Commuting - Strong wind/gusts strategies

To continue LittleBigMan's theme :)

Any advice from the experienced for commuting in strong wind or gusts?

The last couple of days on the way home I've been attacked by gusts coming from the side that've made my bike wobble considerably and once almost lose my balance. I'm not sure how to deal with it (my commuter's pretty light - 22 lbs).

Get a heavier commuter.
And spin faster. If you just coast, you're relying on your mass and gyro to keep you straight. If you spin, you're actively shifting around and dynamically rebalancing. I usually gear down one when I know I'm about to be hit by a gust of wind; like if you see dust blowing sideways at an intersection in front of you. Just get down low, spin, and pray that it doesn't exceed 70mph...

With an all up weight of around 275 - 280 pounds when I commute the only problem I have with wind is the morning after curry night :p

What Slvoid said is good, also keep as wide a grip on the bars as you can and just make sure you have room to move so you can recover safely.

Any advice from the experienced for commuting in strong wind or gusts?



Try not to fall off

Try not to fall off

haha yeah, I don't really want to fall off, do I? :D



And spin faster. If you just coast, you're relying on your mass and gyro to keep you straight. If you spin, you're actively shifting around and dynamically rebalancing.

My dilemma was exactly that: spin faster to keep my momentum or follow my initial instincts and slow down. Thanks for the advice.

Fall from the bike .... it seems to work ok for me in order to fight the wind

To continue LittleBigMan's theme :)

Any advice from the experienced for commuting in strong wind or gusts?

The last couple of days on the way home I've been attacked by gusts coming from the side that've made my bike wobble considerably and once almost lose my balance. I'm not sure how to deal with it (my commuter's pretty light - 22 lbs).
That doesn't sound too nice. Heavier bike and pedal faster to get home quicker!!!! :D

Fall from the bike .... it seems to work ok for me in order to fight the wind

so, I do want to fall off? Really? Hmmm, ok that's good to know

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...
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you people are just messing with my head, aren't you?! :p :D

I think spinning faster is the way to go in strong winds. We must respect and pay attention to wind. I have a 20 mile out and back route I often take. Last year, I was really hauling on the out portion of my ride. I didn't realize the wind was at my back. On the return, the strong winds cut my average speed 25%. Bummer!

I think bike geometry is much more critical then weight. Lazy angles (as on touring bikes, cruisers, european commuter bikes) mean more caster and greater stability. Other than that, its all a matter bike handling skills, which improve with practice. I've not noticed any benefit from spinning.

Paul

If you can do anything to reduce the side area for the wind to hit that will help.
If there is a wall get closer to the wall if it blocks the wind, or get lower on the bike.
Just be as alert as possible and react quickly.

If you have a loaded rack bag or a big back pack, replace them with a pannier or two.
The weight is lower where it belongs making the bike easier to balance and the sail effect of the bag is down low and has less leverage on you.

Pretty much just echoing what's been said...but if you got drop bars stay on the hoods. Keep your hands as wide out as possible for greater control.

I'd imagine a heavier ride would be helpful...but I've never really ridden a light ride. My bike's a tank. :D

Keep low.

My opinion of panniers is different than 2Many's. The sail effect of panniers for me can be pretty profound at times. I found moving to a messenger bag has helped me on wind days since a messenger bag I think has a lower lateral profile than a backpack.

Keep spinning; definitely helps with maintaining balance.

I read something recently - I think from roadbikerider.com - that dealt with this issue. the only bit I remember (because it was such good advice that rang true for me, especially after riding down the Pac Coast through some unbelievable wind) is to stay relaxed and not fight the wind too much. a steady wind is usually no problem - you will naturally lean into it without even thinking - but gusts can be scary. the tip was to "go with the gust" and not react too fiercely, since a gust by its nature will let up, and then you'll be potentially dangerously off balance. I'm off to find the article now.

If you can do anything to reduce the side area for the wind to hit that will help.
If there is a wall get closer to the wall if it blocks the wind, or get lower on the bike.
Just be as alert as possible and react quickly.

If you have a loaded rack bag or a big back pack, replace them with a pannier or two.
The weight is lower where it belongs making the bike easier to balance and the sail effect of the bag is down low and has less leverage on you.

Right idea on the bags but in the wrong direction. Coming from a place that has regular windstorms with steady winds of 60 mph and gust to, occasionally, over 100 mph and having been caught in them a time or two, I can tell you that you want to reduce the sail area by getting a smaller bag on the rack. Panniers would be like putting up spinakers! In wind you need to reef the sails not put more sail on.

Ditch a backpack (you shouldn't be riding with a back pack in the first place ;) ) and get a medium sized rack trunk instead.

To continue LittleBigMan's theme :)

Any advice from the experienced for commuting in strong wind or gusts?

The last couple of days on the way home I've been attacked by gusts coming from the side that've made my bike wobble considerably and once almost lose my balance. I'm not sure how to deal with it (my commuter's pretty light - 22 lbs).

Side winds are a bear to deal with. Trust me, I know of what I speak. The bike weight isn't going have that much effect since, unless you are willing to get a bike and load that go to over 3000 lb (or more), you can't avoid wind effects. We regularly have 80,000 lb trucks blown over here in Colorado so a little more weight of a bicycle frame isn't going to do that much.

What you need to look at is contact. More rubber in contact with the road will help some since increased friction will keep you from being blown off course more than added weight. For a light bike like yours (assuming that you are riding a road bike), you probably have fairly narrow tires. If you are riding 25mm tires go to a 30 or 35 (if they will fit). Get something that is a sticky compound tire too.

You also need to reduce your side profile. If you are wearing loose or flappy clothing, trade if for a closer fit. If you are carrying panniers trade them for a rack bag. If you use a messager bag or back pack trade it for a rack bag. The rack bag has a smaller profile to the side and puts less wind pressure on your wheels.

Wind will generally come at you not in a steady stream but in bursts and gusts, even in Portland. Learn how to read these gusts so that you can prepare yourself for them. Look upwind and see if there is a lot of movement of leaves or dust or grass or trees. If you see more movement then around you, try to lean into the gust until it passes. Going faster or spinning isn't really going to help but bracing yourself for the blast will. Also, as someone else has suggested, try to shelter yourself by using objects as wind breaks. Any object that is in the wind will cause a "wind shadow" of up to 3 times it's height in the wind. This will be a turbulent area that will have less force than the main gust. Trees, houses, building, walls and all kinds of other stuff can be used.

You can also try "quartering" the wind, attempt to go up wind for a while, at an angle if possible, and then turn and go down wind. This may require a change in your route to and from work.

And, if all else fails, you can throw in the towel and ride the bus home. Fighting wind is one of the hardest things we cyclists have to do. There is no shame in admitting defeat. Trust me, when you've ridden in a near 100 mph wind, you'd rather face any hill on the planet ;) You'll even drive a car to work :eek:

Get down in the drops if you have drop bars on your bike. It will make your body less of a sail and put your center of gravity lower.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

Follow the wind where ever it may take you.

What you need to look at is contact. More rubber in contact with the road will help some since increased friction will keep you from being blown off course more than added weight. For a light bike like yours (assuming that you are riding a road bike), you probably have fairly narrow tires. If you are riding 25mm tires go to a 30 or 35 (if they will fit). Get something that is a sticky compound tire too.

actually I ride a cross bike with 30 mm tires. I'm seriously considering studded but the weather's just not bad enough for those yet



You also need to reduce your side profile. If you are wearing loose or flappy clothing, trade if for a closer fit. If you are carrying panniers trade them for a rack bag. If you use a messager bag or back pack trade it for a rack bag. The rack bag has a smaller profile to the side and puts less wind pressure on your wheels.

I only have a camelbag but my clothes are quite flappy, the waterproof ones in particular.

Anyway, thanks for the advice! The gusts I've experienced aren't nearly as strong as the wind you've had had to deal with but I wasn't prepared I guess.

So what I'll be going for is keep spinning, stay low, don't fight it, no jerky movements, reduce side profile. These are very helpful tips. Thanks :D

So what I'll be going for is keep spinning, stay low, don't fight it, no jerky movements, reduce side profile. These are very helpful tips. Thanks :D

I actually have a different route for the extreme wind days. It's a bit shorter than my usual one, but it goes through neighborhoods with big houses and big trees which take the brunt of the heavy gusts off the ride.

aero helmet...

The reason why trucks get blown over is, if you imagine a sheet 8ft x 20ft catching the wind... that's nearly 23000 square inches.
1 psi of over pressure is over 11 tons pushing on the side of the truck.

Spin, and get out of the wind, or just get a bike sail.

http://www.fly-in.com/bikesail-2.jpg

The reason why trucks get blown over is, if you imagine a sheet 8ft x 20ft catching the wind... that's nearly 23000 square inches.
1 psi of over pressure is over 11 tons pushing on the side of the truck.

Trust me, at over 80mph anything with a profile larger than a postage stamp gets blown over! By the way, 11 tons is only 22000 lbs. Semis typically weigh 80,000 lbs loaded. Even unloaded they weigh around 25,000 lbs or more.

That's why most semi trailers are shaped like turtle shells now, they're more aerodynamic from both the front and side.


Trust me, at over 80mph anything with a profile larger than a postage stamp gets blown over! By the way, 11 tons is only 22000 lbs. Semis typically weigh 80,000 lbs loaded. Even unloaded they weigh around 25,000 lbs or more.

Consider an unfaired recumbent trike. I have used one both faired and unfaired in Colorado, Nevada, and California. Much more stable unfaired. 32 inch wheel-base AND much lower center of gravity. Two-wheelers can not even compare. A fairing could be specifically designed to give stability enhancing downthrust like some racing cars. Unfortunately that adds drag even when you are not fighting the wind.

To continue LittleBigMan's theme :)

Any advice from the experienced for commuting in strong wind or gusts?

The last couple of days on the way home I've been attacked by gusts coming from the side that've made my bike wobble considerably and once almost lose my balance. I'm not sure how to deal with it (my commuter's pretty light - 22 lbs).

Interesting topic. Living in the mid-west we have wind instead of Mountains and gusts are a problem. Ok a little physics need to be looked at to understand this….sorry if don’t like physics.

Think about this. A gust of wind and it’s effect on a cyclist is most depend on your profile/surface area that the wind is hitting. A wind from the front varies the energy required to maintain a certain speed. A tail wind will reduce the energy needed to maintain a certain speed. But neither a head or tail wind change your direction or make you wobble because they don’t make the bike lean.

If you are riding a straight course the energy needed to break tire contact and move the bike straight sideways and not change course is almost impossible and would really have to lift you and the bike.

The reason for the wobble is that a gust of wind from your right side, makes you lean to the left. A bike tire unlike a auto or truck tire has a curved profile and it is that profile that makes your bike turn when it is leaned. Most of the time (when ridding at speed) we change our direction by leaning the bike more than turning the bars. Only at slow speed do we need to turn the bars very much.

In a steady wind from the right side you lean just a little to the right (without thinking about) and hold your line.

With gusts from your right your bike is forced into left lean because the tires hold but your upper body is pushed left and the bike starts to go left. Once your body mass is left of center it is almost impossible to lean fast and far enough right to straighten it out. Your only real option is to correct your course by turning the bars to the right, and that will put the bike in a unnatural situation that makes you/it wobble. The slower you ride the less effect a side wind has on you due to the fact you don’t travel as far when forced into a lean.

You can duplicate the effect of a wind gust wobble on a day with no wind by getting your bike up to speed and then trying to hold a straight line while leaning (the bike) to the left and turning the bars to the right to keep your line.

From my experience a bike with 36 spokes per wheel is much harder for me to control in sides gusts than the same bike with 18 spokes in front and 20 in the back. My carbon frame tubes have almost twice as large of a side profile of my steel bike. In wind my steel bike and Rolf wheels with few spokes are my best bet for control. But above 35 mile an hour side winds I won’t ride and if out and the wind starts I want a lot of room between me and the traffic on the down wind side.

Ok I need to get a life…..

Cheers

Put rocks in your pockets. Learn routes that are less exposed to the wind. Change your angle relative to the wind briefly if you can. Adopt an aerodynamic position, especially for headwinds. Get stronger and more experienced. Learn to ignore the psychological effects of wind. Don't let the roaring in your ears drive you crazy. (For real.)

Peregrine, I just realized... you're not riding with these wheels are you?
http://www.bikerevuk.com/zipp/disc.jpg

my clothes are quite flappy, the waterproof ones in particular.

There is the culprit ... I am in the process of tailoring my own wind jacket. The flapping drives me nuts. Either tailoring or gain weight! :D

Peregrine, I just realized... you're not riding with these wheels are you?
http://www.bikerevuk.com/zipp/disc.jpg

:roflmao: no.

...
In a steady wind from the right side you lean just a little to the right (without thinking about) and hold your line.

With gusts from your right your bike is forced into left lean because the tires hold but your upper body is pushed left and the bike starts to go left. Once your body mass is left of center it is almost impossible to lean fast and far enough right to straighten it out. Your only real option is to correct your course by turning the bars to the right, and that will put the bike in a unnatural situation that makes you/it wobble. The slower you ride the less effect a side wind has on you due to the fact you don’t travel as far when forced into a lean.

You can duplicate the effect of a wind gust wobble on a day with no wind by getting your bike up to speed and then trying to hold a straight line while leaning (the bike) to the left and turning the bars to the right to keep your line.

From my experience a bike with 36 spokes per wheel is much harder for me to control in sides gusts than the same bike with 18 spokes in front and 20 in the back. My carbon frame tubes have almost twice as large of a side profile of my steel bike. In wind my steel bike and Rolf wheels with few spokes are my best bet for control. But above 35 mile an hour side winds I won’t ride and if out and the wind starts I want a lot of room between me and the traffic on the down wind side.

Ok I need to get a life…..

Cheers

Dusk, thanks for the explanation, it was interesting to read. What you're saying makes sense. I hadn't though about the number of spokes but you're right that it would make a difference.

There's something I'm not quite clear about. So you're saying that my body is what gets pushed by the gust? What I've felt when hit by a gust is that I sort of lose control of my front tire (that is, I can't keep it straight). Till now I thought that was because most of my weight is on the rear one and you think it's because my body is leaning because of the gust, am I right?

you people are just messing with my head, aren't you?! :p :D

Hook one knee over the saddle, same hand on the stem, lay along side the bike like you're a wild Indian using your pony for cover while attacking a wagon train, pedal with your free hand, this will lower your profile and your wind resistance. ;)

Hook one knee over the saddle, same hand on the stem, lay along side the bike like you're a wild Indian using your pony for cover while attacking a wagon train, pedal with your free hand, this will lower your profile and your wind resistance. ;)


You forgot...shoot under the down tube with your revolver at the bad guys! :)

Last night’s wind was exceptionally tough, even for my local low-lying flat barrier island between the ocean and the bay. The thing of it is while commuting home, I wanted to ride a little bit so I went into the wind, figuring the ride back would be cake. It wasn’t. No matter which direction the bike went, wind was coming at me in random, strong bursts. I got pushed around a little bit. The bike had a trunk bag in the rear, nothing more. I had on a wind breaker, but it wasn’t breaking wind.

Dusk, thanks for the explanation, it was interesting to read. What you're saying makes sense. I hadn't though about the number of spokes but you're right that it would make a difference.

There's something I'm not quite clear about. So you're saying that my body is what gets pushed by the gust? What I've felt when hit by a gust is that I sort of lose control of my front tire (that is, I can't keep it straight). Till now I thought that was because most of my weight is on the rear one and you think it's because my body is leaning because of the gust, am I right?

Your body and the bike get pushed into a lean that puts you on the side of the tire not the center and you have to steer right to correct while leaning to the left.
You got it.

Cheers,
Dusk

Hook one knee over the saddle, same hand on the stem, lay along side the bike like you're a wild Indian using your pony for cover while attacking a wagon train, pedal with your free hand, this will lower your profile and your wind resistance.


You forgot...shoot under the down tube with your revolver at the bad guys! :)

:roflmao: :roflmao:

yeah, that's right!! shoot all them mutha f'ers who try to cut me off!

Let the bike turn downwind a little bit. That will quickly get a lean into the wind.

I wish I had big gusts of wind in my area. All these suicidal Truckers get pretty boring after awhile...

Give me a clean, constant headwind over a dirty, gusty sidewind any time!

Look ahead for terrain features or buildings that can affect a sidewind. Think about what will happen when you ride into/out of the wind shadow of a building or hedgerow. You may find yourself leaning into a sidewind that's suddenly not htere anymore.

To continue LittleBigMan's theme :)

Any advice from the experienced for commuting in strong wind or gusts?

The last couple of days on the way home I've been attacked by gusts coming from the side that've made my bike wobble considerably and once almost lose my balance. I'm not sure how to deal with it (my commuter's pretty light - 22 lbs).

Hang on tight!