"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Michael Rogers - naive?

After stagnating the careers of Salvodelli, Vinokourov, Evans, and so many other foreigners at T-mobile, does Michael Rogers actually believe he will be allowed to lead T-mobile to the podium in the Tour De France?

From Cyclingnews.com


...Rogers also said that the Tour de France was his ultimate goal, even if he knows that this year he will be riding in support of captain Jan Ullrich. "This year I was pretty much the leader, but going to the new team next year, we've got one of the favourites in our team to win," said Rogers, 26. "My job probably will be to look after him in the final parts of every stage, but winning is always an option for me. The Tour is the No. 1 goal, now and in the future, and I know that if I can keep working toward that, the rewards will come."

Courtesy of Susan Westemeyer

He's a dipsh*t if he thinks he can place at the Tour.

I think you've misinterpreted the quote.

Even more surprising is him actually thinking he'll be released at the height of the Spring Classics to race the pissweak Commonwealth Games here next year.

He's a dipsh*t if he thinks he can place at the Tour.

So you think Riis and Julich are more talented than Rogers? They both made it onto the podium in Paris, and Rogers has far and away exceeded what both of them put together had accomplished by the young age of 26, which is how old Michael will be Tuesday.

There is a free for all coming in France this summer, and I suspect Michael will be in the thick of things, not just this year but for many years to come.

You might want to check his palmares before you count him out:

http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/australia.Rogers-M.htm

So you think Riis and Julich are more talented than Rogers? They both made it onto the podium in Paris, and Rogers has far and away exceeded what both of them put together had accomplished by the young age of 26, which is how old Michael will be Tuesday.

There is a free for all coming in France this summer, and I suspect Michael will be in the thick of things, not just this year but for many years to come.

You might want to check his palmares before you count him out:

http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/australia.Rogers-M.htm

Julich, unfortunately, only placed at the Tour because of the Festina scandel. He even admits that. I could see Rogers possibly placing top 10 but not Podium.

Julich, unfortunately, only placed at the Tour because of the Festina scandel. He even admits that. I could see Rogers possibly placing top 10 but not Podium.

So he finished third overall just 47 secs behind Ullrich, top four in every time trial, and 2nd on a key mountain stage, but only because one team got kicked out? :rolleyes:

Where does he admit this? Please post a link. Thanks.

After stagnating the careers of Salvodelli, Vinokourov, Evans, and so many other foreigners at T-mobile, does Michael Rogers actually believe he will be allowed to lead T-mobile to the podium in the Tour De France?



Probably old news, but still interesting.


interview (http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=8711)

I'm not sure Rogers has any idea what he is doing. If the Tour is his main goal in life, then why sign for a team that already has a proven Tour big gun.

Quickstep was his chance, but he just didn't want to play Lefeveres rules and now will be relegated to domestique every July. He would have been "the" leader at Quickstep (Sinkewitz pussied out too) and had protected status for GC, while the sprint train got out there and helped Boonen raise his arms.

Good luck to him the rest of the year though. He should do well at the one-weekers, as he has shown in the past.

Read the faintly pink highlighted text at the bottom of this page.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/356016.jpg

If you can't read the text: "To me this year is much better because I know how I got here. In 1998, when I was third at the Tour, a lot happened because of circumstance. If the Festina [doping scandal] hadn't happened, I never would..."

Read the faintly pink highlighted text at the top of this page.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/356017.jpg

If you can't read the text: "...have been on the podium."

Well, it is interesting that Julich would say that, but it is completely false reasoning since one cannot draw a conclusion based on something that didn't happen. In other words, his statement is consistent with his self effacing personality, but doesn't reflect sound logic.

Ask yourself this: If Julich is correct, is he saying that someone on Festina would have finished between him and Ullrich? Since Julich finished only 47 seconds behind Ullrich after 21 days of racing, who would have finished ahead of Julich? Would that person have also finished ahead of Ullrich, one of the most consistent and highly placed TDF riders in history? Or would that person also have finished ahead of Pantani, winning the TDF? Neither Zulle or Virenque ever finished ahead of Ullrich in a TDF, so I dont think it particularly reasonable to think they would have done so in 1998. It's possible that one or both of them could have beaten Ullrich in 98', but it's not consistent with what actually happened.

It is more consistent with the results that year to believe that if the Festina scandal had not occured, Festina may have placed a rider, possibly Zulle or Virenque, in the top five, since there was a 5 minute gap between Julich in 3rd place and Rinero in fourth place, and the fourth place finisher vanished into obscurity. Julich was a DNF in the 99' TDF, then he temporarily vanished into obscurity as Ullrich's domestique at Telekom, only to resurface as a stage race winner and top level time trialer.

Unfortunately, many buy into Telekoms mentality that Julich was only worth domestique duties. On the contrary, he has ridden to a TDF stage victory in the team time trial, and victories in prestigious races like the Criterium International and Paris-Nice, to name just two.

Perhaps Julich's self-effacing personality was why he was passed over on Telekom, where it seemed each rider had to take what he could. Botero is also of the same personality type, and experienced the same fate at Telekom.

Thanks for posting that.

I'm not sure Rogers has any idea what he is doing. If the Tour is his main goal in life, then why sign for a team that already has a proven Tour big gun. How much longer do you think Ullrich is going to race?



Quickstep was his chance, but he just didn't want to play Lefeveres rules and now will be relegated to domestique every July. He would have been "the" leader at Quickstep (Sinkewitz pussied out too) and had protected status for GC, while the sprint train got out there and helped Boonen raise his arms.It's my opinion that Lefevere is a great DS for the classics but the facts are he has not been able to put together a successful GC threat in the Grand Tours. That's fact. I think Rogers sees a more balanced approach to classics and Grand Tours with T-Mobile, plus, I think he's getting paid for this move.

Is everyone forgetting that Rogers lost the Tour de Suisse on the last day to a former Grand Tour winner? He is only 26. Patience folks. Not everyone matures like Boonen.

Rogers more or less admitted on Aus TV that the main reason he went to the "German national team" (my quote, not his :p) was for the contract

Rogers more or less admitted on Aus TV that the main reason he went to the "German national team" was for the contract


Yup.

No-one enjoys handing over the folding like T-Mobile.

Michael Rogers - Man Ho!

Rogers more or less admitted on Aus TV that the main reason he went to the "German national team" (my quote, not his :p) was for the contract

I was at a cafe in Sydney about a month ago, post ride and listening along with a conversation with some Aussie pro tour riders, who confirmed more or less what he was signing for to go to Telekom. Pretty much triple what he was on, 3 times world champs don't come cheap.

How much longer do you think Ullrich is going to race?


It all depends on how much money he needs and if his results are positive.



Is everyone forgetting that Rogers lost the Tour de Suisse on the last day to a former Grand Tour winner? He is only 26. Patience folks. Not everyone matures like Boonen.

Of course he will garner results over the next years. That much talent can shine without even trying. He just won't get to go for Tour GC as long as Ullrich is there. T-Mobile will set up there squad juat as USPS/Discovery did. All their eggs in one basket, regardless of the outcome.

T-Mobile will set up there squad juat as USPS/Discovery did. All their eggs in one basket, regardless of the outcome.You mean like they did last year when T-Mobile gave Vino free reign and the year before when Kloden finished ahead of Ullrich and Ullrich supported him to get him on the podium? They didn't look like a one trick pony team to me either year. ;)

I think Ullrich is near the end of his rope, and if Rogers can shine, I think he'll be given his opportunity. Personally, I think he is still a few years from achieving his potential, but he could make it onto the podium with a little luck. Lesser riders have done it.

You mean like they did last year when T-Mobile gave Vino free reign and the year before when Kloden finished ahead of Ullrich and Ullrich supported him to get him on the podium? They didn't look like a one trick pony team to me either year. ;)


They have no other choice than to improvise if Ullrich chokes. Neither rided benefited from full protection, and certainly not from stage 1 on.

You might want to check his palmares before you count him out:

http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/australia.Rogers-M.htm

8,9,10 yeeeeeer out!

While a very good TT rider if the course suits him, there's little that would indicate he's any kind of a GC threat at the tour. Barely cracked the top 30 in this year's final TDF TT, finished 45th in the opening TT. In the mountain stages lost gobs of time, never breaking the top ten and often finishing with the gruppetto. 42nd in 2003, 22 on GC in 2004, dropped to 41st this year. As he was the top Quick Step rider we can assume he wasn't riding as a domestique in the mountains.

