Living Car Free - I would like a few opinions

First off a little history; I'm going thru a mid life crisis i think. I presently live in S. Florida (which has a terrible transit system, that i use everyday!). I gave up a technical carreer of 25yrs. and went back to school in the Health care field. Saying all that i feel i can relocate just about anywhere in the North America and find employement.
I hate what cars do to our enviorment
I hate paying for all the related expenses with cars
I hate what physical condition is associated with our society of coach potatoes

So i have gotten the green light from my wife for us to relocate when i graduate. This is where i need your opinions, i would love to commute via bike or bike/lightrail, or any other vialble option to a nearby hospital. But also use my bike for the everyday staples of life. What city comes to mind if u could choose?
Thx jim..........

portland, oregon. i lived there and philly, which is probably the other choice you'll hear brought up, along with chicago (where i haven't been in years). i can't speak for chicago, but portland is a great city to get around in on a bicycle. and the public transit will meet most of your needs by itself. the transit isn't perfect, but it's good, and if you have a bike, you'll barely even need it, and you'll get around just fine there.

Davis, California was the first city awarded Platinum level bicycle freindly city by the League of American Bicyclist. Might be a good place to start. I live in Phoenix, AZ area and it is not bad for riding but I don't like the public transportation and the summers can be a very warm ride.

east portland, oregon. davis is nice enough, but really a small town - maybe that's ok for you. we're almost 40 with a kid and do everything by bike here, and we're not alone. visit. and if you have the money and time, visit amsterdam for a bikey utopia beyond your wildest imaginings.

Me and a car free buddy are heading out to live in portland over this summer, and I can't wait. We should have a bikeforums group ride or something.

edit- Vancouver, Canada is also really nice as far as cities go, I plan on escaping the US at some point and that is near the top of my list of potential places to live.

search the forums for "best bike city" or "best, city". i live in denver, so of course i love the city, and the college towns, (boulder, fort collins, durango) offer great lifestyle and all four seasons

i'm partial to the western states, love the clear blue skies, mountains and open spaces for hundreds of miles

all the best and good luck with your search

I think you should go by the quality of the public transportation. You can ride a bike anywhere.

Boston has a ton of hospitals and a very good public transportation system. The weather isn't as nice as Florida, obviously, but it gives you a good reason to grow a winter beard.

You might want to add in a few other variables such as cost of living. I currently live in San Francisco, which in my opinion is the best big city in the USA. SF has a large bike culture, a powerful bike organization that gets results, plenty of public transport, mild weather, and overall is a great city to get around by bike. But it is way too expensive. My second choice would be Denver or Boulder - the cost of living there is a lot better than here but still not cheap. Portland is just too rainy for me, although I have heard lots of good things about it.

First off a little history; I'm going thru a mid life crisis i think. I presently live in S. Florida (which has a terrible transit system, that i use everyday!). I gave up a technical carreer of 25yrs. and went back to school in the Health care field. Saying all that i feel i can relocate just about anywhere in the North America and find employement.
I hate what cars do to our enviorment
I hate paying for all the related expenses with cars
I hate what physical condition is associated with our society of coach potatoes

So i have gotten the green light from my wife for us to relocate when i graduate. This is where i need your opinions, i would love to commute via bike or bike/lightrail, or any other vialble option to a nearby hospital. But also use my bike for the everyday staples of life. What city comes to mind if u could choose?
Thx jim..........

I can highly recommend Seattle for bicycle commuting. It is rainy about six months of the year, but the weather is very mild otherwise. It rarely snows or gets below freezing. The transit system is bus oriented, extensive, and very good. They are currently building a light rail system. The cost of living is high.
Portland has an even better reputation for bicycle culture and infrastructure. There is a fairly extensive transit system including light rail. The climate is about the same as Seattle, and it is cheaper.

how about the Burlington, Vermont area... coming from South Florida might be little shock to the system though :D

I've always been impressed with Austin, TX. Downside is its in the middle of TX, but you'd never know it since its so radically different from the rest of the state.

I've moved around to different parts of the country, and I can say there's probably not one city that you'll be completely happy with. I lived in Boston for about 5 years. I didn't own a car, public transportation was fantastic, and there's a HUGE medical network there. The downside is the cost of living is pretty high, and coming from a warm, sunny area, your first one or two winters are going to hurt. ;)

NYC is much the same, but cost of living is even higher.

Chicago's great, but MUCH too cold for my taste. I guess I'm just a wimp.

San Francisco is my favorite US city. Fairly mild climate (although is does get much colder than FL), and, with the exception of the cost of living, I honestly can't think of anything that would deter me from living there.

Never been to Portland or Seattle, so I can't speak to that. It obviously rains a lot in both places, which would be hard on my physche.

Austin is a fine city, although I would't want to live there car free. I'm sure there's plenty that do it, but it would appear inordinately difficult unless you lived very near downtown. The hill country is a great part of Texas, and there's a HUGE network of cyclists both on and off road.

Best of luck!

i'd like to point out that it rains more in atlanta or boston than in portland. portland is rainy compared to california, yes. it's often overcast 6 months of the year. light showers or drizzle interspersed with sun breaks is a common pattern. it keeps the place green. summer's great, and the latitude means it's light until near 10 at the solstice.

i lived in san francisco before portland. yes, it has a reasonable cycling culture and there are many day rides out of the city that just can't get any better. unless you live in a select group of areas in town, though, the hills do present a challenge to hauling groceries, family members, etc. and the cost of housing is just about 3x what it is in portland.

seattle is pretty hilly in many parts, and it's quite sprawling, and more expensive than portland too, same weather. bike infrastructure isn't up to portland's level. bike culture there, while at least as vital as SF's, is still a bit more underground feeling than portland's too.

Since you indicated you can find a good job anywhere, here are my top choices. These might not be the best for anyone, but if you can find decent work, these are the best:

1) Vancouver, BC: Consistently rated as one of the worlds most livable cities for good reason: Very livable downtown, great mass transit (elevated sky train), cosmopolitan atmosphere and wonderful people, great parks and other recreational opportunities. True, it's overcast much of the year, but it's mostly drizzle.

2) Portland, OR: Rated as the best city for bicycles in the US, it also has a great light rail system, and decent bus system. Well designed downtown builit around bikes and walking as the primary means of transit. The main downside for me is the ethnic homogeneity - Portland still has a provincial, white-bread feel to it. As the city continues to grow, that could change.

Honorable mention

Seattle, WA: Seattle is rated as the best city over 500K for bicycles. Since I live hear, I know first hand the good and bad. Seattle is generally a good bike city. As far as transit goes, it's all busses, though as someone else mentioned a limited light rail system is under construction. The busses are generally reliable, but not all that pleasant to ride. Beautiful geography and good opportunity for recreation. I generally like Seattle, but for such a reputed liberal city, it's suffers from beaurocratic, stagnant sociopolitical environment. As an example - Portland got their light rail started about a decade ago, while ours was stuck in red tap for over 5 years and is just now being built. They are working to make downtown more livable, but right now it is not - it's noisy and infested with autos.

So overall, if it's possible, I'd look at Vancouver BC, but Portland OR is also a solid choice.

Hate to say it, but New Brunswick, NJ? Two hospitals within two miles of each other, also Rutgers University right here too.

Boulder out in Colorado is a great bike town too, bikes lanes everywhere as well as a good bus system (or so my friends out there say).

Both locations are at roughly the same latitude and experience both cold and snow, but Boulder is a lot drier so thats a definite plus. I honestly have never seen rain there (have seen snow though) in the almost 6 months total i've been out there.

NYC is much the same, but cost of living is even higher.

San Francisco is my favorite US city. Fairly mild climate (although is does get much colder than FL), and, with the exception of the cost of living, I honestly can't think of anything that would deter me from living there.


Agreed.

San Francisco is the only other city I would move to if it were so unaffordable. The cost of housing is so high because they did not build upward placing height restriction and spread out single family homes until all the land was taken. Salaries are not much higher than New York City but the weather is great. If you didn't buy a home in San Fran by 1980, you're priced out unless you're making six figures.

I don't live in New York City but it does not have to be expensive. Rail will take you 50 miles out of the city and if you know the towns, you'll find bargains. Commuter rail lines like MetroNorth, the Long Island Rail road and NJ Transit allow you to live in the burbs. Most housing next to train stops tend to be pricy but with a folding bike, you can find many homes within bike distance (2 miles or less) of the station. I must say that homes in general are expensive so if you're not making 75K and up with a 10% down, you'll probably be a renter or condo buyer.

I was looking at the New York Times and this woman actually did a video presentation of her Coop purchase in New York City and was proud of it too! Folks. Her studio looked like college dorm and cost 265K! Her bed alone took up 70% of all the walking space! Incredible. I thought it was a horrible purchase but she looked happy.

I live in Northern NJ (Bayonne) about 10 miles away from New York City. It's not bad and no I don't live in a slum. My 1.4 billion dollar light rail is within walking distance with 5 bus lines on either corner of my block. Malls, Churches, schools, shops resturants, hospitals and supermarkets are literally within walking distance. I stopped bike commuting long ago since they opened the lightrail. Only those who want to show off their status symbol buy cars but you can live motorcar free.

You'll find similar neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. As someone said, the weather isn't the greatest which is why I would live in San Fran if it were affordable.

alank, that would depend on where in portland you are. when i first lived there, i spent most of my time in northeast portland, where there'll be a soul food joint, a thai restaurant and an italian restaurant all on the same block. i mean...i'm not sure how to illustrate it, but some parts of portland and mayb most of portland's pretty white bread, but where i was, i was definitely around a much more ethnically diverse population than i was raised in (i grew up in kansas and idaho mostly).

tfahrner's right about the rain...not as bad as it's made to seem, it's more just a constant rather than a huge amount.

and lung--group ride? i'm down. i'll be out of this godforsaken town by summer. (okay, it's not that bad, but it sure isn't home to me no matter how much family is here).

one thing i'd like to add about portland is that it's a great bike city also because you get a decent amount of respect from motorists. coming to idaho and noticing differences here...it's rather big. since so many people in portland ride, most motorists are aware and considerate. many people driving would even rather be on a bike, but maybe were going on a big shopping run or something (since not EVERYONE'S car free, though most people CAN be).

NYC is easy to get around in w/ transportation and bike. It sucks to live in with horrible traffic and COL is crazy. Go with the other suggestion and live outside the city if this is on your radar.

Also, Portland is the no brainer. but I would visit first as the West coast and NW culture is very different from the east coast, not in a good or bad way, just different.

Good luck

yeah, really different. i couldn't move to the east coast...

though i hear boston and portland are fairly similar. but portland is...yeah, the NW is a really different culture, and portland's in a leauge with san francisco and austin for weirdness.

San Francisco is the only other city I would move to if it were so unaffordable.

everyone keeps thinking that the entire bay area is based on San Francisco, which is fine by me because it keeps a lot of people out. other surrounding cities such as Oakland (hm for me), Berkeley, El Cerrito, Hayward, Castro Valley and other places that make up Alameda County are way better in price from renting up to purchasing. and have just as strong if not even stronger bicycle coalition (mbr) because it seems like the sf coalition has more of a political platform than a realistic vision, imo...

First off a little history; I'm going thru a mid life crisis i think. I presently live in S. Florida (which has a terrible transit system, that i use everyday!). I gave up a technical carreer of 25yrs. and went back to school in the Health care field. Saying all that i feel i can relocate just about anywhere in the North America and find employement.
I hate what cars do to our enviorment
I hate paying for all the related expenses with cars
I hate what physical condition is associated with our society of coach potatoes

So i have gotten the green light from my wife for us to relocate when i graduate. This is where i need your opinions, i would love to commute via bike or bike/lightrail, or any other vialble option to a nearby hospital. But also use my bike for the everyday staples of life. What city comes to mind if u could choose?
Thx jim..........

Coachella Valley, Palm Springs and environs.

Three main hospitals plus a thriving industry in plastic surgery, sports medicine and retirement care.

