Saw a bicyclist using dynamic lane positioning with center lane bias on a roadway on Saturday, and let me tell you, what a farcical experience that was to watch.
Some background info: Rainier Ave S in Seattle, a street with center turn lane, 1 lane of traffic each direction, wide bike lane, buffer zone and parking strips. 35mph means most are driving 40. Not a lot of cars parked on the side of the road, it was Saturday morning. I posted about this road in an A&S thread recently.
Rainier Ave S, saturday morning, I'm Bicycling from Seattle to Renton to go to an electronics superstore for a ridiculous price on a USB card reader. Ahead of me, I see a cyclist a couple hundred yards ahead. hard to tell, because the angular difference was soo slight, but it looked like he was riding in the center/right tire track of the traffic lane.
I'm thinking, 'that's odd, there's more clear, free pavement to the RIGHT of the traffic lane to ride in" and yet this bicyclist was ignoring all this real estate, in favor of the center of the traffic lane.
So, a little wierd. I'm watching the cyclist. I saw a lot of brake lights from cars as traffic pulled towards the bicyclist. It looked like the cars were having a difficult time negotiating the bicyclist, even though he would move right at times to let the cars pass, then dynamically position himself out in the traffic lane.
As I follow this guy for several miles, I see this pattern repeated over and over: Bicyclist in center of traffic lane, cars wheeling up on the guy, then slamming on the brakes, swerving around the guy as he moved onto the bike lane stripe, and generally causing uneven and what looked like disruptive, dangerous traffic flow.
So, I thought it was farcical to see a bicyclist in the middle of the traffic lane with more swept real estate to the right to ride in. And adding serious potential for a dangerous rear ending or chain reaction accident in the line of cars behind him having to negotiate with a bicyclist in the middle of the traffic lane attempting his "dance of the fireflys" dynamic lane positioning.
What a farce. I wonder if he read about 'dynamic lane positioning' on Bike Forums, and wanted to look less like a guy in a gorilla suit playing basketball, and more like a bicyclist unwittingly and recklessly endangering traffic flow with his 'DLP' techniques.
Bikepacker67
12-05-05, 06:45 AM
Is today sponsored by the word "farce"? :)
Jalopy
12-05-05, 06:50 AM
As I follow this guy for several miles, I see this pattern repeated over and over: Bicyclist in center of traffic lane, cars wheeling up on the guy, then slamming on the brakes, swerving around the guy as he moved onto the bike lane stripe, and generally causing uneven and what looked like disruptive, dangerous traffic flow.
I'm no fan of dynamic lane positioning theory but from your description, I'm more concerned with this guy's execution than the theory. It sounds like the problem was caused by this cyclist's slow response to traffic approaching from the rear.
Jalopy
Roody
12-05-05, 09:16 AM
Did you ask him what he was doing? Because if you didn't ask, you don't really know, do you. Quite possibly this rider never heard of "dynamic lane positioning; obviously he is not an accomplished practicioner.
I would suggest riding on the section of the road that best serves you at the given moment. If you, Bekologist, can't understand that, then study harder.
And if you study, study with somebody who knows what they are doing. Don't waste your time trying to learn by following behind somebody who knows even less than you do. (Unless he/she has a cute butt in spandex. :D) Christ it would piss me off if some other rider was following me and critiquing my form.
Bekologist
12-05-05, 09:50 AM
No, I strongly believe this cyclist was practicing an advanced version of 'dynamic lane positioning', he was not cute, I wasn't following him, he was ahead of me.
He was specifically positioning himself away from all the free real estate to the right of the vehicle lane , to ride oilpan alley, until cars approached from the rear, while he 'gracefully' and 'deftly' moved aside to let the traffic pass.
This had a ripple effect on the whole traffic pattern that looked disconcerting.
It didn't appear he was even aware of the chain of reaction in the cars behind him, I don't think bicyclists can see brake lights of the cars behind them.
sbhikes
12-05-05, 10:15 AM
I've seen this too and it does indeed look ridiculous. It also looks dangerous as the behavior isn't very clear. What the heck is he doing? is the first thought that pops into my mind. I'm sure nobody wondered what YOU were doing as I'm sure by your lane positioning it was quite obvious.
webist
12-05-05, 10:26 AM
I like to ride where I feel comfortable and safe. Frankly, that is rather seldom in the traffic lane. I do use them occasionally, primarily when they are unnoccupied or when necessary because of various conditions on the ride side of the road. Certainly I use them in order to reach a left turn lane and make a left. I also have a helmet mirror. This enables me to operate my bike without disturbing the riding or driving pleasure of others while enhancing the comfort and safety I mentioned earlier. I suppose I tend to be assertive when I need to be assertive and not when it adds nothing to my progress, comfort or safety.
I-Like-To-Bike
12-05-05, 10:49 AM
Christ it would piss me off if some other rider was following me and critiquing my form.
How 'bout if some other poster critiques and criticizes every cyclist on the forum and elsewhere in the world who doesn't agree with his convoluted ideas and opinions of proper form? Is it OK if you (alone)share those ideas and opinions?
scottmorrison99
12-05-05, 12:54 PM
I'm no fan of dynamic lane positioning theory but from your description, I'm more concerned with this guy's execution than the theory. It sounds like the problem was caused by this cyclist's slow response to traffic approaching from the rear.
Jalopy
I agree. It sounds more like he had no idea what he was doing rather than practicing ANY kind of traffic theory.
LCI_Brian
12-05-05, 01:42 PM
Did this cyclist look like a local or a tourist?
I-Like-To-Bike
12-05-05, 02:36 PM
I agree. It sounds more like he had no idea what he was doing rather than practicing ANY kind of traffic theory.
How could a motorist tell the difference between a cyclist who has an idea of the theory of dynamic lane positioning, and a no theory cyclist that is swerving back and forth from the center of lane to the right for no reason apparant to the motorist?
Roody
12-05-05, 03:10 PM
How 'bout if some other poster critiques and criticizes every cyclist on the forum and elsewhere in the world who doesn't agree with his convoluted ideas and opinions of proper form? Is it OK if you (alone)share those ideas and opinions?
You have got to be joking.
I-Like-To-Bike
12-05-05, 04:48 PM
You have got to be joking.
Nope. I mean you and your mentor.
Bekologist
12-05-05, 05:08 PM
Did this cyclist look like a local or a tourist?
He looked local, he was moving fast, and he looked like he thought he knew what he was doing.
It looked like he was doing the'graceful' dance of dynamic lane positioning we are ALL so familiar with, as described here in the A&S thread.
In fact, it looked like he was practicing his dynamic lane positioning according to every little nuance I've seen discussed in A&S.
It was a total joke, and looked completely hazardous.
Remember the roadway conditions, we aren't talking about a NOL here.
Brad M
12-05-05, 05:15 PM
I can feel the universe imploding as we speak.
Bekologist
12-05-05, 05:43 PM
Whether the universe implodes or not, this one cyclist helped to prove to me, in front of my very eyes, that 'dynamic lane positioning' as advanced here in the A&S thread to be complete and utter hooey.
To ride in the center of a traffic lane when there is MORE real estate to the right of the traffic lane dedicated to bicycle travel is antivehicular, anti productive to the even flow of traffic and patently unwise and unnecessary.
This cyclist showed me the 'DLP' technique, of riding in the center the traffic lane on a high speed roadway, when there are well designed shoulders, bike lanes, WOLs or electric mobility cooridors, is total and utter BS.
I don't know who started that rumor about DLP on highspeed roadways with ample blacktop for cyclists, but I'm saying it here,
It's baloney.
Jalopy
12-05-05, 06:16 PM
To ride in the center of a traffic lane when there is MORE real estate to the right of the traffic lane dedicated to bicycle travel is antivehicular, anti productive to the even flow of traffic and patently unwise and unnecessary.
