Folding Bikes - Trek F400 or F600 ? Any good ?

Hi,

The only folding bike quickly available in my area is a Trek but I can't find any decent information about it .

Some people describe it as "heavy" but how much does it actually weight ?
Maybe is the frame also stiffer than some slighly lighter bikes ?
Is the F600 heavier than a GIANT Halfway RS ?

Is it OK for tall riders ?


Regards,

Eric

I don't think I am qualified to asnwer your question, but I was asking it myself a while back, so let me share with you what I think.

For a while I thought about the F600 as the most good looking of all folders, and the dual drive technology was really appealing to me. I ended up keeping my Halfway RS and getting a dual drive for it instead of trading them just because I really like my RS, and as I mentioned before, I think it is the only one in the world (Shillun from this forum has an orange one, but he is the other side of the world AND I never saw it). Not that I like attention or anything (most people can't see he difference between my RS and my girlfriend's white DTVIII-FS) but I really enjoy the feeling of "uniqueness" of my bike I am not sure about the weight, but Littlepixel's girlfriend has an F400E and apparently it performed well even though reported as a little heavy.

Keep in mind that the F600 is a roader while the Halfway RS has suspension and more spokes (suggesting it can be used more than just road). I come from a competitive mountain bike background, so I do jump a lot with my Halfway(like rocks, skateboards or water), go down stairs and even get some air depending on where I am. Weight was not a decision factor for me, but I wouldn't feel comfortable attemping any of my riding habits on these treks, so for me, the Giant was a better product.

To go with a F400E, I would go with a Halfway 7s. It only has "half" (cantilever technology) and it folds really, really neat.

I don't know how important customer service is for you, but usually, "big" manufacturers will give you little or no attention since they are busy with "real" bikes. Dealing with Giant was frustrating and you may experience something similar with Trek.

Find out what you want from your folder, share with us and other users more experienced than I and myself can try to help you. But we all will say the same thing: ride them as much as you can before making any decisions. I, personally, after riding Downtubes and upgrading my Halfway RS, would never ride a rigid 20" ever. Suspension on little wheels makes a big difference.

Rafael

The only folding bike quickly available in my area is a Trek but I can't find any decent information about it.
I found a review (http://www.australiancyclist.com.au/showarticle.php?s=4&a=780) of it from an Aussie site. My girlfriend has one and loves it. She's got the F400e which we got as a bargain as it came with all the useful commuter extras like mudguards, kickstand, reflective Schwalbe Marathon Slick tyres and a sturdy rear rack.


Some people describe it as "heavy" but how much does it actually weigh?
I found an old quote on here that cites their weight at around 26lbs but I don't know how accurate that is. What I'd say is that yes it isn't the lightest bike around but having ridden it myself I've found it responsive and speedy on the road. My girlfriend got it to replace a full size 700cc hybrid and finds it lighter and easy to ride in comparison though the ride is not as good as the bigger wheeled bike. So I think they went for sturdyness over lightness really.

My comments compared to my own Raleigh 20 are that I find the handlebars a little high and the whole thing seems a little light at the front end - going up a steep hill and pulling on the bars can almost lead to a wheelie, and with that the steering sometimes feels a little too light. On the whole though it's a good bike - though prices seem to vary hugely. You ask if it's ok for tall riders - I'd give it an unqualified yes.

Can you take one for a test ride? That's the only true way to know if it's for you. The other option is to mail order/buy from the web but then there's no way of trying before buying.

Huw

For C$1699 (1,699.00 CAD Canada Dollars = 1,465.64 USD United States Dollars), I would rather have a Halfway RS with some add ons or a Downtube VIII FS with several upgrades. That's if time, space and the ability to travel the globe to buy whatever you want wherever you want weren't issues.

Rafael

Trek can't seem to give away their folding bikes. I seriously considered them but my LBS that sells a ton of bikes said go buy a Dahon even though they don't sell them. He said if you want to spend more $$$ buy a Bike Friday. So in the past year I have now bought 4 Dahons, 1 BF and 2 Downtubes. I seriously looked at the Haflway BUT the flex seatpost killed it for me. I am a big guy and with it fully extended I got a lot of flex in it.

The Trek isn't a bad bike and I looked at the F600 but ultimately I saw what I felt were better bikes for less money or much better bikes for the same. I'd rather have an entry level BF than any of the Trek folders. Obviously though to each their own. I'd rather buy a folder from a company where it is their entire focus and not just something they dabble in. This logic so far has served me quite well.

Thanks for your piece of advice.
I was also considering a halfway RS but now that u mentioned that the seatpost is too flexible....I am 1M92 and that probably too tall as well for a halfway.

Regards,

Eric

Oh boy Ericx25, you're 6'4"? That narrows the pack.

I didn't realize the Treks were that expensive. Wavshrdr sums it up well, "I saw...better bikes for less money or much better bikes for the same." At the price of the Trek, Bike Friday is a contender and they'll custom-build you a bike.

Orders of magnitude less costly is a Dahon with their optional telescoping seatpost.
see: http://www.dahon.com/u-twosection.htm
Top section is a standard, 27.2mm seatpost so you can use whatever brand you prefer.

Dahons line of bikes is extensive and I'd steer you in that direction. When I start to think being 6'0" makes finding a folder a challenge, I'll remember you guys. ;)

I believe the Treks are actually built by Dahon. The prices are slightly higher than Dahons in the US http://www.trekbikes.com/bikes/2004/citybike/index.jsp. I am not sure why there is such a big difference in Australia.

rdh: you're correct - the Trek folders are either built under license or actually built by Dahon. I certainly wouldn't worry about quality. Didn't think about this but if the Trek has the same diameter seat-tube as the Dahons, you could retrofit Dahon's telescoping seat post, making it work for taller riders.

For C$1699 (1,699.00 CAD Canada Dollars = 1,465.64 USD United States Dollars), I would rather have a Halfway RS with some add ons or a Downtube VIII FS with several upgrades. That's if time, space and the ability to travel the globe to buy whatever you want wherever you want weren't issues.

Rafael

The F600 sells for about $1100.00 USD in the US but that's waaaaay over priced. For just another $200.00 UDS more, you can get a custom bike Friday with a tripple instead of the Dual Drive.

I like the Trek folder but it really needs a Brooks Champion flyer because it's made of Aluminum yet weights more than the Dahon Speed 8 made from Chromoly 4130. The geometry is pretty straight up sitting but overall very well made.

I believe the Treks are actually built by Dahon. The prices are slightly higher than Dahons in the US http://www.trekbikes.com/bikes/2004/citybike/index.jsp. I am not sure why there is such a big difference in Australia.

Honestly to me it is NOT a big selling point that Trek folders may be manufactured by Dahon. This is not that I am against Dahon because I am not. I currently have several Dahons. My point is that a crappy design can still be a crappy design regardless of who slapped it together. The fact that Dahon built it possibly eliminates one factor (such as shoddy assembly) but does NOT eliminate factors such as crappy design, poor material specs, poor component choice, etc. I'd be more impressed if they re-badged a Dahon rather than what they did. Then you get into the entire issue of taking your bike to a Trek dealer who obviously doesn't understand folders anyway.

To look at it another way, a car designed and spec'd by Dae Woo yet built by Mercedes or Toyota without their input would still most likely be a POS yet they could brag that it was built on the same assembly lines as a S500 or an Avalon and most people would eat that BS right up. I could easily write the ad copy promoting that relationship. "You too can buy your Dae Woo Dinky car that is built on the same assembly lines as the legendary Mercedes Benz! These famous German craftsmen will assemble your Dae Woo Dinky with the same loving care and attention as the prestigious and luxurious S500. Don’t forget that when you go into your local dealer be sure to tell they that you want the Dinky car!" I am sure you get my drift.

Let’s look at this a little more objectively. Trek had 4 folders offered just 2 years ago, now they have 2! What does that tell you about their commitment to the market? It is a niche to them. Again I will restate my previous point of why buy a product from a company that has no focus and little development resources allocated to something that is obviously not their core business? They don't really care too much about this market and obviously haven't learned out to make it viable part of their business yet the charge a premium for a bike that at it's price point it should be a premium product but it is not! If you want to spend that kind of cash, RUN, don't walk to Bike Friday and buy a great bike for equivalent cash.

I would order a Dahon by Internet before I would buy a Trek folder from my LBS. Again I am not biased against Trek as I have a few of their normal bikes in my garage as well just they don't care about the folder market. Why buy a bike that could soon be an orphan? Unfortunately this is how I feel about Giant. They have almost no offerings in the US and that is what kept me from buying a Halfway. I loved the bike other than the flexy seatpost and my concern about the single sided fork and swingarm. I'm a big guy and I didn't think it would hold up well enough for me over time. Of course how you wish to spend your own discretion [and of course input from your significant other ;)].

I think you misunderstood my point. If Treks are made by Dahon, yet way overpriced in Australia, then it would make much more sense to buy a Dahon.

Hmmmm..my LBS has Trek, Dahon and is a BikeFriday dealer and
when I mentioned what I read here, ie; Treks are Dahons he told
me they weren't :eek:
I have the utmost respect for this dealer so I guess its just an oversight
but it doesnt matter anyway 'cuz Im sold on the B'Friday !
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/banana.gif

I think you misunderstood my point. If Treks are made by Dahon, yet way overpriced in Australia, then it would make much more sense to buy a Dahon.

I understood your point but there was really no reason to buy a Trek. I was just fleshing out the argument a little bit. Unless you are married to a Trek, then I wouldn't even consider it. If Trek drops their folders completely the resale value of a Trek is likely to plummet. Couple that with the fact they are more expensive and it even becomes less viable economically. In almost every facet of the purchasing decision (Trek vs. Dahon) it makes more sense to buy the Dahon. I can't see in any area where the Trek is better than the Dahon yet you pay more money for it.

£em in Pa - my LBS told me the same thing and they are a HUGE Trek dealer. Go get a BF and you'll be happy too.

£em in Pa - my LBS told me the same thing and they are a HUGE Trek dealer. Go get a BF and you'll be happy too.

Thanks for validation !
To me, the Trek 600 is too expensive ! You can get a good Friday or a great Dahon
for the same money. What are they thinking ??? :eek:

Hmmmm..my LBS has Trek, Dahon and is a BikeFriday dealer and
when I mentioned what I read here, ie; Treks are Dahons he told
me they weren't :eek:
I have the utmost respect for this dealer so I guess its just an oversight
but it doesnt matter anyway 'cuz Im sold on the B'Friday !
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/banana.gif

You're dealer is correct. Trek uses some of Dahon's technology (Handlebar, frame latch, seat post lach) but the frame is unique. Josh Hon said they helped design the geomety so I guess they also had a hand in the development of the frame.

I just discovered this website. I had picked up a Trek folder (400 Navigator) last fall at a year end sale from a local bike shop. It had sat there all summer with a price tag of $650. They had it marked down to 250 and I brow beat them down a bit further even. I had been looking for a small compact relatively inexpensive bike to fold and throw into the back of our compact car. (a Prius) The Trek was perfect for my purpose, and still remains so.
However, as my wife is also a biker we were one folder short. So I picked up a Downtube VIII a few days ago and my wife and I have been riding them side by side. I've detailed them on another thread, and as far as being best, although both good bikes for the money, I'd have to give the nod to the Downtube, Even if the costs were the same, I'd still probably take the downtube.
I understand that most bikes, with the exception of odd ball off brands or really high end stuff can be worked on by most competent bike mechanincs anyhway, and I seriously doubt that we will ever ride them enough to start wearing out components. We'll use our "real" bikes for that. The folders are intended for us anyway, for travel, shorter commutes, planes, trains, and boats.
The downtube is more substantial and solider feeling than the Trek which is maybe a pound or so lighter, and the Trek is geared a bit lower, about 1 speed. Both my wife and I get the subjective impression that the Downtube climbs a bit better despite the gearing. Were the prices identical we'd probably both take the Trek, though.
Both, though are good little bikes for what we intend to use them for........