The streets are good and pretty much flat. The weather warm to hot. Skiing within 15 minutes of Palm Springs. Several active bike clubs, the Tour De Palm Springs. If you want climbing, the mountains close by offer a 4,500 foot climb in 10 miles and other delights.

Snow is kept exclusively on the mountains. In the 8 years I lived there, I never saw snow on the ground, though once it came down to 200 feet. Hurricanes cannot make it there. Though the Gulf of California is only about 100 miles away, 10,000 foot tall mountains destroy the cyclonic circulation.

*another recommendation for portland* :) I do love it here, but I don't plan on staying for a long time.


everyone keeps thinking that the entire bay area is based on San Francisco, which is fine by me because it keeps a lot of people out. other surrounding cities such as Oakland (hm for me), Berkeley, El Cerrito, Hayward, Castro Valley and other places that make up Alameda County are way better in price from renting up to purchasing. and have just as strong if not even stronger bicycle coalition (mbr) because it seems like the sf coalition has more of a political platform than a realistic vision, imo...

I'd actually like to move to SF. I love that city :) But ya know, I'd like to move to NYC. I'm so indecisive like that... but I do have another year and 3 months to think it out, which when my contract expires here, and I *could* relocate with my company (they have worksites in both cities and many places in between).

alank, that would depend on where in portland you are. when i first lived there, i spent most of my time in northeast portland, where there'll be a soul food joint, a thai restaurant and an italian restaurant all on the same block. i mean...i'm not sure how to illustrate it, but some parts of portland and mayb most of portland's pretty white bread, but where i was, i was definitely around a much more ethnically diverse population than i was raised in (i grew up in kansas and idaho mostly).

Yeah, Portland isn't totally whitebread - most cities with over 100K is going to have some ethnic diversity. Depends what you're used to - to me Portland is just whitebread compared to San Fran, NYC, Van BC, and even Seattle (which has plenty of asians, but few blacks). Also, I have a couple friends in Portland who told me racism is much more prevalent than Seattle. I don't live there, so this is just hersey.

everyone keeps thinking that the entire bay area is based on San Francisco, which is fine by me because it keeps a lot of people out. other surrounding cities such as Oakland (hm for me), Berkeley, El Cerrito, Hayward, Castro Valley and other places that make up Alameda County are way better in price from renting up to purchasing. and have just as strong if not even stronger bicycle coalition (mbr) because it seems like the sf coalition has more of a political platform than a realistic vision, imo...

Not to get all provincial and "my town is better than your town" but Oakland and Berkeley are not that much cheaper than San Francisco. They are much better places to live than, say, Dallas TX, but c'mon, they really aren't on the same level as SF or NYC. If I ever left SF I'd probably leave California altogether and go somewhere where the cost of living isn't so ridiculous.

I really appreciate all the inputs. I guess i do have to weigh the cost of living alittle more heavier into my equation. What i am looking for is Utopia but probably could only afford a happy medium.

Absolutely do not move to Indianapolis. I grew up in Indy, and between the useless public transportation and the sprawl, you've got to be majorly commited to the car-free life to do it there.

how about the Burlington, Vermont area... coming from South Florida might be little shock to the system though :D

+1. I have visited Burlington numerous times, and always felt it to be a wonderful place. Though I did not do much cycling, as I was visiting a friend on those occasions.

As an aside, perhaps consider a smaller city, by American standards. That is to say, less than 200,000 people or so.

Smaller cities tend to be designed such that you can do almost anything on a bicycle. Having lived in a large city and a small town I can say that, biking in the smaller places was much more enjoyable.

Food is probably close, your work is likely within distance, not as much congestion, etc.

I do not recall the nearest hospital, but the Eureka/Arcata area in northern California is a phenominal place to live. I would guess the area would suit your professional needs too, since Eureka is the largest city that far north, so it must not be too
far from most health care facilities.

Not too much rain by Oregon or Washington standards, very mild climate year round, beach is close, mountains are close, some of the most beautiful forests (coastal redwood) in the world, and pretty progressive and friendly people. A lot of students that go to Humboldt State university in Arcata end up staying in Arcata.

