Touring - hammock vs. tent?

I plan on stealth camping through Europe for just under a year beginning in june. I plan on staying around the southern, warmer portions through winter. I was originally planning on a tent, but just recently started looking at the Hennessy hammocks. Anyone care to help me out on the pros and cons of each? if you chose one over the other, why? I'm worried about two things with the hammock, namely the cold and comfort. Also, i was thinking that there may be a number of areas where i won't be able to find any suitable trees. any thoughts?

A hammock sounds like a horrible idea for lots of reasons: If there aren't suitable trees around, you're screwed. Much of southern europe doesn't have a lot of trees. Southern europe isn't all that warm in the winter, and you lose a lot of heat when you're hanging in the air. You will be very cold. Have you ever tried to sleep in a hammock before? Not everyone finds it comfortable.

hammocks are awesome. I did a solo, fully self-supported trip from Vancouver to San Diego using one. If' you're getting cold, you're not doing it right. If you are going solo, it's the absolute best way to go imo. There are a few threads here on this issue.

Word to the wise...
Many campgrounds will not allow you to hang a hammock from their trees.

I know there's a small but vocal contingent of pro-hammock folks on BF, but all things being equal, a good tent is a better choice. IMHO.

Word to the wise...
Many campgrounds will not allow you to hang a hammock from their trees.


where? I have camped in dozens of campgrounds all around the country and in europe. have never encountered this. seriously.

the negative comments on hammocks I have read on this forum are from people who have never actually tried it.

anyway - I'll spare you why I think they're better and just tell you what I have used:
a siltarp hammock that I can sandwich a sleeping pad between;
a kelty parabolic tarp to string above it;
sleeping bag;
a 2oz bug net if it's gonna be a buggy destination;
and about 40feet of nylon rope to be sure you can find the right spot to tie up.

I also put a wad of clothing under my knees when I sleep to keep a natural bend in them. this setup also works well if you are a side-sleeper -- the inflated pad will give you a nearly flat sleeping surface.

you can store all your gear underneath you - out of the rain while you sleep. you can string a small candle lantern to the hammock rope to read by. the options are endless, and the thing never gets muddy and you will absolutely, positively never get wet if you do it right.

where? I have camped in dozens of campgrounds all around the country and in europe. have never encountered this. seriously.

the negative comments on hammocks I have read on this forum are from people who have never actually tried it.


All the campgrounds in the Northeast that I've ever been to have been anal-retentive in respect to trees on their property.

I saw on TV this year an Aussie guy who invented a freestanding hammock. His idea was just recreational, but I could envisage it as a one-man tent if it had a fly incorporated in it. It would be awesome for storing gear under you, and can you imagine it in the tropics? It would be fantastic.

All the campgrounds in the Northeast that I've ever been to have been anal-retentive in respect to trees on their property.

Oddly enough, I have only camped in two campgrounds in the NE! :eek: good to know.

I have just ordered a Hennesey Hammock and though i have not yet received it i do believe it will be awesome. My reasons:

1. Comfort! Anyone who says Hammocks are by definition uncomfortable has never slept in a good one/sideways and is basically saying most of the indigenous people of South America had it all wrong for centuries. ;) Nah but seriously Hammocks can be extremely comfortable if they are designed and used properly and horrid if not, just like any sleeping gear or shelter. On the Hennessey site there are many testimonials (and call me naieve but i believe them to be real) of super satisfied customers. They praise the comfort, even some people that had serious pains said they slept great on them, better than on their expensive beds!

2. No more MUD & Sand in yer friggin' sleeping den! I just to loathe that about tents.

3. Alledgly Hennessey Hammocks are amazing in terms of both comfort and waterproofing. Just check the independent review (and many other reviews) on
http://www.hikinghq.net/gear/hennessey_hammock.html

The guy that runs that site is a funny guy but also a respected and discerning hiker and millitary person (not used to shoddy survival gear) and he loves them and extensively and positively reviews all aspects of them. He even relates how he stayed perfectly dry and comfortable in a storm, while people in tents got flooded and soaked.

4. Though their design does little or no damage when used with trees they can quite easily be used on the ground/without trees. It is not ideal but no worse than a roomy bivouac sack or a super light/extra small tent.

1. California has a "Mediterranean" climate. The reason this term is used is because it is sunny and hot in the summer, but rainy and damp in the winter. Places like Barcelona and Naples have nearly all their precipitation in the winter months.

2. Mussolini was famous for two "achievements" - making the trains run on time and draining the swamps. Because much of the Mediterranean region has no freezing temperatures - but lots of water - mosquitoes can be a problem. Especially by spring.
Mosquitoes will definitely be a problem in areas of northern Europe in the summer - even more so in places where a person is likely to stealth camp.

3. Most European countries have "Vagabond Laws" which were historically used against Roma and Sinti (gypsies) but can be used against trespassers on private property.

To each his own I suppose. But I like using a 2 person free standing tent (REI Half Dome) for solo touring - I can set it up anywhere, no guy lines needed, no trees necessary, and it is roomy enough to stretch out in. I can also put my panniers in the tent next to me for easy access at night.

I second Thor29.
I use an 18yo, 3 person tent. I have all my gear in it and dry, I have privacy, I cook in it, change to my raingear on wet mornings, stretch in any sleeping position I like (I use an XL sleeping bag and mat).
And traveling for a long time around Europe (or anywhere else for that matter) I just think it would be beter in a tent.

I love my Hennessy and plan to continue using it on tour. However, I use primarily because I find it much more comfortable than a tent. When I hit fifty I started to get a little arthritis, and sleeping on a pad, even the best Thermarest, gives me hip pain. I don't have that problem in a Hennessy. If I were young, I'd be inclined to stick with a tent because of the added private space. But if you have any issues with back or joint pain, I'd definitely recommend a hammock.

I am not anti tent or anything, of course use whatever you like best! But just to clarify:

Hennessey hammocks are mosquito/bug proof, they have netting on top.

They seem to do very well in all kind of climates, even very hot and cold wheather though the latter requires you add a litte and very cheap insulation.

The laws against vagabonds and stealth camping apply equally to all types of shelters whenever anyone is stealth camping. An advantage of the Hennessey is that it can be taken down extremely quickly, way faster than even the best tents. They come in colors that are meant to blend and their sortoff organic shape makes them hard to see when set up wisely.

I also opted for the Hennesey because there is no way i could buy any tent of comparable weight (1175 grams) or quality for the price (under $ 120). For that price i i also got some really nifty add ons (see offer on site) too.

I have done a lot of tent camping and one thing i never liked much was waking uo in the morning feeling like you are in a steam cooker, tent is hot and moist, supposively Hennesey's don't have this problem and are still wheather proof. Sleeping with other people. Typically there might be at least one person that went to the toilet a lot, slept fitfully, went to bed earlier or got up earlier etc etc. Of course you could all take single person tents but that is reather ineffecient in terms of weight and bulk. In a Hennessey you have a private shelter. I do of course enjoy the camaderie of being in the outdoors together so it would be fun to bring a big tarp to all sit, eat and talk under before bedtime. The Henneseys' can then double as "chairs".

Mr_Bill is talking about stealth camping, so forget about campground rules. Also, he's talking about using a hammock in the winter in southern Europe, not the Yucatan during the summer (where the hammocks are both traditional and a smart way of sleeping comfortably in that climate). I personally have seen snowflakes fall along the Mediterranean in the winter. The idea of trying to sleep every night in a hammock at temperatures dropping to near freezing sounds completely crazy to me. And nobody has addressed the lack of trees in some area. I'll add another thing: steath camping near the Mediterranean will not always be easy, whether it's a hammock or a tent. The coast is overbuilt and population density is very high.

I am aware that Hennessey hammocks have mosquito netting and a rain fly - - but I am thinking about the hundreds of times I have had to spent more time than just sleeping in my tent - - i.e. when it is raining or when the bugs are fierce. I read a book, write cards, plan my route - all nice and dry without having to swat at mosquitos.

I also have some concern about damage to trees. Yes, the Hennessey uses straps, not nails, but if a tree has thin bark it could be ringed when full weight is exerted on the strap thru the night.

How about a silnylon tarptent with bug netting? About the same weight and pack size as a hammock but provides considerably more room and no issues with cold weather. My own feelings are that I think I would get pretty tired of sleeping in the tight quarters of a hammock in a short time.

Reading, writing cards, looking at maps this is not a problem at all in the Hammock from what i gather. Maybe it is important to point out that this Hammock is almost nothing like 'normal Hammocks'. In essence it is a lightweight small tent that is suspended and doubles as a sleeping platform (so you don't need a sleeping mat anymore either in warmer weather). It is also not at all like the hammocks made from netting or the ones that are too small or designed to lie in straight/like a banana and
that will hurt your back.

The tight quarters thing, sure i could see that, i think the Hennessey is relatively roomy (dimensions 100" x 48") but a tent is different of course. Personally i prefer using a tarp and possibly a fire (concealed/dug in when stealth camping) in order to not get claustrophobic, but i am camping with a few people and it makes sense to carry the tarp.

As for the other comments, not to be obtuse but i wish people would read a little sometimes before writing.

The lack of trees (and possibility of setting up a Hennessey without them) has already been adressed.

Additionally just because something sounds crazy does not mean it is not perfectly feasible. In fact cold wheather use of the Hennessey has been done by many hikers and comfortably.

Of the site i referred to (and the temperatures mentioned are extremely cold for the parts of Europe we are discussing and will probably never have to be endured btw):

"Update 17 December 2000

I recently returned from three weeks in the field using my hammock in temperatures down below freezing, lowest about 30 degrees. I experimented using both an Army synthetic 30 degree bag, and my 20+ year old down bag that is on it's last legs. I recommend the following tips:

1. Go ahead and take some stakes. I carried four, but never used more than two. It was convenient to have them, and for about 1oz in weight, they were worth it.

2. I tried my car sunscreen heat reflector with great results. I tried it outside the bag which seems to be warmer but harder to control, and inside the bag which was easiest to control but not as warm. Apparently to work well, there should be some insulation between you and the reflector in order for it to trap warm air created by your body and reflected by the sunscreen. I was warm everywhere except my butt which was the point of greatest compression on the sleeping bag. Next trip I intend to try my foam pad that has been trimmed down to 20"x36" on top of the reflector, all under the bag. I also think it's time to get a new bag!

3. For best weather (wind and rain) protection, set up in a draw. I set up in a draw with the windward side uphill, the hammock parallel to the draw, and not at the bottom where the runoff will go in case of a hard rain. It was pretty warm and dry under the hammock while changing clothing, cooking, etc.

4. For best sleeping and centering of my body in the bag, I found it helped to set up the hammock with the head 3"-4" lower than the feet.

5. I was contemplating getting a 8'x10' Siltarp to use instead of the standard one, but I found this to be unnecessary after some experimenting. The weight it would have added would be about 8oz for the tarp (leaving the fly behind), 6 stakes - 3oz, and some cord - about 2oz.

Conclusions: For my thru-hike, the ultralight will meet my requirements as shelter and sleeping system once I get a new sleeping bag.

The guy that wrote that review is a hardcore hiker that has used some of the nicest, best and warmest tents. I find it hard to believe he would designate the Hennessey his shelter of choice if he was cold or uncomfortable in it.

No one should be dissuaded from using a hammock by cold temps. I've kept warm with a closed cell foam pad down to the low 30s. There are readily available underpads/underquilts that will work at even lower temps.

No one should be dissuaded from using a hammock by cold temps. I've kept warm with a closed cell foam pad down to the low 30s. There are readily available underpads/underquilts that will work at even lower temps.
+1
I have camped in the snow below 10degF in my hammock - with a thermarest pad and a good mummy bag, cold is simply not an issue - at least no more so than for a tent - unless you are doing arctic exploring or something.

Ah thanks for chiming in with experiences from the field. I think it is clear then, camping in a (Hennessey) hammock in the cold is not crazy it is just fine. I suspect it may even be warmer than in a tent (with a bit of padding under your back) my reasons:

The nearer you get to the ground the colder it is, when i am lying in a tent and it is cold out i can really feel the cold being drawn up into my body/radiating upward from the soil. The Hammocks interior is smaller which may (not sure about this) mean that your own body heat will have more effect and reduce the cold in comparison with a tent.

