Boys hurt on bikes sue Wal-Mart

[DnvrFox]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/04/BAG2LG1DML68.DTL

Boys hurt on bikes sue Wal-Mart, importer
Marin trial to focus on wheel clasp used on millions of cycles

[Wulfheir]

Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price.

[chicharron]

What can one say. This could get very complicated. I certainly wouldn't purchase a bike from WalMart, and their bikes probably are of questionable quality. However, if the boy had continuing problems before with the bike, and the wheel had come loose before, as stated in the news story, why did the parents continue to let him ride the bike?

[joeprim]

I may not be a Wal-Mart fan, but I don't think this is their fault. If it happened on the way home after the pirchase i.e. first ride or so then maybe. It came loose before tells me they should have learned how to adjust it.

Joe

[slagjumper]

has anyone ever had a QR fail? It is such a simple device. Anyone have a failed QR mechinism? Sad but I think that it is that people dont know how to use the QR.

[GGDub]

These people are complaining about proper instructions? Tighten QR as much as possible, if there's daylight between the fork dropouts and the QR nuts, you have to tighten more. I get the feeling these people would sue a ski manufacturer if their kid skied into a tree.

But the true moral of this article is don't buy bikes from walmart or anything for that matter. Walmart, American for cheap plastic crap.

[slagjumper]

These people are complaining about proper instructions? Tighten QR as much as possible, if there's daylight between the fork dropouts and the QR nuts, you have to tighten more. I get the feeling these people would sue a ski manufacturer if their kid skied into a tree.

But the true moral of this article is don't buy bikes from walmart or anything for that matter. Walmart, American for cheap plastic crap.

Not that I like walmart but 7 bikes out of 10 million is not such a bad record. With that few problems just better (cheeper) to pay out rather then send out 10 million manuals. one adult life = 250,000. You know where they would send these bikes if WM could not sell them here? To our continent buddies to the north. Like some toybox manufacturer did in the 80s-- Courts ruled that the toy box lid was not safe, so the sale was banned in the US. So they just sent them to Canada rather than pay the 8 bucks to fix each one. I wonder what the WTO would say about that?

[San Rensho]

I'd like to know what the plaintiff's theory of liability is. It sounds like its a failure to warn theory, that Wal-mart and the manufacturer failed to instruct the purchasers on the safe use of quick releases. I think we can all agree that if you don't properly use a quick release,even the best quick release will cause you to lose a wheel. I hate to admit it, but when I was a kid and first had a quick release bike, I didn't understand it worked with a cam action and I used a piece of pipe on the lever to turn it! When the skewer broke I realised I wasn't doing it right and got help.

If this is plaintiff's theory, it has very broad implications for all bicycle sellers/manufacturers, even mechanics! Essentially, all sellers, manufacturers, mechanics would have to warn users about QRs and how to properly use them or risk a lawsuit. This will probably lead to big warnings on forks and chainstays cautioning about QRs. For low end bikes sold to unsophisticated customers like those at Wal-Mart, its probably a good thing, but can you imagine big warnings on a $5k plus carbon fibre bike? CAUTION! PELIGRO! ATENCION! QUICK RELEASE!

The other theory would be that the QR is improperly designed or manufactured. In that case, liability would be based on the the theory that even if you use the QR properly, it won't hold the wheel. If its just a cheapo chinese QR that never works, then the implications won't be that great for other manufacturers.

I'd like to see what the expert witnesses have to say,as the case will likely be a battle of the experts.

[Little Darwin]

I can just see it now... Back to non-QR for all bikes, with a warning sticker: "Axle nuts must be properly tightened before riding."

Then another suit, and the next version: "Axle nuts must be tightened to xx inch pounds before riding."

Then of course, "Axle nuts must be tightened to xx inch pounds with wheel's axle seated properly in the dropouts before riding."

Then....... well, you get the idea.

I couldn't believe it when I bought a bike a couple of years ago and it had a couple of really stupid warning stickers already.

Soon we will all pick a color of bike based in part on how well the color goes with the array of yellow warning stickers.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I can just see it now... Back to non-QR for all bikes, with a warning sticker: "Axle nuts must be properly tightened before riding."

Then another suit, and the next version: "Axle nuts must be tightened to xx inch pounds before riding."

Then of course, "Axle nuts must be tightened to xx inch pounds with wheel's axle seated properly in the dropouts before riding."

Then....... well, you get the idea.
Sure, and all pricey high end bikes sold at toney LBS' would be exempt from such warnings because their customers are all dang bicycle genuises :rolleyes: and would never do dumb things like those low class/low rent Walmart bicycle customers.

[genec]

Sure, and all pricey high end bikes sold at toney LBS' would be exempt from such warnings because their customers are all dang bicycle genuises :rolleyes: and would never do dumb things like those low class/low rent Walmart bicycle customers.

Or perhap the LBS takes the time to show the customer how such things work where as X-mart takes the time to show you to the register.

BTW you seem to be negative on just about everything... what is it you are "for."

[GGDub]

Sure, and all pricey high end bikes sold at toney LBS' would be exempt from such warnings because their customers are all dang bicycle genuises :rolleyes: and would never do dumb things like those low class/low rent Walmart bicycle customers.

Actually, almost every LBS I've ever been in takes the time to warn people new to QR's about proper use. In order to buy a bike in the LBS you 9 times out of ten talk to a sales rep. At walmart, you either grab one and walk it to the cashier or in extreme cases get a blue vested 10th grader to take it off the rack for you.

[noisebeam]

Also don't assume the wall-bike QR works as solidly or reliably as the QRs y'all are used to from the decent bikes you get at an LBS.

I don't understand why bike wheels have QR anyway. I've taken off my front wheel about 3x in the past year, so its saved me perhaps 15s total this year. Wow.

Al

[chicharron]

Of course a bicylce from a LBS will be assembled properly, opposed to a a 7.00 per hour Walmart employee. However, I believe that almost all the new bicycles have a warning about securing the quick release pasted on all bikes. The parents should have some responsability in this.

[linux_author]

- i like the term for fork/axle end indentations:

"Lawyers Lips"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

- shame about the kids though...

- this is one reason i *always* spin the wheels, clip in, and then do a short test spin before every ride...

[vegcrow]

Anybody who purchases anything from WalMart has already surrendered the moral high ground required to file a lawsuit against anybody.

[EricDJ]

We just got our kid his first bike at a Toys-r-Us which is still along the same lines. Its a disposable Mongoose bike, after he gets a little better at riding, he can get the kids Trek 220 MTB or KDR1000 he wants.

I however requested a boxed up bike and not a built one so I could lube everything and build it properly. The thing that scares me about this lawsuit is why kids are using QR's that don't understand how they work. You can only blame a manufacturer so much. My Airborne doesn't have a sticker on it about QR's, The instructions may have, I don't know. My son has had bike parts explained to him, he has a helmet, reflectors and lighting. I feel confident in him. Just handing your kid a bike without explaining things is bad parenting.

[GGDub]

Also don't assume the wall-bike QR works as solidly or reliably as the QRs y'all are used to from the decent bikes you get at an LBS.

I don't understand why bike wheels have QR anyway. I've taken off my front wheel about 3x in the past year, so its saved me perhaps 15s total this year. Wow.

Al

I'd be a very frustrated man without them. Just this past month, I've taken a wheel off at least 5 times. Plus it saves carrying a ratchet and a spanner with you on every ride in case you get a flat. Kids bikes used to not come with them, but as the failsafes (like the lawyer's lips) were added, it started becoming really hard for wheels to come off even when not completely tightened. For example, I once road 10km on some serious single track with my rear QR undone (I must've of caught it on something). I finally realized it was pretty loose when I started having shifting issues.

[noisebeam]

Plus it saves carrying a ratchet and a spanner with you on every ride in case you get a flat.
My rear wheel uses bolts. I carry a mini 15mm wrench with me and can release the wheel nearly as quickly as with a QR. When I get a new front wheel, it will be held on with bolts too.
Al

[Bianchiriderlon]

I don't understand why bike wheels have QR anyway. I've taken off my front wheel about 3x in the past year, so its saved me perhaps 15s total this year. Wow.

Al

I think it is in partial fulfillment of some riders' racer fantasies. I have QR on my EVOX bent, front wheel only. The rear is bolted on. BTW, there is a sticker near the front of the bike explaining that to be safe one need check the QR prior to setting out.

[GGDub]

My rear wheel uses bolts. I carry a mini 15mm wrench with me and can release the wheel nearly as quickly as with a QR. When I get a new front wheel, it will be held on with bolts too.
Al

Are you that worried about the QR or is it just cheaper to get a bolted skewer? Besides with the locking mechanism of QR, you should be able to get it on just as tight if not tighter than a bolt, especially with just a mini spanner.
And its not a fulfillment of racer fantasies. Its a serious convenience, I change wheels often due to weather conditions. I'm always repacking hubs since I ride all winter. Finally, I use a fork down rack on my car so I need to remove the front wheel because of that.

[noisebeam]

Are you that worried about the QR or is it just cheaper to get a bolted skewer? Besides with the locking mechanism of QR, you should be able to get it on just as tight if not tighter than a bolt, especially with just a mini spanner.
And its not a fulfillment of racer fantasies. Its a serious convenience, I change wheels often due to weather conditions. I'm always repacking hubs since I ride all winter. Finally, I use a fork down rack on my car so I need to remove the front wheel because of that.
Firstly, this is a really silly sub-thread. ;) All in fun.
I have no worries about QR, no concern about costs. I want bolts on front to match the rear, thats all. My rear wheel has never slipped with hand wrench tightened bolts (and a LBS tightened QR has on my other bike). I just never found the benefit of QR. It eliminates the need for a tool, but doesn't eliminate the motions needed to remove wheel.
The idea of convience to remove wheel doesn't makes sense to me if one is repacking hubs. The repacking process would far outweigh the bolt problem.

Al

[vegcrow]

I don't understand why bike wheels have QR anyway.
If you haul your bike around with a roof-mounted carrier on your car, you'll have to take the front wheel off every time. That can be tedious with a wrench.

[noisebeam]

If you haul your bike around with a roof-mounted carrier on your car, you'll have to take the front wheel off every time. That can be tedious with a wrench.
Ahh, that makes sense.
But rarely if ever do I see kids wall mart bikes on a roof carrier. ;)

Al

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Or perhap the LBS takes the time to show the customer how such things work where as X-mart takes the time to show you to the register.

BTW you seem to be negative on just about everything... what is it you are "for."
I am for thinking with my head somewhere other than in the clouds or in a dark place..

How much LBS "instruction" is remembered two seconds after a child (or most adults ride) are out the door?

If an LBS was interested in children's welfare they would never sell a bike for a child/youth with QR wheels. Period. Dang the bogus LBS "instruction" rationale/excuse.

[roccobike]

Of course a bicylce from a LBS will be assembled properly, opposed to a a 7.00 per hour Walmart employee. However, I believe that almost all the new bicycles have a warning about securing the quick release pasted on all bikes. The parents should have some responsability in this.
Good point. I would like to add to your comment. Have you ever taken your bike back to the LBS about a month after the purchase? I was met with "Oh, can we adjust your cables? Is the bike working OK?, Any problems? Don't forget you have a free tune-up in one month." And at Wally World they offer what kind of service/tune up? Yeah, right!
Actually, the bike shop is protecting themselves by offering free tune-ups and adjustments. If the subject Wal Mart bike had been returned for adjustments, any competent bike mechanic would have asked if there were any problems, found the QR issue and repaired, replaced or instructed the owner how to properly adjust the QR. Just one more reason to buy from the LBS.

[tippy]

My rear wheel uses bolts. I carry a mini 15mm wrench with me and can release the wheel nearly as quickly as with a QR. When I get a new front wheel, it will be held on with bolts too.
Al

The old bikes I used to ride had nuts on the axles.

What does your bolts screw into?

Thanks,
d.tipton

[KrisPistofferson]

WalMart and their bikes do indeed suck, but has anyone ever tried to break through the wall of densitude of someone who has convinced themselves that $100 dollars is all they're going to spend on a bicycle, either for themselves or their children? It's impossible. This sort of problem, (and WalMart,) won't go away until people learn they can pay more to get something of quality that will last longer and be (gasp) safe.

[noisebeam]

The old bikes I used to ride had nuts on the axles.

What does your bolts screw into?

Thanks,
d.tipton
Doh, you got me. I don't know why I was writing bolts when I was thinking nuts. ;)

Al

[noisebeam]

WalMart and their bikes do indeed suck, but has anyone ever tried to break through the wall of densitude of someone who has convinced themselves that $100 dollars is all they're going to spend on a bicycle, either for themselves or their children? It's impossible. This sort of problem, (and WalMart,) won't go away until people learn they can pay more to get something of quality that will last longer and be (gasp) safe.
How long should a bike for a fast growing kid last?

Ideally they should be passed on from kid to kid.

Does one buy a $100 bike that will be trashed by kid and last 1-2yrs with minimal care or does one buy a $200 bike that will be trashed by the kid and still only last 1-2yrs before its outgrown and requiring $50 in repairs before it can be passed on to another kid.

Al

[chicharron]

Good point. I would like to add to your comment. Have you ever taken your bike back to the LBS about a month after the purchase? I was met with "Oh, can we adjust your cables? Is the bike working OK?, Any problems? Don't forget you have a free tune-up in one month." And at Wally World they offer what kind of service/tune up? Yeah, right!
Actually, the bike shop is protecting themselves by offering free tune-ups and adjustments. If the subject Wal Mart bike had been returned for adjustments, any competent bike mechanic would have asked if there were any problems, found the QR issue and repaired, replaced or instructed the owner how to properly adjust the QR. Just one more reason to buy from the LBS.
Exactly. Now if the family cannot afford the prices at the local bike shop, they can still buy a used name brand bike from a garage sale or the classifeds, and take it in to a friendly bike shop and ask the to check it over, tune it up, and see if everything is ready to go. Again, parental repsonsablility come in to play.

[alanbikehouston]

Anyone who spends a couple of hours riding with a boy who is nine or ten years old quickly sees that they approach bike riding differently than adults. They are going to push a bike to its designed limits, and then beyond those limits.

Knowing that, last year I gave my nephew a Giant BMX bike. The frame, wheels and components were designed knowing the bike would be heavily abused. Massively over-built frame, rims, hubs, handlebars, cranks. If I loaned the bike to a guy who weighed two hundred pounds, took him to a local park and said, "do anything you want"...the bike would survive unharmed.

And, a simple, tough bike bike requires zero upkeep. The hubs are securely bolted to massive dropouts. No quick releases. Just one speed. No front suspension. No rear suspension. Just put air in the tires and go.

Wal-Mart continues to sell kids bikes with 14 speeds, 21 speeds, front suspension, rear suspension, quick releases. All made "just" good enough to meet U.S. government standards IF the bike is expertly assembled and adjusted and IF the rider simply cruises on smooth pavement at moderate speeds.

The stockroom boy does not have a clue how to assemble these bikes. Neither do most dads or moms. Close a quick release correctly? Half the quick releases I see on adult bikes have been closed incorrectly. Expecting that a nine year old will follow the precise tightening procedure, AND have the muscles to close a quick release tightly is a fantasy.

Who is to blame? The parents. I don't give kids guns or knives to play with. Too dangerous. I won't give a kid a 21 speed dual-suspension bike from Wal-Mart either. Too dangerous.

Wal-Mart's slave labor factories in communist China could turn out high quality single speed BMX style bikes that are safe and reliable for a retail price under $100 (given their dual suspension 21 speed bikes sell for $59 and $79). A single speed bike with a coaster brake is so simple to assemble that a monkey, or a Wal-Mart employee could do it correctly. And, if a customer said to a Wal-Mart clerk "My kid wants a dual suspension bike", the employee could be instructed to say "We are a toy store...we don't sell real bikes...if you want a real bike, you need to go to a real bike store."

When will Wal-Mart begin to act in a responsible way? When their survival depends upon it. If Americans stay away from Wal-Mart by the millions, the company will be forced to re-examine how they do business. But, as long as most Americans are happy to buy cheap commie-made crap, then crap is what Americans will get.

[Savas]

How many bikes does WalMart sell in a year? How many lawsuits have been filed? This might be blown out of proportion.

[KrisPistofferson]

Anyone who spends a couple of hours riding with a boy who is nine or ten years old quickly sees that they approach bike riding differently than adults. They are going to push a bike to its designed limits, and then beyond those limits.

Knowing that, last year I gave my nephew a Giant BMX bike. The frame, wheels and components were designed knowing the bike would be heavily abused. Massively over-built frame, rims, hubs, handlebars, cranks. If I loaned the bike to a guy who weighed two hundred pounds, took him to a local park and said, "do anything you want"...the bike would survive unharmed.

And, a simple, tough bike bike requires zero upkeep. The hubs are securely bolted to massive dropouts. No quick releases. Just one speed. No front suspension. No rear suspension. Just put air in the tires and go.

Wal-Mart continues to sell kids bikes with 14 speeds, 21 speeds, front suspension, rear suspension, quick releases. All made "just" good enough to meet U.S. government standards IF the bike is expertly assembled and adjusted and IF the rider simply cruises on smooth pavement at moderate speeds.

The stockroom boy does not have a clue how to assemble these bikes. Neither do most dads or moms. Close a quick release correctly? Half the quick releases I see on adult bikes have been closed incorrectly. Expecting that a nine year old will follow the precise tightening procedure, AND have the muscles to close a quick release tightly is a fantasy.

Who is to blame? The parents. I don't give kids guns or knives to play with. Too dangerous. I won't give a kid a 21 speed dual-suspension bike from Wal-Mart either. Too dangerous.

Wal-Mart's slave labor factories in communist China could turn out high quality single speed BMX style bikes that are safe and reliable for a retail price under $100 (given their dual suspension 21 speed bikes sell for $59 and $79). A single speed bike with a coaster brake is so simple to assemble that a monkey, or a Wal-Mart employee could do it correctly. And, if a customer said to a Wal-Mart clerk "My kid wants a dual suspension bike", the employee could be instructed to say "We are a toy store...we don't sell real bikes...if you want a real bike, you need to go to a real bike store."

When will Wal-Mart begin to act in a responsible way? When their survival depends upon it. If Americans stay away from Wal-Mart by the millions, the company will be forced to re-examine how they do business. But, as long as most Americans are happy to buy cheap commie-made crap, then crap is what Americans will get.
Excellent post. That pretty much sums it up.

[Poguemahone]

I'm always amazed by the assumption that a LBS bike is automatically safer and better. I've said this before: it is entirely possible to live in a large metropolitan area and not have access to a single decent LBS. I live in a city of 3/4 million, and there is not a single one here. Last bike I bought at an LBS here, three major components-- the seatpost, the handlebars, and the crank-- all broke in the first six months of riding. The LBS refused to service the bike under warranty, claiming my ten mile commute constituted "unusual use". Other LBSs radiate attitude, work shifty repair scams ("your bike is too old and unsafe, let us sell you a new one"), or are completely clueless and staffed by employees who don't know the difference between the bottom bracket and the headset. We have a co-op, recently opened, which is at least promising, but for the last twenty years or so, you're on your own.

A LBS bike is no guarantee of proper repair, assembly, service, or instruction. LBS bikes, especially at the lower price points, are cheaply spec'ed, and assembled by low-wage workers. Ask your local mechanic what he/she makes, it ain't much. Riders should learn basic maintainence on their own.

I'm no fan of wal-mart bikes, but properly maintained, they're capable rides. I wouldn't ride one, prefering my collection of 20+ year old roadies.

The moral: DIY. Learn to work on your bike. A shop is at best marginally better IME than Wal-mart. Marginally.

[JASON R. TOMSIC]

I'm sorry, but this is just an example of people not knowing how to use a quick release. PERIOD! ...... And I am not a fan of WalMart.

[Cyclepath]

Excellent post. That pretty much sums it up.

I agree, except that there is little communism in China. The Chinese bosses are born-again capitalist robber barons who would make Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, & Henry Clay Frick proud.

[roccobike]

WalMart and their bikes do indeed suck, but has anyone ever tried to break through the wall of densitude of someone who has convinced themselves that $100 dollars is all they're going to spend on a bicycle, either for themselves or their children? It's impossible. This sort of problem, (and WalMart,) won't go away until people learn they can pay more to get something of quality that will last longer and be (gasp) safe.
I regret to say that I am guilty of just that. I bought a $54 Wally World special when my youngest was an oversized 11 year old. He was too big for a 20 inch frame and too small for a full sized mountain bike. So I decided to save a little money and buy a 18 speed, 24 inch wheel, Roadmaster. No suspension or FRs, and it was cheap. It was an OK bike but the deraileur never did work right. I followed this experiment two years later by going the garage sale route (see post by Chicharron above). I bought him a 15 year old Gary Fisher HOO KOO E KOO. What a difference! It ran like a champ. After that, I was convinced you're better off with a used brand name bike than a new Wally World bike.

[catatonic]

has anyone ever had a QR fail? It is such a simple device. Anyone have a failed QR mechinism? Sad but I think that it is that people dont know how to use the QR.


Exactly. This is why I firmly believe NO x-mart bike should have a quick-release, and instead should have nutted skewers. If they want QR, they should buy one from a bike shop, where they can be instructed in their useage. This should also be mentioned in the manual for these bikes.

Pretty much fools will use the QR lever as a means to twist the nut tighter, which tears up the metal that those forks are made out of, or eats the teeth on the skewer...which will cause a failure sooner or later.

[acidosmosis]

It seems more than one party may be at fault here. Fact: If Walmart covered up the problem and did not intend on correcting it, they are at fault and should be penalized for it. 98% of people who purchase a bike at Walmart are never in the life-time of the bike going to "check it" so odds are most of the parents/children riding the bike never once really checked for any problems.

[msheron]

I read the story and if what they claim as far as the company knowing of a problem existing with the QR and Wal-Mart attempting to assist the company in a coverup.......where they got that information is suspect to me, then they may have a legitimate suit.

Now, let me put in my non-legal two cents!

Why would anyone buy a mountain bike from Wal-Mart other than my ***** is too cheap to buy a decent one for about $150 more from a LBS......low end mind you but none the same, better than the bike from WM! If you have any idea what so ever your child will be doing some heavy and hard riding (which all kids will so the parent does not even have to think on this one folks!), get them a decent bike for that nature of riding or no bike at all. And educate yourself as to how the components work on that bike....................case in point, my friend has his son a MB and will not let him ride it until I go there today to instruct him on how the shifters work and other key aspects of the bike. I think sometimes it is a ill-informed parent that is more dangerous than the hardware itself!

[slvoid]

The true moral of the story is that the american population a) is pretty stupid on average and b) will sue for any and everything out there.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

The true moral of the story is that the american population a) is pretty stupid on average and b) will sue for any and everything out there.
The morals of this thread appear to be according to some of the posters -

1. LBS' are run by saints selling only perfect products ideally selected by the beknighted owner to meet the specific needs of every individual customer. These bikes never go bad because the customers have all been properly instructed to return the perfect bikes to the LBS on a strict schedule for top to bottom maintenance where nothing will escape the attention of the eagle-eyed professional mechanics. The perfect people who buy their bikes from LBS will religously comply/obey with their instructions.

2. Everyplace else is run by and for jack-donkey's who ruin it for the Real Cyclists.

3. Parental responsibility and intelligence (and worthiness of their genetic pool) can be determined by their brand of bike and place of purchase.

[KrisPistofferson]

The morals of this thread appear to be according to some of the posters - Wowzers! My hyperbole-meter is going off the scale! Let's see:

1. LBS' are run by saints selling only perfect products ideally selected by the beknighted owner to meet the specific needs of every individual customer. These bikes never go bad because the customers have all been properly instructed to return the perfect bikes to the LBS on a strict schedule for top to bottom maintenance where nothing will escape the attention of the eagle-eyed professional mechanics. The perfect people who buy their bikes from LBS will religously comply/obey with their instructions.I don't recall anyone ever saying anything to this effect, but if you're comparing the LBS to the technical expertise of your average K-Mart stockboy, I guess that's a fair analysis.

2. Everyplace else is run by and for jack-donkey's who ruin it for the Real Cyclists.I betcha the 16 year old kid they pull from mopping up spills and breaking down cardboard boxes is generally commended for the speed with which he throws those Chinese failuminum bikes together, not how safely or expertly he did it.<-And that's NOT an exaggeration.

3. Parental responsibility and intelligence (and worthiness of their genetic pool) can be determined by their brand of bike and place of purchase.Ah, the old "I don't want to buy crap for me or my family, so I must be an elitist who likes to put on airs."-argument. Nice
strawman. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman#In_logic_and_rhetoric) The third strawman of this post, actually. I think that's some sort of record.

[vegcrow]

I am for thinking with my head somewhere other than in the clouds or in a dark place..
Then share some wisdom, please! The only thing I am clear on after reading many of your posts in multiple forums is that a spandex-wearing clown riding a top-notch road bike ruined your birthday party when you were a kid. Enough with the negativity! Spread some light for those of us with cranial corks in our darkened rectums! :p

If I'm wrong, please correct me. I just can't figure out where all your hostility toward local bike shops and their patrons is coming from. ....waaaaitaminute.... you don't own stock in Wal-Mart, do you?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Wowzers!
I don't recall anyone ever saying anything to this effect
Then you have a very poor memory.

[beppe]

Ok.

I don't normally venture into the advocacy forum, but I saw the thread from the main page, and decided there needed to be some clarification. I have an acquaintance involved in this case on the plaintiff's side, so I have a little more knowledge than just the SF Chronicle article.

First, the real issue at stake is that the bikes at Wal-Mart are often assembled poorly. AFAICT, the QR thing has to do with a judgement by the lead attorney that that is the most likely to result in a favorable judgement. During the time period in question, there were no lawyer tabs on the front forks.

HOWEVER, because these bikes are assembled by kids who don't know how a bike goes together. This has led to a series of incidents with QR skewers, forks, and even at least 1 missing quill (!).

The second part of the case is that the plaintiffs feel that Wal-Mart has been unresponsive to non-lawsuit-related correctional action.

**I am not a lawyer**

Personally, I think that it's unrealistic to expect everyone to know how bicycle mechanics work, especially when it comes fully assembled. I also think that when you buy something like a bike at a store, you expect it to be built correctly.

Edit: parts redacted, so as not to do damage to the case.

[vegcrow]

I also think that when you buy something like a bike at a store, you expect it to be built correctly.
Purely to beat a dead horse: When I buy a bike at a bike store, I expect it to be built correctly. Any place else and I (the consumer) would really double check it. But if a business (any business) is going to sell bikes, it should take the responsibility to sell them in proper condition, and that I understand is the oversimplified basis of the law suit. If I buy a new car from a Toyota dealer, I'd drive it off the lot expecting magic. If I buy a discount car from Mega-Lo-Mart in the aisle between the 12-gallon peanut butter and the no-brand blue jeans, I think the first place I'd take it is to a good mechanic, and I'd keep the receipt handy.

[cydewaze]

Well if there is a defect in the type of QR used, then the trial will bring that to light. But, I have seen SO many Wal-Mart bikes that have been improperly assembled (mostly the front fork is installed facing the wrong way) that I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bike problem and not a rider problem.

[Travelinguyrt]

Some of Todays parents of little kids have about mechanical knowledge as a toad......and less concern about something called parental responsibility
Buy cheap,throw away, get out the charge card I'm out of cash,"You want how much for that bike?" "I can get it cheaper at the chinese outlet store"

Some times I wonder if the kids are not "throw" away also