Man, I freakin' HATE that! One of my many traffic pet peeves, don'tchaknow.;) Of course, that's better than flying through a stop sign....

Give an inch, they take a mile.

Being a student now, I'd say this is too true. The kids talk. In classes where kids get away with breaking the rules, I always hear them saying things like, "Oh yea, he doesn't care if you turn it in a day late." and they take advantage of the teacher at every step. They don't get anything out of the class and remain just as stupid as they were when they came in. I see it EVERY DAY. I bust my ass and these clowns get almost as good a grade. Don't be that teacher.

With that said, I think a 0 would be harsh, but at least take points off or make them redo it.

Maybe tell him he needs to resubmit it with the proper font ...-cause of the importance of that rule based life lesson thing that you were emphasizing.

I've decided to just take a good deal of points off. I think the lesson will still be learned.

Silly me- I thought saying I'd give a 0 for not following the guidelines would scare everyone off. I never thought someone would actually mess it up. I'll definitely change that for next semester. Looks like I learned a lesson as well.

I said yes.

The terms of the agreement are just that. The student knowingly chose to violate those terms, albeit slightly, and should therefore suffer the consequences for said violateions.

Situation: Said student is 'cut some slack' on this.

Fast forward 10 years... This former student is now working as a defense contractor. The contract specifies that a part is made to a specific tolerance or from a specific grade of material. Knowing from past experiences that it's okay to cut corners if he feels like it, he does so. Now, said part fails. Maybe this is part of a guided missle, maybe this missle does not track its intended target, maybe this missle does a 180 and returns to point of origin and sinks the battleship from which it was launched Killing all on board.

Okay, its an exterme example. But when you set guidelines for expected behavior from people. It's just that... behavior which you expect. Ithe guidelines were clear and concise in their terms. To not give a zero would be to reward that bad behavior and set up expectations in the student for continued cocessions.

Yes, I roll the stop at times and should I get caught, I'd deserve a ticket. I'd be in the wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

Is it possible there's some technical reason the prof wanted that specific font style/size and double-spaced? I'm just thinking out loud here. Maybe he's using optical character recognition that's set up for Times New Roman, size 12, double-spaced, etc., to scan the papers into some application that checks for spelling and grammer errors. If that's what's going on, I could see the need to have them uniform. If somene accidentally submitted it in a different font or font size, give 'em a chance to resubmit it within 24 hours without penalty.

Im a student, if a teacher did that to me, i would think that is a real ******* thing to do. I know thats not your intent, but thats often how it comes across. Like others said, technical factors can be present that you may not be aware of.

I would talk to the student, ask them why this is the way it is. Maybe they have simply forgotten and you can make an offer like 10pts off if they can give you a copy tommorow that meets the reqired parameters. That is a fair thing

TO give a zero shows no acknowledgement of their understanding of the given topic, and I just dont find that at all fair.

I said yes.

The terms of the agreement are just that. The student knowingly chose to violate those terms, albeit slightly, and should therefore suffer the consequences for said violateions.

Situation: Said student is 'cut some slack' on this.

Fast forward 10 years... This former student is now working as a defense contractor. The contract specifies that a part is made to a specific tolerance or from a specific grade of material. Knowing from past experiences that it's okay to cut corners if he feels like it, he does so. Now, said part fails. Maybe this is part of a guided missle, maybe this missle does not track its intended target, maybe this missle does a 180 and returns to point of origin and sinks the battleship from which it was launched Killing all on board.

Okay, its an exterme example. But when you set guidelines for expected behavior from people. It's just that... behavior which you expect. Ithe guidelines were clear and concise in their terms. To not give a zero would be to reward that bad behavior and set up expectations in the student for continued cocessions.

Yes, I roll the stop at times and should I get caught, I'd deserve a ticket. I'd be in the wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

i think he would learn about that in engineering class far more thoroughly than in history. so what's teh point in teaching it to him in history.

This is my first semester teaching, so obviously I'm learning here. If I had to do it all over again (and I will next semester) I'd change the rule to half off or something like that. Maybe that's a good compromise here.

The thing is, a rule is a rule. If I'm writing an article for a journal and it's not in the right format, it's not going to get published. Some publishers might give me the chance to correct the format, but others would probably just toss my article to the side without ever looking at it again. I mean, if someone is too stupid to follow the rules, how good can the article really be? Say I apply to some grad school and don't follow the rules for the personal statement. Do you think I'll get a second chance? In the real world mistakes can be very costly.