In the Tour de Swiss he couldn't hang when all the money was on the line and the race went uphill. So, if you can't keep Aitor Gonzalez from making you his beech...

Barring some remarkable breakthrough (things can always happen), there's nothing in that palomares that would make him the Oz-on favorite for a podium, especially considering he's on T Mobile, where non-german talent goes to die.

Bet that VB on Cadel.

Julich, unfortunately, only placed at the Tour because of the Festina scandel. He even admits that. I could see Rogers possibly placing top 10 but not Podium.
So he's a dipsh*t for thinking he can place, but now you can see him placing... guess that means...? :rolleyes:

Means Warblades a dipsh*t ? :p

So he's a dipsh*t for thinking he can place, but now you can see him placing... guess that means...? :rolleyes:

No, I was more thinking along the lines of top three, not top ten. Sorry for any confusement.

No, I was more thinking along the lines of top three, not top ten. Sorry for any confusement.
Yep, cause placing top 10 but thinking you could possibly make top 3 at the tour makes you a dipsh*t.... lets see your palmares? :eek:

Wait what?! When did I say I could place at the Tour?! Now I'm really confused.

For those of you not able to follow this, a synopsis:

Michael Rogers said Lance was a big sissy and he's going to kick everyone's butter in this year's TDF, after he cleans up the Giro pansies and before he rocks the Vuelta's world.

Pshaw said he could beat Rogers but won't because he want the young man to "get his dew (sp)" while Warblade claims Pshaw couldn't carry his steel frame up three steps without breaking down into tears.

Is that pretty close?

I have no idea what's going on....

Warblade claims Pshaw couldn't carry his steel frame up three steps without breaking down into tears.

Is that pretty close?

WHAT?!?!?!?!?! I am soooo confused it's not even funny...therefore I have decided I am officially not posting in the thread anymore...

geez folks, are the winter doldrums cabin fever craziness spilling
over into this forum too?
Rodgers won't enjoy the plunge into obscurity that Bobby J,
or Kevin Livingstone did on t-mobile, but I don't see him being
their tour #1 protected rider for the next 2 years.
Jan will retire the shortly after winning the TdF again.

marty

...Rodgers won't enjoy the plunge into obscurity that Bobby J,
or Kevin Livingstone did on t-mobile, but I don't see him being
their tour #1 protected rider for the next 2 years.......

marty

My point exactly.

T-mobile offers its riders lucrative contracts. However, beyond that--the opportunity to ride up front in a grand tour has never been given to anyone who isn't German. Proven tour contenders such as Julich, Salvoldelli, Evans, Vinokourov, and others have always been relegated into the background while working for big German Team. Even if they had the fitness and talent to stand on the podium.

For Micheal Rogers to think, his greatest years are ahead at T-mobile may be a bit of well-paid but self deception. He's not even been thru his first season and already they're conflicting on which races he'll participate in.

My point exactly.

T-mobile offers its riders lucrative contracts. However, beyond that--the opportunity to ride up front in a grand tour has never been given to anyone who isn't German. Proven tour contenders such as Julich, Salvoldelli, Evans, Vinokourov, and others have always been relegated into the background while working for big German Team. Even if they had the fitness and talent to stand on the podium.

For Micheal Rogers to think, his greatest years are ahead at T-mobile may be a bit of well-paid but self deception. He's not even been thru his first season and already they're conflicting on which races he'll participate in.

Palmares of one rider relegated into the background by those nasty Germans:

http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/kazakhstan.Vinokourov.htm

How many broken collar bones did Evans have while he was with T-Mobile? He was left off the 2004 TDF team, many thought unjustly, but he had never started a TDF before, and he was competing for a spot against Kloden, Ullrich, Botero, and Guerini. These are all hardened tour riders, and a team normally only take 4 climber/GC riders to the TDF. You choose. He didn't start the 2003 TDF because of a broken collarbone. And T-Mobile supported him during his victory in the Tour of Austria in 2004.

How about Salvodelli? Salvodelli broke his collarbone 3 times, count em, three times since his victory in the 2002 Giro, 2 of those breaks impacted his in season performance, while the last happened in preseason training this year while he was with Discovery, but he was able to get in shape in time to perform at the Giro. Salvodelli was unable to start the 2004 TDF because of a broken collarbone or arm, depending on what news source you read, and he also was unable to start the 2003 TDF because of a viral illness.

So could you tell me again how T-Moblie held these riders, especially Vino since you cited him, back in the TDF or their careers? :rolleyes:

You partially substantiate my assertions in my original post.
Michael Rogers actually believes he will be the point man for the TDF. Past history with this team is consistent with many foreign riders leaving with the same resentment. They all believed they too would be leaders but T-mobile has a reputation-intentional or not--to stagnate those who ride for them.

Vinokourov has an incredible list of accomplishments. But even he substantiates my point in his latest interview in Cyclesport USA.

I believe it was in Procycling where they made mention that T-mobile is a german sponsor that has marketing value in their home country. They want a figurehead that will show value in a market that matters to them. Just like Vino, Micheal Rogers is talented but doesn't fit that bill.

You partially substantiate my assertions in my original post.
Michael Rogers actually believes he will be the point man for the TDF. Past history with this team is consistent with many foreign riders leaving with the same resentment. They all believed they too would be leaders but T-mobile has a reputation-intentional or not--to stagnate those who ride for them.

Vinokourov has an incredible list of accomplishments. But even he substantiates my point in his latest interview in Cyclesport USA.

I believe it was in Procycling where they made mention that T-mobile is a german sponsor that has marketing value in their home country. They want a figurehead that will show value in a market that matters to them. Just like Vino, Micheal Rogers is talented but doesn't fit that bill.

Your argument is an argument ad nauseum, If you say something loud enough and often enough, people will believe it.

You say I substantiate your post, but you don't say where or how. You say many riders left the team with the same resentment, but you don't substantiate that. You say that Vinokourov was relegated into the background, but then say he has an incredible list of accomplishments :rolleyes: . Then you say they want a figurehead that will show value in a market that matters to them, but Rodgers doesn't fit the bill. Why has T-Mobile sponsored a womens team that races in America? Why does T-Mobile sponsor races in North America? Does T-Mobile market their services in Australia? Do they market their services to English speaking countries?

If he doesn't fit the bill, please enlighten us: Why is T-Mobile dropping the coin on Rodgers? :lol:

My favorite though is this:
They all believed they too would be leaders....So now you're saying that Julich was hired and made to believe he would be the team leader at the TDF even though Ullrich had beaten him the previous year? Wha...? :eek:


Oh, and if I was the management at T-Mobile, and I was hiring Rodgers to eventually take Ullrich's place, I would want him to believe he will be the point man at the TDF.

Oh, and if I was the management at T-Mobile, and I was hiring Rodgers to eventually take Ullrich's place, I would want him to believe he will be the point man at the TDF.

Exactly... Rogers better believe he can make the podium and if Ullrich has a bad tour or unfortunate circumstance like last year, Rogers 'could' find himself in a handy position..?

So who will lead Discovery in the Tour?
Maybe they are looking for an American but it wont be Danielson this year...Hincapie..? I dont think so
or will they look to the Italian Savoldelli?

Discovery?

Popovich would be my guess.

marty

Oh, and if I was the management at T-Mobile, and I was hiring Rodgers to eventually take Ullrich's place, I would want him to believe he will be the point man at the TDF.

Many indications point to T-Mobile not being interested in supporting a non-German team leader.

So who will lead Discovery in the Tour?
Maybe they are looking for an American but it wont be Danielson this year...Hincapie..? I dont think so
or will they look to the Italian Savoldelli?


Trent Lowe!!!

Many indications point to T-Mobile not being interested in supporting a non-German team leader.

True, once Ullrich is gone though they have no other Deutshe GC riders coming up.

My memory is bad, who led Telekom in 2003 when Ullrich was riding at Bianchi?

Rogers has obvious TT ability, IIRC he had some wonderful days climing with Virenque when riding for Quickstep. No reason he can't develop more in the mountains in the coming years.

My memory is bad, who led Telekom in 2003 when Ullrich was riding at Bianchi?




2003 Duetsche Telekom Tour squad....

TELEKOM
21 BOTERO Santiago (Col) np.18°
22 AERTS Mario (Bel)
23 ALDAG Rolf (All)
24 GUERINI Giuseppe (Ita)
25 KESSLER Matthias (All)
26 KLÖDEN Andreas (All) ab.9°
27 NARDELLO Daniele (Ita)
28 VINOKOUROV Alexandre (Kaz)
29 ZABEL Erik (All)

True, once Ullrich is gone though they have no other Deutshe GC riders coming up.

