I just had a frustrating experience that I want to share. I live about 30 miles outside of Chicago and I had planned on visiting a friend in the city tonight. I'm 20 years old, attending university and home for the holidays. I have never owned a car and probably never will, so I try to avoid using my parents' cars as much as I can. My plan was to take the train into the city and bike the rest of the way, but when my parents found that out they were very upset and insisted on driving to bring me home right away. My mother, who rides 8 miles to work most days and is vehemently anti-car and anti-sprawl, told me that what I was trying to do was childish, irresponsible and wrong. I had a long argument with her and my dad, and they insisted that biking at night is a wrong choice and that I am a disrespectful child for choosing that. My stance is that biking at night is my choice and it is very important.
What do you think, about the parent-child dynamic but also more importantly about the risks of living car-free?
filtersweep
12-22-05, 11:15 PM
I always hated that about being a college student... parents had no clue what I was doing at school, but suddenly became my parents again when I was home. It is just a fact of life// really has nothing to do with car free living.
KrisPistofferson
12-22-05, 11:20 PM
Biking at night is fine, if you're lit up.
Dahon.Steve
12-23-05, 07:55 AM
What lights did you have. I have 3 bright red blinkies in the back I consider essential.
BenyBen
12-23-05, 08:34 AM
Equip yourself with lights and a visibility-vest if you have to and show your parrents just how visible you are in the dark.
NimbusRidesFixd
12-23-05, 08:55 AM
You're 20 years old. Do what you want! Your parents can say all they want, but you're the one who makes the desicions. It's the same way for me, when I come home for holidays, they seem to beret me on countless pointless topics about what I'm doing with my life. I try to think from their point of view, and normally always decide that my point of view is better - from a bike!
Chad
royalflash
12-23-05, 09:22 AM
Your parents are just worried about your safety thats all. Its natural as a parent to be a bit over-protective- why not just put their minds at rest this once and let them drive you. They looked after you for quite a few years - you owe them that. The time will come soon enough when you are on your own.
PKG
12-23-05, 12:07 PM
Tell them what I find about night riding--- that it is actually MORE safe. There are less cars on the road, which means less of them to hit you, but also it is easier to locate them. I can hear one coming from further away without all the other noise from all the other cars, and their head lights makes telling a moving car from a parked car easier.
and then tell them to shut up or buy a car. How can you live car free and not ride at night? that makes no sense to me.
PKG
12-23-05, 12:08 PM
Just make sure you DO HAVE LIGHTS!!!
cerewa
12-23-05, 02:13 PM
A really well-lit cyclist is more visible at night than in the day. You can't easily use lights to stand out from whatever random stuff is on the sides of the roads in the day, but you can at night. Use multiple lights if you want to be assured of giving drivers better depth perception.
Platy
12-23-05, 02:40 PM
My son left a couple of days ago on a bike trip to visit relatives 90 miles away. I inspired him to get into cycling in the first place. He's better at it than I am. We've done overnight bike tours together. He's got good lights and all the safety equipment. And yet, and yet ... I still worry about him. Sorry guys, parents are just that way and nothing's going to change it.
Maybe cycling parents can be even worse because they know how bad it can get out there sometimes.
Roody
12-23-05, 04:25 PM
Were they more worried about your being seen or being mugged?
I have to commute home from work evry night, and do other night riding too. However, unlike others who posted here, I do not think night riding is "just as safe" as day riding. But it is "safe enough" if you follow the rules:
Light your bike well. At minimum, have a bright headlight pointing to the front and a bright blinky in the rear. (Find lots of information on lighting in the Commuter subforum.)
Be even more alert and ride further toward the center of the street as appropriate. The biggest danger is from cars turning out in front of you or into you.
Plan your route to avoid "bad" neighborhoods. Don't stop in secluded areas. If you ride a lot at night, consider self-defense options.
Make sure your bike is in excellent condition. Carry tools and a spare tube.
Carry enough money or credit card for taxis if you really get stuck. Or carry a cell phone and the number of somebody who will come and get you if you break down.
I'm not saying any of this to scare people off. Just common sense precautions.
matt_savvy
12-23-05, 07:41 PM
tell your parents to stop being such cops and save it. riding at night is just a fact of life as far as being car free.
thelung
12-24-05, 01:18 AM
I am also 20, my mom worries about me riding at night but she doesnt try to stop me. You're old enough to judge the situation on your own. Show them how visible you are and point out that you rarely have to negotiate traffic at night. If they still say no, I would just do it anyway.
531phile
12-24-05, 02:20 AM
Yo, you should be glad you have parents that care enough to be worried about you. If your mom really starts nagging you, just ask her to buy a nice set of Halogen Niterider lights.
RacerX
12-24-05, 03:02 AM
I dunno, your parents might have a point. I've seen someone get mugged on a bike and it's not gentle. Chicago at night...might be prudent to take your mom up on that ride.
Not saying you should live your life in fear but a healthy dose of self-preservation over idealism will give you another day to be idealistic and angry.
531phile
12-24-05, 03:10 AM
I dunno, your parents might have a point. I've seen someone get mugged on a bike and it's not gentle. Chicago at night...might be prudent to take your mom up on that ride.
Not saying you should live your life in fear but a healthy dose of self-preservation over idealism will give you another day to be idealistic and angry.
Sounds like some wise advice, IMO. Besides, isn't Chicago bone chiling cold this time of year?
ViciousCycle
12-24-05, 06:11 AM
I dunno, your parents might have a point. I've seen someone get mugged on a bike and it's not gentle. Chicago at night...might be prudent to take your mom up on that ride.
Not saying you should live your life in fear but a healthy dose of self-preservation over idealism will give you another day to be idealistic and angry.
As someone who lives in Chicago and who cycles day/night year-round, I know that there are many neighborhoods that are quite pleasant/safe to cycle in at night. On the other hand, the expressways at night can be pretty scary. I've had pleasant, safe nights cycling through Chicago winters whereas one of the scariest nights of my life was a summer night in a car on the Dan Ryan Expressway.
oldguy52
12-24-05, 07:00 AM
Agree with Vicious Cycle. I don't think your parents problem is riding at night, or lights. I think it's *riding at night in Chicago* There's a lot of areas there where I didn't care to go at night, even in an 18 wheeler.
Be careful. you're not bulletproof
thelung
12-24-05, 10:01 AM
Well Richmond is supposed to be the 6th most dangerous city in the US but I have always felt much more safe on a bike. The people I know who have been mugged/robbed were either walking alone or in their own houses when it happened.
Roody
12-24-05, 04:33 PM
This afternoon I rode my stepson to a new job in East Lansing. i meant to leave him a blinky for his ride home but I forgot. He's 30 years old. I'm a little worried about him. You never stop being a parent. :)
budster
12-24-05, 05:58 PM
I've seen someone get mugged on a bike and it's not gentle.
How does that work? I've always felt much safer on bike than on foot, at least from street thugs. I'd like to know how to avoid being victimized. What, exactly, did you witness?
some_guy282
12-24-05, 08:38 PM
I'm curious to know as well, but would guess the biker was either clotheslined off the bike as he rode by, or was stopped at a light when somone pulled him off the bike or threatened with a weapon.
the homealien
12-24-05, 11:55 PM
A friend got shoved off her bike riding right behind me, and not even for money, just for kicks. Now that takes balls. Too bad by the time I swung back around they were running off into the crowd.
rwwff
12-25-05, 05:12 AM
Something that may work better than you'd expect... Just do it a few times, unannouced. Don't give them the advanced warning to overreact. Granted I'm within days of being 40, so my folks might have finally come to grips with the idea that I'm nuts; but for the longest time, I'd suggested to them that they were well within comfortable cycling distance, and my mom would come back, "don't you dare ride that..." Then I just did it a couple times, and now all I get is, "be careful."
The thing that cracks me up about it the most, is that they are afraid of the absolute wrong things. The scariest to them is this high speed state highway that is part of the route I take, it has huge lanes, great visibility, and monstrous shoulders. On the other hand, It never occurs to them that tree packed residentials with four way uncontrolled intersections and blind driveways might be hazardous to a cyclist..
ViciousCycle
12-25-05, 09:36 AM
Statistically, suburbs are more dangerous than cities because of the increased risk of dying in car crashes in the suburbs. In The Car and The City, a report by the Northwest Environment Watch, Alan Durning writes that "people often flee... cities for the perceived safety of the suburbs -- only to increase the risks they expose themselves to. " The studied said that the risk of injury in a car crash quadruples for suburb residents over what it is for city dwellers -- mainly because the suburbanites have to drive more and drive faster The report says that traffic crashes kill more people each year than gunshot wounds or drug abuse do.
Some people like to use the word "unsafe" as a synonym for "city" but this can often be an unfair use of the term.
gwd
12-25-05, 09:46 AM
I'm curious to know as well, but would guess the biker was either clotheslined off the bike as he rode by, or was stopped at a light when somone pulled him off the bike or threatened with a weapon.
In DC they work in teams. I've seen them come at me in two different ways:
Technique 1: A watcher stands on the sidewalk acting all casual. The jumper is hidden between two parked cars. As you are pedaling past the watcher gives a signal and the jumper comes out from behind
the car and tries to push you off the bike.
Technique 2: Two or more guys are hanging on the side of the street. If there are no other people on the street one crosses the street in front of you walking slowly like nothing is going on but pounces just before your closest point of approach.
Technique 1 is more scarey but there is no plausable denial to any witnesses in nearby houses. In Technique 2 you have some warning in that the guy crossing the street has no reason to be there. A non violent defense for both types is a quick steer behind the jumper. Its hard not to reflexively steer in the same direction as the jump but the jumper will be moving in an extrapolation of your current motion so a brake and quick steer throws him off.
some_guy282: Don't people get pushed off their bikes in the Bronx? Ask an experienced policeman about it I'm sure a cop can describe the common ways it happens in your city.
On the other hand, I also feel much safer on a bike than walking.
jim-bob
12-25-05, 09:48 AM
Biking at night is fine, if you're lit up.
Yeah, a few shots and a few beers always make the night ride go by a bit quicker.
the homealien
12-25-05, 11:58 AM
were you lit up? if not, i agree with your parents.
I'm always lit up at night (electrical not alcohol) and I ride somewhere almost every night.
Something that may work better than you'd expect... Just do it a few times, unannouced. Don't give them the advanced warning to overreact.
That's what I do, and it usually works. This time it made them even more angry that I hadn't told them. Oops...
some_guy282
12-25-05, 02:53 PM
some_guy282: Don't people get pushed off their bikes in the Bronx? Ask an experienced policeman about it I'm sure a cop can describe the common ways it happens in your city.
On the other hand, I also feel much safer on a bike than walking.
Not that I know of. I havn't heard any stories.
I also feel safer riding a bike. My girlfriend's neighborhood isn't that great, and I often stay there late. Before I started riding I had to walk from her house to the nearest train station. One night I was almost mugged. A guy standing in front of a building I passed a few moments earlier started running after me to catch up. I heard his footsteps and looked over my shoulder. The idiot stops running about 15 feet behind me to start acting casual, like I'm not going to think anything is up. This was around 1AM. It was a small one way street. I started walking in the middle of the street to stop the oncoming cars. I was hoping to get a ride from one of them, but that didn't happen. :rolleyes: The mugger stopped, and pretended he was tying his shoe laces. Oldest trick in the book. Stopping the cars served to bring attention to myself, and I was able to run after that to a street that is more busy. He turned around after that.
Now I just ride my bike and breeze past the bad sections. I feel safer when it's later because there is little or no traffic to slow me down.
Guest
12-25-05, 04:17 PM
I just had a frustrating experience that I want to share. I live about 30 miles outside of Chicago and I had planned on visiting a friend in the city tonight. I'm 20 years old, attending university and home for the holidays. I have never owned a car and probably never will, so I try to avoid using my parents' cars as much as I can. My plan was to take the train into the city and bike the rest of the way, but when my parents found that out they were very upset and insisted on driving to bring me home right away. My mother, who rides 8 miles to work most days and is vehemently anti-car and anti-sprawl, told me that what I was trying to do was childish, irresponsible and wrong. I had a long argument with her and my dad, and they insisted that biking at night is a wrong choice and that I am a disrespectful child for choosing that. My stance is that biking at night is my choice and it is very important.
What do you think, about the parent-child dynamic but also more importantly about the risks of living car-free?
What, do they think that if you had a car and a bike, you'd somehow be less likely to get hit as opposed to having only a bike and no car?
Where is it you're trying to get to anyway? Perhaps we can suggest a good alternative, bike friendly way to get there.
Koffee
Satyr
12-28-05, 09:09 AM
I just had a frustrating experience that I want to share. I live about 30 miles outside of Chicago and I had planned on visiting a friend in the city tonight. I'm 20 years old, attending university and home for the holidays. I have never owned a car and probably never will, so I try to avoid using my parents' cars as much as I can. My plan was to take the train into the city and bike the rest of the way, but when my parents found that out they were very upset and insisted on driving to bring me home right away. My mother, who rides 8 miles to work most days and is vehemently anti-car and anti-sprawl, told me that what I was trying to do was childish, irresponsible and wrong. I had a long argument with her and my dad, and they insisted that biking at night is a wrong choice and that I am a disrespectful child for choosing that. My stance is that biking at night is my choice and it is very important.
What do you think, about the parent-child dynamic but also more importantly about the risks of living car-free?
I am of the belief that the most important thing in life is to be true to the self, at least on issues of seminal importance. There is a lot to be said for respect and presentation. The best you could probably do is politely explain your views and take a firm, but understanding, stance.
Blowing off loved ones is an easy, but ill advised, thing to do. They are concerned only because they have a vested interest in you.
Perhaps try to educate them, and explain a bit about the details of night riding.
smithers
01-12-06, 04:07 PM
parents. gotta love 'em. i'm nearing 36 and my parents will still 'parent' me when they can. i guess its out of love!
pakole
01-14-06, 11:46 AM
My parents are the same way when I bike at night. I just showed them how visible and safe I am. I even had them follow me one-time to note by behavior. (I actually forgot about them until they rode up and said, "How long are you going to do this for? We get your point." As was said earlier it is easy to think I am 20 years old now and I can do whatever I want, but it adviseable to get the approval of your parents. They could have a lot of insight that your 20 years of life could have seen yet.
Oh and in case you are wondering, I am 22 and I still approve thigns with my parents. It done because I have to, but its just done out of respect for them, and they can have the peace of mind to know that I will not make any major decision without them. In fact, they do not baby me at all. They treat me as a fellow adult in the "adult club" just have a junior member access pass through. :)
Artkansas
01-14-06, 12:33 PM
How does that work?
When my bike was forcibly removed from my possession, there was one gang following me on bicycles and another gang saw them trailing me, so the 2nd gang pulled me to the curb with their '64 Impala, trapping me. I tried to run away with my bike and get back to some open street where I could escape, but outnumbered 7 to 1 I didn't manage to get away with my bike.