Living Car Free - Hey Lurkers! We want you to start posting!

This has become my favorite subforum, but it's been a little slow lately. Then when I look at the bottom of the page, there's usually about four guests online for every member. It's OK to lurk, but it's even better if you post!

Obviously, most of you guests are interested in both bikes and carfree living, or you wouldn't be here. I bet some of you have even wanted to say something from time to time, but for some reason decided not to. I hope some of you will reconsider and register as a Bikeforums member.

If you're like me, you might be the ONLY ONE in your neighborhood, school or workplace who uses bikes as basic transportation. Or maybe you have considered using your bike to help you become carfree, but you don't have enough support from those around you to finally ditch your car. Either way, Living Carfree can be a supportive community and a valuable database for you.

Internet forums work best when everybody contributes. With more members, this forum will be even more informative and have livelier discussions. And I can practically guarantee that if you LIKE reading posts here, you will LOVE it much more when you start contributing to the forum.

I don't have any financial interest in Bikeforums. I'm not even a moderator, just a regular member who wants new members so this forum will be even better than it already is! :)

Well, I barely post simply because everything I could say has been said before. That's usually the reason I decide not to post :)

But yeah what-ev: I have only had a car for one year in my life and I hated it. Carfree is the way to go. I obsess about simplifying my life, and part of this is not owning things I can't transport myself easily. Whenever I move (within the city), I move most of my stuff on my back on the bike.

Yeah, I am car-free and have been for quite a while. But it isn't a religion for me, and I'm not evangelistic about it. It's just what I do.

Therefore I seldom have anything interesting to post here.

Further, I don't find what most others post to be particularly interesting to me either, so I don't visit this forum nearly as much as I hang out in the Commuting forum.

Well, I barely post simply because everything I could say has been said before. That's usually the reason I decide not to post :)

But yeah what-ev: I have only had a car for one year in my life and I hated it. Carfree is the way to go. I obsess about simplifying my life, and part of this is not owning things I can't transport myself easily. Whenever I move (within the city), I move most of my stuff on my back on the bike.
Well you could say that EVERYTHING has been said before at least once, but that doesn't mean that everybody has heard it.

For example, I don't remember anybody ever mentioning here that they had simplified their life to the point that they could move everything on their back on the bike. But I do remember reading where an ancient Roman philosopher said you should be able to leave your city (Which was definitely a big deal for them back then) with only your staff and the clothes on your back. So you might not have said something totally NEW, but you did bring it up to date and show that an ancient philosophy can still work in our times. So thanks. :)

BTW iBarna-- This would make an interesting thread if you wanted to start it. Something like "What do you own that you can't carry on your bike and why do you really need it?"

i'm not a lurker, but over the past 3-5 years i've grown more into the concept of "simplifying my life". nothing really was the catalyst of this, just realized in my late 20s i wanted to travel more, i've been with my good job for a few years and wanted to start saving more.

so over the past two years i've started bike commuting, sold my car, i own a home with my sig other and share car (best of both worlds), and i can't evangalize enought how much money i save being a "one car family"

i concentrate on "less stuff and more living". i walk into best buy and am baffled at who would spend $4,000 on a TV, but then they would be baffled at why i would want to take a cruise to antarctica if i had that money.

anyway using my bike has helped with my goals in life (financial and healthwise), and given me a lot of money to save and use for traveling... while i'm officially not carfree as i use my S.O.s car for nighttime things like bars or weekend trips, my personal transportation around is just my bike, and i rent every once in a while if i have a conflict.

on a travel note, i LOVE visiting cities where i can walk/bus/taxi around town. i've never been to NY, (need to go), but visited Buenos Aires in October, and have plans for Frankfurt and Amsterdam this year, and possibly some time where i can take a short bike trip for few days outside of the city.

anyway there's my life and goals - and i welcome any lurkers, you can search my name for carfree tips -- i'm a big advocate of online shopping and do it lot (yahoo shopping hooks you up with great sites) not just because of convenience, but i have a large disaste for the amount of overconsumption in our society, and am disgusted that the way to our country's economic prosperity requires the sacrafices of individuals and families to spend way more money than they earn and go into debt and pay it off for years and years.

so in addition to carfree i'm a big debt free advocate, and living a simple life and finding pleasures in other ways than just "buying new toys" will help you accomplish that as well. (this said from a private pilot, one of the most expensive hobbies there is, but everything in moderation :)

sorry for rambling, that's my story :)

All righty then , I sold the car did'nt use it much got three bikes a croozer cargo trailer wanted a recumbent but no way can I afford one I want a singel speed so bad I dream about it almost every night I ride all year round in Toronto (over 20 years) I get off on knowing I am faster getting downtown than cars and the TTC (transit) and getting home faster during snow storms I laugh at drivers stuck in the snow as I ride by, I love watching messengers glide through traffic while on lunch break, I hate anyone that drives whilst yaking on a cell phone< I think SUV's should be banned And it took me ages to firgure out the right kind of clothing to wear in winter and rain cause I can't afford the gortex stuff so I get all my stuff from Marks work wharehouse which is excellent , I love the freedom of no car as I am back in touch with the seasons and the world I feel alive on the bikes I drive , I love Critical Mass rides , I notice every thing while on a bike which I did'nt in a four wheel cage plus I am not killing people or the planet , greeting other bike commuters on the roads with a nod or wave and yes messengers nod or wave back and answer questions about thier fixies but it sucks that we had a bad smog alert in February from all the cars :( , life is better with out owning a car. :D

I suspect the visitors who come to this forum but don't participate are probably looking for solutions they probably already know. I've come to believe, the problems are more than you can imagine in becoming car free. People are married to their jobs, have children or don't have money to move and are stuck geographly in a location that requires motor transport. Then there are others of course, who like where they are but are just not willing to go car free. There are psychological and economic hurdles that have to be overcome when going to a car free lifestyle and many will never get there. But I suspect each one of these members are feeling the pinch of that motorcar or they wouldn't be lurking on this forum in the first place.