This cyclist showed me the 'DLP' technique, of riding in the center the traffic lane on a high speed roadway, when there are well designed shoulders, bike lanes, WOLs or electric mobility cooridors, is total and utter BS.
I don't disagree with you about the (in)effectiveness of DLP but to denounce a theory based on the behaviour of one individual who (I'm sure the experts would agree) is applying the theory incorrectly is not the best way to make the point.
Jalopy
I-Like-To-Bike
12-05-05, 06:30 PM
I don't disagree with you about the (in)effectiveness of DLP but to denounce a theory based on the behaviour of one individual who (I'm sure the experts would agree) is applying the theory incorrectly is not the best way to make the point.
What IS the difference between applying the theory of DLP "correctly" vis-à-vis "incorrectly"? And in what way does a following motorist make any distinction?
Bekologist
12-05-05, 06:39 PM
Naw, this guy illustrated the techniques of 'DLP' as described in A&S pretty darn well.
Trouble is, it didn't work judging by all the brake lights in the lineup and jerky auto behavior I saw during his 'traffic interactions'.
This bicyclist was such a 'internet text' perfect example of the 'Dynamic Lane Positioning' technique along Rainier Ave S,
I wanted to post my observations of the DLP technique in the 'real world' as opposed to the 'internet world' where it all is the dance of the sugar plum fairies out there in trafficland.
Dchiefransom
12-05-05, 07:16 PM
Maybe the rider needed a little sobriety test amdinistered by a qualified law encorfement ociffer.
I-Like-To-Bike
12-05-05, 07:21 PM
Maybe the rider needed a little sobriety test amdinistered by a qualified law enforcement officer.
I would think that a cyclist using the dynamic lane positioning technique, CORRECTLY, as has been described by its progenitor, WOULD look like a drunken fool to anyone not versed in the Book of Gracious Cycling.
Bekologist
12-05-05, 07:30 PM
It's tough to ride that fast while drunk, I speak from voluminous experience on this.
Treespeed
12-05-05, 07:44 PM
It's tough to ride that fast while drunk, I speak from voluminous experience on this.
Bek,
I've stayed out of this until now, but man Rainier is a crazy street to be pulling the wandering cyclist routine on. That is a fast street with a huge shoulder, when it's clear of parking.
That's one thing I miss about Seattle/ WA state, biking while hammered. The pub crawl from downtown up the Pike/Pine corridor. Los Angeles has no decent bar scene, unless you want to pay $12 for a drink. As it finally starts to get a bit chilly here I find myself missing Kincora's, the Comet, and the Twilight Exit.
Sorry for the Seattle nostalgia. Great post, it's funny the lengths folks will go to defend their theories even when practiced so poorly.
Stay dry.
-Marcus
sbhikes
12-05-05, 08:12 PM
Come on up to Santa Barbara sometime and do the State St. crawl.
Anyway, I agree with you Bek. That whoe DLP w/CLB thing is complete hooey. Makes no sense at all. At least not where I live. Maybe elsewhere. I don't want to rule anything out. But not here. No way, no how. If you have ample, unobstructed space off to the right it makes no sense whatsoever not to use it. It's ridiculous to ride down the center pulling over every now and then for faster traffic. Not even the tractors that I see sometimes do that.
Roody
12-05-05, 08:25 PM
I don't know if I perform "DLP" correctly or not. In fact, I didn't even know what it is until a short time ago, and I have not changed my riding style lately. Here is how I ride:
I ride in the center of the outer lane all the time when it is too narrow to share. I don't pull over for anybody in this case. They can pall me in the other lane at their convenience.
If the outer lane is wide, I ride to the right most of the time. I pull out toward the center (of the outer lane) at intersections. I pull out toward the center if I see a cager waiting to pull out of a side street or driveway. I pull out toward the center if the right side is trashy. I never ride in door zones. I pull out toward the center if pedestrians or dogs are standing at the curb (squirrels--forget about it!). I may pull out toward the center on other occasions too rare to mention. If traffic is sparse, I usually ride all the time toward the center, but pull to the right to let faster vehicles pass me.
That's pretty much what I do. Is that (what I described) DLP, or not? Is it stupid riding, or not? I would like to know, please.
Jalopy
12-05-05, 08:40 PM
What IS the difference between applying the theory of DLP "correctly" vis-à-vis "incorrectly"? And in what way does a following motorist make any distinction?
Firstly, please don't misunderstand my intention... I am not a DLP advocate. However, in my opinion, it is better to argue against the actual theory than a straw man.
The guy in Bek's first post was holding up traffic, causing them to "slam on the brakes" and "swerve around" him. My understanding of DLP would have the cyclist move over before the motorists approached (I believe HH has said he moves over when the automobile is 4 seconds away). Big difference from a motorist's viewpoint.
The rest of the complaints, I agree with (ie. the farcity of riding down the centre of the lane when there are several metres of suitable pavement on the right just for the sake of avoiding a mysterious drifting tendancy that people in San Diego apparently suffer from).
Now that I have succeeded in disagreeing with everybody, I can rest easy.
Jalopy
I-Like-To-Bike
12-05-05, 08:49 PM
My understanding of DLP would have the cyclist move over before the motorists approached (I believe HH has said he moves over when the automobile is 4 seconds away). Big difference from a motorist's viewpoint.
Depends on the vehicle speed and if there is also traffic running along side and/or behind the approaching vehicle. 4 sec isn't all that much time. Unless the road is virtually empty with a motor vehicle only appearing every now and then as found on some rural roads, I don't think an urban cyclist would ever be able to practice this theory without placing himself at greater risk. All for no known reason except to avoid the San Diego drift.
Bekologist
12-05-05, 08:49 PM
4 seconds at 40 mph is about 230 feet, or about 3/4 the length of a football field.
I wonder how much staying out of traffic's way 230 feet behind you would look like if you practiced that as your DLP 'yield point'?
JRA
12-05-05, 08:51 PM
I don't know if I perform "DLP" correctly or not. In fact, I didn't even know what it is until a short time ago, and I have not changed my riding style lately. Here is how I ride:
I ride in the center of the outer lane all the time when it is too narrow to share. I don't pull over for anybody in this case. They can pall me in the other lane at their convenience.
If the outer lane is wide, I ride to the right most of the time. I pull out toward the center (of the outer lane) at intersections. I pull out toward the center if I see a cager waiting to pull out of a side street or driveway. I pull out toward the center if the right side is trashy. I never ride in door zones. I pull out toward the center if pedestrians or dogs are standing at the curb (squirrels--forget about it!). I may pull out toward the center on other occasions too rare to mention. If traffic is sparse, I usually ride all the time toward the center, but pull to the right to let faster vehicles pass me.
That's pretty much what I do. Is that (what I described) DLP, or not? Is it stupid riding, or not? I would like to know, please.The way you ride sounds reasonable to me. I wouldn't worry about whether it's DLP since there's no such thing as DLP.
knoregs
12-05-05, 09:02 PM
... 35mph means most are driving 40... Bicyclist in center of traffic lane, cars wheeling up on the guy, then slamming on the brakes...
if the cyclist was moving fast as you say (I'm assuming 25 or so) and the cars are doing 40, then the overtake speed would be 15 mph... I'm having a little trouble understanding why the cars needed to "slam on the brakes"... unless the road resembles a roller coaster, the motorists should have had AMPLE time to slow and pass... hmmmm
JRA
12-05-05, 09:07 PM
This thread is lame. You didn't even get the name of the theory right. It's DLLP - dynamic lateral lane positioning. All of the people in the world who know what it is could probably fit in a phone booth so I doubt that anybody saw another bicyclist practicing it.
The pupose of DLLP is apparently to avoid danger zone cycling (which I shall call DZC). The really silly concept is the concept of DZC.
You can use DLLP w/CLB to avoid DZC.
And I got dizzy just writing that.
Play on.
Roody
12-05-05, 09:46 PM
This thread is lame. You didn't even get the name of the theory right. It's DLLP - dynamic lateral lane positioning. All of the people in the world who know what it is could probably fit in a phone booth so I doubt that anybody saw another bicyclist practicing it.
The pupose of DLLP is apparently to avoid danger zone cycling (which I shall call DZC). The really silly concept is the concept of DZC.
You can use DLLP w/CLB to avoid DZC.
And I got dizzy just writing that.
Play on.
You're making me think.
Stop!
It hurts.
Bekologist
12-05-05, 09:52 PM
"It's the DLP/DLLP
controversy!!
It's a shim shammy,
flim flammy
DZC shuffle!!"
*bosso nova music in background*
mechBgon
12-05-05, 10:26 PM
My #2 principle of traffic cycling is to be predictable (being visible is #1). From the results the guy was getting, it sounds like he'd be better off going in a straight line. I mean, what's the point of sitting in that lane position if it's not necessary for safety? And if it IS necessary for safety, he shouldn't be giving it up.
peregrine
12-05-05, 11:16 PM
You can use DLLP w/CLB to avoid DZC.
:lol:
That would make an awesome sig :D
LCI_Brian
12-05-05, 11:22 PM
The way you [Roody] ride sounds reasonable to me.
+1
peregrine
12-05-05, 11:26 PM
if the cyclist was moving fast as you say (I'm assuming 25 or so) and the cars are doing 40, then the overtake speed would be 15 mph... I'm having a little trouble understanding why the cars needed to "slam on the brakes"... unless the road resembles a roller coaster, the motorists should have had AMPLE time to slow and pass... hmmmm
there are many reasons why cars would 'slam on the breaks' One of the main ones is probably that some drivers (especially in the NW) feel that they should slow down when they catch up with a cyclists, which they do by slamming on the breaks. Another is that it takes one cautious driver that can't decide fast enough what to do with the cyclist in the middle of the road -> slam on breaks -> all the cars behind slam on breaks. Another is if the driver doesn't see the cyclists in time to react -> slam on breaks in near-panic. Another is, if there're cars coming from the opposite direction and there's no room to pass -> slam on breaks. Another is that the driver thinks the cyclists is about to make a left turn and that's why he's in the middle of the road -> slam on breaks.
peregrine
12-05-05, 11:32 PM
I ride in the center of the outer lane all the time when it is too narrow to share. I don't pull over for anybody in this case. They can pall me in the other lane at their convenience.
Just out of curiosity and sorry if these are stupid questions. When you say "outer lane", does that mean there are 2+ lanes going in each direction? If so, what do you do if there's only one? Same thing?
Roody
12-06-05, 12:06 AM
Just out of curiosity and sorry if these are stupid questions. When you say "outer lane", does that mean there are 2+ lanes going in each direction? If so, what do you do if there's only one? Same thing?
Yes. Yes.
If the lane is too narrow to share, you can't share it. No matter where you ride in such a narrow lane, overtaking cars must leave the lane in order to pass you. A competent driver will have no problem doing that.
knoregs
12-06-05, 12:50 AM
there are many reasons why cars would 'slam on the breaks' One of the main ones is probably that some drivers (especially in the NW) feel that they should slow down when they catch up with a cyclists, which they do by slamming on the breaks. Another is that it takes one cautious driver that can't decide fast enough what to do with the cyclist in the middle of the road -> slam on breaks -> all the cars behind slam on breaks. Another is if the driver doesn't see the cyclists in time to react -> slam on breaks in near-panic. Another is, if there're cars coming from the opposite direction and there's no room to pass -> slam on breaks. Another is that the driver thinks the cyclists is about to make a left turn and that's why he's in the middle of the road -> slam on breaks.
you forgot a few.. what if the driver dropped their McDonalds french fry, or lit cigarette... what if they were applying cosmetics, brushing hair or teeth, picking their nose... on and on ad nauseam
tomorrow, try driving or riding at 15 mph and when you spot something ahead of you in the road start counting... when you run out of fingers and toes start over again and so on... let me know what number you are up to when you 'slam' on the brakes... if someone approaches you from behind doing 30 mph I suggest you move to the shoulder so that the approaching vehicle doesn't have to 'slam' on their brakes.