Ah thanks for chiming in with experiences from the field. I think it is clear then, camping in a (Hennessey) hammock in the cold is not crazy it is just fine. I suspect it may even be warmer than in a tent (with a bit of padding under your back) my reasons:

The nearer you get to the ground the colder it is, when i am lying in a tent and it is cold out i can really feel the cold being drawn up into my body/radiating upward from the soil. The Hammocks interior is smaller which may (not sure about this) mean that your own body heat will have more effect and reduce the cold in comparison with a tent.

It is the dead air both of the sleeping pad and within an enclosed tent that will conserve your body heat. Even the solid ground underneath the pad will result in less heat being drained away than the continuous air movement around a hammock. Why do you think it feels so stifling in a hot, non-air-conditioned room indoors compared to sitting outside in the same air temperature? It's because of the air movement outside. That's why a hammock works so well in tropical weather. But here we're talking about cold temperatures. A tent will conserve a lot more heat than a hammock. The air moving around and thru the hammock will drain your body heat away much faster than if you were within a fully enclosed space, such as a tent. Remember, we're talking about "just under a year" including the entire winter in a non-tropical climate.

I live in Wyoming - I've camped in frigid conditions - down to 0 - and must stress that regardless of choice of sleeping arrangement - the fundamental factor in heat loss is area of exposure. The second factor - wind speed - diminished considerably in the area closest to the ground. Air has mass and it creates friction. Thus, a wind speed of 10 mph at 5 ft may be half that at 2 ft. That's why deer curl up and find low (but not the lowest) places to bed down in the depths of winter. Any given tent of similar insulating quality to a hammock will offer superior insulation. When you start adding other items - like pads and reflectors - you get to the point of wondering what weight or space savings the hammock might offer.

From this discussion, I could very well see the advantages of using a hammock for short tours in appropriate areas. But for a long tour such as the original poster suggested, a tent would offer the greatest flerxibility. There are, of course, a few who will prefer the hammock in almost any situation - and others who would never use one - but I believe most people on an extended tour would be best served by a good, lightweight tent.

It is the dead air both of the sleeping pad and within an enclosed tent that will conserve your body heat. Even the solid ground underneath the pad will result in less heat being drained away than the continuous air movement around a hammock. Why do you think it feels so stifling in a hot, non-air-conditioned room indoors compared to sitting outside in the same air temperature? It's because of the air movement outside. That's why a hammock works so well in tropical weather. But here we're talking about cold temperatures. A tent will conserve a lot more heat than a hammock. The air moving around and thru the hammock will drain your body heat away much faster than if you were within a fully enclosed space, such as a tent. Remember, we're talking about "just under a year" including the entire winter in a non-tropical climate.

There are insulated "undercovers" for Hennessey hammocks that are suspended below the hammock and provide the dead air space for insulation. From what I have read, most, if not all, of these are somewhat primitive and require a bit of fussing to get things aligned properly, close up any air gaps, etc. A better solution may be to simply pitch the hammock on the ground and use a sleeping pad when it's too cold for the hammock by itself. Or forget about the hammock and just pitch the tarp that comes with it and sleep under the tarp.

However, even if cold were not an issue, I suspect that unless the OP is a dedicated hammock camper, he may quickly tire of the hammock life. Regardless of it's size, when you are in a hammock it is rather confining as the sag prevents you from moving around and everything must be hung from the cord above or left outside. A traditional tent, or tarptent provides much more useable living space.

The worst thing about a hammock though may be that you can't easily share it with someone of the opposite sex. ;)

Some good point were raised, but most of what i have written as well as subsequent replies is debatable of course.

For example:

1. The Hennessey can be pitched very low to the ground or even on the ground if the wind factor is an issue.

2. Even IF it could be proven beyond a doubt that a Tent could be warmer in the most frigid condition, the OP stated he will be in the warmer southern areas in winter where serious cold is really a non issue.

3. The Car reflector thing that Hiker/military guy speaks of works well according to him and is easy to use, very light and extremely cheap.

4. The Opposite sex thing is a bummer ha ha, though they have an extra large Hammock that is more suitable but possibly! still not as comfy as a tent for two.

5. Cost & weight is still an important issue for me. Being able to dispense with the additional considerable cost of a tent of similair quality and possibly even the Thermarest are important factors to me.

But more importantly, I think the OP has enough info to make up his own mind and will have to consider his own needs and preferences above any comments (valid or not) that we might make. I don't think there is a best or worst choice as such, just a best or worst for each individual camper. But it is an interesting discussion.

The worst thing about a hammock though may be that you can't easily share it with someone of the opposite sex. ;)

Or the same sex. ;)

Nothing lights up this forum like a posting on hammocks. I'm going to put in my 'two cents worth'.

I hammock stealth camp using a Hennessy. I also do Leave No Trace. You never disturb the forest floor when you use a hammock. In the hundreds of times I have slung one in a forest I have not damaged the tree bark, but by all means bring some extra padding if that is a concern.

As far as the temperature concerns; it does require you to have some special equipment if you are camping above 05C. (Madrid had an over night low of -02C last night)I used to use those foil emergency blankets and just tie them around the tent. (You can find additional info on that in my tour diaries). If it is windy the noise keeps me awake. Everything sounds like a bear.


I recently purchased an emergency bivi bag from Mountain Equipment Coop. It is made of a similar material only is thicker and not at all noisey. It holds together with Velcro. That combined with wearing polyester fleece against my skin top and bottom, a reflective sleeping pad and a good down sleeping bag has kept me warm down to -05C. I haven't tried it any colder yet, but winter is just starting here.

Hennessy have their own add-on system; check out their web site

Hennessy's are asymmetrical, so it is not like sleeping in an ordinary hammock. You can sleep slightly across the suspension line and sleep much flatter. You get in from the bottom so nothing could be easier.

About the tree thing: Trees are only one of the things you can fasten to. The Hennessy I understand does make into a decent tent but I've never had to try it. I suggest you think about the staff trick, http://www.junglehammock.com/ease3.php
that is, suspending from at least one pole. When I was planning my last trip some members told me that southern England had been deforest years before and was so heavily crowded with people that there would be no place to stealth camp. What a load of poop! It turns out that once again the nay-sayers were wrong. The trees were so big around I had to make extensions for my tree huggers!

Go with what you think is right lad! I find stealth camping cyclists to be incredibly self reliant, so you'll make out fine.

I'm not sure you can completely argue the price here. A REI Half dome 2 tent only costs 169, which is just a bit more than a hammock and can easily accomodate 2 people if the need should arise.....

Well, sure that isn't soo much more but still 50 Dollars more and it requires you to buy a sleeping matt (even if you only intend to camp in fair wheather) and for it to be a fair comparison/even near the comfort of the Hennessey i'd say a Thermarest is in order.

So you end up spending about double for the same or lesser sleeping comfort and more comfort in terms of space. For me it's a no brainer. But i will echo stokell:

"Go with what you think is right".

How do you sleep face down in a hammock?

Lay on the diagonal.

People who say one can't lay staright in a hammock have obviously never seen a dolphin air-lifted out of a pool at Seaworld or the like.

How about do what I do.... Since the Hammock packs so small.. I bring my tent and my Hammock.... it's a win win situation.... so If I want to do some humping I can put my tent down... if I want to be in the trees, I can set up my hammock. :)


Cheers,

Coconut.

Yeh good point, that is what i'll be doing. I will take my hammock, my friend a tent, that way we can swap when needed or wanted.

I just bought a tent but wished I would have seen these first.

http://kifaru.net/TIPI.HTM

Holy cow. The best of both worlds. Ultralight and the "true outdoorsy feeling" of a hammock, but with the full coverage of a tent (minus the floor, which after having checked out the site for a while seems less and less important. )

The only problem is the price... but may be worth it. And the whole idea of having a totally portable and light wood burning stove in your tipi. So tight. Get the 4-man and put yer frickin' bike in there too! Alright, what am I gonna have to sell to get one of these? First of all, the tent I just bought...

BTW, I am not affiliated with this company. I just saw them mentioned in the Surly Blog and checked out their site.

