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bring back the Wobblies! Find a new Pete Seeger, that guy that sang 'when the president speaks to god' or somebody, throw some general strikes to shut down some cities, and see what happens when the proletariat rises up!
The wobblies are on the rise again.
There will be no option but for the proles to rise up when the effects of off-shoring finally collapses the system.. By equalling the wage pools between first and third world countries. We are in for hell read up on economics people. No, no not any off that right wing bull**** most have already expressed here. Turn off the Rush people... Unions are people acting in solidarity for each others benefits.. Find a good union like the IWW that is run by the workers with no high paid bosses.. Bottom up or nothing.
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The wobblies are on the rise again.
There will be no option but for the proles to rise up when the effects of off-shoring finally collapses the system.. By equalling the wage pools between first and third world countries. We are in for hell read up on economics people. No, no not any off that right wing bull**** most have already expressed here. Turn off the Rush people... Unions are people acting in solidarity for each others benefits.. Find a good union like the IWW that is run by the workers with no high paid bosses.. Bottom up or nothing.
Perhaps this thread should be merged with the "Nytimes article on undercover cops in critical mass rides". I think there may be a relationship.
+1 for J&G (http://www.bicycleclothing.com). It's very high quality stuff, reasonably priced and made in Oregon.
+2
The wobblies are on the rise again.
There will be no option but for the proles to rise up when the effects of off-shoring finally collapses the system.. By equalling the wage pools between first and third world countries. We are in for hell read up on economics people. No, no not any off that right wing bull**** most have already expressed here. Turn off the Rush people... Unions are people acting in solidarity for each others benefits.. Find a good union like the IWW that is run by the workers with no high paid bosses.. Bottom up or nothing.
- dunno if this was tongue-in-cheek, but to me it has been the most humorous post i've read here in a month! thanks!
Look folks, this whole argument is pointless and counter productive. Bottom line, there is value to being able to 'cut your own deal' for some, while for others there is value in numbers, organization and collective bargaining. While the union vs non union debate goes on, we're ALL getting screwed by corporations and government. They love this divide and conquer stuff and judging from this thread, they are doing a darn good job of it. The real issue we all should be worried about is outsourcing, off-shoring, and the now accepted practice of companies reneging on contracts with their employees - pension funds being a good example. Our anger, energy and effort should be directed towards those who are taking advantage of us, not towards each other. That's all I got to say on this subject.
- dunno if this was tongue-in-cheek, but to me it has been the most humorous post i've read here in a month! thanks!
I suspect the first time poster is a troll at best; agent provocateur at worse.
Chipcom is correct, take the union bashing and nut case Smash the State ranting elsewhere.
Are we collectively getting taken advantage of by big business, wether we are in a union or not, Chip? ;)
Yeah, corporations have begun to use bankruptcy as a way to reneg on their pension obligations, now THAT's a GREAT corner for the American workforce to get pushed into... the federal pension guarantee corp will not be able to sustain this new paragidm of corporate obligations to their workforce.
True, we are ALL getting screwed in America...
Are we collectively getting taken advantage of by big business, wether we are in a union or not, Chip? ;)You can ask the grocery workers about that one and what kind of deal they got in the end and what their union did for them... :(
... The real issue we all should be worried about is outsourcing, off-shoring, and the now accepted practice of companies reneging on contracts with their employees - pension funds being a good example. Our anger, energy and effort should be directed towards those who are taking advantage of us, not towards each other. That's all I got to say on this subject.Did anyone read that article in TIME a couple months ago on the pilfering and collapse of pension programmes? It is simply immoral and pure evil what these corporations are doing to their old-time, loyal workers.
On the other hand, the issue of outsourcing and monies being shipped abroad is a chicken & egg issue. While it may appear to be an immediate in-the-moment issue, it's had a long history and the worse is yet to come. It's all based upon proficiencies in the workplace and the quality of US education and expertise of US graduates has been on a steady decline for decades relative to their European and Asian counterparts. Especially in the technical fields. The percentages of students going into engineering and high-tech fields (where the biggest dollars are) is less than 1% while in Europe and Asia, it's over 10x higher at 6-7% of all students.
Nowhere was this more obvious than in Silicon Valley during the dot.com craze. Tonnes of engineers were being imported by the hundreds of thousands from Asia, India, Ireland, even Canada. There simply were no qualified US workers to fill all these job-openings the companies were hiring for. Even today with massive bankruptcies and layoffs in the Valley, companies are still having to bring in foreign workers or outsource off-shore.
Unfortunately this trend will continue in the future as the US inadequately prepares their future workers for global competition. Strangling schools with budget cuts while forcing them to improve test-scores is not the answer. The high-end, well-paying technical jobs will be sent overseas, while the US workers will have to scramble for low-end manual-labour jobs. Even then, that's no guarantee as witnessed by the recent layoff of 30,000 workers from GM and Ford hopped on the bandwagon with another 30,000. These workers will gladly be scooped up by the foreign plants (BMW, MB, Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc.) who have set up shop in the US to take advantage of the cheaper US labour costs. With all these layoffs, they'll be even more manual-labour workers clamoring for jobs and salaries will most likely decrease... :(
BTW - there was a great documentary from KCET about 10-years ago called "Challenge in America" that constrasted the differences between GM and their foreign counterparts. Issues of pension-plans, labour-management relations, union structure differences between US and foreign counterparts, production efficiency, etc. There were dire predictions on the fate of GM and the UAW in the future if the current trends were to continue... well, it all came true... :(
Original poster here . . .
Look, folks, I happen to think that being in a union usually means higher wages and benefits, even if one factors in union dues -- I believe the facts bear me out.
But that wasn't the main point of my original post. The real question is this: if the Feds insist on gutting worker rights, can we use our purchasing power to express our values and -- G*d willing -- make some change? This isn't the dreaded "socialism" strawman that some of you have dredged up. This is plain ol' cpitalism -- demand for a product characteristic leads producers to change their products. In this case, that characteristic would be fair wages.
OUR ACTIONS MAKE A DIFFERENCE. In the last month, I have bought a winter cycling jacket, socks and shorts from InSport -- they are all made in the US. I don't know if InSport's workers are unionized, but I know that they earned a higher wage than ANY textile worker in China.
In the words of Dire Straits, "After all the violence and double-talk," is there anyone else willing to say that s/he's willing to try to avoid sweatshop-sourced bike gear??
I buy made in the USA wool cycling clothing and have a Burely collective rainjacket.
I also own a pair of made in China knickers I ordered from Crashbar because Ilike knickers, tough to find domestic, and some of my clothes have import labels because its tough to buy american %100 of the time. I spend extra for Patagonia clothing because I feel Patagucci makes an effort to find 'fair labor' manufacturers and also contributes % of their proceeds to environmental causes, uses organics and sustainable production.
Most of my daily clothes are Filson, or Made in the USA vintage stuff picked up at thrift stores or rummage sales.
All my socks are domestically produced. My CK skivs are not. I try to buy domestic as much as possible, but it is tough.
I spend extra for Patagonia clothing because I feel Patagucci makes an effort to find 'fair labor' manufacturers and also contributes % of their proceeds to environmental causes, uses organics and sustainable production.
From the Patagonia website:
In 1988, we initiated our first national environmental campaign on behalf of an alternative master plan to deurbanize the Yosemite Valley. Each year since, we have undertaken a major education campaign on an environmental issue. We took an early position against globalization of trade where it means compromise of environmental and labor standards. We have argued for dam removal where silting, marginally useful dams compromise fish life. We have support wildlands projects that seek to preserve ecosystems whole and create corridors for wildlife to roam. We hold, every eighteen months a "Tools for Activists" conference to teach marketing and publicity skills to some of the groups we work with.
Not so much cycling stuff, but still . . . I didn't know that -- chalk one more up for the [if they're telling the truth!] forces of good.
Original poster here . . .
Look, folks, I happen to think that being in a union usually means higher wages and benefits, even if one factors in union dues -- I believe the facts bear me out.
But that wasn't the main point of my original post. The real question is this: if the Feds insist on gutting worker rights, can we use our purchasing power to express our values and -- G*d willing -- make some change? This isn't the dreaded "socialism" strawman that some of you have dredged up. This is plain ol' cpitalism -- demand for a product characteristic leads producers to change their products. In this case, that characteristic would be fair wages.
OUR ACTIONS MAKE A DIFFERENCE. In the last month, I have bought a winter cycling jacket, socks and shorts from InSport -- they are all made in the US. I don't know if InSport's workers are unionized, but I know that they earned a higher wage than ANY textile worker in China.
In the words of Dire Straits, "After all the violence and double-talk," is there anyone else willing to say that s/he's willing to try to avoid sweatshop-sourced bike gear??My union newspaper publishes lists of union made products and services every month. The sad truth is, it's getting harder and harder to find American made (let alone union made) goods. This is especially true of textiles and clothing, the original source of the "Union Label" slogan and song.
Also, several posters here make the common mistake of thinking that all union members are unskilled workers. (I'm referring to those who suggested that people should gain skills rather than join a union if they want higher wages.) Many union workers are highly skilled and/or highly educated. I, for example, have a Master's degree but am represented by the UAW.
I'm glad you started this discussion, even if it moved in a different direction than you intended. I can't think of any subject about which more Americans are more misinformed. Even some posters here, who are generally pretty sharp, have a very distorted view of labor and unions. I'm sure this is the result of many years of lies and disinformation from rich corporations and their Republican champions in government.
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the fact that companies are doing end runs around adhereing to their contract obligations is the fault of the unions? It's the psychology of the wife-beater: you're pushing me beyond me endurance limit, so you get what you deserve.
Two excellent examples of blaming the victim.
buy Cannondale!!! it's still American-made as far as I know... just for that fact, I try to buy it when I can... seems to be higher-quality as well, but that may be just me...
Perhaps I'm violating copyright and Cannondale can sue me if they wish for this bit of unsolicited public relations. Here is some info from their website:
Cannondale's Mission:
"Our mission is to create innovative, quality products that inspire cyclists around the world."
To succeed in our mission:
We strive to exceed the expectations of our consumers, retailers and business partners.
We believe our people drive our success and act accordingly.
We work together as one global team.
We act with respect, responsibility and integrity.
We produce a stream of innovative, quality products.
We devise flexible manufacturing processes that enable us to deliver those innovative, quality products to the market quickly and then back them with excellent customer service.
We limit our distribution to the best specialty retailers in the world.
We stay lean, remain competitive and entrepreneurial.
We promote from within whenever possible.
We concentrate on detail, because the last 5% is often the difference between success and failure.
We continuously improve everything.
We govern our every deed by what is ‘just and right’.
The interested reader can see it in context at http://www.cannondale.com/company/index.htmlhttp://www.cannondale.com/company/index.html
If I can only make a miniscule contribution to economic justice by my personal choices, I will do so. I can't justify doing nothing because I can only do a little. This is not to say that all goods produced in Asia are made in sweatshop conditions with the workers paid a pittance; but it does require some discernment. I just don't know how to collect the data, so I understand rach's concern. Are there any colleges that sell bikes? Most colleges are discriminating in a good way about the conditions under which the goods they offer are produced.
I've got a pair of boots made in the USA by the UFCW -most comfortable boots I've ever worn, slip lasted, steel shanked, leather lined, wool insulated, and worth every penny- trouble is, they cost $350...
And on a totally different note, unions are complicit in the fleecing of American workers by encouraging the empty promises of underfunded pension benefits to their members. Company pensions are quickly becoming a liability dealt off the balance sheets of bankrupt and reorganizing corporations..Northwest airlines, GM's reductions of benefits to the UAW!!, to name a few, and what about Enron? many others will follow in the American economy.
A federally mandated $20 per employee a year from private businesses into the FPBGC isn't going to carry every retiree with a collapsed company pension....and school and government pensions have NO guarantee umbrella like private industry, with their paltry payin to the already bankrupt federal pension guarantee corporation of $20 per employee per year.
The unions should have been ensuring their worker's employers were putting the pension money in the piggybank instead of just passing nebulous pension promises from the companies to their members.
It's going to be pretty grim in the next decade and a half for a lot of hardworking Americans who have been planning for those golden years with their pension monies.
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