Southern California - So Cal Ride for Apple Pie...Mt Palomar to Julian and back

ovoleg's training now? Why the change of attitude? Glad to see you're taking on a few hills beforehand. And The Fixer, I can't wait for your pictures. I've only driven that route, and it's really pretty. A friend of mine who I drove along that route for sightseeing (a longtime friend with better fashion sense; she's picking out my jeans and shorts if I finish the pie ride) told me it was a great scenic drive to take a date on. :)

ovoleg's training now? Why the change of attitude? Glad to see you're taking on a few hills beforehand. And The Fixer, I can't wait for your pictures. I've only driven that route, and it's really pretty. A friend of mine who I drove along that route for sightseeing (a longtime friend with better fashion sense; she's picking out my jeans and shorts if I finish the pie ride) told me it was a great scenic drive to take a date on. :)

Actually I just wanted to join the "medium" group ride but I got side tracked...

I joined the slow people at first and realized it would be a waste of time, but since I woke up at 7:30...I wanted to ride with a group, so I backtracked and joined with a group that was heading north'ish


The guys are cool and it was really fun, I wasn't dead last but I was toward the back...I think I am going to start joining this group, much funner IMO.

I don't train :D, I just have fun...I don't like to think of this as work

I don't train :D, I just have fun...

I see. Don't worry, you can climb hills without it being "training". It can still be "fun". :lol: And tomorrow, I'll have great fun (at least I think so) climbing a few big hills, and hopefully, dog hair can join me in the fun.

I see. Don't worry, you can climb hills without it being "training". It can still be "fun". :lol: And tomorrow, I'll have great fun (at least I think so) climbing a few big hills, and hopefully, dog hair can join me in the fun.

I just got back from a quick 3 mile training ride with my daughter to the church and back.;) It did give me a chance to check out the "new" compact crank. Boy is low gear low, if this doesn't do the trick then I'm really dead meat. Jason, I PM'd you back, just send me your route.

Ralph

What about Saturday? Our ride's on Saturday the 28th. :) You could come along just to enjoy the spectacle. ;)

Okay, how many miles will this ride be and will there be any bailout points for those of us who cannot make the entire ride?

It's a long long shot that I could free up enough time to do this ride but if I could do a shorter route I might get the go ahead from the Mrs.

I rode 35 miles this morning with a friend of mine and we took a fairly hilly route today. Rode from my house to El Camino Real right off Oceanside Blvd and took El Camino Real south to Palomar Airport Rd, down to the coast and up to the harbor at which point we took the bike path inland to the end and then up to my house again in Rancho Del Oro. It took us about 2 hours and I loved the hills. I must have more hills!!! :D

Okay, how many miles will this ride be...
:lol: It's funny that there's been so many rides mentioned in this thread that one could easily lose track of the fact that this tread exists because of one particular ride. I almost wanted to post a reminder this morning that next Saturday, the 28th, is the Apple Pie Century. :D

I must have more hills!!! :D
Well, we start at 6:30 AM, and the start of the ride is a climb of Palomar, this little hill out in northeast San Diego county. ;)

:lol: It's funny that there's been so many rides mentioned in this thread that one could easily lose track of the fact that this tread exists because of one particular ride. I almost wanted to post a reminder this morning that next Saturday, the 28th, is the Apple Pie Century. :D

Well, we start at 6:30 AM, and the start of the ride is a climb of Palomar, this little hill out in northeast San Diego county. ;)

I don't know if I'm up for a century yet. Most I've ridden is 50 miles at one time and that was mostly flat.

I'd like to do Mt. Palomar though. Maybe I could meet up with you guys and just turn around at about 30 miles.

Edit-I have put over 1,000 miles on my bike since the end of August though. Still, I don't think this is enough training for a century.

Hey all you guys (and gals) out there in So. Cal. Good luck. Enjoy your ride tomorrow.

I can't feel my legs and I am still a bit dizzy...

I might not ride tommorow, we'll see how I feel :(

I don't know if I'm up for a century yet. Most I've ridden is 50 miles at one time and that was mostly flat.

I'd like to do Mt. Palomar though. Maybe I could meet up with you guys and just turn around at about 30 miles.

Edit-I have put over 1,000 miles on my bike since the end of August though. Still, I don't think this is enough training for a century.


If I'm not mistaken it actually comes out to 120 miles, but who's counting?

Ralph

PS I just looked at the forcast for Valley Center for the morning of the ride...just, just above freezing. :eek:

Hey Ovoleg, your ride Saturday, were you with the SFVBC out of CSUN? I was on that ride and a bunch of us turned around and went south. Did you go to Sierra Highway?

I don't know if I'm up for a century yet. Most I've ridden is 50 miles at one time and that was mostly flat.

I'd like to do Mt. Palomar though. Maybe I could meet up with you guys and just turn around at about 30 miles.

Edit-I have put over 1,000 miles on my bike since the end of August though. Still, I don't think this is enough training for a century.

Hey SD Rider & any others that might like a shorter route,
You have a couple of options:
Option 1 (out n' back): Start with the group, and do the Palomar climb, turn-around and go back the same way. This would be a 34 mile ride if you turn-around at the South Grade/East Grade junction. It makes it roughly 43 miles if you opt to ride all the way to the observatory (it's on our route slip, but I'm thinking some guys may skip it?).

Option 2 (Palomar Loop): Start with the group, and do the Palomar Climb, descend East Grade and return Northwest on Hwy 76. This makes for a 49 mile loop, or ~58 miles if you ride to the observatory. I don't know how Hwy 76 is for cycling between the bottom of East Grade back to the start of South Grade. Maybe the locals (Dog Hair, Jschen) could chime in on this.

If anyone wants to do a short route like this, let me know, I'd be happy to make some route slips.

Is there anything between option 2 and 120 miles, including pie?...:D

Is there anything between option 2 and 120 miles, including pie?...:D
Not really :p
It's possible that it's a little shorter to backtrack up Hwy 76 to Valley Center, from Julian. I think it would be only slightly shorter, and you wouldn't have the group and a sag car. Once you've made it as far as Mesa Grande, I'd say you're pretty much committed. We'll be fine :D

Edit: You can knock off about 9-10 miles by skipping the out-n-back to the observatory at the top of the Palomar climb

potential rest stops for pie:

- store at the begining of palomar
- store at the top of palomar
- store at lake henshaw between palomar and mesa grande
- store at santa ysabel before julian climb(first chance for pie (http://www.julianpie.com/cgi-bin/ePages.filereader?43d280730013256e0000c0a801420600+EN/catalogs/113072))
- julian(pie actual (http://www.momspiesjulian.com/))
- store at santa ysabel again
- ramona(long way from santa ysabel)

after that, i have no idea...
Thanks Dog Hair!
Let's plan on using the Lake Henshaw store, any idea what the name of the store is?? I didn't realize that there was a Julian Pie Company in Santa Ysabel, I think that's right next to Dudley's bakery. We could take a poll and see if everyone wants to get pie there, and skip the Julian climb (BTW, I didn't realize it was a climb up Hwy 79 to Julian, on G-Maps, it shows it to be an addtional 1,200' of climbing, bringing the day's total closer to 10,000). What do you guys think? I could go either way, is the climb to Julian worthwhile, as far as scenery and terrain go?

I will ride whatever the group decides. I have scheduled the whole day for it. I hope my legs have! My goals are scenery, laughs and pie - in any order. I have never been in that area before... so I'm not much help. I rode the COMO (1::40) street ride today and the wind was nasty. I hope it dies before saturday.

The wind was definitly nasty!

I have the whole day off for Saturday,

the short ride would be a logistical nightmare for sag, if there was to be two routes it would have to be a same route for say 20 miles then turn around, no SAG on the way back for the short group. I have enough questions in regards to the way SAG will work for the ride in the first place (I.e. ride behind the main group of riders (the peloton), hang back and pass ocassionally, waiting until the riders pass, etc. It really depends on how much the riders fragment also.

I think PIE should be the award for people who make it the full 10k of climbing!

I think PIE should be the award for people who make it the full 10k of climbing!


Ahh....don't say that!...:)
I'm hoping to get PIE with bare minimum effort.....:D

The wind was definitly nasty!

I have the whole day off for Saturday,

the short ride would be a logistical nightmare for sag, if there was to be two routes it would have to be a same route for say 20 miles then turn around, no SAG on the way back for the short group. I have enough questions in regards to the way SAG will work for the ride in the first place (I.e. ride behind the main group of riders (the peloton), hang back and pass ocassionally, waiting until the riders pass, etc. It really depends on how much the riders fragment also.

I think PIE should be the award for people who make it the full 10k of climbing!
Hey 58,
We can discuss the Sag tactics later this week. I think leapfrogging the group would work best. If the group splits into two groups, which I think it will, and then we'll regroup frequently, then I would drive up to the lead group, follow them for a short while and then stop and wait for the others and repeat. Any riders that opt for a short route will be without support after leaving the main route. If you refill two bottles at the top of Palomar or at the bottom of East Grade, that should be plenty to get you back.

Nosra451- Is your wife still going to be driving the rote as well?

She is willing if we need her otherwise she will sleep-in.

Forget the Apple pie. for a break stop at the Henneshaw Cafe and have the apple/cinnamon/walnut pancakes.

I did my final training ride today. It was also a celebratory ride for reaching half a year of cycling. :) I took dog hair's ride idea, but shortened it a bit since it was looking to be a bit of a stretch to finish his crazy ride before it got dark. Climbed Palomar (South Grade), descended (East Grade), climbed back up, descended back to the car, climbed back up South Grade, and descended back to the car. :D I wasn't out to set any speed records, so I did it all at a relaxed pace that I feel like I could keep up indefinitely. (My two climbs of South Grade, separated by 5.5 hours, had times within 10 minutes of each other.) The ride set personal records for distance (70 miles), climbing (11-12k feet?), and saddle time (7:40--yeah, I was pretty slow today). My solo training ride two weeks ago held the previous records, at 68 miles, 5-6k feet, and 5:30. Given that I feel great other than a bit of soreness in the lower back (less sore than two weeks ago, though), I am feeling good about the pie ride. :D

Oh, and I had a chance to test my new cold weather gear (not quite enough to be comfy descending East Grade in the early morning, but otherwise, I'm fine). I had never felt as cold on a bike as I did descending East Grade, nor had I ever dealt with crosswinds of the magnitude I experienced today.

By the way, I hate Palomar. It is a bit easier than Baldy, but it has lots of curveballs to throw at you. The terrain is hard to read since the grade is relatively constant, it's hard to see what's ahead since there's so many switchbacks (more of a problem going down, but also a nuisance going up since you don't know whether it gets steeper or it levels out), and the wind is variable in strength and direction. Also, the whole ride basically looks the same (other than a brief section just before the start of South Grade), so I think it will be extremely hard to ever become as familiar with the climb as I am with, say, Baldy. Can't wait to try a Palomar century sometime (as opposed to my Palomar metric today) once I'm somewhat faster and daylight hours get longer. :D

I have no opinion as to whether we should climb into Julian. I don't care what the route is as long as it's a century. (I've done a more climb-intensive ride already, so I'm not in it to set personal climbing records, but I am still looking forward to my first century!) And for SDRider's options, I have no clue what CA-76 from East Grade back is like. That said, it's worth considering since for someone not extremely familiar with South Grade, the descent can be a bit tricky. (Most corners you can take flat out, but everything looks the same, so unless you're extremely familiar with the descent, you have to treat every corner as if it might be a 200 degree decreasing radius corner.)

Almost forgot... I started at 6:30 AM this morning in order to properly test my cold weather gear. At that time in the morning, it's COLD out there! Even descending East Grade at 9 AM it was really cold. (That was when I felt coldest, in fact.) And it's supposed to be colder on Saturday. As before, if you have extra cold weather stuff, please consider bringing it so that those of us without sufficient gear might be able to borrow some!

I think 100 mi. is about equal to a round trip from La Jolla to Julian, via Miramar Rd, Poway, Romona (the old Julian Hwy), Santa Ysabelle; and, a round trip from Pt. Loma to Julian is about 140 mi.

I think 100 mi. is about equal to a round trip from La Jolla to Julian, via Miramar Rd, Poway, Romona (the old Julian Hwy), Santa Ysabelle; and, a round trip from Pt. Loma to Julian is about 140 mi.
Yup, that sounds about right.

By the way, thinking some more, I certainly wouldn't mind if we skip Julian. 10,000 feet of climbing would mean five hours of climbing! (based on the ~2,000 feet/hour I managed today) While I'm game for that, I certainly wouldn't mind cutting a bit of it out. We'd also cut out about 1.5 hours ride time (and potentially something like 2 hours total since we'd be cutting out at least one stopping point), which would make for a significantly more relaxed ride. Much less of a rush, and much more likely we won't have to do significant ridiing in the dark.

Yup, that sounds about right.

By the way, thinking some more, I certainly wouldn't mind if we skip Julian. 10,000 feet of climbing would mean five hours of climbing! (based on the ~2,000 feet/hour I managed today) While I'm game for that, I certainly wouldn't mind cutting a bit of it out. We'd also cut out about 1.5 hours ride time (and potentially something like 2 hours total since we'd be cutting out at least one stopping point), which would make for a significantly more relaxed ride. Much less of a rush, and much more likely we won't have to do significant ridiing in the dark.


My fat azz is with Jason on this one. Will it still be a hundred miles though?

Ralph

Will it still be a hundred miles though [if we don't go to Julian]?
As long as we make the side trip to the observatory on Palomar, yes.

As long as we make the side trip to the observatory on Palomar, yes.
Without the trip to Julian, it's 106 miles. It would be the exact same route as 2004 Tour de Cure Palomar Challenge. I could swing either way on going to Julian or not, as long as I get me some PIE! :D I have never rode through Julian before, and I've heard it's great, but Jschen makes a good point regarding time.

I wish I could go :( as I have just re-re-relocated back to SD.
I have an exam prep on that week end.
When is part II? I'd love to ride or help out.

Jesse

Without the trip to Julian, it's 106 miles.

I think I can handle that, including a couple slices of PIE, some coffee, some picture taking, some laughs, the climbing, and not having to worry about losing daylight.......after all, it will be a cold, moonless night....:D:)

You could skip the final climb into Julian and get pie at the junction of 78 and 79 at the Julian Pie Co. OBTW you should be climbing Palomar early enough, but be careful, a sunny Sat morning on either grade is the playground for sport bikes. I know that Harley riders like me even avoid the front side on the weekends because the sport bike guys blow by us. Furthermore, be very careful on the decent, local residents are known to spread sand, and even oil in the corners to discourage the motorcyclists, there was even a CHP advisory on it earlier this year. Also watch those corners on the way down; there are several decreasing radius corners that will catch you unaware. Wish I had enough saddle time to try it with you, but I consider that a pretty nice Harley ride... let alone on the road bike.

I think I can handle that, including a couple slices of PIE, some coffee, some picture taking, some laughs, the climbing, and not having to worry about losing daylight.......after all, it will be a cold, moonless night....:D:)

Unless we hear a bunch of protest from everyone else, let's plan on the 106 mile route, without the Julian trip. Anyone else care to voice their opinion regarding this??

You could skip the final climb into Julian and get pie at the junction of 78 and 79 at the Julian Pie Co. OBTW you should be climbing Palomar early enough, but be careful, a sunny Sat morning on either grade is the playground for sport bikes. I know that Harley riders like me even avoid the front side on the weekends because the sport bike guys blow by us. Furthermore, be very careful on the decent, local residents are known to spread sand, and even oil in the corners to discourage the motorcyclists, there was even a CHP advisory on it earlier this year. Also watch those corners on the way down; there are several decreasing radius corners that will catch you unaware. Wish I had enough saddle time to try it with you, but I consider that a pretty nice Harley ride... let alone on the road bike.

Thanks for the heads up, your suggestion about skipping Julian and getting pie at the 78/79 junction is the way we're leaning. I deal with the crotch rocket guys on Glendora Ridge Road and Baldy as well, I guess it comes with riding the fun twisty roads. If I remember correctly, East Grade has mellower, sweeping turns, rather than the tighter switchbacks of South Grade. Still, we'll watch out for sand, oil, and vehicles that "cut" the corners.

On new years when I rode over Old Topanga, I saw over 40 cars(mostly Porsche's, some Mini's, Ferrari's and other nice cars) racing through the canyons. I was pretty much the only one on the road at that time(around 10:00am). Well, I didn't think too much of it until they started taking corners like maniacs, I almost called the cops.

I just want people to stick together. Regroup points on all major climbs and major descents.

This should be a fun experience guys, dont sweat it :)

The bikers weren't a problem for me, but I did give them a very wide berth (even if they were on the other side of the road) through the corners just in case one of them lost control. More of an issue on South Grade. They ride rather aggressively, but happily, you can hear them coming. OC, I deal with crotch rockets on Baldy too, but it's nothing like on Palomar. The turns are much tighter, and many groups of riders blast through the switchbacks at speeds approaching their traction limits using up perhaps 90% of the lane.

I didn't have an issue with sand/oil yesterday on either grade, but there were some deer crossing East Grade (happily, while I was ascending). East Grade has fewer surprises, but on either descent, every corner looks innocuous enough, but a few of them are nasty decreasing radius turns that go on forever (and look just like the innocuous ones when approaching). Caution is definitely the order of the day for a descent down Palomar! I was caught by surprise on my first descent of South Grade by one particularly nasty turn that I headed into at a mere 20 MPH. Since you can't really tell where the road's going, it's way too easy to hit too early an apex and find yourself drifting way out toward the yellow dividing line.

Not wanting to scare anyone, but be careful descending Palomar! Don't assume anything about any corner where you can't see all the way to a long straight section!

It's ok, if we die, we can sue BF

OBTW you should be climbing Palomar early enough, but be careful, a sunny Sat morning on either grade is the playground for sport bikes. I know that Harley riders like me even avoid the front side on the weekends because the sport bike guys blow by us. Furthermore, be very careful on the decent, local residents are known to spread sand, and even oil in the corners to discourage the motorcyclists, there was even a CHP advisory on it earlier this year.

what jerks!!!!!!!!! can't they (CHP or other law enforcement) do something about that? i mean... there has to be something illegal about putting oil and debris on the road on purpose! :mad: :mad: :mad:

JERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ya... the bikers (moterized ones) can be idiots! when i was coming down GMR last time.. MY side of the road and to the right... a couple of IDIOTS on crotch rockets were coming around a corner IN MY LANE! and almost took me out! :mad: :mad: :mad: more JERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, am I going to burn through brake pads this weekend? :D

So, am I going to burn through brake pads this weekend? :D

sounds to me like it depends on how much of a daredevil you are!

So, am I going to burn through brake pads this weekend? :D
No, it's not that bad. East Grade (the side we're descending) has plenty of longer straight sections and not all that many sharp turns.

Edit: Also, from what I saw, the crazy bikers stay on South Grade. The East Grade ones gave me a wide berth, and many even took the time to wave or nod.

sounds to me like it depends on how much of a daredevil you are!
Hey Caligurl, good to see you're still lurking in this thread :). Hadn't heard from you in a while, I was starting to think you were leaving us. Are you and Sirlanceimnot still planning on riding this Sat? In case you didin't read the previous posts, we're thinking about cutting the route to 106 miles.

The descent down East Grade is not that fast, dangerous, or technical. Slow down before the turns and stay away from the yellow line, and you'll be fine.

ovoleg and worker4youth........so we're still on as far as carpooling is concerned?..:)

correct, the east grade is far less traveled by the sport bikes and is way more forgiving. And yes CHP has increased their activity in the area, but the locals spread the sand in the early dawn hours and there is a lot of area to cover. Honestly I have not heard a report of sand in the last 5-6 months so it could have been stopped.

I'm trying to sort out carpooling details. Are we planning on rolling at 6:30am? Since it looks like we're leaving out the Julian portion, do you guys want to push it back to around 6:45am, or leave it as is?

A ride for Julian Apple Pie with no stop in Julian? PFFFTT, I say! Now I'm glad I'm not going.


/actually wish that I could go, but since 45 miles is my PR, I think upping that to 120 "on a whim" might be bad for everybody else.

//would have never made it anyway...and I can buy Julian pies at Major Market just over the hill from me...I've been to Julian just once and didn't even have pie.

/actually wish that I could go, but since 45 miles is my PR, I think upping that to 120 "on a whim" might be bad for everybody else.

Don't count on it, this will only be my 6th or 7th ride since September. I'm sure I'll die on this ride, but what a way to go. :D

Ralph

I'm trying to sort out carpooling details. Are we planning on rolling at 6:30am? Since it looks like we're leaving out the Julian portion, do you guys want to push it back to around 6:45am, or leave it as is?


Every minute of sleep will help at this point. That's my vote, but I'll go along with the majority.

Ralph

Every minute of sleep will help at this point. That's my vote, but I'll go along with the majority.

Ralph

Hey Ralph,
It looks like I have room for one more person and bike in my car. So far it's me, Pico and Extort. Let me know if you want a ride down...Pat

Hey Ralph,
It looks like I have room for one more person and bike in my car. So far it's me, Pico and Extort. Let me know if you want a ride down...Pat

Sure, I'll join you guys. Let me know when and where. Thanks.

Okay, so how does SAG support work from the riders' perspective? What should we be carrying on us? What should we bring for the SAG vehicle? How do we package the stuff we don't carry? (ie Do we just dump it all in a small backpack with our name on it?) I've been doing all my training rides with a 100 oz CamelBak filled to the brim and carrying lots of stuff, so I need to start working out what exactly I'm bringing for this Saturday and what does or doesn't get carried.

I'm stuck at work, and all I could think about all day while waiting around for my annoying reaction is riding a century and eating pie (a la mode now that the weather looks to be good). I have long since memorized the route, and I've even viewed satellite imagery of the entire route. And recently, I've taken to trying to get an idea what the major climbs look like. I can't wait until Saturday. I just need to make it through a few more days...