Winter Cycling - Windchill factor and frostbite

Wind chill - Minutes to Frostbite
http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/minutes_freeze_table_e.cfm
http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/windchill_chart_e.cfm

These are charts letting you know how many minutes it will take to begin to develop frostbite at different temperatures and wind speeds. Note that the charts are Canadian so the temperatures are Celcius and the windspeeds are in Kilometers.


Wind Chill Hazards
http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/windchill_threshold_chart_e.cfm

This is a chart letting you know the risk at certain temperatures and how to dress for them

This little paragraph at the bottom there is interesting!! :D

"**In parts of the country with a milder climate (such as southern Ontario and the Atlantic provinces except Labrador), a wind chill warning is issued at about -35. Further north, people have grown more accustomed to the cold, and have adapted to the more severe conditions. Because of this, Environment Canada issues warnings at progressively colder wind chill values as you move north. Most of Canada hears a warning at about -45. Residents of the Arctic, northern Manitoba and northern Quebec are warned at about -50, and those of the high Arctic, at about -55."


This is the entire WindChill site which Environment Canada has put together. It includes all sorts of charts, online calculators, scientific equations, and so on:
http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/index_e.cfm



And if, for some reason, you are not familiar with the metric system... here's a conversion site that will help:
http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm
http://www.onlineconversion.com/

Wind chill - Minutes to Frostbite
http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/minutes_freeze_table_e.cfm
http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/windchill_chart_e.cfm

These are charts letting you know how many minutes it will take to begin to develop frostbite at different temperatures and wind speeds. Note that the charts are Canadian so the temperatures are Celcius and the windspeeds are in Kilometers.


Wind Chill Hazards
http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/windchill_threshold_chart_e.cfm

This is a chart letting you know the risk at certain temperatures and how to dress for them

This little paragraph at the bottom there is interesting!! :D

"**In parts of the country with a milder climate (such as southern Ontario and the Atlantic provinces except Labrador), a wind chill warning is issued at about -35. Further north, people have grown more accustomed to the cold, and have adapted to the more severe conditions. Because of this, Environment Canada issues warnings at progressively colder wind chill values as you move north. Most of Canada hears a warning at about -45. Residents of the Arctic, northern Manitoba and northern Quebec are warned at about -50, and those of the high Arctic, at about -55."


This is the entire WindChill site which Environment Canada has put together. It includes all sorts of charts, online calculators, scientific equations, and so on:
http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/index_e.cfm



And if, for some reason, you are not familiar with the metric system... here's a conversion site that will help:
http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm
http://www.onlineconversion.com/


That's amazing about the adaptation to the cold and the different warning levels! It is important for anyone outside in the cold to understand this. I learned my lesson with a small gap between my mittens and my sleeve on a dogsled being pulled by a snowmobile when I was about 15.

I rode (and still do) with a thermometer on my handlebars in winter for about 10 years. I calculated wind chills with a wind chill chart etc.I have a thermometer that has a wind chill chart on it. Over the years I learned about what to wear for what temperature, which makes it easier to get dressed before a ride.
I finally stopped even thinking about wind chill a few years ago and just made sure there is always a way to cover all my skin. I have a neck gaiter and I can pull it up under my goggles or glasses if I need to. When it's very cold I wear two. If it's really windy I just dress a little warmer. I bring goggles If I wear glasses if it's very cold anyway. I rode motorcycles in the cold and snow for decades, the wind chill factor is much worse. With the bicycle I find I need to have a way to adjust what I wear a little for the amount of heat I produce and the speed of the bike. I fine tune how warm I am by how much effort I expend when I need to.

~ If it's cold keep the skin covered*~

*However it is very important for new winter riders to be careful and to look at a chart just to get an idea of what happens.

I was over thinking the whole thing. I tend to err on the side of safety anyway, that's just me.

Here is something similar> (U.S. Friendly)

http://www.accuweather.com/iwxpage/paws/windchill.htm

I am just full of questions on this topic.:)

Let's say it's a still day, no wind. Is the wind speed equivalent to your riding speed?

Can you add headwind speed to riding speed? Can you subtract tailwind speed from riding speed? What about crosswinds?

Finally, about "frostbite." Are there cold injuries that are less serious than frostbite? Should we worry about those at warmer temperatures?

Here is something similar> (U.S. Friendly)

http://www.accuweather.com/iwxpage/paws/windchill.htm


BAD chart, even if it is easy to read. Times should be in minutes not seconds and equivalent temps are way way off.

Here's the real chart:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/windchill/


Here's an explanation of the chart
http://www.weatherimages.org/data/windchill.html

This link has a cool graph comparing pre 2001 wind chill and post 2001 wind chill charts
http://www.compuweather.com/shared/newwindchill.htm

In Florida they issue windchill warnings when it drops below 50 degrees. Just kidding.

I'm not going to use a chart to determine if I am feeling the effects of windchill, and also know from experience you can experience wind chill when its 55 degrees out...charts don't feel cold.

I've given myself hypothermia (and frostnip and bite) on more than a few occassions in my last 4 decades, and I can't recommend waiting until its 5 below zero (or whatever temp) to see if I'm going to be effected by wind chill according to a chart or two I'd seen on the internet.

In Florida they issue windchill warnings when it drops below 50 degrees. Just kidding.

I'm not going to use a chart to determine if I am feeling the effects of windchill, and also know from experience you can experience wind chill when its 55 degrees out...charts don't feel cold.

I've given myself hypothermia (and frostnip and bite) on more than a few occassions in my last 4 decades, and I can't recommend waiting until its 5 below zero (or whatever temp) to see if I'm going to be effected by wind chill according to a chart or two I'd seen on the internet.


But it's not just a chart someone drew up at random. They did actual human testing to create it. Take a look at the article:

http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/history_e.cfm

That's just great machka. I can probably dig up a chart that tells me how often I REALLY need to oil my chain too.....



Windchill is a perceived phenomenon, and again, charts don't feel cold.

I think that's valuable you dug them up, but I'm saying, 'don't put a lot of faith in charts when your winter survival is on the line.' go with your actual experience- if you feel chilled, you are experiencing it, even if a chart, or a stout, hardy Canadian, says you shouldn't.

But it's not just a chart someone drew up at random. They did actual human testing to create it. Take a look at the article:

http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/history_e.cfm
Wow, I can't believe they found 12 people to volunteer to test the limits of frostbite. My idea of human testing is to determine how many Coors Lights one can consume and still ride your bike safely. If you ever hear of that test, let me know.

a lot of frostbite and hypothermia data referred to today was gleaned by the Nazis in experiments run at the camps, unfortunately.

Some wacko scientist nut in Duluth, or Winnepeg, (Dr. Popsicle?) is working on pushing the limits of human cold endurance and is the source of a lot of the updated data on hypo and cold effects, but he's 100 percent WACKED.

Ok, Ok... We Get It, Machka...
Not only are you Marathon woman - but you're queen of the ice cats :D


(Love those chubby cheeks, BTW... Evolutionary adaptation?)

I am just full of questions on this topic.:)

Let's say it's a still day, no wind. Is the wind speed equivalent to your riding speed?

Can you add headwind speed to riding speed? Can you subtract tailwind speed from riding speed? What about crosswinds?

Finally, about "frostbite." Are there cold injuries that are less serious than frostbite? Should we worry about those at warmer temperatures?
Wind speed is whatever speed you're moving through the wind at. I found this out the hard way about a month ago, when a balmy -12C at the house became enough to freeze a little section of skin on my forehead on a 50 km/h downhill. It's still peeling a bit. On the flip side, if there's a 20 km/h tailwind, and you're riding 20 km/h, the effective wind speed on you is 0. Since the wind rarely goes exactly in the same direction as you do, there will always be a little breeze, but you get the idea.

This also means that wind speed + your speed is a nasty effect. If both are 20 km/h, you end up with an effective 40km/h wind. Bundle up

Less serious than frostbite is "exposure". It's the next best thing, where you mostly freeze, but there's no permanent damage to tissue. You can suffer exposure in the summertime if you're not dressed for a cool night in the mountains. Hypothermia can occur as well, followed by coma and death.

Machka...
Not only are you Marathon woman - but you're queen of the ice cats :D and for a woman so accustomed to cold, but HOT! as well, this must help keep the frostnip at bay, I believe. (No offense intended, Machka. :) )

and for a woman so accustomed to cold, but HOT! as well, this must help keep the frostnip at bay, I believe. (No offense intended, Machka. :) )

I find humor in the fact that you, Bek, actually qualified that pefectly acceptable compliment with a beg to grace.

You and I both know that Machka can kick our gonads with her mind.

I can vouch that it is very possible to ride yourself into the frostbite zone via windchill, anywhere around -5F down. Exposed skin that is away from the nose/mouth area will be susceptible and it doesn't take very long. I just slow down a little now whenever its below zero and make sure my ears and neck are covered, its pretty much the same rules with downhill skiing on a particularly cold day.

They did actual human testing to create it.

"OK, you survived 30 below, now we'll try 40 below...Is it cold enough for you yet dude? Dude? Hey dude! (sigh) OK bring in the next subject!"

much of the baseline data about hypothermia and exposure in use today was gathered using completely involuntarily subjects at the Nazi concentration camps, rithesdad. It's NOT that funny, unfortunately....

much of the baseline data about hypothermia and exposure in use today was gathered using completely involuntarily subjects at the Nazi concentration camps, rithesdad. It's NOT that funny, unfortunately....


Did you read the article I posted? All volunteers. No Nazi concentration camps.

I just read down to catch that salient fact, Machka....I know new research has been (is being) done in the last 5-10 years to update cold sciences, but do not want to forget the fact that a lot of the baseline data, and the research done to develop hypothermia and frostbite data, was done by the Nazis, and that this is the baseline data, even used in the study you linked too.... I guess a modern day 'volunteer' asking for hypo in a controlled experiment is bonechillingly humorous....

bekologist wins the prize for being the first person to bring up nazis in this thread, and we didn't even get through 1 page!