On one hand, if I bend the rule it sends the message that breaking rules is no big deal. I'll essentially be rewarding it. On the other hand, the rule is pretty harsh. I have no desire to go on a power trip. At the same time, I went through college and followed all the rules, and it pissed me off to see a lot of people around me doing things the wrong way and getting rewarded for it. It's unfair to everyone who does things right.

I see people pushing the limits all the time. At least 3 kids asked me if they could e-mail me the paper. One even gave me an elaborate excuse. I should have said no, but I gave them a break and said yes, if they sent it by the end of the day. Here it is a day later and none of them have sent the paper yet.

Give an inch, they take a mile.


exactly how does not following one rule make the article bad?

i really would hate to have you as a teacher. you don't even have sensible logic.

making a mistake on one TINY thing makes the whole paper bad? what are you on?


also, this is a history class not a compostion class. i think you should concentrate your efforts on teaching history. if he knows the history he should get a good grade.

also for stacy.. there are technical writing classes that deal with these sort of issues.

chulo, teach the class you were paid to teach and stop being such a nimrod.

it's a rule that you shouldn't have made in the first place. i have never seen such a hatefilled rule. you seem to be one of those teachers that is more interested in making sensless rules instead of teaching the subject. why would you even make such a rule? why would you stifle someone's future just for not using the right font when they may know the subject quite well? there was no sound reason to make such a rule in the first place. he's not there to learn to be a defense contractor, he's not there to learn hwo to make a composition, he's there to learn history.

so teach him history, not some lesson on how to destroy someone's semester (perhaps life if he's on financial aid) because they didn't use the right font.

if you're gonna make rules make sure there's a reason for them in the first place. make sure you know what you're trying to teach.

taht's another thing i don't think you professors realize. getting a bad grade doesn't just teach that person a lesson. it could very well end their going to college.

again, make sure you teach people what was meant to be taught in the class. i jsut do not see how degrading the paper like that can teach the person anything other than that some people trully do need to be avoided. there's no academic merit at all for punishing this person for something as tiny as the font used.

he will be taught accuracy in science, engineering, and technical writing classes. history class is not the place for that.

Regardless of the class being taught or the life situation, the rules are the rules. The student knew going in to it what the ramifications would be for violating the rules.
If OP is having misgivings about enforcing the guidelines, then NEXT time perhaps the guidelines and penalties should be relaxed. To let the student off light would invalidate the work of all the students who chose to follow the guidelines and enforce in them a feeling of unfairness. Which is worse: To have one student pissed because you set forth a criteria and penalties or have 20 students pissed because you showed partiality to one who chose not to follow the guidelines and you went soft on him?

It's purely principalistic. There is no decission to make really clear cut. If twenty could follow the guidelines, why couldn't he?

the person who was senseless is the person who should be punished.

chulo was the fool here because he'd made a rule with no academic merit. he should be the one to pay.

Regardless of the class being taught or the life situation, the rules are the rules. The student knew going in to it what the ramifications would be for violating the rules.
If OP is having misgivings about enforcing the guidelines, then NEXT time perhaps the guidelines and penalties should be relaxed. To let the student off light would invalidate the work of all the students who chose to follow the guidelines and enforce in them a feeling of unfairness. Which is worse: To have one student pissed because you set forth a criteria and penalties or have 20 students pissed because you showed partiality to one who chose not to follow the guidelines and you went soft on him?

It's purely principalistic. There is no decission to make really clear cut. If twenty could follow the guidelines, why couldn't he?

mistakes happen. it's too high a price to pay for a simple mistake. if all his professors acted like this he'd probably end up afraid to do anything.

if someone makes a stupid rule who should pay? the person who broke it or the fool who made it?

Have you been burned before by not being thorough, MERTON?

Chulo, don't give in to crappy students. Who cares if they don't like you? They'll probably remember you better because of it and may actually learn something from the mistake. If not, that's their problem. (I corrected the last sentence where I had originally wrote "there" instead of "their." I got a lot of crap about the differences between the two by my 10th grade teacher, Ms. Hunter. I hated her, but I can't deny that I learned something.)



this is dangerous water for you. if you gave me a 50 out of one hundred just for not putting the right font i would probably take it personally, as harrasment, and take your butt to court.

You would take him to court MERTON? You are what's wrong with this country. The rule was stated right in the instructions and has nothing to do with harassing the student. You would have no case and no class.

I guess your position makes sense, though, seeing as you can't find the shift key and all.

I said yes. It would appear that you are teaching an advanced level class, given that they all followed the format, and that your format is very strict. You need to tell your students exactly what is expected, which you did. They need to meet those requirements, which this one didn't. If you wanted slack in the rules, then you should have not made them so strict. Now, if you just take points off, then you get a reputation for being too nice, which is not a bad thing, but it also leads to disrespect. It also sends a message to the other kids that you mean business, if you give this one the zero. I just finished my student teaching, and I taught woodshop. I gave safety tests that had to be passed with a 100%, or they couldn't work. No one believed me, until someone missed one question and I called it a failure. After that, the kids took it very seriously.

