Bicycle Mechanics - does your LBS install for free?

do any of you all's LBS install for free parts that you buy from them?
this would seem a reasonable service to the customer in my opinion...but, maybe 's just not common practice at all, and I'm buggin'


I went into a shop a while back and bought a new tube (~$4), and asked if they could install it for me because I was wearing all white, and didn't want to get dirty (there was like 1 other person in the shop...they were NOT busy). They said that installing it would cost me $10. I said, "what?!". So, asked if I could borrow a set of tire levers, and their pump, and was outta there in 10 minutes (took me a little longer , as I was trying to maintain my freshness). Thankfully they let me use their stuff, but...was I the one bugging? I mean...I might even have paid another 2-4 dollars for them to throw it in....maybe...but no way I was paying $10 for these cats to install a TUBE for me...no way

I usually like to do everything myself, but...sometimes, for conviencience, bike shops can be of help
do yall get stuff installed for free? or do they let you use their tools to do it yourself?

I help out people as much as I can ie: tool loans, repair advice, etc. If I installed any part purchased from me for free or loaned out my more expensive to replace tools all the time I would be out of business in a heartbeat. For the record a flat fix with tube is $12 CAD. They let you use their tools....so I don't really think you have a valid complaint there.

I don't understand why they should do either. Four bucks seems a fair price for a tube (maybe a little less than the local rate). What makes you think they should sweeten the deal by tossing in free installation? Granted, ten bucks is a little steep (around here the going LBS rate is $6), but these guys are a service business, and they get to charge for their service. Hope you thanked them for the use of their tools.

Think about a car dealership. You buy a new inline fuel filter for $8.00.

Are they gonna install it for you for free? Nope.

Are they gonna let you use their tools and install it yourself, in their shop? Nope.

I agree: you came out okay in this one.

It has to be paid one way or another.

Would you prefer that the LBS sells the tube for $14 and install it for free? To me that's a way to send the customer to a large surface or mail order store! Or would you prefer that they sell the tube for $4 and charge anything from $0 to $25 for installation depending on the backlog? Nice in theory, but unless there is a posted formula to make the pricing scale clear to everyone, it's easy to make it look like discrimination. I prefer a fixed rate, with maybe a freebee here and there.

For big ticket parts that take little time to install, maybe the shop will do the insatallation for free or at very low cost. I buy my headsets at my LBS and they usually press in the cups and set the crown race for free. However, this is a $50 or more item and I bring the frame and fork already stripped. All they only have to spend is 5 minutes or so of labor and I come in when the shop isn't busy.

Also, I'm a frequent and well known customer and have purchased numerous bikes from them in the past so I've established my credentials. Would I get that service in a shop where I'm not known? I don't think so. Would I expect it? No.

They let you use their tools....so I don't really think you have a valid complaint there.

my posting of this was really to get an idea of the standard, cause really...I wouldn't know...I work on my bike myself....I've never had a shop do anything on my bike...I was curious

they let me use their tire levers...big deal...I did thank them....and every shop should have a pump to use
but...I do have a valid complain because they charged me 10 dollars to change a tube...that's insulting

and I had bought plenty of **** from that shop before, if that makes any difference...I'm coo with one of the guys who works there, and all of them at the shop there at least recognize me...

Think about a car dealership. You buy a new inline fuel filter for $8.00.

Are they gonna install it for you for free? Nope.

Are they gonna let you use their tools and install it yourself, in their shop? Nope.

I agree: you came out okay in this one.


not a good analogy for me...let's stick to bikes..lol

Some bike shops will do quick minor installs for free, on a case by case basis, depending on the relationship you have with your LBS.

I think they went beyond their obligation by loaning you levers. They made almost no profit on the tube they sold you, why should they install it for free? I'd say the extra $6 to install it was fair and far cheaper than a new shirt for you. They're in business to make money, and they have rent, utilities, salary...ect to pay before they make a dime.

Mark

For big ticket parts that take little time to install, maybe the shop will do the insatallation for free or at very low cost. . . . Also, I'm a frequent and well known customer and have purchased numerous bikes from them in the past so I've established my credentials. Would I get that service in a shop where I'm not known? I don't think so. Would I expect it? No.
These are the key factors--price of purchase, difficulty/time of installation, and amount of business you have given to the store. Also, it depends on their mood and how respectfully you treat them.

Edit: I want to add another factor--the mark up. If I pay the LBS $50 for something I can get online for $30, I expect some service for that additional $20. Generally (but not always) that service should include installation and/or adjustment.

And back to the topic of this thread, I don't think paying $4 for a tube is enough to make it fair to ask them to install it for free.

my posting of this was really to get an idea of the standard, cause really...I wouldn't know...I work on my bike myself....I've never had a shop do anything on my bike...I was curious

they let me use their tire levers...big deal...I did thank them....and every shop should have a pump to use
but...I do have a valid complain because they charged me 10 dollars to change a tube...that's insulting

and I had bought plenty of **** from that shop before, if that makes any difference...I'm coo with one of the guys who works there, and all of them at the shop there at least recognize me...
So you work on your bike but don't have something as basic as tire levers?

I understand that you were wearing clothes that you didn't want to get dirty but that's not the shop's fault. If you think installing a tube is so easy that it has no value, then it should be no big deal for you to install the tube. Why ask someone to do something for you that you are perfectly capable of doing. I don't ask people to air up my tires at the gas station because I can do it so easily. It would be insulting to go inside and ask the person at the register to come out and do it for me. I think it is fair to compare bike shops to other businesses. I don't know of any other businesses that are asked do do free labor that isn't under warranty.

Sometimes my LBS installs stuff I buy elsewhere for free. I try to agrue with them, but it does no good. Go figure....

So, shops should charge people for repairs if the customer can't do it themselves and do them for free if the customer knows how?

Our shop charges 12 bucks american for a tube and labor, most people are more than happy to pay that. The rest buy the tube and do it themselves.

This is my second post. I couldn't finish the last one because I was at work and the boss yelled at me to get back to work. As if talking on bike forums isn't part of my job! That guy has got some nerve.

Was it ever implied that installation of the tube is included with purchase of tube? If they tell you that the tube cost $4 and you agree to the price and pay for it, then the deal is done. No more obligations for you or the shop (unless the tube is defective or in wrong box). Labor has value. Labor has value just like the tube had value. The tube was just sitting around doing nothing, there was probably a bunch of other tubes sitting around doing nothing, and the tube is only $4! It's not worth much! Why didn't you expect to get the tube for free. If you don't think labor has value then why do you expect your boss to pay you for the work you do? Do you ask your riding buddies to fix your flat when you are on a ride with them? What self respecting, able bodied man asks someone else to do his work for him? I wouldn't ask my neighbor to mow my lawn for me and justify it by saying "You aren't doing anything this weekend anyway. Mowing a lawn is easy, anyone can do it. I just don't want to get dirty". That is just insulting. Why is my time more valuable than his? If installing the tube didn't have value then you wouldn't have asked them to do it. No one wants something that has no value.

And if they installed the tube for free and your tire was dried out, would you want a free tire too.

I broke a pedal (f'n speedplay) on a ride today. The pedal disintigrated but the splidle was OK so I was able to ride to the LBS. I bought a set of Keo Carbon pedals and some new tires. :D (A surprise Christmas present to myself)
They put the pedals and cleats on, and offered to put the tires on, but since I'm keeping the old ones for the trainer decided to ride home on them. I spent about $300 so I'm sure they didn't mind doing it. Plus, there were 5 guys working and only one other customer (he was buying an inner tube, and did not ask to have it installed, but since the guys there looked bored they probably would have for free)

Some bike shops will do quick minor installs for free, on a case by case basis, depending on the relationship you have with your LBS.

That is a major key also. If you know they guy's at your shop, they might help ya out. I know they dudes at my shop (some more than others) and one dude, I come in and he'll be like "Dude we just got a sick (enter bike here) go test it out." Also if you know them, a little something won't hurt :) I buy them Starbuck's since I too young to buy beer :)

not a good analogy for me...let's stick to bikes..lol


how convienient... tuck you tail between your legs and hide.

It depends on who's working at the time, and how busy they are. I keep all the tools I'll ever need in my car, anyway, so I rarely even need to borrow tools, even though they'll loan those out to me.

On the other hand, though, there's a shop in Milpitas, Sun Bikes, that I went to a few years back to replace a freewheel, because I'd just killed mine. I walk into the shop with my bike, tell them I want to replace the freewheel, and they tell me that the freewheel will cost $20 (or however much it was, I forget). Then they told me that since I had pegs on the right side of my rear axle, it would cost $10 to install it. Of course, I went outside, removed my rear wheel myself, and had them put it on for me, for $5. Very lame. A socket extension costs barely more than a dollar in the first place, and it's only one nut, and they try to charge me an extra $5 on top of the $5 that they're already charging me.

do any of you all's LBS install for free parts that you buy from them?
this would seem a reasonable service to the customer in my opinion...but, maybe 's just not common practice at all, and I'm buggin'


I went into a shop a while back and bought a new tube (~$4), and asked if they could install it for me because I was wearing all white, and didn't want to get dirty (there was like 1 other person in the shop...they were NOT busy). They said that installing it would cost me $10. I said, "what?!". So, asked if I could borrow a set of tire levers, and their pump, and was outta there in 10 minutes (took me a little longer , as I was trying to maintain my freshness). Thankfully they let me use their stuff, but...was I the one bugging? I mean...I might even have paid another 2-4 dollars for them to throw it in....maybe...but no way I was paying $10 for these cats to install a TUBE for me...no way

I usually like to do everything myself, but...sometimes, for conviencience, bike shops can be of help
do yall get stuff installed for free? or do they let you use their tools to do it yourself?


All white after Labor Day? :rolleyes:


Anyway, yes, you are bugging to use your term. The shop is in business to make money, it's not a charity. The fact that there was no one in the store was irrelevant, it is still time and labor on the part of the mechanic. $4 for a tube is a decent price at most LBS's that I have visited and $10 to install is not excessive.

In general, my LBS charges for installation of parts I buy from them. They'll sometimes do stuff for free but only because I'm a regular customer and they know me. I don't object to paying for their labor - I want them to still be in business the next time I come in.

My LBS does not charge for installation of some new part purchased from them if you are a regular customer. As an example, they don't charge for installing a new chain, (least expensive chain is $15.) But they do charge for installing a new tube. When I had a new crank installed by them under a Shimano recall, they tuned up the bike for free. So it depends how easy it is to install and the cost (mark up) of the item. I think this approach is more than fair.

I think shops make more money on labor than they do on parts due to the slim markup and competition with online vendors. If you need a shop to do the work, you should be willing to pay the shop to do it.

The two LBSs in my little town are both excellent, but they are very different about stuff like this.

The bright, state-of-the-art place charges for pretty much any labor. For example, I bought a rear derailleur there; they charged me $12 to install it. But they will adjust it for free forever (even better, they showed me how, so I can do it myself). They also have a great selection of parts and just crazy amounts of bike knowledge. A classic slightly-upscale, independent LBS. They're good folks and I like them a lot.

The old school Schwinn shop is run by one guy. His dad ran it before him. It's been in business in the same location since the 1940s. Every weekday afternoon, the place fills up with neighborhood kids because he gives them free air and adjustments. I can't recall ever being allowed to pay for labor there (I've tried), even though I haven't bought a bike from him in over ten years. He even double-checked my tune-up of my XMart Schwinn MTB (which I got as a gift). Not to be corny, but I f***in' love this guy. He's a treasure. He probably would have installed the tube for free, but he's the last of a dying breed.

I usually like to do everything myself, but...sometimes, for conviencience, bike shops can be of help
do yall get stuff installed for free? or do they let you use their tools to do it yourself?

In 30 years of cycling, I've never heard of it except at the bike coop.

Install a tube for the purchase of the tube? No
Loan out a tire lever or a screwdriver? Yes
Loan out precision tools? No except for the shock pump, I do let people use it altho I did have a guy break one.
Install a big ticket item for free? Maybe. It would require the rare circumstance where the customer was told the regular retail price set by the company that makes the item in question. Then handed the money over without a thirty minute haggle fest. That guy would get a free install and adjust forever. He would have to wait a while tho, because I would have to get my home surgery kit out and reattach my jaw after it dropped to the floor.

Install a tube for the purchase of the tube? No
Loan out a tire lever or a screwdriver? Yes
Loan out precision tools? No except for the shock pump, I do let people use it altho I did have a guy break one.
Install a big ticket item for free? Maybe. It would require the rare circumstance where the customer was told the regular retail price set by the company that makes the item in question. Then handed the money over without a thirty minute haggle fest. That guy would get a free install and adjust forever. He would have to wait a while tho, because I would have to get my home surgery kit out and reattach my jaw after it dropped to the floor.


:roflmao: :roflmao:

Margins made on bike parts are not as high as one might think specially the higher end stuff so charging for installation is necessary for most LBS’s

I always tell my guys to install free if we can but when you do a accurate costing on the prices we sell our stuff at and the time taken to make the sale it’s not that often we can install free and still have a win/win for both us an our customer.

So you work on your bike but don't have something as basic as tire levers?

when I was outside, on the road?....no I didn't...

like I said...I was dressed in fresh whites on my way to an event...I asked them to install it because of this extrenuating circumstance...I patronize the store PLENTY...and 10 extra was steep

yall need to cool out

and actually, at the time, I didn't have tire levers...I used flat head screwdrivers

I understand that you were wearing clothes that you didn't want to get dirty but that's not the shop's fault. If you think installing a tube is so easy that it has no value, then it should be no big deal for you to install the tube. Why ask someone to do something for you that you are perfectly capable of doing. I don't ask people to air up my tires at the gas station because I can do it so easily. It would be insulting to go inside and ask the person at the register to come out and do it for me. I think it is fair to compare bike shops to other businesses. I don't know of any other businesses that are asked do do free labor that isn't under warranty.

wow...
yall don't get the point...and are going out of yalls way to back up this shop, when you don't even know them or their rep...for the most part, they're salesmen, not bike people...

ANYWAYS
like I said...I asked them to do it, cause I give them my money often and I wanted them to do me a SIMPLE favor....so, they declined...big deal....but to charge me 10 dollars?...get the fuk outta here

I have a reason to complain...now YALL stop *****in'

Imma stop repeating myself tho

how convienient... tuck you tail between your legs and hide.

no...it was a joke...

I don't drive a car...get it? ... no one is hiding...

get off of it

All white after Labor Day? :rolleyes:


Anyway, yes, you are bugging to use your term. The shop is in business to make money, it's not a charity. The fact that there was no one in the store was irrelevant, it is still time and labor on the part of the mechanic. $4 for a tube is a decent price at most LBS's that I have visited and $10 to install is not excessive.


oh and yall need to stop talking about quoting the $4 price. I said, first of all, that it was ~(aka...'around') $4, cause I really didn't clock the price like that, and it was a cheap ass tube (as cheap ass tubes should be). That is besides the point anyways.

all o yall tryin' to lecture me about the cost of labor and what the objective of a business is (especially pete hamer)...get off of yourself

I would go out of my way to patronize any business that provided me additional services as opposed to one who didn't...time warner cable often has free installations...now that I think of it, I think I HAVE gotten **** installed from a bike shop for free before...

how you deal with the customer, and even how you talk to the customer goes a long way as to the customer's comfort with your business
......

for those who contributed non-snide comments, thanks for the input

Nice couple of posts there.

I imagine that this shop owner is spending his evenings biting his nails, worried that he might lose you as a customer

:rolleyes:

O.K. you're right. I went a bit overboard. I get a bit cagy from these Minnesota winters. I could have left out that whole lawn mowing thing. Anyway...

I was asking a sincere question about the "implied" free tube install with purchase. I have ran into problems before where I do some labor for free thinking it is a nice gesture but fail to explain that is is a one time thing. The next time I try to charge, the person gets a bit miffed. I can understand how it can be frustrating when the policies change. If the shop had been doing free install in the past then it sets a precedence that should be maintained. I'm still probably not getting the point yet though. Are you angry about the amount that they wanted to charge or were they disrespectful?

oh and yall need to stop talking about quoting the $4 price. I said, first of all, that it was ~(aka...'around') $4, cause I really didn't clock the price like that, and it was a cheap ass tube (as cheap ass tubes should be). That is besides the point anyways.

all o yall tryin' to lecture me about the cost of labor and what the objective of a business is (especially pete hamer)...get off of yourself

I would go out of my way to patronize any business that provided me additional services as opposed to one who didn't...time warner cable often has free installations...now that I think of it, I think I HAVE gotten **** installed from a bike shop for free before...

how you deal with the customer, and even how you talk to the customer goes a long way as to the customer's comfort with your business
......

for those who contributed non-snide comments, thanks for the input



Umm...you began this thread, not us.

$4 or "around" $4? You provided that information and now it is besides the point? :rolleyes:

Lecturing you about the cost of labor? It seems you needed that lecture or you wouldn't have asked us.

Time Warner Cable? "not a good analogy for me...let's stick to bikes..lol" Your words, not mine.

It sucks to ask for validation and to find out you are wrong, huh? ;)

Merry Christmas

:)

My guys do most installs for free if you buy it there, it is a small family shop, a father/son shop, dad started it in 1965 and his son runs it now, dad's still around every day. If you buy a bike there it is free adjustments for life.
Being a regular here gets you no favors here, new and old customers alike get the same service, good work and some good natured ribbing,I should know, I being going since 1969.

Mine does, They aren't going to build a wheel for me or get crazy like swap forks for free. But I have bought Pedals, cranks, Tires and a wireless computer (one at a time) and had them instaled for free. Though I belive they are one of the pricey LBS around here. I bought my bike from them and they threw in free adjustments for life :)

In ANY business the bottom line is the bottom line. If there is no bottom line their is no LBS. Then what? We all go to the bike fourm or Do-it-yourself.com and hope that will get us where we need to be. Having been a LBS store manager for 12 years before going inside the industry, I can tell you the LBS is welcome to his $6 or what ever to put your tube in. The guy at the Firestone store gets at least $20 when you get a flat on your car. You ever chainged a flat when someone comes in with a flat on a bike that has tires filled with Slime? The hero's of America today are those specialty business owners that operate a small business on main street or in a strip mall. Most main street LBS's are doing $250-400,000 a year in sales. They do this because: 1) Dad did it and that's what they grew up learning, 2) they want to be their own boss, 3) they love working with the product and 4) they like to work with people.
Consider all the things they and all other small business people face today:
1) increased taxes
2) higher wages
3) rising health costs
4) higher workmans comp rates
5) Higher liability rates (Thank the sue happy libs)
6) rising energy/freight prices that add $5-10 to the cost of getting bikes and parts to your door.
7) Stupid purchasing and product people within the industry that overbuy and fill their warehouses and then start dumping the inventory on March 15th. Thus forcing you to match any price within a hundred miles.

Let's face it bike stores are trying to eek by on making a 30-40% margin on a bike that if assembled correctly they are putting a minimim hour of labor into. Then you add your inventory carrying costs, promotional costs, store upkeep cost, rent. Sure there are those major market stores with an owner living in a nice house and driving the high end SUV. For every one of those in the bike store owner arena there are ten that are wondering if they need to higher someone to run there operation so they can go get a job that really brings some money in for their family. In fact many that own bike stores do just that. The first store I worked in I managed for an absentee owner who went back to law school at the age of 45.

Hat's off to the LBS owner and his staff. You made this sport what it is today! Long before the www, ebay, supergo, performance, pacific and mass market. You are the real heros! If it weren't for you we'd all still be riding the "Western Flyer" purchased at the local hardware store.

Funny how Wal-Mart and Taget sell that same tube for the same price (higher in some cases from what I've seen) as the local LBS and you don't expect them to install it for free:)

5) Higher liability rates (Than the sue happy libs)


It was a good post ... until you went political.

I could rip the rest of the post apart--from a strictly political viewpoint--and embarrass you on the forum ... but ... maybe you ought to just decide that this little jab didn't belong there, added nothing to the thread, was a bit of an ill-though, sophomoric dig, and move on, thinking better of it the next time :D

Happy Holidays!

In ANY business the bottom line is the bottom line. If there is no bottom line their is no LBS...

... You are the real heros! If it weren't for you we'd all still be riding the "Western Flyer" purchased at the local hardware store.


Did anyone else read this post and hear "Battle Hymn of the Republic" playing in the background like I did?

:D

It was a good post ... until you went political.

I could rip the rest of the post apart--from a strictly political viewpoint--and embarrass you on the forum ... but ... maybe you ought to just decide that this little jab didn't belong there, added nothing to the thread, was a bit of an ill-though, sophomoric dig, and move on, thinking better of it the next time :D

Happy Holidays!

Quite the contrary neil. Rip, tear do what ever you must to embarrass me. I've lived the law suit end of the bicycle business on more than one occassion because of stupid customers that had a lawyer in their distant family, have you? I spent way to much time bogged down with stupid people on a couple of lawsuits when I needed to be working and worrying about the bottom line. The stories don't belong on this thread. If you want to hear them PM me. I'll share them with you and you'll understand why I commented as I did. The lack of tort reform has been held off by the liberals for way too many years and if I need to research the vote totals for you I will, and them we'll see whose embarrassed. You see Neil what you and many of the people on this forum don't realize is that we the customers buying all the bikes, parts and accessories are also paying the huge liability insurance premiums of the companies that we choose to do business with. This is an industry that sees thousands of frivolous lawsuits a year. Sorry I ruffled your feathers but that is the truth.

They made almost no profit on the tube they sold you

ROFLOL...you don't work in a bike shop, do you? They make very little profit on bikes. They make up much of their profit on tubes and other small parts and accessories. Tubes wholesale for way cheap.

I'll post more on the subject in another post soon.

last I checked tubes are marked up anywhere fom 400% to 1000%

In ANY business the bottom line is the bottom line.

Back in the day we charged $5 for a tube, and $5 to put it on most bikes. That was 15+ years ago. A lot of people who don't run a business don't seem to understand why things cost what they do. Does it cost, in mechanic's time, $10 to put in a tube? No, of course not. Just like the coke you buy at a restaurant doesn't cost $1.50 to get served to you...more like 25 cents. We all pay what we do to keep their lights on, to keep their mechanics employed, to pay for the stuff that was ordered a while back, and make sure they can keep ordering stuff. If a shop buys a $50 wholesale item, and puts it on the shelf, what does that mean? It means they are out $50 until such time as it sells. Being out that money for a time costs money. Even being out a buck or two on each tube costs them money. And look at all those bikes they have for sale...they can hold off paying for them for a while, but pretty soon the distributor wants their money. What if they haven't sold most of the bikes? Chances are they have only sold a few of them, but they still have to pay for all of them. Okay, this has been well covered by others by now, so I'll stop ranting...almost!


5) Higher liability rates (Thank the sue happy libs)

Careful there. I come from a long line of "libs" who have supported tort reform as far back as one could do so. I also know a few self proclaimed Rush Limbaugh listening neo-cons today who have sued folks several times in what the rest of us considered frivilous lawsuits. In fact the shops I worked in regularly got sued by rather conservative folks more than by the "libs". Careful where you swing that broad brush!

Base hourly labor charge: $35 (keep in mind the mechanic is only making $5.50/hr - $20/hr)

The easiest loose bead tire: 5 minutes = $2.92
The most difficult tight bead (Conti) tire: 20 minutes = $10.67

It's hard for a bike shop to decide how much they are going to charge for a tire install. There is such a broad range of tires that they have to pick a base tire charge usually somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. Again, the bottom line is profit margin. It's up to the customer to decide if $4, $5, $6.... $10 is a good value in place of his/her own time. If not, then they have chosen to do the labor themselves.

Quite the contrary neil. Rip, tear do what ever you must to embarrass me.

Nope. No, I won't and I think you're missing my point.

This website--at least the Bicycle Mechanics forum--has been blissfully free of the usual bull that revolves around politics (or religion, or race, or ....).

Let's keep it that way, huh? If not, there's a forum on BF.net called "Foo." Political rants (sweeping generalizations/epithets) are more welcome there....

Happy Holidays!

Neil

He probably would have installed the tube for free, but he's the last of a dying breed.

And if he owns the building the store is in, then his overhead is likely less than half what my LBS' is, especially here in the SF Bay Area.

Honestly, if I ever got back into the biz, it'd be after winning the lotto so that I could buy a location outright, and be able to give away service like that guy.