Classic & Vintage - Persons Saddles and Campy GS Hubs

I was searching for a good price on a Brooks saddle when I stumbled onto this web site:

www.permaco.com

The Persons saddles appear to be Brooks copies. They even make the green with copper rails I was looking for. Does anybody know anything about these? I think I'd rather spend a few dollars more and get a real Brooks, but I'm curious.

I think Wallingford Bikes is the best deal because you have up to six months to send it back. Besides, it's a chance to help out Hurricane katrina victims. They're in New Orleans.

My other question is about Campy Gran Sport Hubs. Are they bottom of the barrel junk or just not quite as good as Nuovo Record?

gransport's are good hubs. The finish wasn't up to the top o' the line. The bearing races weren't polished as thoroughly (although the parts are completely interchangeable, so you are kind of led to conclude that they probably started from the same bin. They'll run in just like records. The collector value isn't as good, though.

I've bought Brooks saddles from permaco. The persons saddles appear to be new. Did you notice the =blue= leather versions? I might need one of those.

halfspeed

I just took another look at the site. It must be their own line of saddles. PERMACO stands for Persons-Majestic Company. I'd take a chance on one, but I don't see any mention of a no hassle return policy. I need a green one for a BRG Trek 930. A blue one might be nice on my cobalt Bridgestone.
I'm almost certain that the photo of the #77 DELUXE is actually a Brooks Champion Special. They have the Brooks Colt in stock. They're not easy to find. I have one. I liked it until I sat on it.

luker

I think that the GS is just what I need. I just want a good vintage hub at a decent price. The fact that collectors aren't interested keeps the price down.

thanks for the link that 77 deluxe looks nice and not to bad of a price. how much is the brooks champion i cant recall?

I just found something that says that Persons-Majestic was the American distributor for Brooks. Now I'm really confused! I also read that the Persons saddle is adjusted with an allen key and that they are shorter than a Brooks.

Sheldon Brown mentioned going to the Persons booth at Interbike 2002 to see the new green Brooks. Bikemania.biz also sells Persons saddles. They're mentioned on the Dahon forum. That's all I've been able to find out.

Italianbiker

$85 at wallbike.com.

I ordered a green Persons #77. I'll post some pictures when it arrives.

I ordered a green Persons #77. I'll post some pictures when it arrives.

I ordered a blue one. I'll do the same.

The smaller flange Record hubs are generally pretty reasonable on Ebay, so spend a few more dollars and get the nicer Record quck releases and the status (?) of having the little steel oil hole covers!

Small flange hubs just don't have the vintage look I'm going for.

My blue Persons #77 saddle just came in. I'll post photos later. Initial notes:
* Very similar in size and shape to a B17
* Made in India
* Copper rails
* Rivets are larger than the B17 while not as big as the Team Pro
* Finish isn't as nicely executed as on a Brooks. There's a small bit of blotchiness to the dye, but it'll probably go away with some riding time.
* Bag loops!

Mine didn't come. Maybe it takes an extra day to get to the west coast. If they didn't ship it, I won't get it until the end of January because they're taking three weeks off. That would be just my luck!

I'm anxious to see what your blue one looks like. Get those pictures up!

Mine didn't come. Maybe it takes an extra day to get to the west coast. If they didn't ship it, I won't get it until the end of January because they're taking three weeks off. That would be just my luck!

I'm anxious to see what your blue one looks like. Get those pictures up!

OK!

The flash photos make it look a little lighter and highlight the splotches which look almost like fingerprints. Much less noticeable in person.

The other saddle in the pictures is a saggy maroon B17 just for comparison. Oh, and yes that is a lot of threads turned on the B17's adjustment bolt.

My blue Persons #77 saddle just came in. I'll post photos later. Initial notes:
* Very similar in size and shape to a B17
* Made in India
* Copper rails
* Rivets are larger than the B17 while not as big as the Team Pro
* Finish isn't as nicely executed as on a Brooks. There's a small bit of blotchiness to the dye, but it'll probably go away with some riding time.
* Bag loops!
I was going to say, the #77 looks more similar in size to the B17 than to the champion. Hope the dye doesn't come off on your butt when you ride, like the dye on my old leather Peugeot saddle used to. ;)

OK!

The flash photos make it look a little lighter and highlight the splotches which look almost like fingerprints....
The "splotches" look pretty cool. How's the leather thickness and quality compared to the B17? Seem like a decent value for the $$?

The "splotches" look pretty cool. How's the leather thickness and quality compared to the B17? Seem like a decent value for the $$?

The leather seems to be about the same thickness as the B17. I won't really know how good it is until I've ridden it for a while. With the copper rails, the larger rivets and the skivved sides, it looks to be designed as a cheaper alternative to the B17 champion special.

I'd take the saggy maroon B17...

They say these are a re-release of saddles they sold in the past, but I've never seen one. Here's some info about them:

http://tinyurl.com/byxad

the leather is tightened with a 5mm allen key instead of a special wrench. They call it a "technically improved traditional saddle".

I'm not quite convinced that it's not an Indian knock off of a Brooks Champion Special.

Haha looks like ur out for a blue butt...

My green saddle arrived today. The box seemed too heavy. They sent me a green one and a black one with a note saying that all of the good green ones are gone, so they're sending the black one gratis. The black one is very nice. The dye job on the green one is a little streaky, but not too bad. It's good enough for the $25 Trek 930 I bought it for.

They're not up to Brooks standards, but at two for $58 I'm happy. I'll probably sell the black one.

My green saddle arrived today. The box seemed too heavy. They sent me a green one and a black one

You lucky dog!

-Kurt

So this thread is ancient, but I want to know now that you've had this thing (Persons #77 saddle) for a couple of years, Dirtdrop, how did it turn out? Good, bad?

Cheers,
Karl

I sold both of the saddles for more than I paid for them. They were comfortable but crudely made. The rivets looked like they were hammered by a blind man. You could see where he missed and bashed the leather. India is not known for fine leather goods. You can get a Brooks B17 for a few dollars more and it's worth it, IMHO.

And Velo Orange is now offering a line of leather saddles at prices below Brooks:

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2008/07/darn-nice-saddles.html

Neal

And Velo Orange is now offering a line of leather saddles at prices below Brooks:

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2008/07/darn-nice-saddles.html

Neal

Thanks Neal. Yes, I have been following his saddles and saw his post this week. The only one that appeals to me is the VO racing saddle, though, and it's $125. It's a great deal for what it is, but it's more than I want to spend right now. The aesthetic of the others doesn't hit my sweet spot, but I'm certain that like everything else they have, the quality is going to be outstanding. I wish I could see the saddles in person to see if it's just the photograph angle that I don't like, or if it's really the shape.

The Persons saddles, on the other hand look very much like my old Wrights W3N that is worn out at this point. But at only $10 less than a Brooks I'm not sure I'm willing to try it out. Especially since Dirtdrop says he wasn't happy.

Karl

Karl, the first prototype photos of the saddle that Chris K. showed did nothing for me--they looked blocky and ugly. But these latest photos look much better to me though I wish he had shown them from more angles and also on a bike for some perspective (and next to a Brooks, perhaps). I'm set for saddles for the time being, so I'll need to wait until my next Brooks failure before I consider buying one. On the other hand, I did pick up a brand new honey Pro with large copper rivets from a CL seller for $60, so the deals can be had.

Neal

I just wish that Brooks would produce a Champion Special with chrome rails. I don't like copper rails on my vintage bikes. It just looks wrong to me. I prefer the B17 shape, but I had to put a Pro on my PX10 because it was the only thing I could get with chrome rails. The only way to get a B17 with large rivets and no copper rails is to buy the titanium model and there's no way I'm going to pay that kind of money for a bicycle seat!

I ordered a green Persons saddle and it arrived with a note appoligizing for the streaky dye job and a free black saddle. I "aged" the green one with lacquer thinner and had no trouble selling it at a swap. I put the black one on eBay. I ended up making a modest profit.

This is how it looked after I aged it:

http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/41411/2880983620068014369S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2880983620068014369oOLccb)

In other news (and I know this was years ago), but all the comments above only apply to Nuovo Gran Sport hubs. Those were the mid range ones. True Gran Sport hubs were the top of the line, before Record was ever introduced, but you'd be unlikely to find them.