I think the understanding he has of the topic will influence his life much more than that time back in school where a teacher let him make up a paper. There is a place for format rules like this, history is not it. Yes of course there is reason, obviously if the paper is written in size 16 font with bearclaw font, triple spaced, 2" margins, you take off pts. But for something like arial fond instead of times new Roman...
You will end up taking off 50pts for a font, and 20 pts for missing a core element of the actual paper.

i hadn't read the whole post at that point. i edited my post to take away the court thing.

and yes.. i've been burned for not being thorough. i got a zero on a quiz for just writing the equation and not putting the numbers in the equation. did i learn anything from it? yeah. i hate science. that's what i learned.

also, there is a way out for you. you could just tell everyone that the rule was unreasonable and make no one follow it.

Have you been burned before by not being thorough, MERTON?

Chulo, don't give in to crappy students. Who cares if they don't like you? They'll probably remember you better because of it and may actually learn something from the mistake. If not, that's their problem. (I corrected the last sentence where I had originally wrote "there" instead of "their." I got a lot of crap about the differences between the two by my 10th grade teacher, Ms. Hunter. I hated her, but I can't deny that I learned something.)




You would take him to court MERTON? You are what's wrong with this country. The rule was stated right in the instructions and has nothing to do with harassing the student. You would have no case and no class.

I guess your position makes sense, though, seeing as you can't find the shift key and all.

why do people like you always find the littlest thing to pick on? what value is it? and why would i waste effort pressing a shift key for a net forum? it makes no sense. this isn't a formal place.

also.. think of it like this...

a zero on a big paper will probably fail this person.

so next semester he will have to retake the class. and he will spend an entire semester retaking a class just to learn how to use the right font.

again. the person who made the mistake should pay. you made the mistake in making a bad rule. you(chulo) should pay for your mistake.

One policy for papers which I liked was the one for my AP history I class last year....
We had 3 papers to write in the year.
For every day late, its 20pts off. This includes saturday and sunday.
He gives basic format guidelines, you can choose between times new roman or arial for a font, or anything that is similar. As long as he can read it real easily and its not obnoxious.
If you you get something major wrong, you can always turn it in the next day for 20pts off. Or if its something minor, he will just take off a few pts.

exactly how does not following one rule make the article bad?

It dosen't make it bad, it just makes it invalid.


i really would hate to have you as a teacher. you don't even have sensible logic.

That is your opinion. If you are out in the working world and your boss tells you he wants something done a certian way, and you choose to do it another and you get fired... is that wrong?



making a mistake on one TINY thing makes the whole paper bad? what are you on?

It's not a 'mistake' it's a disregard... If the grade was important to the student then it is his responsibility to PROOF the document BEFORE submission



this is dangerous water for you. if you gave me a 50 out of one hundred just for not putting the right font i would probably take it personally, as harrasment, and take your butt to court.

Take it any way you want. If the rules are fairly applied to everyone, how is that harassmennt?



also, this is a history class not a compostion class.

So?



ithink you should concentrate your efforts on teaching history. if he knows the history he should get a good grade.
When you are a prof, then you can determine what is iimportant. Sadly, you're not. You are a student. Your job is to complete the work the prof's assign, as they assign it.



also for stacy.. there are technical writing classes that deal with these sort of issues.
I'm sure there are, but how is that relevant?



chulo, teach the class you were paid to teach and stop being such a nimrod.
How is Chulo appling the rules fairly being a 'nimrod'. Ever hear of 'Personal Responsibility'?



it's a rule that you shouldn't have made in the first place. i have never seen such a hatefilled rule. you seem to be one of those teachers that is more interested in making sensless rules instead of teaching the subject. why would you even make such a rule? why would you stifle someone's future just for not using the right font when they may know the subject quite well? there was no sound reason to make such a rule in the first place. he's not there to learn to be a defense contractor, he's not there to learn hwo to make a composition, he's there to learn history.
:cry: :cry:



so teach him history, not some lesson on how to destroy someone's semester (perhaps life if he's on financial aid) because they didn't use the right font.
:cry: :cry:



if you're gonna make rules make sure there's a reason for them in the first place. make sure you know what you're trying to teach.
How does seting and enforcing an arbritary rule have any bearing on how he can teach the subject?



taht's another thing i don't think you professors realize. getting a bad grade doesn't just teach that person a lesson. it could very well end their going to college.
:cry: :cry: Follow the rules!



again, make sure you teach people what was meant to be taught in the class. i jsut do not see how degrading the paper like that can teach the person anything other than that some people trully do need to be avoided. there's no academic merit at all for punishing this person for something as tiny as the font used.

he will be taught accuracy in science, engineering, and technical writing classes. history class is not the place for that.
:cry: :cry:

I wonder how many of the people Stacey just quoted have ever taught. If you start to become slack, think of what is going to happen in the long run. What is next, letting them hand it in a day late because they're too busy? I'll agree that it is a harsh rule, one that I would not make, but stick with it for now, then change it for next time. I would rather have one pissed off student then a whole class trying to bend the rules. The best way to teach is to be as objective as possible, in every situation. Bending a rule opens you up to being subjective, which can led to bad things.

Eh, I hope this kid ends up in charge of some of your finances and makes a little mistake. Like, say, mistakenly putting the decimal point a little further to the left.

Or maybe he mistakenly made the incision a little too far to the right and, oops! You dead!

Damn little mistakes. :rolleyes:

It dosen't make it bad, it just makes it invalid.

being invalid is bad aparently. what? is this a grade of invalidness instead of a bad grade?



That is your opinion. If you are out in the working world and your boss tells you he wants something done a certian way, and you choose to do it another and you get fired... is that wrong?

no. but technically the student is the boss since he's the on writing the checks. are you even shure i would work in such a place?



It's not a 'mistake' it's a disregard... If the grade was important to the student then it is his responsibility to PROOF the document BEFORE submission

you'll have to prove that it was disregard. how was it not a mistake? how did he end up using the wrong font?



Take it any way you want. If the rules are fairly applied to everyone, how is that harassmennt?

you read that before i edited apprently


So?


When you are a prof, then you can determine what is iimportant. Sadly, you're not. You are a student. Your job is to complete the work the prof's assign, as they assign it.

neither are you. so why are you deciding what he should do as much as i am decided what he should do since doing what i am doing is so wrong? (why are you telling me that what i'm doing is wrong when you're doing the same thing?





How is Chulo appling the rules fairly being a 'nimrod'. Ever hear of 'Personal Responsibility'?

his being a nimrod comes in the form of hunting for failure instead of learning.


:cry: :cry:


:cry: :cry:


How does seting and enforcing an arbritary rule have any bearing on how he can teach the subject?

so why would he set rules at all? i mean, they obviously have no bearing on the quality of education... right? it's just an arbitrary rule, just there to be a rule. jeeze. i guess rules really don't matter at all. of course.. that's why we should have them!

why would he even make a rule if it didn't help teach the subject?


gdstgwertew


:cry: :cry: Follow the rules!


:cry: :cry:



my message is too short. wah.

Eh, I hope this kid ends up in charge of some of your finances and makes a little mistake. Like, say, mistakenly putting the decimal point a little further to the left.

Or maybe he mistakenly made the incision a little too far to the right and, oops! You dead!

Damn little mistakes. :rolleyes:


you don't think he would learn that in accounting class or doctor class (whatever they're called)... why do you think that a history teacher should be the one to teach this person how to be accurate in doing bills or surgery?

1. Don't be so extreme. It's a font ferchrissakes. Dock points maybe, but 0?

2. I prefer the concept of a "2 strikes" policy. Anybody can make a mistake once, especially for something like this. If it's so important for you to have rules followed that strictly, I hope that you've made this very clear to your students. Maybe use this as an example, but I honestly think a 0 is harsh.

3. You want to teach somebody lessons about life with this? Sorry, but it's more likely than anything else the student will just think you're power tripping. Sure, keep students in line. Just don't lose perspective.

Just my two cents but....I would ask the student why it was in "xyz" font" maybe for some reason they couldn't install/have Time new roman (doubtful) but maybe. Other wise, I would at the very least deduct points for not following the guidelines. Life is tough, why should school or college not be also.

you don't think he would learn that in accounting class or doctor class (whatever they're called)... why do you think that a history teacher should be the one to teach this person how to be accurate in doing bills or surgery?

Mabye I just see it as getting an all around education. You will have to do papers where you need to follow specific instructions in almost EVERY CLASS you take. History, English, Math, etc. By forcing students to adhere to the instructions, the teacher is doing a favor for the student.

I have already said this, but I do agree that the 0 was too much in the first place. However, the student should have points docked as they were given specific instructions and failed to meet them.

In mine and most other schools, there are open computer labs where students can do work. Not having the font installed on their computer should have prompted the student to either seek another source to type up the paper, or approach the teacher with the problem and get an approved solution.

This is a paper done with a computer? Right?

Take him aside.
Hand him the syllabus and the paper.
Ask him to look at both and ask him if he would like to make any changes.
If he says yes, give him 24 hours.
If he says no, give him a 0

exactly how does not following one rule make the article bad?

i really would hate to have you as a teacher. you don't even have sensible logic.

making a mistake on one TINY thing makes the whole paper bad? what are you on?

I never personally said one mistake makes a paper bad. However, failing to follow rules does give people a bad impression, and bad impressions can be costly. If you don't like the journal example, try a job application. Say you write a resume in some unprofessional font and print it out on pink paper. Even if you have the skills to do the job your resume probably won't even be read. Empolyers will take that as a sign that you can't follow rules, and why would they want to hire someone like that? Small details are very important. You have to learn to read fine print. That's life.



also, this is a history class not a compostion class. i think you should concentrate your efforts on teaching history. if he knows the history he should get a good grade.

Actually, it's not a history class. I see why you want to defend people who have poor reading comprehension, because they're one of your own.



chulo, teach the class you were paid to teach and stop being such a nimrod.

I don't see how I'm being a nimrod. I haven't really even made a final decision yet. If I'm thinking about it and trying to do the right thing, how does that make me a nimrod?



it's a rule that you shouldn't have made in the first place. i have never seen such a hatefilled rule. you seem to be one of those teachers that is more interested in making sensless rules instead of teaching the subject. why would you even make such a rule? why would you stifle someone's future just for not using the right font when they may know the subject quite well? there was no sound reason to make such a rule in the first place. he's not there to learn to be a defense contractor, he's not there to learn hwo to make a composition, he's there to learn history.


Look, I already admitted that the rule was a mistake as far as how harsh the penalty is. However, setting basic format guidelines for a paper isn't harsh, and neither is expecting students to follow those guidelines.



so teach him history, not some lesson on how to destroy someone's semester (perhaps life if he's on financial aid) because they didn't use the right font.

if you're gonna make rules make sure there's a reason for them in the first place. make sure you know what you're trying to teach.

taht's another thing i don't think you professors realize. getting a bad grade doesn't just teach that person a lesson. it could very well end their going to college.

again, make sure you teach people what was meant to be taught in the class. i jsut do not see how degrading the paper like that can teach the person anything other than that some people trully do need to be avoided. there's no academic merit at all for punishing this person for something as tiny as the font used.

he will be taught accuracy in science, engineering, and technical writing classes. history class is not the place for that.


Again, it's not history. Also, learning to write should be a part of every class. Employers look for writing skills in most professions. This is a basic gen ed course, and writing is supposed to be part of the deal.

Honestly, I don't see how 1 little course could stop someone from going to college, and failing this paper wouldn't necessarily mean the student would fail the course. If people are careless, don't follow the rules, and can't find a way to make up for it, then maybe they don't belong in college in the first place.

I wouldn't call him a slacker, I bet this was an oversight, we all do it, heck, I just freakin skipped a question on a 20 question test. But rules is rules... 0 is harsh, like I said before, offer to have him make it up.

I voted Yes, but I would not hold anything against you if you handed the paper back to the student and told them they have 24hrs to return the paper to you in the correct format as requested.

The lab I work in had a grant sent back with this penalty. We had 8 rim sized packets to reprint and send back in one day. The restriction on the grant was a # of characters per inch and # of lines per inch we were of by 1/2 a line and 1 character both to small. (for grant you try to get as much in to the page limit as possible)

I wonder how many of the people Stacey just quoted have ever taught. If you start to become slack, think of what is going to happen in the long run. What is next, letting them hand it in a day late because they're too busy? I'll agree that it is a harsh rule, one that I would not make, but stick with it for now, then change it for next time. I would rather have one pissed off student then a whole class trying to bend the rules. The best way to teach is to be as objective as possible, in every situation. Bending a rule opens you up to being subjective, which can led to bad things.


Thank you.


By the way... they were all one person... MERTON

my message is too short. wah.


So you know Merton... I'm not debating wether ot not the rules & punishment were fair and reasonable. Personally, I happen to feel them a bit extreme. However, what I am debating is the fact that the rules/punishment were made clear ahead of the asignment and they were the same for everyone. Now, if this joker had a problem adhereing to the rules... like not having that font on his computer or not being able to load the font, then there should have been a discussion with the prof when the asignment was made.

What's up with this "the rules apply to everyone but me" attitude? You don't like the rules and opt not to play by them, then don't snivel when you get called for a foul.

Boo-frickin'-hoo :rolleyes: