Folding Bikes - Which folding bike for loaded touring?

I am finally going to take the plunge and get a folding bike for touring. I am 6'05" 225 and by default it looks like it probably will be a Bike Friday NWT. The Dahon Speed TR looks like a good value but max load was 235lbs. I would still like to hear from people who have used this bike for loaded touring. I travel fairly light so maybe it still might work although I would be pushing it. The simpler the better so I don't want suspension. Any other recommendations?

If you by a Bike Friday you need to watch the weight limits too. Might need one made for a greater load. I can tell you that on my Dahon SpeedPro I often had about 240-250lbs on it while touring without ill effects. I just kept an eye on the spoke tension. My main complaint was how low the derailleur was as I caught a lot of grass and weeds in it if I was on unpaved bike paths.

Depending on your usage this might not be an issue. In general there is a decent safety margin and I have seen some pretty big riders on folders that didn't crumple under the load. Of course the manufacturers won't suggest going over their load limits but there is some cushion there unless you go with an ultralightweight bike. Then they tend to be a lot more fragile.

If you by a Bike Friday you need to watch the weight limits too. Might need one made for a greater load.

For a NWT, I doubt the weight limit will be an issue... I can't recall the actual figure at the moment, tho. I do remember, however, that they stated a limit of 250 pounds (rider plus gear) for the Pocket Crusoe (PC), which is the light-touring counterpart. That's the main reason I opted for a NWT instead of the PC.

In any event, it wouldn't hurt to verify the weight limit when discussing configuration details with the Bike Friday folks. They're a pretty good bunch to work with, in my experience. :)

Thanks for the responses. Wavshrdr, if you think the Speed TR will work, I might go w/ that simply because it's about half the price. Most things, bikes included, are usually spec'd conversatively. Even if I have to build a strong rear wheel, I would still be way ahead.

The NWT should be plenty strong enough; it was designed for loaded touring. Another option would be the PBW, which is also custom in the same price range.

Thanks for the responses. Wavshrdr, if you think the Speed TR will work, I might go w/ that simply because it's about half the price. Most things, bikes included, are usually spec'd conversatively. Even if I have to build a strong rear wheel, I would still be way ahead.

Speed TR will easily handle the load. It is definitely a comfy bike too with the Thudbuster seat post. The Big Apple tires are pretty fast and have excellent ride qualities. The TR has a great frame and excellent brakes. I personally was sorry I didn't buy the TR instead of the SpeedPro which I ended up selling. The TR is an excellent bike for the money!

I personally think the Bike Friday is a better bike but it costs a lot more money too. Is it proportionately better, that is up to you to decide. I did like how quickly the Dahon folds up. Most BF's are great portable bikes but not so great at folding. Not that they can't do it but just it doesn't seem to be their forte. You can get them customized about however you want though. Make sure you check the weight capacity of the model you specifically want. For example I was looking at a used 2005 NWT and it lists the max weight of 220lbs on their website which was less than the Dahon.

I personally love the BF that I have and I am looking to buy another one. However I have been very happy with my Dahons in general too. Price wise the Dahons win easily and they are a great value. BF is definitely in the top tier but you pay for it too. Prices are supposedly going up this year as well. So if you go the BF route get your order in soon. I really liked the DD shifting setup on my SpeedPro which you can get on the BF or Speed TR.

The Speed TR is an excellent choice. I'd like to know who and how load capacity of a given bicycle is determined by the manufacturer.

The Speed TR is very low geared and that surprised me considering it uses the dual drive. I'm also glad Dahon when to the larger Big Apple tires and upgraded the main hinge. Overall, a very good bike but I still wish the bike came with a tripple.

My wife and I did a loaded tour last September. She was on a Dahon and I was on my bike friday. She was under 200 lbs (rider plus gear) and I was about 220 (rider plus gear) along with 75 lbs on a trailer. I didn't feel too comfortable on the dahon with my full load of bags and trailer due to some flex I felt at low speeds. The nwt was as solid as my old Cannondale t700 tourer. The dahon would probably be OK for your purposes, but the NWT will be stiffer.
as another poster mentioned, the gearing on the Dahon is awesome - just as on the BF. Good luck

Thanks for the responses everyone. Mr. Super Socks, curious if you tried your loaded Dahon w/out the trailer? I have toured a lot on a trailer and noticed that it does cause some instablity as compared to just having panniers which, in my opinion, increase stability. Also, did you use the stock Dahon wheels and what was your rack set up. I am also trying to find out if the Dahon's will accept standard racks or do you have to use their brand?

Thanks for the responses everyone. Mr. Super Socks, curious if you tried your loaded Dahon w/out the trailer? I have toured a lot on a trailer and noticed that it does cause some instablity as compared to just having panniers which, in my opinion, increase stability. Also, did you use the stock Dahon wheels and what was your rack set up. I am also trying to find out if the Dahon's will accept standard racks or do you have to use their brand?

My wife's dahon is actually a Dahon Speed 8 which has the same basic frame and components, EXCEPT for the rear SRAM 3x9. I had the guy at Gaerlan.com build a 36-spoke rear 3x9 wheel and fitted a SRAM x-9 rear derailleur. So it is basically a Speed TR with a better derailleur at this point. The bike is really great in just about every way and my wife says it's the most comfortable she's ever ridden. Wheels are very solid, braking and shifting great and the gearing is phenomenal.

My wife rode the Dahon loaded with two bags (about 35-40lbs worth) on a standard rear rack - it's a blackburn with extra-long stays to reach from the rack down to the attachment point on the rear triangle. The bike held those very nicely. I fitted it with a modified front rack from Bike Friday and loaded it as well, (I posted info in a previous thread on this forum). But with both front and rear, the bike felt uncomfortably flexy for me. The trailer just emphasized the flex on downhills when I really didn't want any squirelly handling at all.

Also, my wife's heels cleared the panniers (two large Vaude bags), but just barely. Pay very close attention to heel clearance, especially if you have large feet; the chainstays on the Dahon and BF are shorter than a normal touring bike. Do a search on the touring or folding forum for extra long racks with a nice setback if this is likely to be a problem.

As you mention, properly placed panniers typically increase stability, while trailers tend to do the opposite, but due to the anomalies of the frame sizing, geometry and flex on the Dahon, I think a trailer would be pretty sensible. If I were to do a long, heavily loaded tour with the dahon, I think I would take the bags off the bike and use a trailer -- I would seriously consider a suitcase trailer from bike friday which is 100% compatible with the dahon (just buy a hitch attachment) which has the advantage of being the case you pack it in as well! Check previous threads on packing the Dahon Speed TR in a standard oyster case - there's also info on the Gaerlan.com website - it works great.

Oh - and you mention you are 6'5". I would HIGHLY recommend you sit on a dahon before you buy. I am 6'0" and I think I am near the max end of fit for the Dahon. A BF can be made to fit you perfectly, but you pay a premium.

My opinion -

Thanks again for the feedback. Not that it was your intent to talk me out of the Dahon but I will probably spend the difference and go w/ the Bike Friday. It sounds like a better bet since it is custom and has a fit guarantee.

Thanks again for the feedback. Not that it was your intent to talk me out of the Dahon but I will probably spend the difference and go w/ the Bike Friday. It sounds like a better bet since it is custom and has a fit guarantee.

You won't be disapointed... the NWT is a sweet bike!

Thanks again for the feedback. Not that it was your intent to talk me out of the Dahon but I will probably spend the difference and go w/ the Bike Friday. It sounds like a better bet since it is custom and has a fit guarantee.

The beauty of most of these bikes is they fit a wide range of riders. I personally think you would find the Dahon more than strong enough. When I first started riding my SpeedPro (with fragile wheels compared to the TR) I weighed abou 270 and I NEVER had a problem with flex of the frame. If I didn't bend it then maybe only Shaq could! The only flex I ever noticed in the bike is when the spokes were loose. The frame was rock solid for me and I can guarantee I put more stress on it than you ever would unless you ran it over with a car or truck.

I personally love Bike Fridays but at the lower end of their price range I think a Dahon is a better value IF they have something close to what you want. Like all things it is a point of diminshing returns and if cost is no object then BF is probably the way to go as you can most likely get almost exactly what you want. However that brings up another issue. Keep in mind that you will NOT get a Bike Friday immediately because of the customized aspect. It could take you a month or more to get one depending on the model you want. So if you want one soon you better get it ordered now. Keep in mind that if you ever sell it, it could be harder to sell a very specialized bike than something more generic. On the flip side if there is someone physically similar to you with the same taste in equipment you might get more money for it. So far I haven't been that luck. On my more customized vehicles I have always lost more $$$ as a percentage of purchase price. For me sometimes the satisfaction of ownership has been increased and others it was a major losing proposition. Caveat emptor!

Obviously how you attach a load to a bike can make for issues regardless of how well it is made. Weight and balance is critical on almost any vehicle and the greater the load relative to you and your bike's weight together the greater effect it will have on you. By a good rack for either one of them and you'll be much happier. Too often people spend major money on a bike and then cheap out on the accessories. Ever have a $20 accessory ruin or majorly damage an expensive bike? Hopefully you never will.

May I add a short opinion on this subject? I think that Dahon is a great folding bike for metro use, and has an exceptional value/$. However, Bike Friday will be a better investment for touring, provided you don't skimp on your investment to bring the cost on par with Dahon. On the other hand, don't plan on modifying Dahon to make it tour worthy. BUT, that doesn't mean that you can't tour with a Dahon.

I am not in a huge hurry and my next tour isn't until July so still processing. Now also considering a bike w/ couplings. I just learned from Dahon that they are going w/ a Klick Fix attachment for the front panniers for the 2006 Speed TR. I am interested to see how this looks. I still haven't ruled them out. I don't know about the rest of you but if Dahon was serious about touring, and maybe they are, they should have a picture of a TR loaded w/ bags. That would definitely boost my confidence.

... they should have a picture of a TR loaded w/ bags.

Like this, the new tour rack system with Rixen Kaul bags to make it even tastier?

http://www.thesmitheory.com/img/speedtr_withracks_lo.JPG

OR?

http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/products/main/DHKC044.jpg

man that bike looks nice... :D

Indeed it does and that does boost my confidence. Is that your bike or did you obtain a Dahon photo somehow? It also looks like it has V-brakes so is this an older model or are they going to v-brakes for 06 or am I not seeing things correctly?

yep V brakes for 06

i think its from that pdf that went round earlier on this and the dahon forums??

yep V brakes for 06

i think its from that pdf that went round earlier on this and the dahon forums??

does anyone know where I can get a copy of that .pdf?
I'd really dig on seeing the rest of the line.
;)

With all due respect to the Dahon, which I'm sure is a fine bike, I'd go with the Bike Friday. For real touring, where you're going to spend a lot of time in the saddle, I think the custom fit is worth it, unless you happen to be just the right size for the Dahon. The handlebars on the Speed TR seem to have a rather limited height range, and someone with a long reach might end up feeling a bit cramped. The Thudbuster may be great, but I've done fine with sprung Brooks saddles, and hydraulic brakes seem like a needless maintenance complication to me. Also, you may not end up spending all that much more for the Friday. Granted, for a BF with a Dual Drive, Thudbuster suspension post, and hydraulic brakes, you'll pay a lot more than for the Dahon. But you can get a Triple chain ring NWT with an ample gearing range in the $1000 range, like this one (http://www.bikefriday.com/bikespecs99.cfm?BF=5&Gp=1008). (I know, that's without saddle or pedals, but I'd be changing those out on the Dahon, too) Some early info linked from the Dahon Forum makes it seem like the 2006 Speed TR will be about $900.00, see this. (http://www.thorusa.com/Dahon2006.htm)

does anyone know where I can get a copy of that .pdf?
I'd really dig on seeing the rest of the line.
;)

There are links to both parts of the catalog at this site. (http://www.thorusa.com/bikes1.htm)

and even better straight from the horses mouth @ http://www.dahon.com/dahonbrochure2006.pdf

and the 06 speed TR doesnt have hydro brakes either

yeah it looks like the took off the hydro brakes and put V-Brakes back on.... seems like they listen to what the public wants, needs about such things.

BTW I found another picture of the front & rear tour racks here:

http://www.thesmitheory.com/img/back_tour_rack_lo2.jpg & http://www.thesmitheory.com/img/front_tour_rack_lo2.jpg

That is one of the nicest Dahons IMO. But why is the hind rack so high?

Also, why not a Bike Friday Pocket Llama.

If it is good enough for the most Travelled man/the craziest tourer out there it is good enough for anyone. In fact i think if i were to get a bike dedicated to nothing but touring i'd get almost the exact same bike as Heinz Stucke.

Check the story and specs here:

http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=320&Category=News

Moulton claims to be the best bike for touring. They don't fold but they are separable.

To see their pitch and to see a loaded touring Moulton go to: http://www.alexmoulton.co.uk/mainindex.html , then download the AM booklet.

Thanks for the links and photos. I appreciate you taking the time to post this info. After reading the new catalog opening letter by the owner, Dahon sure sounds like a great company with a vision and is committed to EVERYONE's future. I have heard they don't have a lot of mark up and their main goal is to get people on bikes whether it be theirs or a competitors. That in itself motivates me to be one of their customers. Just totalling up some of the components on the TR makes me wonder how they make a profit at all. I know, made in Taiwan but even then, they can't be making much. They are also great at responding to emails quickly and thoroughly and considering how large of a company they are, I am sure they receive a lot. They have made some nice changes for 06 including great accessories that make the TR look like a bike truly designed for loaded touring. I am going to continue to explore the possibilty of getting the TR to work for me. I would be saving about $800 w/ the TR compared to the BF. I won't deny a custom fit would be better and the BF is a step above, but money for me is an object and a $800 can buy a plane ticket someplace. Also, it appears the Dahon can be folded with the racks and fenders still on the bike whereas you can't do this w/ the BF. Could someone comfirm this?

On a side note, the Carry Freedom trailer in the new Dahon site looks impressive. I have a lot of miles on a BOB and love them but they don't break down and travel on a plane very well. W/out starting a new thread has anyone had any experience w/ a Carry Freedom Trailer?

I have no experience with that trailer, but i do have some experience with both Burley and Bob trailers. I wrote an extensive review and comparison of both here, you might want to search for that one. One of the reasons why i think the Burley blows the Bob away is that it does fold very well and small...

As for the Dahon vs. BF, i have to agree that for 800 Dollars difference i think the Dahon would also make a great choice. It folds better than the BF and for the money saved you can do a heck of a lot of upgrades. Having said that you could also save an additional 400 dollars and upgrade the heck out of a Downtube.

The Heinz Stucke anology works both ways, yes he has a Bike Friday now and i think it will work out very good for him,.. so far he is very happy, but before he had it, he travelled the world, literally, for 40 years on an extremely heavy and 'outdated' 3 speed Roadster style bike. I really don't think you can go wrong with either the Dahon or the BF, and possibly even the Downtube. I think for a tour the bike and frame are very important but a good fit, suitable tires, good bags, a kick ass rack, a handlebar you love, lots of water in water bottles, a Brooks Saddle (yes i am biased ha ha) in other words accesoiries, little upgrades and details can be even more crucial.

Also, it appears the Dahon can be folded with the racks and fenders still on the bike whereas you can't do this w/ the BF. Could someone comfirm this?
BF's can fold with fenders and rear rack - the Dahon designs are just modified copies of Bike Friday's.

If you're going with the TR, you better carry spare spokes. Dahons and Bromptons have custom sized front and rear hubs, whereas BF's are all standard sizes. Thus you're not going to be able to get wheel/wheelsets built for them easily, especially for the front hub.

In my experience, folding the Bike Friday with fenders attached is no problem. Having the rack on it makes it a little more awkward, but not too difficult, but you may have to take the bags off the rack, which can be inconvenient.

Folding a Dahon with a rack depends on which rack. The smaller racks won't prevent folding by themselves, but again, any bags you have on the rack could get in the way. My Dahon experience is with those racks. There is also a touring rack (http://dahon.com/b-tourrack.htm) that supposedly will carry a heavier load. It can be used without the side struts, and then it's a QR attachment which you can remove in seconds. However, if you attach the side struts to support heavier loads, then I believe it's not possible to lower the seat for a complete fold.

If you're squeezing either bike into a suitcase for airline travel, you might have to remove rack and fenders, at least if you're not going to use a really oversized suitcase like the Dahon Airporter. BF has a folding rack, now; I have the older, non folding version.

Yeah that is one thing i never understood, why does BF not simply add a hinge to the middle of their frames like Dahon and almost every other folder. Or at least offer a model or the option.. With a really good one like the Halfway's or Dahon's it would seem performance or Frame stiffness would not suffer in any significant way. Lacking a hinge is pretty much the only thing that makes BF pretty unsuitable for Multi mode commuting/quick folding... Strange.

the Dahon designs are just modified copies of Bike Friday's.

Really? Is this a fact? I though Dahon had been around a fair bit longer than BF? ie 1982 V 1991? The BF design looks like they took it from Dahon rather than the other way round as you suggest.

Really? Is this a fact? I though Dahon had been around a fair bit longer than BF? ie 1982 V 1991? The BF design looks like they took it from Dahon rather than the other way round as you suggest.
Really? Is this a fact? Show me the fenders and rear racks of a 1982 Dahon? Show me the suitcase and travel options from 1982 as well? Show me a 1982 Dahon and a 1991 Bike Friday? That similar, huh?

But should you decide to read things in context, I was referring to the fenders and rear racks as modified copies. To me, "modified copies" does not necessarily mean bad; rather that a good solution was invented, and someone (or an organization) modified it to either make it better or suit it to his/her/its/their own needs.

settle down. do you need emoticons in every second word? i wasnt knarky i was asking a question

is this better?

Really? Is this a fact?:eek: I though Dahon had been around a fair bit longer than BF? ie 1982 V 1991? {insert scratch head emoticon**The BF design looks like they took it from Dahon rather than the other way round as you suggest. {another scratch head emoticon**

:D :D :D :D

settle down.
:rolleyes:



do you need emoticons in every second word?
:p

Have you seen the new Dahon racks now available for viewing at their site? They state they were designed not to interfere with folding. They look nice but I wonder if they will interfere w/ bag options considering how low they are. I doubt my current panniers would work and probably would place them too close to the ground.

Regarding the bike folding issue, I thought one subscriber, in another thread, clarified it nicely. Bike Friday's are not so much for the urban commuter who wants to be able to take their bike on a bus etc... They are more intended for someone who needs to break their bike down and take it on a plane-"Performance that Packs." Dahons and others excel at folding in seconds and taking on a bus.

I only want a folder for travel I am not too worried about having to take the bags off to fold. But if one bike allowed packing in a suitcase w/out fender removal, that would be great but not necessary.

What are peoples impresssions of the DD hub. Since I like to get fairly remote when I tour, the simpler the better. Are these things dependable??

I have the DD hub on 3 of my bikes. It gives you BOTH the advantages AND disadvantages of both the derailleur AND hub. You get the inefficiency of the hub coupled with the grease and grime from the derailleur. What more could you ask for? You have all bases covered. I am strongly considering the Rohloff though on my next bike.

As for reliability I've had no issues at all with the DD hubs. One of my bikes dates back to one of the first variations; the Sachs 3X7. Still trouble free other than getting that goofly little chain setup for the internal hub. It seemed to be a little more finicky than the clik-box that comes on the newer ones. Although once I figured it out, it works quite nicely.

Thank again for the responses. Just to confuse things, I saw that someone recommended a Gaerlan. I like the traditional bike look to it and that it also uses a front derailleur. I couldn't find a lot of feedback for them however.

I am getting excited about getting one and not having to drag a full size bike box through an airport again.

The Gaerlan seems like a real solid bike for touring. But i do feel that the price and value it offers coupled with the almost non existent folding (compared to all the nice stuff out there) makes it pretty much a no go. If folding is not so important for you Bike Fridays still folds a lots better and can have front derailleurs as well. They also seem just as solid if less traditional in their geometry, i think they may be lighter as well. The Gaerlan seems to lack the refinement and continues improvement of BF's and for the 1345 dollars the Gaerlan runs for you can really get a whole lot of BF including a 27 Speed Sub 24 LBS NWT.

But just to clarify, i have no first hand experience with the Gaerlan.

How about a PBW?

http://www.pbwbikes.com/product_info.php/cPath/3/products_id/32

For $1,740.00 (or is that too much?) you get a bike with good folding, some suspension, a really nice frame and 21 Speeds. I think the Frame looks even more solid than the BF.

How about - 'Any bike' approach ?!!
Check the story of Colin Martin - His bike weighed 63 lbs (!!!!!) and used a very simple drivetrain but still did the job of travelling from UK to Australia

Colin Martin Story (http://www.greenbicycle.com/moulton-marathon.htm#moultonMarathon)

V1nce, I have seen references to PBW but until now didn't where to find them or at least didn't try so thanks. It does look like a really nice frame. The only thing that I am leary about is rear suspension since it's just one more thing that can go wrong. On the other hand, other subscribers have stated that a 20" bike isn't comfortable w/out suspension so I will try and keep an open mind. I agree the Gaerlan doesn't look as refined. I guess the double triangles are appealing since that's what we all grew up with.

Guy Yinon, when you say the "Any Bike" approach, I believe you are saying just do it. I agree w/ that philosophy and have found other tourists on bikes from Kmart going the distance. I road around Australia, 11,000 miles, on a 90s mountain bike and it did great. Even though Colin Martin's bike was simple and heavy, sounded like he had some $, put a lot of thought and planning into and got what he wanted-a custom bike. Far from using just any bike, but I do understand your point.

I plan on doing a 3-4 week trip every year and want to get it right this time. I have the time and money and enjoying the process including hearing from everyone more knowledgable on the subject than I am so keep the advice coming.

How about - 'Any bike' approach ?!!
Check the story of Colin Martin - His bike weighed 63 lbs (!!!!!) and used a very simple drivetrain but still did the job of travelling from UK to Australia

Colin Martin Story (http://www.greenbicycle.com/moulton-marathon.htm#moultonMarathon)

Thanks for the link, interesting. On closer reading, though, his bike did not weigh 63 lbs. That was the total weight of his bike and all the "kit" that he packed on the airplane. That's not an unusually high load for a touring cyclist. The bike did have an interesting simplified gearing scheme, but it was still a custom built Moulton, and those aren't cheap.

Just a note about the Dahons in general. I travel to Russia a lot and I biked in Siberia quite often with my Dahon. Before you think I am bonkers you really should try it. What I have learned is that there are no bike shops in the remote areas of Russia so reliability was very important to me. The roads (when they exist) are usually awful so suspension became more important than it would have in the US or Europe although Europe in some places with cobblestone streets isn't a joy either. I found I really wanted some sort of simple suspension design.

I ended up with a Dahon Gotham City which is fully suspended front and rear. One of the reasons I choose it was the rear suspension design was quite simple. So even though the Gotham was out of production a while a go I found one. What appealed to me was that it had an elastomer for the rear shock and traditional motorcycle style forks. I found that in a pinch if the elastomer broke (which it hasn't to date) I could actually replace it with a piece of car tire casing cut to the appropriate size to get by.

The little 20" wheels have been so far impervious to major breakage and I just keep an eye on spoke tension. My Schwalbe Big Apples have done well in all conditions except pretty deep mud which they weren't meant for anyway.

The final thing that really improved my ride comfort was a Thudbuster seat post. I took it and a few extra elastomers to dial in the ride quality. If you haven't used one of these you don't know what you are missing. If you ride on great roads all the time you won't really appreciate it as much. It does a better job of soaking up the big hits on the rear than I would have ever imagined. I probably would have been fine with no rear suspension on the bike and just the Thudbuster and the Big Apples as they absorb quite a bit of shock too without being draggy. However the entire package is what I would call downright plush without being inefficient.

Obviously there are so many ways you can approach this. Even though my Gotham City was more of city commuter it has turned out to be a great touring bike for me. I probably ride it about 80% of the time even when home and it is 100% my travel bike. That will probably change when my Swift arrives as I took the lessons I learned from all my other folders and applied it to the Swift. For a lot of the traveling I do the rear derailleur has become a big liability for me so I went with an internal hub. So I am trading off a bit of efficiency for real-world practicality. I had heavy duty rims laced up and a lot of custom bits to get it to where it will be a better platform for how and where I ride.

I have had great service from my Dahons. I would have no qualms buying one again and probably will this year buy another. The Swift turned out to be a great choice as you can have it custom made ala Bike Friday. Another big plus for me is the Swift is powder coated and that finish is much more durable than paint and the bike is pretty light from the start. I loved how the frame felt when I rode it too. I am a big buy and I didn’t feel any flex. It just felt so efficient riding it that my only concern was ride quality and that was quite good but I will add a Thudbuster to it as well if it I need more plushness.

Problem with finding a good folder for touring is that there are sometimes too many choices.

Wavshrdr, Thanks for the feedback on Dahon. That's exactly what I wanted to hear is that someone used their Dahon in a remote rugged area. And no I don't think you are crazy. Russia and Eastern Europe are on my short list. Also nice to hear about the Thudbuster. I wondered if it had too much travel and therefore would compromise power. I know I have stated it before but Dahon sure offers a lot for the money. Sounds crazy but almost wished they would charge more so I wouldn't be so suspect.

You mentioned going w/ an internal hub alone. I am not sure how that works since the TR has both an internal hub and rear derailleur. If you only had an internal hub and no front derailleur, wouldn't you be severly limited in gears? I am new to the world of internal hubs.

I have since located a Speed TR in Seattle and will be there in a couple weeks for work so will test it out. I usually need a seat post w/ a lot of setback so that will one of the factors.

Also, I have since spoke w/ someone at PBW, probably the owner, and they are only making trikes for now but they do have two demos on the floor. They sound like great bikes.

Thubuster doesn't seem to sap any power. You can dial it in for your weight so that it doesn't work except how you want it to so to speak. For example I have it a bit stiffer so that it takes the big hits but not so stiff as to be like a rock. I don't really notice much movement while pedalling, only on bumps. Keep in mind that even if you do lose a little, that is more than offset (in my experience) by the reduced fatigue. Getting pounded on crappy roads sucks up more of my energy than the seat ever would.

For the internal hub I'll try and be more precise. I have an 8spd red label (high efficiency version) of the Shimano Nexus internal hub. It has a gear range of about 300% (actually a touch more than that). This gives me a pretty good range for touring except for the steepest of all hills. The advantage for me is there are no bits hanging low to get hammered or broken when riding on trails. Under most circumstances the gearing range is more than adequate. However for the steeper ascents like near Sochi in Southern Russia it wouldn't be adequate. So for my Swift I decided to go with just a simple 2 chaingring front crank but without a derailleur mechanism to add weight. I will manually move the chain when I need my super low granny gear range for the mountains. On the back will be a small tensioner to take up the slack but it won't hang down low like a derailleur would. My current Gotham is NOT an internal hub and I forever am pulling brush, twigs, dirt, etc, out the rear derailleur. That is why I decided to go with an internal hub on my Swift.

The TR is a great bike and I have the same drive system on some of my bikes. The DD system is quite good and has a great range of gears. The reason I didn't go this route again was the low hanging derailleur that is necessary if you want a wide gear range. Another plus for me with the internal hub is I can shift a gear while stopped. I encounter a lot of situations while in the FSU where I can't easily plan my stops such as a big truck pulls out and I slam on the brakes. As a result I find that I am often starting out in 5-7th gear and while loaded this is a real PITA. Also while packing the bike in a suitcase the rear derailleurs are much more problematic than hubs. So I will sacrifice a few % efficiency (if that) for the ease of use and cleanliness. Of course a derailleur is more efficient than hub WHEN everything is clean and tidy. In the conditions I've ridden in I had a full time job keeping the crap out of the low hanging chain. It accumulated much more dirt, mud, slop than my higher internal hub geared bikes ever did. So for me I lose theoretical efficiency by going with the internal hub but it is probably better for my usage and MUCH easier to pack in a suitcase.

I find that with the Thubuster I can get a lot of setback as well. I have arms like a gorilla it seems so I hate being to close to the bars. The TR comes standard with it so you might like it a lot.

The PBWs are nice looking bikes but I'd be concerned about an "orphan" type situation.

Yeh i agree with the PHB thing, they do have one or two unusual parts (suspension) and although i think they are worth the cost i would only seriously consider them if i had more cash or if more people actually used and bought them. Still i love that they have a hinge on the maintube unlike BF and that they have suspension plus a frame that looks bombproof.

I think you'll feel very good about taking your trip on any bike if you'll just read the classic book by Thomas Stevens from 1884. He went around the world on his 50 inch high wheeler. It's great reading and should definitely prove inspirational. Yep, it will give you a whole new perspective. You'll probably decide to go with a fixed gear safety or maybe one that folds such as the Hons Solo.

I think you'll feel very good about taking your trip on any bike if you'll just read the classic book by Thomas Stevens from 1884. He went around the world on his 50 inch high wheeler. It's great reading and should definitely prove inspirational. Yep, it will give you a whole new perspective. You'll probably decide to go with a fixed gear safety or maybe one that folds such as the Hons Solo.

Excellent book! I'm almost through "Volume I - From San Francisco to Teheran"

You can download it here BTW:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/5136
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/13749

You can even read it on a Palm Pilot if you have one.

Hey thanks for those links for that book! Nice!