I-Like-To-Bike
12-06-05, 03:36 AM
This thread is lame. You didn't even get the name of the theory right. It's DLLP - dynamic lateral lane positioning. All of the people in the world who know what it is could probably fit in a phone booth so I doubt that anybody saw another bicyclist practicing it.
The pupose of DLLP is apparently to avoid danger zone cycling (which I shall call DZC). The really silly concept is the concept of DZC.
You can use DLLP w/CLB to avoid DZC.
Yeah, but that was last week. After being auditioned on BF and other Internet discussion lists on the road, the names may be different this week. Expect a few more name changes before the "correct names" hit the big time and are published in the upcoming opus "The Gracious Cyclist with Attitude".
CommuterRun
12-06-05, 04:45 AM
Sounds to me like the guy wasn't practicing any particular cycling technique. At least not correctly. If he had either held his line or moved over earlier, before the cars had to brake, he might have been. Maybe.
I don't think a concrete conclusion can be made on a cycling technique by the way one cyclist may, or may not, be applying it.
I don't know if I perform "DLP" correctly or not. In fact, I didn't even know what it is until a short time ago, and I have not changed my riding style lately. Here is how I ride:
I ride in the center of the outer lane all the time when it is too narrow to share. I don't pull over for anybody in this case. They can pall me in the other lane at their convenience.
If the outer lane is wide, I ride to the right most of the time. I pull out toward the center (of the outer lane) at intersections. I pull out toward the center if I see a cager waiting to pull out of a side street or driveway. I pull out toward the center if the right side is trashy. I never ride in door zones. I pull out toward the center if pedestrians or dogs are standing at the curb (squirrels--forget about it!). I may pull out toward the center on other occasions too rare to mention. If traffic is sparse, I usually ride all the time toward the center, but pull to the right to let faster vehicles pass me.
That's pretty much what I do. Is that (what I described) DLP, or not? Is it stupid riding, or not? I would like to know, please.
Just out of curiosity and sorry if these are stupid questions. When you say "outer lane", does that mean there are 2+ lanes going in each direction? If so, what do you do if there's only one? Same thing?
Yes. Yes.
If the lane is too narrow to share, you can't share it. No matter where you ride in such a narrow lane, overtaking cars must leave the lane in order to pass you. A competent driver will have no problem doing that.
Roody rides almost exactly the way I do, with one exception. Rather than ride in the center of a NOL I take the entire right half of the lane. But I don't disagree with the way he does it. In my road position, cars still have to change lanes to pass. At intersections I take the center of the lane that proceeds in my intended direction of travel.
The only other exception, that I see, is I am nearly always pulling a trailer. Either a Burley Flatbed Utility Trailer, a Burley Solo, or a 14'7" canoe on a Wike Woody Wagon.
Bekologist
12-06-05, 05:58 AM
please don't haul your canoe down the traffic lane on Ranier Ave S, that would be 'double down' stupid.
And this guy was doing the DLLP shuffle, doing it in a textbook manner (as best has been described in the Advocacy and Safety forums) and it is a farce.
If I watch a person bowl a 300 game, does that mean it isn't a good example of bowling because I only saw one person do it?
Using a center lane bias, (advanced as a part of 'DLP' or 'DLLP' techniques in the A&S forum) for WOL or roads with adequate facilities is a joke, a farce, a sham, delusionary, unvehicular, patently unsafe, and just downright wrong.
A false premise.
chipcom
12-06-05, 06:12 AM
Depends on the vehicle speed and if there is also traffic running along side and/or behind the approaching vehicle. 4 sec isn't all that much time. Unless the road is virtually empty with a motor vehicle only appearing every now and then as found on some rural roads, I don't think an urban cyclist would ever be able to practice this theory without placing himself at greater risk. All for no known reason except to avoid the San Diego drift.
Mr. Iowa Metropolis doesn't 'think' an urban cyclist ever travels on roads that have sparse enough traffic to ride centerish in the lane! Now that's about as funny as HH assuming that everyplace is like San Diego. Are you sure that you and HH are not the same person, two-sides of the same coin, perhaps a little Sybil thing going on?
The guy Bek saw was either an idiot, or a noob trying HH's DLP with a bit of YOUR distortions of the concept thrown in. Don't lay this all on HH, you and Bek are doing a fine job ensuring that anything he tries to outline is distorted enough to ENSURE it's dangerous. Good job, be proud of yourself. Did it ever cross your mind to maybe outline what you think is the 'right' way to ride in traffic, rather than to just confuse folks by distorting other's attempts to do so? I didn't think so. You're dismissed, as usual.
chipcom
12-06-05, 06:14 AM
The way you ride sounds reasonable to me. I wouldn't worry about whether it's DLP since there's no such thing as DLP.
+1
+2
CommuterRun
12-06-05, 06:16 AM
please don't haul your canoe down the traffic lane on Ranier Ave S, that would be 'double down' stupid.
Depends, is there anywhere near Rainier Ave S I would want to go fishing? ;)
If I watch a person bowl a 300 game, does that mean it isn't a good example of bowling just because I only saw one guy do it?
Yes, that one person could have bad technique, but incredible luck.
Adequate facilities for cycling are everywhere. They are known as "roads" and "highways". Other facilities such as bike lanes and bike specific trails are specifically catering to a special interest group.
Bekologist
12-06-05, 06:20 AM
haw haw haw, love that. 300 bowling as luck is still a great set of pins!
there's no segregation in facilities on Rainier Ave S except some thin white stripes on the road. If by 'special interest' groups you mean 'bicyclists', then yes.
Bekologist
12-06-05, 06:24 AM
Did it ever cross your mind to maybe outline what you think is the 'right' way to ride in traffic, rather than to just confuse folks by distorting other's attempts to do so? I didn't think so. You're dismissed, as usual.
Just in my defense, not that I feel defensive about anything, is that I started an Advocacy and Safety thread about Rainier Ave S a few weeks ago, and used it as an example of a roadway with adequate, well designed bicycle facilities. We did discuss the 'best' or 'correct' way of riding this road first.
huhenio
12-06-05, 06:48 AM
Yes. Yes.
If the lane is too narrow to share, you can't share it. No matter where you ride in such a narrow lane, overtaking cars must leave the lane in order to pass you. A competent driver will have no problem doing that.
I ride mostly in areas with moslty no practical shoulders, and very few drivers fail to leave enough room to pass. They get a little over the other line and for all practical purposes 2 cars and a bicycle fit on the road.
Even not so competent drivers seem to have not a problem with that.
On the other hand, in changing line configurations I signal with my right hand to hold on because I will run out of room pretty soon.
So far no honking ... but I use the same routes and I can predict changing in road configurations and let the drivers know in a reasonable advance (30 secs roughly) what my next move will be.
Keeping my speed (16 to 18 mph ) in a reasonable limit also helps me to be confident so to signal drivers behind me about my intentions.
Just wanted to share how do I position myself in and out of the lanes.
LCI_Brian
12-06-05, 07:19 AM
Roody rides almost exactly the way I do, with one exception. Rather than ride in the center of a NOL I take the entire right half of the lane. But I don't disagree with the way he does it. In my road position, cars still have to change lanes to pass. At intersections I take the center of the lane that proceeds in my intended direction of travel.
Riding in the right half of a NOL works fine for me on lower speed roads. But on higher speed roads, I find that motorists will change lanes sooner when I'm in the center of a NOL compared to the right half. I'm too lazy to link to the post in another thread where I mentioned that observation.