Moving to Little Rock was very intimidating to me. Despite having cycled for decades in LA, San Diego and other places, the narrow edges of the highway, steep hills and rough pavement gave me serious pause when I moved here.

But now, 11 months later, I find there has been a bit of a renaissance in my riding. Not that I ride more. My last commute was 5 times as long. But it was on flat wide shoulders with gentle gradients at worst.

But the more difficult riding here has forced me to be a better rider. Because of the hills, doing 30-35 in traffic is a necessity, not an impossibility. I have to be sharper and more aware of my surroundings.

Socially too, I'm more open to cycling. I'm not much of a group rider, but have really enjoyed discovering bicycle advocacy groups for companionship. The facilities here need help.

2005 was a very interesting year bicycling wise. I'm wondering how 2006 will be.

I suspect the visitors who come to this forum but don't participate are probably looking for solutions they probably already know. I've come to believe, the problems are more than you can imagine in becoming car free. People are married to their jobs, have children or don't have money to move and are stuck geographly in a location that requires motor transport. Then there are others of course, who like where they are but are just not willing to go car free. There are psychological and economic hurdles that have to be overcome when going to a car free lifestyle and many will never get there. But I suspect each one of these members are feeling the pinch of that motorcar or they wouldn't be lurking on this forum in the first place.
You're probably right. But one reason for this forum, as I see it, is precisely to help people like you describe to make the decision. And they will get a LOT more out of it if they participate in the discussions.

I think another reason some don't post is that some people are kind of shy or self-conscious about writing out their thoughts for others to read. And some people might (mistakenly) believe that their own story and opinions won't interest others. But hey, everybody's got a story to tell, and most can find the words to tell it if they try. And anybody who lives carfree, or wants to try it, should feel welcome to tell their story here. (of course it helps if you also ride a bike! :))

Of course thoughts about why people read but don't write will have to remain speculative if they won't tell us. Wouldn't it be interesting if some of them registered in Bikeforums and told us what's really going on?

carfree is great (I love it) except for the **** drivers that abuse/run you off the road

I've been lurking on and off about a year, around here, A&S, commuting, and mechanics, to name a few. I guess I've came out of the closet now, huh? Just as well, it was getting crowded in there with parts and spare tires.
And before you ask, yes, I'm car free. Cars suck, who needs 'em?

BTW iBarna-- This would make an interesting thread if you wanted to start it. Something like "What do you own that you can't carry on your bike and why do you really need it?"

Done :) I see your other points as well. I made the resolution to post more ;)

I come here to daydream. When I retire in 7 years, I will move to a city where I can be car free. I also spend time at travel websites daydreaming. I am currently on a tight budget to have the house and bills paid off in the next 5 years. I want to cycle more, but have lost a couple of friends this year in bike/car accidents, and am driving more. I do put the cruise on 50 or 55 on a 4 lane interstate. Some people ride my bumper for over a mile before they change lanes. Drivers are very aggressive, not only to cyclists, but to anyone who slows them down. Some days, I turn the mirrors away so I can't see them. I don't drive to cycle events or over to the east side when I can do something closer. Eventually, I want to be car free, so everyone keep posting, I want to be encouraged.

I don't post here because I am not car-free. I post in the commuting area because I do commute by bike, but not as much as I would like. I am stuck on winter commuting; I can't go successfully (to my standards) in snow and ice, for want of a suitable winter bike (wide studded tires, internal gears, etc.). I come to the car-free area mainly for inspiration.

I am trying to reduce my car use by attacking the heaviest use first. That would be commuting, in all weather. This summer I hope to build a trailer and attack the second heavy use area, errands.

Unfortunately, because I have two teenagers and a spouse who works in a far-out suburb that is in the exact opposite direction from my job, as my biking miles increase, so will the driving miles on our TWO cars. As I add to my biking capability, I do see now insane it is that a family of four people practically must own two multi-thousand-dollar motorized transportation appliances that are on-line 24 hours a day seven days a week. However, I see no way out of it at this time.

Anyone going car-free is my hero.

I post rarely and am car-free. I do read this forum frequently though and admire so many of you for carrying the torch to live a cleaner and healthier life.

I suppose I don't post much because a lot of what I would say has been said, or I have nothing to contribute (see, for instance the "how do you bike with dress clothes" thread - my answer to that is "I don't"), and because I despise arguing, and there's a fair amount of trolling in this forum from time to time from pro-car people and status quo vigilantes who apparently feel threatened or disgusted or wronged by those of us who share our unique views with each other about our sometimes bike-utopia discussions. I want little part in that kind of vituperative dialogue. I'm sick of that aspect of forum discussions.

Car free lurkers don't have time to post because, like me, they are too busy studying bus schedules and generally planning and coordinating bike riding and other transportation activities. :p

The car has been just too convenient. That's why it's such an addiction! :(

I'm not car free, but I do like to read this forum. I have a 15 yo Subaru, but I try to only use it once or twice a week. My BF has an old Toyota truck that's just about dead. He knows he has to get rid of it sometime, but does not seem to be ready yet. We both ride bikes around town a lot, he commutes 2 miles, with a Bob trailer, everyday.

We are both (very) non-trad undergrad students, both studying geology. BF is alomst done with his BS, I have a couple years left. I walk to classes 2 blocks away.

We strive to live simply. I am currently doing some serious apartment cleaning. We have too much clutter. We have a lot of bikes and gear, which is not a problem. We use it all. I'd like to get rid of more stuff than he does, although when I met him he could fit almost everything he owned into his truck. I find it easier to clean when he is not around, as I can throw things away that he forgot we had anyway.

We are pretty adamant about no debt. I've been debt free for over 10 yrs. I use my credit card, but pay it off every month. BF has never had car payments (bought his truck for cash in 1986) but he does have a small student loan. It's been on deferment for a while and he is expecting a windfall this year to pay it off.

We do not own a house and have mixed feeling about it. My parents never owned a house, and did not seem unhappy about it so I never got the impression that you had to own a house. A house is a lot of responsibility, and I am trying to limit the amount of things that require a lot of responsibility in my life. I used to have horses, I loved them but they require A LOT! We have two cats now and that's about enough. My bikes are replacements for horses now. They do not need new tires every 8 weeks, nor do they need to be fed even if I am not riding them. If they break, by BF is good at fixing them.

We are probably quite "poor" for the US, but we probably don't look it. I've been living below taxable for a few years as I go to school (school funded by Pell grants, state grants and scholarships I've worked hard to win). We don't have much for "retirement" and no health insurance (we can pay rent or health insurance, but not both) We have found a nice local clinic for health concerns. I like it so much that there is not much incentive to get health insurance. I've been treated poorly by doctors that are in it for profit. I have always gotten good care at publicly funded clinics.

But I'm mostly glad to have no debt. If my car goes away, I will not make payments for another one. I'll go without until I have to pay cash for an old one.

OK, I've been rambling on here. I am a bit of a lurker, but I do post on Touring and General.

I lurk mostly because I am not car-free. I'd like to be. I started thinking about it because my husband totalled his car in May and is now driving my 13-year-old car to work. He not only drives it to work, but sometimes irritates the heck out of me by coming home from work for lunch, essentially doubling gasoline consumption and wear-and-tear on the car.

Last year I started riding my mountain bike for crosstraining for marathon training and when I got to really like cycling, I bought a road bike in October.

We are also driving once a week from Palmdale to Santa Monica for marathon trianing with the LA Leggers. I'm a mentor for the slowest running group. It's a 65-mile drive. I love helping others to train for LA. I'd like to save the car for just this one trip a week.

Sometime last year, I don't remember exactly when, we stopped at Phidippides, the running shoe store in Encino, either to buy new running shoes or Blistershield or something, and I happened to browse at the bookshelf, buying a book called <i>Divorce Your Car!</i>. That got me really thinking about the whole idea of becoming car-free.

It's a difficult proposition where we live. Everything is very spread out. Our city is trying to work on public transit, recently built a new transportation center with a new Metrolink station. It even has bike lockers. The city is dreaming about adding a rail line from the transportation center to the airport, if and when the airport finally does get major air lines to start using it. A local shuttle service to Las Vegas just shut down, the 2nd air service to shut down in the past 10 years. They have also pinned their hopes on a high-speed rail line being built from Northern California running through the Antelope Valley, but chances are it will run along the I-5 corridor instead.

Most people who live here have jobs either in the San Fernando Valley or in Los Angeles. It's common for folks to have 2-hour morning and evening commutes. During rush hour, the freeway traffic is terrible. During non-rush-hour times, the de facto speed limit on the freeway is 90 mph.

The bus system doesn't run buses very frequently and it can take several hours to get somewhere on a bus with several transfers that would take half-an-hour by bike. I think only the very poor here use the buses.

Our local streets are not exactly bike-friendly. There have been editorials and articles in the local newspaper in the past few weeks about how high the local speed limits are and denials from mayors of both big cities in the valley that they are too high. Many of the local arterials have speed limits of 55-60.

I'd like to move further out into the desert because there is so much building going on here. They are building thousands and thousands of new houses. Where we live was out in the country when we moved here; the city has now moved out to us. The desire to move further into the desert conflicts with the desire to be car-free.

I now have 3 bikes: old GT mountain bike, new Specialized Dolce, and a new Downtube folding bike that has fenders and a rack. I'd like to start riding for errands/shopping, but still haven't gotten locks and without locks I wouldn't even leave the old mountain bike out of my sight. I've thought about riding the Downtube and folding it up and putting it in a grocery cart or riding it to the library. Haven't done either of those things yet. I don't have to commute, as I work here at home at this computer.

Maybe you all can help me overcome some of my fears/anxieties, help me pick out good and reasonably priced (read: cheap) locks, lights, bright/reflective clothing, etc., so that I can get myself out of the house and out riding for more than exercise.

Sorry to ramble so much. I'm out for a 5-mile run and will be back to see if any other lurkers posted. Thanks for letting me talk....:-)

I come here to daydream. When I retire in 7 years, I will move to a city where I can be car free. I also spend time at travel websites daydreaming. I am currently on a tight budget to have the house and bills paid off in the next 5 years. I want to cycle more, but have lost a couple of friends this year in bike/car accidents, and am driving more. I do put the cruise on 50 or 55 on a 4 lane interstate. Some people ride my bumper for over a mile before they change lanes. Drivers are very aggressive, not only to cyclists, but to anyone who slows them down. Some days, I turn the mirrors away so I can't see them. I don't drive to cycle events or over to the east side when I can do something closer. Eventually, I want to be car free, so everyone keep posting, I want to be encouraged.

Where in Michigan do you live? I have been carfree, off and on in Highland Park (Detroit), Jackson and now Lansing. It is a little harder in the Car State! ;) I'm sorry that your friends were killed in bike/car accidents. My stepson and our best friend were almost killed in a single car accident on ice. This actually made me more gung-ho about riding instead of driving. I've fallen on ice a few times but no serious injuries.


I don't post here because I am not car-free. I post in the commuting area because I do commute by bike, but not as much as I would like. I am stuck on winter commuting; I can't go successfully (to my standards) in snow and ice, for want of a suitable winter bike (wide studded tires, internal gears, etc.). I come to the car-free area mainly for inspiration.

I am trying to reduce my car use by attacking the heaviest use first. That would be commuting, in all weather. This summer I hope to build a trailer and attack the second heavy use area, errands.

Unfortunately, because I have two teenagers and a spouse who works in a far-out suburb that is in the exact opposite direction from my job, as my biking miles increase, so will the driving miles on our TWO cars. As I add to my biking capability, I do see now insane it is that a family of four people practically must own two multi-thousand-dollar motorized transportation appliances that are on-line 24 hours a day seven days a week. However, I see no way out of it at this time.

Anyone going car-free is my hero.

Our cities are certainly poorly designed for bikes or walking. Too much sprawl! I admire the steps you've taken toward ditching the cars, especially with a family. Do you find the Winter Bike subforum to be useful?


I post rarely and am car-free. I do read this forum frequently though and admire so many of you for carrying the torch to live a cleaner and healthier life.

I suppose I don't post much because a lot of what I would say has been said, or I have nothing to contribute (see, for instance the "how do you bike with dress clothes" thread - my answer to that is "I don't"), and because I despise arguing, and there's a fair amount of trolling in this forum from time to time from pro-car people and status quo vigilantes who apparently feel threatened or disgusted or wronged by those of us who share our unique views with each other about our sometimes bike-utopia discussions. I want little part in that kind of vituperative dialogue. I'm sick of that aspect of forum discussions.

Actually I've read a lot of your posts on other forums and I thought they were good. Saying "I don't" is a contribution to the discussion, especially if you give a reason, or a little story or something. I know what you mean about trolls. I put one guy on my Ignore list and my blood pressure has gone down a lot! (Actually it's not really a "list" since only one name on it.)


Car free lurkers don't have time to post because, like me, they are too busy studying bus schedules and generally planning and coordinating bike riding and other transportation activities.

The car has been just too convenient. That's why it's such an addiction!


At least we're not spending time stuck at red lights or waiting in auto repair shop lobbies! And does it really take that much more time to post if you're already lurking?


I'm not car free, but I do like to read this forum. I have a 15 yo Subaru, but I try to only use it once or twice a week. My BF has an old Toyota truck that's just about dead. He knows he has to get rid of it sometime, but does not seem to be ready yet. We both ride bikes around town a lot, he commutes 2 miles, with a Bob trailer, everyday.

We are both (very) non-trad undergrad students, both studying geology....I walk to classes 2 blocks away.

We strive to live simply. I am currently doing some serious apartment cleaning. We have too much clutter. We have a lot of bikes and gear, which is not a problem. We use it all [...] We are pretty adamant about no debt. I've been debt free for over 10 yrs. I use my credit card, but pay it off every month. BF has never had car payments (bought his truck for cash in 1986) but he does have a small student loan. It's been on deferment for a while and he is expecting a windfall this year to pay it off.

We do not own a house and have mixed feeling about it... A house is a lot of responsibility, and I am trying to limit the amount of things that require a lot of responsibility in my life. [...]
[...]
But I'm mostly glad to have no debt. If my car goes away, I will not make payments for another one. I'll go without until I have to pay cash for an old one.

OK, I've been rambling on here. I am a bit of a lurker, but I do post on Touring and General.

Those car payments are the second biggest source of debt for most Americans, after mortgages. I never bought a new car, but some of my friends pay almost as much for their cars as their homes. And don't get me started on how much they spend on cell phones! :eek: I had two cars when I was in grad school (one given to me) and paying for them, especially campus parking tickets :D was one reason I didn't finish my PhD. Just tired of being broke was the main reason. :) But remember, you don't have to be carfree to post here--just remember the topic is carfree. And bikes! The greatest common denominator!

It sure is nice to hear from the new folks in the carfree forum.

I also live in Michigan - in a suburb next to Detroit. This has to be the worst area for cycling and alternative modes for transporation! I mean, it is the "MOTOR CITY" afterall. I think things were purposely arranged so that we would have to use cars here.

Anyway, I admire all of you who live car free. I hope to eventually move to a city that has public transportation and is more bike friendly. Keep up the good work everyone! You are definitely a positive influence to the rest of us who hope to make that big change someday!

I really admire the folks who are carefree! As I just posted I do have a car, but I only use it when I need to. It's very helpful to have one right now, being a geology student with an emphasis on field mapping, I sometimes need to drive to my study areas (if I can't catch a ride with another student). But if my car went away I probably wouldn't panic too much.

I come here to daydream. When I retire in 7 years, I will move to a city where I can be car free. I also spend time at travel websites daydreaming. I am currently on a tight budget to have the house and bills paid off in the next 5 years.

Eventually, I want to be car free, so everyone keep posting, I want to be encouraged.

that's great -- sounds a lot like my life. my other favorite web sites are lonely planet, globetrekker, and i'm a big map geek and always at the bookstore a lot reading travel/cultural books.

i've had a "master plan" in my head the past few years of paying down my debt, increasing savings, and traveling more. in 2005 it finally started to come together and i moved to the black financially, and took a two week trip to buenos aires and uruguay.

my sig other and i own a home, but we've discussed the idea of maybe 5-10 years down the road living in an affordable city to the US dollar for a short time, (6 months/year) -thinking eastern europe or argentina, maybe renting our house in denver. i'd love to become involved with some humatarian work overseas, and i'm starting official spanish lessons in a few weeks.

i'm with you on a tight budget. i'm not a cheapskate, i enjoy good dinners with friends and go skiing, but i don't waste money in things i find frivolous, i.e. always needing new electronics, fancy cars. much rather spend it on enriching experiences, (vacations, spanish lessons, flying lessons), than things that just take time to manage and deal with.

also regarding traveling: it can be cheaper than most people think. hostels are a great way to meet people and many have private rooms. house swapping (craigs list), is popular with some people, and whatever airline has a hub in your city often has e-fares to int'l destinations with big savings.

so if you travel based on what deals pop up rather than be stuck on going to one place (like Paris) for example, eventually you'll see a lot of places.

people have a stereotype of people that CHOOSE to be car free as simpletons or not interested in responsilbity, where as for me i choose to spend my money on the truly important things in life to ME. good food, good friends, enriching my mind, and hopefully traveling to more and more places.

all the best

Fine, I'm a lurker.
I joined today because I felt guilty. So here's my first post. I have been riding my bike to work since August of 05. I used to ride everywhere in grade shcool, highschool and college then got married and started driving everywhere. Sold my bikes and gradually forgot about it. I live in MN and fish a lot; about 68 days last season. I sat down this summer to step up to the plate and figure out how much money was going down the drain in fuel and repairs on the Suburban and boat. I Couldn't Believe IT!I bought a bike from a garage sale soon after. And then bought a better one. Needless to say, I have loved just letting the truck sit. I order online all the time and I have new meaning in life again. We are a two car family right now, but I have been trying to figure out a way to go down to one. My wife and I work some wierd hours; overnights, early mornings and late evenings. So here is my question: Has anyone out there sold their boat and truck to move to a house/townhome/apartment on a lake? How did you do it? Was it worth it? I could also sell the truck and keep the boat in a Marina but they charge about $2000-2500 per season around here. Any ideas? I long for a simple life but I can't kick the habit(the fish).
Thanks
MN Dan

Lurker +1 Hopes for carfree living are dismal at this point...as the OPEC laughs with glee

Society deems parents as irresponsible if they don't/can't run interferance for their kids. For example: School nurse calls, can you come right away? "Sure, I'll bike over. See ya in 2hrs. Tell Johnny to hang in cuz he'll have to walk 8mil home (while sick)" WTF????

Then there's the job interviewing 3X/yr....Good luck getting a bus...imagine arriving dripping wet in biking kit...after a 3-9hr interview, weird smells emit from your backpack :eek: Carry a backpack to a professional interview? ???WTF???

thanks for not dis'n the car-free wanna-bees. :)

Fine, I'm a lurker.
I joined today because I felt guilty. So here's my first post. I have been riding my bike to work since August of 05. I used to ride everywhere in grade shcool, highschool and college then got married and started driving everywhere. Sold my bikes and gradually forgot about it. I live in MN and fish a lot; about 68 days last season. I sat down this summer to step up to the plate and figure out how much money was going down the drain in fuel and repairs on the Suburban and boat. I Couldn't Believe IT!I bought a bike from a garage sale soon after. And then bought a better one. Needless to say, I have loved just letting the truck sit. I order online all the time and I have new meaning in life again. We are a two car family right now, but I have been trying to figure out a way to go down to one. My wife and I work some wierd hours; overnights, early mornings and late evenings. So here is my question: Has anyone out there sold their boat and truck to move to a house/townhome/apartment on a lake? How did you do it? Was it worth it? I could also sell the truck and keep the boat in a Marina but they charge about $2000-2500 per season around here. Any ideas? I long for a simple life but I can't kick the habit(the fish).
Thanks
MN Dan
Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you're fast approaching carfree. :)

I can think of similarities between a big gas hog boat and a SUV. If you ditched the SUV you could ride a bike. If you ditched the boat you could use a. . . ? I guess it depends on the fishing you like. If you go after panfish you could move to the lake and dock a fishing boat or even better a kayak or canoe. If you like to go out on Superior for the big fish, maybe look into a sea kayak? Or get some friends together and charter a boat a few times a year. I bet you'll think of something!

Or you could just get a coffee can and a bucket and dip for smelt. :( :D

I like small muscle powered boats almost as much as bikes. Canoe...kayak...rowboat rented at a park. Sailboats are wonderful, but a lot of the same issues as a power boat.

Posting in support of the coolest forum.

I also live in Michigan - in a suburb next to Detroit. This has to be the worst area for cycling and alternative modes for transporation! I mean, it is the "MOTOR CITY" afterall. I think things were purposely arranged so that we would have to use cars here.

Anyway, I admire all of you who live car free. I hope to eventually move to a city that has public transportation and is more bike friendly. Keep up the good work everyone! You are definitely a positive influence to the rest of us who hope to make that big change someday!
This is going to be hard for a lot of people to believe, but there literally is NO public transit in much of the Detroit metro area, and what there is is horrible. I don't use busses much, but they are handy if you don't have a car. The CATA system here in Lansing is fairly good and all the busses have bike racks. Also, Lansing is small enough that most destinations are no more than 30 minutes by bike. The metro Detroit area is HUGE. One of the more sprawly cities in the country. What city do you want to move to?

Posting in support of the coolest forum.

Me too. Car-free for my entire life. Recently succeeded in convincing my S.O. to go car-free. :D

Roody and Kaian,

My early childhood, up to 8yrs old was in the Detroit area, mostly Warren. I've been in downtown Detroit alot and I don't remember ever seeing a bus. Last time I was there was in '90 to visit the old 'hood and I still don't remember seeing a city bus, maybe a Greyhound or something.

Carfree as of August 29th, 2005. Mostly motivated due to my car insurance raising $400/6months when I moved across state. Work is an easy two miles away and grocery shopping is done by bus. Biggest reward so far has been freaking coworkers out in my winter gear :-D

Roody, I live in Novi and work in Allen Park. My husband works in Troy. I work midnights and weekends. I try to commute a lot in the warmer months, but I don't want to fall on ice at night by myself on a 25 mile (each way) commute. Most of our debt is from putting two of our children through 4 years at the University of Michigan. (Think 15 thousand per year, per child) They are only 1 year apart, and by golly, you just can't save enough. So far, we have the money borrowed from the 401 paid off, now we have to pay off the home equity loan. Since both daughters are now pursuring a Masters degree, they are incurring school debt of their own. But....I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I told them I am NOT paying for weddings. Sometime, in my lifetime, the money I make has got to go for me.

Roody, I live in Novi and work in Allen Park. My husband works in Troy. I work midnights and weekends. I try to commute a lot in the warmer months, but I don't want to fall on ice at night by myself on a 25 mile (each way) commute. Most of our debt is from putting two of our children through 4 years at the University of Michigan. (Think 15 thousand per year, per child) They are only 1 year apart, and by golly, you just can't save enough. So far, we have the money borrowed from the 401 paid off, now we have to pay off the home equity loan. Since both daughters are now pursuring a Masters degree, they are incurring school debt of their own. But....I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I told them I am NOT paying for weddings. Sometime, in my lifetime, the money I make has got to go for me.
You should start a thread on the Motor City.

It's a case study for the devastation cars bring on a city, especially when combined with other social ills. And it's so ironic that the industry that built the city ended up contributing so much to it's near demise.

You should start a thread on the Motor City.

It's a case study for the devastation cars bring on a city, especially when combined with other social ills. And it's so ironic that the industry that built the city ended up contributing so much to it's near demise.

It wasn't the car that brought the city to it's demise but third world labor. The auto makers simply decided it was cheaper to send the work to Mexico and close down plants. Now the city has become a large ghetto of highways.

Thanks Roody,
I appreciate the idea's and support. I am still not sure how to do it, so car lite (necessary driving and towing) might have to do for now. But the dream will remain.
thank you
MN Dan

Thanks Roody,
I appreciate the idea's and support. I am still not sure how to do it, so car lite (necessary driving and towing) might have to do for now. But the dream will remain.
thank you
MN Dan

I think it is difficult to make that last step to carfree, and many people just can't do it right away, for many reasons. Based on what I've read in this forum there are 2 main difficulties.

The first is physical, meaning that our cities and especially our suburbs and countryside are very badly designed. Also, family and work circumstances make it seem almost impossible sometimes.

The 2nd big reason I see is more psychological. People are so accustomed to cars that they just can't imagine doing without. They can't figure out how to make the little adjustments in thought and behavior that will take them where they want to be. Some people are understandably scared about making such a big change.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like most of your problems are in the first category--you can imagine yourself not having a car, but maybe there is some physical reason that you can't do it right now.

Well, keep that dream in the front of your mind, and keep studying on it.Good luck, and keep posting!

I guess I haven't posted much here because I don't feel that do enough car-free stuff. Even though I don't own a car and I ride to most of the places that I need to go to, those places are usually just class, on campus activities and the occassional errand around town. I don't see my car-freedom as anything interesting to talk about.

It seems like a lot of people here do some amazing things (namely grocery shopping) on their bikes and I just do basic, simple things without a car.

Well Roody, after somethings that were posted in regards to me a few months ago shortly after this subforum was created, my posting here has all but vanished, and I dont see that changing. While I agree that w/o posting the forum doesnt work at all, sometimes at least in my case, I just assume really not say anything at all........most of its already been said. Some things in life must be learned on one's own methinks.

admit to occasionally lurking in this forum and have only posted once or twice here.

To me this forum has the potential of being the purest in purpose but purists can be alienating and alienated by the very nature of trying to be "pure". Being car-free or the desire to be so is reflective of a very independent personality type. Take note of how many of the posts relate to being free of debt, breaking free of the crippling infra-structures of society. Cyclists in general are distanced in many ways from the social norm, commuting cyclists even more so, those who commute in the winter even more so, those who use their bikes to get everywhere even more so and those without a car- oh my! And I'll bet a lot of car free people don't have a television.


I do own a car (an 11 year old Toyota that spends most of it's time in the parking lot of my building).
I do own a television (with the cheapest possible cable available in my area-$9/month).
I do own a cell phone (and use it much more than I do my land line, which I'm thinking of dropping).
I do own a computer (and I'm on the internet way more than I watch tv or drive my car or use my cell phone).

In many ways I'd love to be free of all of those things but then I wouldn't be able to post in here but I'll bet I'd find something at least as equally worthwhile to be doing with my time.

I can think of similarities between a big gas hog boat and a SUV. If you ditched the SUV you could ride a bike. If you ditched the boat you could use a. . . ? I guess it depends on the fishing you like. If you go after panfish you could move
to the lake and dock a fishing boat or even better a kayak or canoe. If you like to go out on Superior for the big fish, maybe look into a sea kayak? Or get some friends together and charter a boat a few times a year. I bet you'll think of something!

I like small muscle powered boats almost as much as bikes. Canoe...kayak...rowboat rented at a park. Sailboats are wonderful, but a lot of the same issues as a power boat.

I've lived on the water with access to both power and rowboats and used to fish often. In the end, for fishing I much preferred the row boat. I would go out early in the morning and developed a superstition that the fish would stop biting when the powerboats came out. I had equal access to a larger powerboat and more elaborate fishing gear but more stuff didn't contribute to the fishing quality. With the rowboat I didn't go more than two miles to fish and usually much less but I got to know the local waters and fish. The powerboaters would go zooming past me to far off fishing grounds as I rowed home with a couple sea trout for breakfast. I didn't like canoes or kayaks because I liked to stand up. Also I'd sometimes go with a couple friends so we had room for a cooler in the row boat.

I don't get the whole bass boat scene either. When I row here on the Potomac I see guys come zipping up in their powerboats, cast for a few minutes, then roar off a half mile, repeat. They might use their electric trolling motor for a few minutes but it doesn't look relaxing or fun. They seem so uptight while fishing and they seem like they're going to explode when they're around the boat ramp launching or hauling.

A rowboat designed for rowing can be a joy once you connect with the rhythm and learn the basics of pulling on the oars. A boat designed for an engine that happens to have some crappy oars might work but won't feel the same as a classic trout boat design from the age before outboards.

Here was my technique for fishing from the rowboat:
Let the lure out and row slowly until I got a strike. Let the anchor go and try to
bring the fish in. I'd fish that area and make a mental note of the location by triangulating landmarks. Also I'd note the weather. After a few years I had a mental map of where to fish based on the weather and time of day. I still explored and just to be experimental I'd go off the plan or try bait fishing, bowfishing or crabbing. Fishing isn't so much about catching the poor critters as it is just doing it is it? I'm not talking about fishing for a living here just having some fun messing around in the boat and testing your understanding of the fish.

For my last rowboat I had this two wheeled contraption for moving it. It was made with two small bicycle wheels and rubber pads to hold one end of the boat. By placing the boat on this thing you could move it easily with muscle power. I never hitched it to a bicycle but the weight and balance was well within what a bike is capable of moving.

I lurk mostly because I am not car-free. I'd like to be. I started thinking about it because my husband totalled his car in May and is now driving my 13-year-old car to work. He not only drives it to work, but sometimes irritates the heck out of me by coming home from work for lunch, essentially doubling gasoline consumption and wear-and-tear on the car.

Last year I started riding my mountain bike for crosstraining for marathon training and when I got to really like cycling, I bought a road bike in October.

We are also driving once a week from Palmdale to Santa Monica for marathon trianing with the LA Leggers. I'm a mentor for the slowest running group. It's a 65-mile drive. I love helping others to train for LA. I'd like to save the car for just this one trip a week.

Sometime last year, I don't remember exactly when, we stopped at Phidippides, the running shoe store in Encino, either to buy new running shoes or Blistershield or something, and I happened to browse at the bookshelf, buying a book called <i>Divorce Your Car!</i>. That got me really thinking about the whole idea of becoming car-free.

It's a difficult proposition where we live. Everything is very spread out. Our city is trying to work on public transit, recently built a new transportation center with a new Metrolink station. It even has bike lockers. The city is dreaming about adding a rail line from the transportation center to the airport, if and when the airport finally does get major air lines to start using it. A local shuttle service to Las Vegas just shut down, the 2nd air service to shut down in the past 10 years. They have also pinned their hopes on a high-speed rail line being built from Northern California running through the Antelope Valley, but chances are it will run along the I-5 corridor instead.

Most people who live here have jobs either in the San Fernando Valley or in Los Angeles. It's common for folks to have 2-hour morning and evening commutes. During rush hour, the freeway traffic is terrible. During non-rush-hour times, the de facto speed limit on the freeway is 90 mph.

The bus system doesn't run buses very frequently and it can take several hours to get somewhere on a bus with several transfers that would take half-an-hour by bike. I think only the very poor here use the buses.

Our local streets are not exactly bike-friendly. There have been editorials and articles in the local newspaper in the past few weeks about how high the local speed limits are and denials from mayors of both big cities in the valley that they are too high. Many of the local arterials have speed limits of 55-60.

I'd like to move further out into the desert because there is so much building going on here. They are building thousands and thousands of new houses. Where we live was out in the country when we moved here; the city has now moved out to us. The desire to move further into the desert conflicts with the desire to be car-free.

I now have 3 bikes: old GT mountain bike, new Specialized Dolce, and a new Downtube folding bike that has fenders and a rack. I'd like to start riding for errands/shopping, but still haven't gotten locks and without locks I wouldn't even leave the old mountain bike out of my sight. I've thought about riding the Downtube and folding it up and putting it in a grocery cart or riding it to the library. Haven't done either of those things yet. I don't have to commute, as I work here at home at this computer.

Maybe you all can help me overcome some of my fears/anxieties, help me pick out good and reasonably priced (read: cheap) locks, lights, bright/reflective clothing, etc., so that I can get myself out of the house and out riding for more than exercise.

Sorry to ramble so much. I'm out for a 5-mile run and will be back to see if any other lurkers posted. Thanks for letting me talk....:-)

Don't worry about talking too much on this forum. That is the real reason why each of us posts here. We all have something to offer someone somewhere. As for me, I live here in the same city as she does. The only difference is I live over by the wrong side of the tracks. Where all the gang members congregate, high crime (especially toward lone cyclists smashing the back of their heads with baseball bats), violent behavior abounds! I post here to assist and keep safe the urban (and now increasing suburban) cyclist how to be car free or at least car lite in a area of unprediciable people (and their poor driving skills plus unfenced loose dogs). I do not dwell on such matters yet I like to always keep the things I have learned here on the streets as well as the forums at the forefront of my mind as I go through my vastly changed neighborhood.

I rarely post to "Car-Free" because I'm not. I appreciate many of the perspectives, though not always the attitiudes (sorry :o ) I suppose I keep reading because I'm expecting that someone is going to answer the questions I haven't though of yet. I feel like I'm with you all on the message and reasoning, but that I just can't seem to make it work for me as a lifestyle change.

I'm so not car-free that I have 3 of them, and don't really see having the ability to change that anytime soon. I work at a job that's 21 miles away, and requires regular travel. I drive a Diesel to work that I put BioDiesel in (though with the cold temperatures that bit me this week). I have commuted by bike a few times, and had bad experiences with local drivers, that make me feel unsafe. I also don't think that riding in the sub-freezing temperatures is safe - I understand that studded tires will help you keep from sliding on black ice, but none of the cars that will slide into me have studded tires. I probably wouldn't be such a wimp about it except that I have two little boys that I value more than my own life, and don't want anything to happen to me for their sake. Also the commute is 1 1/2 hr each way, and that means 2 less hours to spend with the boys when I do commute by bike.

We ride on the local greenway trails together, but there's no way that the local roads are safe for us to buy groceries, etc. The wife is a photographer (and mother), and needs to take the kids with her when shopping, and travel regularly for events that she photographs. The third car is a backup (well, pickup really) that we need because it is so critical that we have access to our vehicles at all times that we can't live without them when they're in the shop. It also allows me to buy supplies to work on the house and yard. Moving to the town that I work in is financially unviable, and finding a job that will pay near as well in my town has proven unsuccessful.

I realize that I list a lot of reasons, and I hope it doesn't come across as complaining, I've just looked at it from so many angles and don't see other solutions that would lead us to be car free. I wanted to do something about how bad the roads are for bikes here, and have just been appointed to our town's Trail Commission. The town is actually currently working on a bike plan and I hope to be involved in that as well. I want to build two tandem trikes because someday soon the boys will be old enough to pedal along with us, and we need to be able to stay together, if we're going to go anywhere of significance...

What I hope in my occasional reading is to find ways to reduce our use of cars; but I can't even say that I want to be completely car-free. The wife and I daydream of retirement someday where we live in a mobile home (truck'n'trailer) that we can take up north in the summer and bring south in the winter so that we can park it and bike around on a day to day basis. :rolleyes: {daydreaming**

So here is my question: Has anyone out there sold their boat and truck to move to a house/townhome/apartment on a lake? How did you do it? Was it worth it? I could also sell the truck and keep the boat in a Marina but they charge about $2000-2500 per season around here. Any ideas? I long for a simple life but I can't kick the habit(the fish).

If you can fish with a kayak, you can convert your bike to transport your kayak with an Xtracycle wheelbase extention kit. With the wide-loader adapter people transport kayaks and surfboards, etc. by bike. I use my Xtracycle to put my two kids on the back of my bike.

This forums is quite inciteful at times. I don't post often, but read frequently. I've seen a few threads on being car free with a family, but few overall. When single years ago, I owned a car that would not get used for weeks at a time. Given the job interview, picking up kids, coaching, etc. .... grocery shopping, home depot runs, etc. I am just a car free wannabe too.

However, when vacationing, we usually take taxies, buses, etc. You can actually enjoy the view and get a better feel that way. At some point, I want to get back to being a single care family and that is likely the best I can hope for in balancing my desires with the families, etc.

I am so happy to read posts from a lot of "new" people, and of course from the regulars too. I just spent my whole break reading posts on this forum. Now I don't have time to post much myself, and no time to check in on the other BF subforums I follow (Commuting, Winter Biking, Advocacy & Safety and a couple others sporadically.)

I don't think I have a favorite subforum, but I like this one a lot. That's because, living in the American city that builds the most cars, I have sometimes felt like I'm the only person in the world who is carfree by choice. Here, I do feel like I'm part of a larger community, and that's real nice.

I now have 3 bikes: old GT mountain bike, new Specialized Dolce, and a new Downtube folding bike that has fenders and a rack. I'd like to start riding for errands/shopping, but still haven't gotten locks and without locks I wouldn't even leave the old mountain bike out of my sight. I've thought about riding the Downtube and folding it up and putting it in a grocery cart or riding it to the library. Haven't done either of those things yet. I don't have to commute, as I work here at home at this computer.

Maybe you all can help me overcome some of my fears/anxieties, help me pick out good and reasonably priced (read: cheap) locks, lights, bright/reflective clothing, etc., so that I can get myself out of the house and out riding for more than exercise.

Hi Michele,
I'd encourage you to just try it out! Pick a nice sunny day so you don't have to worry about lights or reflective clothing. Take the downtube to the library, fold it up and bring it inside.

Is bike theft common where you are? If there aren't a lot of cyclists around it may be the type of place where any old lock will do, because who would want to ride the bike if they stole it? Get a new u-lock - the old ones (with a cylindrical lock) can be picked with a bic pen. Any lock of course can be compromised so you want to give a potential thief as little incentive as possible - riding the older bike is better for this of course.

So GO NOW buy yourself a cheap u-lock, and ride happily to the store, pick out a good stationary object to lock the bike to (making it as tight as possible so its hard to break the lock with leverage), go shopping, and get to enjoy the wonders of bike as transport.

Tanya

I never posted because ... oops just fixed that problem! *just signed up* This is an awesome forum and now plan on lurking and posting more frequently... thanks for that little "shove".

Anyway I've never had a car and plan to keep it that way! But I'm lucky... my job, library, mall, theatre, food stores, rec center, pet store, and hiking trail are within a two mile radius of my home, and this isn't even the city! We also have an excellent transit system for those long trips, and I rarely have to wait more than a few minutes for the bus. Bike paths are everywhere, and the weather is perfect for bicycling any time of the year. So bieng "car-free" is not a handicap at all for me, and for the above reasons I almost feel guilty gloating about my lifestyle when there is nothing monumental about it. I wish all you car-free people could move here, cause the Seattle area is almost famous for its bike-friendlyness (and for the STP which I plan to do someday!) ... and it might cut back the ever increasing cars parked by the ever increasing houses, which is the only downside I can think of.

I usually post dumb things, so its maybe better that I keep quiet...

Most people who live here have jobs either in the San Fernando Valley or in Los Angeles. It's common for folks to have 2-hour morning and evening commutes. During rush hour, the freeway traffic is terrible. During non-rush-hour times, the de facto speed limit on the freeway is 90 mph.

The bus system doesn't run buses very frequently and it can take several hours to get somewhere on a bus with several transfers that would take half-an-hour by bike. I think only the very poor here use the buses.

Our local streets are not exactly bike-friendly. There have been editorials and articles in the local newspaper in the past few weeks about how high the local speed limits are and denials from mayors of both big cities in the valley that they are too high. Many of the local arterials have speed limits of 55-60.



Madam, you have my sympathy. :(
Just when I thought my city was utterly nuts, someone comes along and shows what StraightjacketVille is really like. Everyone in your neck of the woods must've lost their cotton pickin' minds. :eek:
Holy hell in a handbasket Batman!
I suggest you bail outta that hellhole ASAP. I hear bikes rule in Portland... Best of luck surviving that mess.

And I'll bet a lot of car free people don't have a television.

I wouldn't place that bet, buzz. When you're car free, you learn to use the noodle, cruise hardware shops, source for the best bargains, and geek it up.
I've got a TV, a decent 21" low frills hi-rez flat tube model, a fairly decent DVD, VCR, and satelite. If you've seen the local TV programming around here, you'de get sat, too. I've built up a decent sound system to go with it, complete with a homebrewed dual 10" isometric bandpass subwoofer and stand speakers that sounds just as good as the high end factory jobs. I bought a book on speaker building, and another on studio level audio setups.
And all this without a cash sucking eternal confusion engine in the way. The only motor I need is the one god gave me. :D