However, I know little about the public transit. I never needed to use it since I could bicycle everywhere, but there are numerous bus lines. Nothing spectacular like, say, Portland. Also, the cost of living is pretty cheap compared to other parts of California, especially areas of Los Angeles and San Fran.

This is far from an exact science, but might help shed some light on the COL in different areas.

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/

nice to see an interesting thread -- it's great to see so many people that have something simliar to my perspective...

I think as has been said, region is a big thing. It's something you can't describe. I spent my first 26 years in Texas, then 3 years in Portland OR, then 1 year in Boston and now 4 years in Munich Germany... I am pretty much a West Coast and Rocky Mountain person. (although i like the Northeast and the South has it's charm but i could probably never live there again)

yes, i like Philly where my sister lives and Boston was ok, and NYC is interesting - and i'm sure there are other great places...
but i just prefer the laid-back relaxed mentality of the West Coast.

I think the descriptions of Portland are pretty decent. on the one hand it is somewhat homogenous but then not anything like somewhere like Idaho --- and to be fair, when i visited I found Burlington VT to be even more white-bread (i think Burlington is pretty cool so i'm not dogging it) --- coming from Texas i guess i didn't notice much i think mainly just because i never witnessed any major incidents of racism -- as i said, i grew up in Texas where unfortunately racism can be witnessed pretty easily - but these attitudes APPEAR less prevalent in Portland...
BUT, i had one friend in Portland who told me he HAD to leave Portland ASAP b/c of the continual harassment b/c he was black. at first i really didn't believe him and thought he was exagerrating, but he told me he had never encountered such serious racism down in Southern California (he had studied in LA) -- he received death threads and the police refused to take any action and then they burnt his house down...
BUT this was also a ways outside of Portland (towards the coast in a small town) and he then moved into the city before i met him...

ok, kind of off track here, but all in all i found Portland to be REALLY open-minded and laid-back and accepting of other people. plus of course the great support for Cycling (Bicycle Transportation Alliance!!)

as someone else commented: when you're on your bike it Portland you have the feeling that every person in a car is jealous that they for whatever reason HAD to drive instead of being the lucky one who gets to bike. in other cities (Munich, Dallas, Austin, Boston, etc) i have never gotten this feeling. (ok, Boulder CO)

as someone else suggested, IF you can get a job in a smaller place AND you don't require a big city for yourself (some people NEED that big-city feeling) that's the way i would go. I unfortunately work in a field (computer software) where almost all the jobs are in major cities... (my ideal would be say 500,000)

as to the Seattle/Portland thing -- they are pretty similar. i think the difference is the big/small city thing. if you like a "real city" then choose Seattle. if not, then you will probably prefer the smaller, homier feeling of Portland. if you visit Portland you will notice pretty soon --- either you will think "wow, this is awesome" or "hmm... kind of boring and there's nothing going on" (the latter i can't personally understand but i heard it a lot from those from SF or NYC or Seattle)

I have never lived in Cali, but i've visited a lot. SF is cool but the cost is just crazy (almost moved there many times). otherwise (as someone else also suggested) smaller places in Northen California are pretty cool with a reasonable combination of good weather, liberal culture, not SO expensive cost-of-living, great destinations closeby (SF and mountains/coat/nature)... i can't recommend much here specifically as i never lived there.

on the East Coast, of cities, I like Philly the best...

Austin Texas was mentioned- (i got my undergraduate at UT Austin)... Austin is a cool town and about the only place in the South i would want to live. weather is decent (if hot weather doesn't bother you which it doesn't me) and the people are nice and friendly and Austin has a great "feeling"... but the sprawl is pretty crazy AND you're surrounded by conservative CAR people for hundreds of miles in every direction. Austin can work car-free, you just have to be comfortable with the fact the 99% of the people you come in to contact with will think you are a complete FREAK. (my uncles and cousins and all just shake their heads when they hear about me riding a bike everywhere - or moving to Germany for that matter)

so my recommendation:
pick 1-2 regions (West Coast/northern Cali/B.C., Southern Cali/Arizona, Rocky Mountains, South, Midwest, Northeast, etc.)
choose a target city size- e.g.: real city (>2million); (city) 1-2 million; "big town" 500,000; 200,000
decide if you want to live in an urban area (NYC, SF proper, downtown Portland/Seattle), inner-city neighboorhood (e.g. Oakland, NE Portland) or suburban (yuck), or small community linked by rail (New Jersey offers such i think)...