My memory is bad, who led Telekom in 2003 when Ullrich was riding at Bianchi?

Rogers has obvious TT ability, IIRC he had some wonderful days climing with Virenque when riding for Quickstep. No reason he can't develop more in the mountains in the coming years.

I wish I could say Vino but he did not even get the full support worthy of a team leader at the Tour, and he still made it to the podium! I see a 30/70 chance of the team folding after Ullrich retires and contracts expire.

I wish I could say Vino but he did not even get the full support worthy of a team leader at the Tour, and he still made it to the podium!

Can you give an example of how he did not get the full support worthy of a team leader at the Tour? Thanks.

Can you give an example of how he did not get the full support worthy of a team leader at the Tour? Thanks.

In the mountain stages my impression was that the team was not willing to work for Vino to the degree that they worked for Ullrich.

In the mountain stages my impression was that the team was not willing to work for Vino to the degree that they worked for Ullrich.

Ok, can you give a specific example of which stage(s) this happened on and what happened to make you think this? Thanks.

Trent Lowe!!!
LOL

Palmares of one rider relegated into the background by those nasty Germans:

http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/kazakhstan.Vinokourov.htm

How many broken collar bones did Evans have while he was with T-Mobile? He was left off the 2004 TDF team, many thought unjustly, but he had never started a TDF before, and he was competing for a spot against Kloden, Ullrich, Botero, and Guerini. These are all hardened tour riders, and a team normally only take 4 climber/GC riders to the TDF. You choose. He didn't start the 2003 TDF because of a broken collarbone. And T-Mobile supported him during his victory in the Tour of Austria in 2004.

So could you tell me again how T-Moblie held these riders, especially Vino since you cited him, back in the TDF or their careers? :rolleyes:

@1 You can always fit an extra climber in who is a great tter. Evans fits that bill, just like Kloeden and Botero, and Vinikourov if he did not break his clavicle. BTW Guerini is a better teamtimetrialer than one would think to look at him, however he does not shelter his rider behind him as well due to his physique.

@2 NO Tmob did not support him at Weisbauer. Thomas Konecny was attacking him in the mountains :rolleyes:

Evans never gelled with the Eastern sports system. He is not on his own. His career suffered from only riding 2 Vueltas with an ad-hoc preparation and no objective. It started in 2003 when he was ditched at the last minute for the Liege Bastogne Liege squad. Seems he was told he was riding, and no one told him anything up until a few days before when he found out he was off the roster :rolleyes:

My point exactly.

T-mobile offers its riders lucrative contracts. However, beyond that--the opportunity to ride up front in a grand tour has never been given to anyone who isn't German.

Just what nationality was Riis? And they had a pretty good German rider in 96 when Riis won that they could have gone with.

@1.........:4:24am???!!! dude, go to bed :p

@2 NO Tmob did not support him at Weisbauer. Thomas Konecny was attacking him in the mountains :rolleyes: @++1 It would certainly require a narrow view of racing tactics to think that because Konecny had a good day in the mountains on stage 4, took the mountains jersey for T-Mobile, and put himself in position to get on the podium at the finish, he was attacking Evans. Evans only lost 17 seconds to Konecny on the day, and Thomas rode in full support of Evans the remaining three stages of the race. He wasn't constantly attacking like Vino was in last years TDF. T-Mobile has always had an ace-in-the-hole approach to tours, with both Kloden and Vino stepping up when Ullrich faltered. Konecny was well positioned to do the same.(is a roll eyes required here? :roflmao: ) These are the same tactics that Gerolsteiner used with Leipheimer/Totschnig and Saeco used with Simoni/Cunego. The riders are not always the happiest about them, but these tactics do assure the most media exposure for the sponsors.




Evans...career suffered from only riding 2 Vueltas with an ad-hoc preparation and no objective.He did ride in a few other not so small races like the Giro d'Italia and Paris-Nice. ;) I think his career may have suffered more because he spent the first part of it mountain bike racing and he has suffered an abnormal number of injuries.


Konecny wearing the Mountains Points Leader Jersey pacing Evans wearing the Leaders jersey in the Tour of Austria: