Tandem Cycling - Tandem fit, geometry, and aggressive stokers

So, after 3 months on the Burley Tosa, Mollie and I have fallen in love with our tandem. The Tosa was such a perfect entry-level bike in that it was stable, stiff, responsive, and, interestingly, had a top tube that was a little shorter than the Co-Motion we tested, so Mollie actually felt more comfortable.

The thing is that now, after we've sort of settled in and Mollie is developing her own riding technique, she's finding that (no surprise) the more upright position she has in the stoker's seat feels less powerful than if she could be a little further forward on the bike. Her saddle is about as far back as it can go, and her stoker stem is all the way down my post and adjusted as short as it will go. I was kicking around the idea of a shorter stem for her, but I'm worried this will just drop her head into my back.

I'm really starting to think that maybe the Co-Motion's geometry is the way to go for our next tandem. We test-rode a Primera when we were shopping, and in addition to the longer top tube (which Mollie thought was a BAD thing at the time), I was a little uncomfortable with the "jittery" handling of the front end at low speeds. The other issue was the frame, which seemed to have a little too much flex for our 350# team.

It's frustrating that our mutual lack of tandem experience led to us finding a bike whose geometry we aren't in love with, but I suppose there was no way of knowing that I'd become more comfortable in the captain's seat and actually WANT a quicker front end, and that Mollie would want to ride aggressively enough to make the longer top tube a better fit for her style.

Are there any other ideas in the mean time? should we try a pair of drop bars in the back just for laughs, to see if she can find a more aggressive position without her face getting planted in my butt?

I think the only clear solution is to track down our long-lost, ultra-rich uncle who will buy us a Robusta for our wedding :)

Thanks for any advice!
DrPete

I don't understand exactly what you mean by a more 'aggressive' position. Lets say you are hammering the flats. I will assume you are larger physically than your stoker. If you as captain are as low and you can get on the bike - hands in the drops or on the hoods - with a flat back, and the stoker cannot see over top of you, than that is about as aero as you are going to get. If her head is higher than your back when you are in the drops, than maybe she could get a little lower for flat land speed.

In that case, if you have bullhorns in the back, drop bars would lower her a little and give her more hand position options.

It's not really so much an issue of aero position as it is her wanting to have a less upright, lower position for pedaling power. She IS physically smaller than me, but after a few hundred miles she's realizing that if she has a longer reach to the bars and can get lower over the top tube she pedals stronger.

I guess I'm just lucky I have a stoker who wants to ride harder!

I upgraded from a Cdale to a Co MOtion recently, and the extra toptube length does help get yer stoker down in the drops further; i.e. more agressive per your definition. Putting the saddle all the way back to try to get low down is not productive for most folks: you'll end up with hip flexor issues and lower back pain. I'm a guy who raced for years and years in teh TT position, so have some in-depth experience.Trying the same thing on your curent bike would require moulding her helmet to your backside, sort of. You can only adjust so far. Yes, get some drops. As an aside: turn the Burley into a Mt tandem.

What type of bars has your stoker? Drop bars offer more positions but she may precisely find that she is either too low and too close to you, or too high. Stoker Bars would place her hands further away and slightly more open, so she could ride a bit lower than with either drop bars or straight bars, without feeling that she hides in your rear end.

If you have straight bars for the stoker and if you have a set of bar ends somewhere, one cheap trick would be to install bar ends pointing down. It might not be the best comfort wise, but it would allow her to try a different position and see whether or not it is a step in the right direction.

Are there any other ideas in the mean time? should we try a pair of drop bars in the back just for laughs, to see if she can find a more aggressive position without her face getting planted in my butt?

IMHO, bull horns are B.S. for a road tandem... Check the archives.

I would definitely outfit the tandem with drop bars and would also suggest that you get Mollie's riding position as closely matched to her single bike as you can after setting the saddle set-back to match her single, even if it means giving up your Camelbak to give her some extra "space".

Just a note on the Primera vs. Burley and stiffness, what you may have been feeling on the Primera was "stoker lag" or "stoker steering" not frame flex. Best "next move" for you two is another visit to Mel's or some other Co-Motion dealer for some additional test rides on a Speedster, perhaps a Roadster, your coveted Robusta or even a Bushnell. My guess is, having become somewhat proficient as a team on your Burley, you and Mollie will now be in a better position to evaluate how some of the other tandems handle and fit. You'll need to allow for some transition time when moving to a Co-Motion, particularly one fitted with the Wound-Up fork. If you thought they felt "jittery" before, it will INITIALLY be worse now since you've become accustomed to how the Burley handles. About 15 minutes on the Co-Motion with a few stop & go's should give you time to make the adjustment after which you'll get a better feel for the differences while, at the same time, Mollie should have also settled into her riding position. Mollie's form will be critical to the quality of your test ride experience. Again, long-trail tandems reward smooth teams with excellent handling and are less forgiving of stoker's who move around or who otherwise have poor pedalling form.

Thanks, TandemGeek--I think a cheap pair of drop bars will be easier for now than a new Co-Motion, so we'll give that a shot.

The challenge is that our Tosa is Mollie's first "serious" bike. She has a single mtn. bike that we take on bike paths and light-duty mountain biking, but this is the first bike she's really riding seriously. As you might remember, she had a pretty major face vs. car incident in her childhood and the Burley has totally gotten her into cycling. She even wants to try a single road bike now! Woohoo! But anyway, it makes it hard for us because the fitting we're doing is all for the first time.

Interesting that you mention the "stoker lag" on the Co-Motion. Makes a lot of sense now. I'm sure that our experience riding a Co-Motion would be quite different now with some new-found efficiency and smoothness.

It's becoming clear to both of us what an amazing "gateway drug" Burley manufactures. We'll keep pedaling away on it until we have the $$$ to upgrade, but it's great to know there's such a well-built entry-level bike out there to open the door for new tandem teams!

Trying out a set of drop bars is a much cheaper than rushing out to be buy a new Co-
Mo!
Having said that the first tandem is always a learning experience. It teaches you what you do/do not like/want.
Through the years we went from 'learning' to 'agrressive' to 'fast touring'. Seems we've come full circle and we are now in 'slowing down' mode!
Give the drop bars a try; and a new Co-Mo can still be on your horizon!
Pedal on!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem