Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - What hubs use Allen bolts

I know both the P guys do, but Paul is spaced too wide, and Phil is priced too high. It's not the most important thing in the world to me, but I like the idea of allen bolts instead of track nuts, because it's one less tool I need to cary around, and they look nice. So I'm just curious if anyone else makes a fixed hub with allen bolts.

You could go hollow axle with BMX style allen bolts instead of QRs...

paul is spaced to wide?

mavic 520s

Is there not the chance of a little stripping from the alan key over time? Not Phils, but the alan key nuts on my ENO eccentric hubs have stripped a bit (more than likely from the repeated chain tensioning that results from riding the goddamned things fixed).Can't seem to ever keep them lock tight and have given up and allowed a very slight bit of allowable slack in my chain...

You could go hollow axle with BMX style allen bolts instead of QRs...

can you give use more info on this?

Level Hubs

pauls are available in 120 spacing. how is that too wide?
(or are you talkin' their weirdass chainline?)

While we're on the topic, why do Phil's et al use allen bolts instead of track nuts? I can't see any point beyond minimizing the number of tools one would carry for on-the-go repairs. It seems to me that it would also be easier to strip a 6mm bolt versus a 15mm nut.
So is this a case of new and not-so-improved technology or am I missing something?

can you give use more info on this?
Yeah, if you find/use a hub with a hollow axle meant for a QR, you can swap out the QR portion of the axle for an allen head skewer. I can't find any online, but I believe they wer X-Games branded (Bell, maybe?). Happy hunting!

twe means this:

You just get hubs with hollow axles and replace the QR skewer with the hex bolt on skewers...

http://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photos/medium/NS-BOS.gif

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=135&subcategory=1175&brand=&sku=8197&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

[and yes, a QR/bolt on skewer will work with ss/fixed gear.]

Is there not the chance of a little stripping from the alan key over time? Not Phils, but the alan key nuts on my ENO eccentric hubs have stripped a bit (more than likely from the repeated chain tensioning that results from riding the goddamned things fixed).Can't seem to ever keep them lock tight and have given up and allowed a very slight bit of allowable slack in my chain...

I've had this problem, too, with the fixed side of my ENO though the hub nuts haven't stripped. My solution is to use an adjustable wrench when, for whatever reason I remove the rear wheel, to adjust for tension. But this means carrying around "another tool." Also: I'm fairly careful making the adjustment, using a Park hex wrench or three-way and sinking it deep into the hub nut. It's frustrating, I know.

twe means this:

You just get hubs with hollow axles and replace the QR skewer with the hex bolt on skewers...


talk about stripping...these things are the worst! but a quick solution to the problem if you've got the
hollow axles...

While we're on the topic, why do Phil's et al use allen bolts instead of track nuts? I can't see any point beyond minimizing the number of tools one would carry for on-the-go repairs. It seems to me that it would also be easier to strip a 6mm bolt versus a 15mm nut.
So is this a case of new and not-so-improved technology or am I missing something?

My first track hubs had track nuts.
After tightening and untightening a bit the nut crapped out.
I bought new good nuts and a proper wrench for them - the still crapped out after a while.
After stripping the old hub I got a Phils with allens.
So far there has been no issue with the allens. Not sure why that is but the Phil allens definitely work.
Lack of the integrated washer deal might explain it a little.
I also seem able to tighten the allens a lot more.

pauls are available in 120 spacing. how is that too wide?
(or are you talkin' their weirdass chainline?)

I thought they were only available in 130mm. they have weirdass chainline? I like stuff to all be 120/42mm for simplicity's sake. Buy stuff that adhere's to a common standard, and it's eaiser to get other stuff to work with it. But anyway... yeah Level stuff looks nice too. Isn't it up there with Phil pricewise though?

I've had this problem, too, with the fixed side of my ENO though the hub nuts haven't stripped. My solution is to use an adjustable wrench when, for whatever reason I remove the rear wheel, to adjust for tension. But this means carrying around "another tool." Also: I'm fairly careful making the adjustment, using a Park hex wrench or three-way and sinking it deep into the hub nut. It's frustrating, I know.

terribly frustrating...my debernardi track frame is in the mail and the pro-max's and deep v
's are laced and waiting...

Yeah, if you find/use a hub with a hollow axle meant for a QR, you can swap out the QR portion of the axle for an allen head skewer. I can't find any online, but I believe they wer X-Games branded (Bell, maybe?). Happy hunting!

i can only assume your talking about something like this :http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=135&subcategory=1175&brand=&sku=8197&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename= from nashbar.
would these mess with the compression of the bearings. in other words would they apply extra force to the bearings

Those are tranx-X brand and have worked pretty well on all of my bikes w/ hollow axles (all non-fixed, though). The key to not stripping parts is to always use the proper tool in the proper fashion. For allens, make sure that the tool is as far into the hole as it can possibly go. This gives you much more contact area and less chance of slipping. For track nuts, use a properly-sized box end wrench if you can so that you contact all sides at the same time. Use an adjustable wrench only when absolutely necessary.

I also seem able to tighten the allens a lot more.

...more that your first pair of hex nuts or other track bolts? It still seems to me that the inconvenience of carrying a 300 gram 15mm wrench is outweighed by the assurance that it won't fail.
But maybe I'm just putting too much faith in 9mm of metal.

chris king makes hubs that use fun bolts

...more that your first pair of hex nuts or other track bolts? It still seems to me that the inconvenience of carrying a 300 gram 15mm wrench is outweighed by the assurance that it won't fail.
But maybe I'm just putting too much faith in 9mm of metal.

I can tighten them more that any traditional track nut I have ever used.

I had the same doubts about the allens as you, but I can reassure you that they work very well.
There is one additional benefit with allens and that is that you can remove the weel without breaking the chain even if is it all the way forward in the dropouts, since the allen bolts come out all the way.
The "no additional tool benefit" I think is exagerated too. I do not notice the weight difference of my bag since I removed it.

chris king makes hubs that use fun bolts
Singlespeed coasty only.

Singlespeed coasty only.

Hey, it's a singlespeed forum!

Van Dessel makes a hub that uses Allen head cap screws. I don't know the chain line though (but would like to).

i can only assume your talking about something like this :http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=135&subcategory=1175&brand=&sku=8197&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename= from nashbar.
would these mess with the compression of the bearings. in other words would they apply extra force to the bearings
They wouldn't mess with the force on the bearings any more than the current quick releases, or a normal bolt-on axle.

Van Dessel makes a hub that uses Allen head cap screws. I don't know the chain line though (but would like to).

Those look nice. they are spaced 130mm or 135, so no go on my frame, and it doesn't speak about chainline.

http://www.vandesselsports.com/accessories.php

While we're on the topic, why do Phil's et al use allen bolts instead of track nuts? I can't see any point beyond minimizing the number of tools one would carry for on-the-go repairs. It seems to me that it would also be easier to strip a 6mm bolt versus a 15mm nut.

Using bolts means you have a lot more thread engagement which near enough eliminates the chance of stripping threads. Most also use standard sized bolts so if you have a problem with them it is easy to find replacements. Don't like allen heads? Just get replacement bolts with heads of your choice.
It also makes it easy to use oversize hollow axles which are stronger than smaller diameter solid axles without much weight penalty.

whats the chainline on pauls? i have some but can't remember of the top of my head and dont feel like measuring, but i could have sworn it was 42

and yeah, pauls makes 120mm. thats why i was confused as to what the OP meant about being spaced too wide.

there was some anecdotal comment in a thread a week or so back that said they have a 46mm chainline. i have seen absolutely nothing else confirming this and am strongly inclined to believe that they have a standard track chainline unless i hear something directly from paul about that.

If anyone is looking for decentsingle speed hubs like this, a few bmx companies are now making alen bolt axels like phils.

They wouldn't mess with the force on the bearings any more than the current quick releases, or a normal bolt-on axle.

but quick release does apply excess force on the bearings, that's why when you overhaul you have to allow a slight bit of play. a hub with quick release will have play when it's off the bike and be fine on the bike. bolt-on axle hubs are easier to overhaul because of this

while on the subject of nuts, where can you get the old school wingnuts?

there was some anecdotal comment in a thread a week or so back that said they have a 46mm chainline. i have seen absolutely nothing else confirming this and am strongly inclined to believe that they have a standard track chainline unless i hear something directly from paul about that.

that was me. i've got a mail from paul himself saying it's 44mm. his recommendation was to flip the cog for use with 42mm gear or buy a differently spaced bb. either one sounds like a hack to me. i'll stick with standard 42mm gear, which sucks cause it would have been cool to have my name on the hubs.

that was me. i've got a mail from paul himself saying it's 44mm. his recommendation was to flip the cog for use with 42mm gear or buy a differently spaced bb. either one sounds like a hack to me. i'll stick with standard 42mm gear, which sucks cause it would have been cool to have my name on the hubs.

Well the original ruckus was me... I had a wheelset all built up only to find this out. So a huge THANK YOU for comfirming that. I was starting to get worried that I was a complete moron.

With my real-world calculations using an EAI cog, the actual, measured chainline was 46.5. Maybe w/ a DA cog it would be less. I really wish Paul would publish that **** on their website. You could argue that you just need to throw a spacer behind the drive-side BB cup but still, why kludge **** up for just one wheelset? Paul is all about the proprietary ****. ****.

while on the subject of nuts, where can you get the old school wingnuts?
Snag some from an old French bike.

i still cant believe i spent as much as i did on my phil rear

i have zero dollars to my name and a bike with a wheel that cost $350

feck

Those look nice. they are spaced 130mm or 135, so no go on my frame, and it doesn't speak about chainline.

http://www.vandesselsports.com/accessories.php


I have a set of those hubs on the Gogo hoop rims and would have to say that they are fukin sweet. Can't go wrong for the price