but then i offer "great advice" as i cannot even decide which COUNTRY i want to live in!! my top choices: Fort Collins CO, Boulder CO, Portland OR, Munich Germany, Bozen Italy (no work), Innsbruck Austria, Vancouver BC, various Northern Cali towns... plus places where i can't get a job: Hood River OR, Flagstaff AZ, Durango CO...

First off a little history; I'm going thru a mid life crisis i think. I presently live in S. Florida (which has a terrible transit system, that i use everyday!). I gave up a technical carreer of 25yrs. and went back to school in the Health care field. Saying all that i feel i can relocate just about anywhere in the North America and find employement.
I hate what cars do to our enviorment
I hate paying for all the related expenses with cars
I hate what physical condition is associated with our society of coach potatoes

So i have gotten the green light from my wife for us to relocate when i graduate. This is where i need your opinions, i would love to commute via bike or bike/lightrail, or any other vialble option to a nearby hospital. But also use my bike for the everyday staples of life. What city comes to mind if u could choose?
Thx jim..........
I am in the healthcare industry for 20 years, with technical degrees and I want to move for the same reasons. If you find the place let me know! I was born in Oregon, leaning towards Eugene. You can travel the entire city by bike.

I really appreciate all the inputs. I guess i do have to weigh the cost of living alittle more heavier into my equation. What i am looking for is Utopia but probably could only afford a happy medium.

Utopia is in Texas. That's where my family came from.

Seattle gets much less rain than Portland, but I do like both places. Seattle has several micro-climates induced by the Olympic Mountains. Sequim, which is linearly 80 miles away from Seattle, is technically a desert. Northern Kitsap county (across Puget Sound west of Seattle) is also quite dry... check out Kingston. From there you can take a 40-minute ferry directly to Seattle. Your new workplace is likely to pay for your monthly pass which would otherwise be $75 plus $1 surcharge per trip to take a bicycle.

What i am looking for is Utopia but probably could only afford a happy medium.

I have been living in Chicago my entire life and have grown quite fond of the city, mayor, corupt politics, bike lanes, tall buildings, public transportation, vast space, people, neighborhoods, lake front parks, beaches, architecture, and cultures. Im a student and attempting to straighten and figure everything out in my life, but have commited to staying in chicago because of the limitless possabilities and oportunities. And did I mention the most important aspect... the fast growing bicycle respect.

Mayor Daley has been atop and leading the forfront of bike advocatism in chicago for at least a decade and has thouroughly and successfully commitied to his goal of making the city the bike friendliest in the nation. There are over 100 miles of bike shared lanes on the streets (this number has been increasing steadily every year) over 10,000 city implanted bike racks, and one day of the year, Lake Shore Drive (LSD, a four lane major highway that rides along the beautiful lake front) is closed completely for cars while bikes are permitted to run rampant along the 30 mile stretch. Additionally, the chicagoland bicycle federation is an organization with members in the thousands and is just another example on how friendly the city is to bikers.

Furthermore, cost of living is bearable when compared to NY, Bos, or SF; nice single family homes can be found for 300-500K (even cheeper on the south and west sides). If renting is an option, beautifull apts can be found for 1000/mo give or take. And in addition to the thousands who comute daily, if you determine that bikeing is not your forte for the day, the CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) has reliable, extensive, impressive, relatively cheep, convinient, rail and bus routes covering almost all the nooks and cranies of the city. "The CTA logs approximately 1.5 million transit trips a day. It has more than 2,000 buses and 222 miles of rail."

Over the years I have created a strong bond with my city and have learned to appreciate the good bad and ugly. The cold weather can be brutal, but it only makes you stronger. Im a messenger and this is my first winter, and if you properly prepare, its a lot easier than anyone would think. I have never owned a car because there is no need for one here. As long as i am living in chicago i am commmited to being car free!