I have read about those tents and the other Company that makes them: Tentipi. They most def. kick ass, but yeh the price is just not worth it to me. But if i camped lots or in very cold conditions it surely would be. I like the idea that in a pinch you could even use it as a semi permanent (emergency) shelter, they are suppossed to be That good. In such a scenario i might use them or a Yurt. Cool stuff. I am really curious how efficient their fold down wood stoves are, i imagine they can not be super efficient (a Bekkasinen Wood Stove is about 80% and the benchmark for high efficiency, much bettere than a Jotul and way lighter to boot) but if they are i might just even buy one for at home! I reckon they can't be super efficient because they were designed to be light and collapsible. Collapsible expecially usually means that there will be air leaking into the stove during use, this can reduce efficiency dramatically. Anybody happen to know this for sure or own one of these stoves?

The smallest tipi (4 man) still weighs over 5 lbs yet has no bug netting. I do like the way the sides roll up for ventillation though.

I'd rather use a simple silnylon tarp and inner bug net for half the weight.

If I want to do some humping I can put my tent down

I am dying over here. dying.

no questions a tent is better for humping - hammocks are solely solo.

I just wanted to reiterate that I used my (non-Hennesy) hammock setup for a tour down the entire pacific coast, which included a start in vancouver in March and snow at times, including two freak storms in the pac northwest which had me overnighting in well-below freezing conditions. always toasty. my kelty parabolic tarp nearly reaches the ground so wind is not really an issue.

my brother-in-law joined me for a section of the trip in oregon where it rained constantly. I was able to wipe off my tarp and pack it dry and he packed a wet tent every morning and opened a wet tent every night. in rain and cold, the hammock is better. (I dont' think this would include arctic-type conditions for the theoretical reasons posted early re: wind and being near the ground, etc.)

there are a lot of posts here from people who've never tried a hammock or seen one in use, saying they don't "seem" like they'd be good for x, y or z reason. People who have actually tried it are qualified to tell you whether it's dry enough, bug proof enough, warm enough, light enough, comfortable enough, etc. Others are just speculating or regurgitating.

sorry for the quasi-rant, but the addage is true "don't knock it 'til you try it."

@ Mr Socks, Yes yes, that's all very fine and dandy but did you sleep WITH your brother-in-law inside of the hammock? ;)

No seriously i fully agree, +10 to everything you wrote.

Amen Mr Socks.

Lay on the diagonal.

People who say one can't lay staright in a hammock have obviously never seen a dolphin air-lifted out of a pool at Seaworld or the like.No offense but: Your first line may be true but you second line is not rational. When a dolphin is air lifted the sling is not lifted by the 2 far ends but is attached to the hoist all along the middle.

No offense taken...

Laying on the diagonal is almost the same as the dolphin example because neither situation has the user lying along the rigid tension line. which is created between the two attachment points of the hammock.

I think I'm not making myself very clear. It would be easier if we had a hammock to lie in right now, then I could show it better. =)

No offense taken...

Laying on the diagonal is almost the same as the dolphin example because neither situation has the user lying along the rigid tension line. which is created between the two attachment points of the hammock.

I think I'm not making myself very clear. It would be easier if we had a hammock to lie in right now, then I could show it better. =)You're welcome to bring yours over here - I have the trees. :)
Seriously, I wish I could try one out. If it feels as good (to me) as all of you say, I would get one right away. I'm just concerned that it would not be comfortable _for me_. I think that if some local camping store would set one up it would sell faster.

It's mostly a case of don't nock it till you have bought it. Which is a bigger issue. Someone wants to lend me one that is another mater. Sleeping is a very personal thing, and over the years I have got on well with certain approches and not so well with others. The fact someone tells you their space foam matress is devine, or they like to sleep on a board, doesn't really carry that much weight with me.

The one thing I don't get is why one doesn't get bitten by bugs from the underside. Ok, if one is lying on a sleeping bag, but that creates problems of it's own. Like in most hot weather I want a little on the top too, so here I am with it all around me sweltering. In the tent I'm protected by the ground. DOes it have a double layer. i mean it is designed for the tropics, it must work. I;m going to get one, but I intend to carry my minimal tent also. That is pretty much my only luxury, bivy alternatives.

Floors are very necesarry in my opinion, both to keep bugs out, and when you get caught at some camp ground with the usual mudhole tent sites. In the end one has a ground sheet, and it doesn't work as well.

I'd love to try a Kifaru in the winter, but I wouldn't try it in bug or Bushmaster land. Thos bad boys can get in an up and over anything.