Living Car Free - How simply do you live?

As of right now, my possessions include:

- 35 Canadian dollars
- A few books and maps
- 6 sewing needles, a very small roll of black nylon thread, thimble
- A small tea tin filled with strike-anywhere matches
- Knife and razor
- Two lengths of braided nylon and poly rope, probably about 25 feet altogether.
- Shaving razor and gel
- Old sleeping bag
- Clothing worn on back
- Modified nylon hammock
- small tin cup
- small army-surplus shoulder bag

That is about it, I think it weighs about 4-5 pounds. I do need to pick up a cooking pot in the near future. I will leave the books behind (except for one or two possibly) to increase mobility when I am on the move again as I am staying with my sister at the moment. I spend a significant part of my life these days homeless on the street or countryside on the move on foot, so I have a vested interest in mobility. I gave my mountain bike to my sister over a year ago as I would just end up ditching it somewhere when I decide to hitch or take off somewhere where I won't require the use of the bike. All these possessions will fit into the small shoulder bag with the exception of the sleeping bag. I only carry the sleeping bag and hammock (or a tarp, or other portable shelter material) in winter. I certainly feel more free with a minimum of material culture. Depending on the situation I ditch things I don't need anymore and pick up new things as the need arises.

Thanks for suggesting the kakebuton and shikibuton. I have never consider this before. I tell you this site has allow me to live a better life over the six months I have read posts here.

Come on madnomad, do you really need 6 sewing needles? Isn't that a bit excessive?

:p ;)

Hi iBarna!

Two quotes I'm fond of:


"Success isn't defined by the things you have.
It's defined by the things you don't need."

"It is desirable that a man be clad so simply...and that he live in all respects so compactly and preparedly
that, if an enemy take the town, he can, like the old philosopher, walk out the gate empty-handed without anxiety."


I love these. Thanks. I'm saving them.

Good stuff everyone!!!

I still live at home so most things that I use (television, movies, furniture) are not mine and I don’t plan on purchasing them once I do move out. All of my belongings (except the bike) are in my small room, yet I have so much free space that I can practice poi in there! I used to be a packrat, but one day did a little de-cluttering and it felt so good that I kept getting rid of stuff, and still do. My ultimate goal is to reduce everything down to everyday “necessities.” I feel I do live the simple life… no car, no debts, no enemies, no school (did graduate), no addictions, plenty of income from my part time job, and loads of free time. It’d be awesome to live so simply that I could transport everything by bike, but the marine biologist in me won’t part with the aquarium, so a pick-up truck will have to do once I decide to flee the nest.

It is also so much fun to fight societies standards. Who needs a car and two jobs while going to college and renting your own apartment? Not me! I also don’t wear make-up, shave my legs, shower everyday, or act like a normal 20-year-old female, and I have a blast doing it … even when people do mistaken me for a guy, LOL.

I also consider myself very lucky that I grew up poor… it taught me to enjoy the simplest pleasures and the value of a dollar. It just boggles my mind to watch people blow their entire savings account on a shopping spree and clutter their house with it!

My awesome laptop means I don't need a tv, vcr, dvd player, desktop computer, radio, stereo, speakers, fax machine, etc cluttering up our apartment.

My wife and I live in a 32ft. motorhome and we have Way too much stuff. We are slowly giving it away on freecycle. STUFF is more of an issue than spending money. The motorhome does somewhat limit what we can purchase. Something comes in and something must go out.

ive lived in a small camper for 2 years now. i have some stuff in a storage unit ,but im going to give it away because i havent missed it. im looking into buying a houseboat to live on i think it would be great. the biggest thing i have is two bikes and a padicab, (and im thinking about getting another one this year). i used to be driver for ups. i thought i had to have a huge house and a nice car, home theater all that crap. then one day i quite, i hated that job so much. im so much happier now. f*#k keeping up with the jones. .. they can keep there debt.

I spend a significant part of my life these days homeless on the street or countryside on the move on foot, so I have a vested interest in mobility... Depending on the situation I ditch things I don't need anymore and pick up new things as the need arises.

Yes we have several members who post on Bike Forums who are homeless by choice, H. Katrina or for other reasons. I wish you the very best in the coming year :)


-vr

I'll be one of the first to admit that I do not think I live minimally. I very much admire those of you who live minimally and are happy doing so. I lived fairly minimally throughout college and grad school (out of financial necessity), but even then still fancied the "finer things", such as computers, music, and of course bicycles. Now, I tend to buy what I want to, even if it's an impulse buy, and not feel too bad about it. I don't think I could list all of my possessions without spending a decent amount of time taking inventory of the house and garage. I'm sure I don't need everything I have. There are some things which I could have, but have no desire to own (such as big screen TVs, entertainment systems, cars, nice furniture, kitchenware, ect). But pretty much, if I want something, I buy it. :o

ive lived in a small camper for 2 years now. i have some stuff in a storage unit ,but im going to give it away because i havent missed it. im looking into buying a houseboat to live on i think it would be great. the biggest thing i have is two bikes and a padicab, (and im thinking about getting another one this year). i used to be driver for ups. i thought i had to have a huge house and a nice car, home theater all that crap. then one day i quite, i hated that job so much. im so much happier now. f*#k keeping up with the jones. .. they can keep there debt.

WAY TO GO CABANA 4 LIFE! :D

I dream of dropping out and becoming a wandering poet. I still have a student loan to pay off before I can do this (it's with family so while I can't skip on it, I have flexible terms).
Houseboat is a definite dream of mine - I'd love to live in a Great Lakes tugboat or a river barge as they're huge but then, there's money to maintain them I think. (I know little about boats coming from an aviation background)

May I ask, do you live in a warm part of the world?
I can't see living "off the grid" in the arctic - too harsh - but in a warm climate, a houseboat or camper would be workable.

EDIT: I'll echo vrkellys best wishes. Anyone who's checked out of the rat-race has my utmost respect and admiration.

Yes we have several members who post on Bike Forums who are homeless by choice, H. Katrina or for other reasons. I wish you the very best in the coming year :)


-vr


Thank you vrkelly, I wish you the same :)

I shed most of my belongings when I was moved to Costa Rica. Now that I am back in the states my idea of minimalism is much more minimal. :) You should really take a look at this site (www.simpleliving.net) go in the forums section that have advice and encouragement (much like here) around all of the different angles of simple living. This site and there are the two that keep me truckin' in a low paying job and living a "rich" lifestyle.

Call me a sceptic, but.....
"simple living" huh? anti-consumerist my a$$....all that seems to be done on this site is sell books.
remember folks, you can't "live simply" by taking out these books at the library, you gotta buy them!

I like having stuff.

Call me a sceptic, but.....
"simple living" huh? anti-consumerist my a$$....all that seems to be done on this site is sell books.
remember folks, you can't "live simply" by taking out these books at the library, you gotta buy them!

Or you could go to your local Chapters/Indigo, find said book and read it there without buying it.

i agree with dahon steve-stay out of the credit card trap! i had myself in quite a $$$ mess when i had credit card debt and it SUCKS!


I have avoided CC debt like the plague too!

When I was young, just out of high school, I got my first CC from a local bank. The credit limit was $500. I had that card for about 10 yrs. It worked out great, I couldn't rack up any more than the limit. I think I carried a balance on it once or twice, mostly I paid it off every month. I knew that if I wanted to spend more than $500, I may as well pay in cash.

Now I have 2 CC. I usually don't carry them around with me. Only if I am travelling (for emergencies) of if I know I am going to specifically buy something with them. One is a REI Visa. I get cash back towards my REI dividend. REI is one of the few places I like to shop. This CC is from a large bank that has a local branch that I can make the payments on the card at (they have not had any problem with me bringing my bike in, right up to the teller window). I got a late fee once b/c the PO was slow getting my payment to them by mail, so now I pay in person.

I have not had car payments for 10 yrs. My 15yo Subaru still looks and runs well.

My BF got his first CC at 38yrs old. He still has the first vehicle he bought for cash in 1986, but it's not running too well anymore. He rides his bike mostly anyway.

I don't know what my "credit score" is. Nor do I care. I can't think of anything I want bad enough to go into debt for it.

I'm a full-time (non-trad) undergrad student, and I am "poor" enough to get Pell grants and scholarships to pay for all my tuition and most of my living expenses. Life is good. School is fun!

I was wrapping my self worth in the items I owed. Funny I thought I owed them, but they actually owned me.
(but then...)

I started to donate my items slowly at first and have been cleaning the house ever since.

I guess you pwned those items. :)

Myself I like some posessions. I'm going to buy a used computer and get rid of two crappy computers I have. I usually don't give away clothes- I just keep them and use them till they're worn out. I don't buy many clothes. I don't buy many kitchen implements either, but my partner buys lots and then they sort of belong to her and me. I consider having a toaster oven and microwave to be worth it since they save some electricity. I own four bikes but I'm getting rid of one. That'll leave me with two that have mostly interchangeable parts (i'll be ready if something breaks) and one folding bike. I also have two computers that don't really work right, but have some parts that are still good so I need to take the trouble to give them away on craigslist or somesuch.


I can't see living "off the grid" in the arctic - too harsh - but in a warm climate, a houseboat or camper would be workable.

I know the guy who used to be (and still is, probably) head of the Alaska Green party. He lives in a fairly big 2 story house with walls of big bales of straw stuccoed over, and heated/powered by solar and wind. I think the walls are 6 feet thick. The house can't have been cheap, but he has no home energy bills. That's one way to be off the grid.

Ten years ago when i moved out of my parents' house, I had a rusty old car and little else. I had no possessions to speak of. I didn't even have a TV. I just had a few clothes and that was it. Since then I have gotten married, had kids and bought a house. It would easily take two semi trailers to move me now. And I'm not kidding either!

We have a good sized home with lots of storage areas, which are mostly full. We have tons of stuff. Too much? (is 6 TV's too much?) Probably but what do i care. I have a great family and if it makes them happy it makes me happy. Personally I don't require much.

I enjoyed reading this thread and enjoy this forum because it is supportive of my own habits and makes me feel like i am not alone in them. First of all, being car free where i live is not socially acceptable. Here if you don't own a car you are lazy or poor trash or a druggie or an alcoholic. That may seem harsh but the very best i can hope for is to be considered eccentric and not crazy. :P

Also, I might be just a little crazy. I saw Steve dahon talking about buying things to counter depression. My problem is anxiety and i try to control my life. I think there are many people living anxious lives in the middle of the cities in America who are cut off from society to varying degrees. As i said, my choices are not the norm and society frowns on that. My car free lifestyle, my low stress job working as a night janitor, all my choices are really about controlling my life.

Another poster asked what philosphers we got our inspiration from and i hate to agree with Bush but put me down for Jesus Christ. Actually since i became a christian i let some of the control go out of my life and turned to God for certain things, sorta letting go and letting God, etc, etc.

I also liked that quote from lost in translation, the more you know about urself and who u are the less you let things bother u, true. I think it's important to try to be a good person and do what you think is right and to live and let live. I love my bicycle for it's simplicity and economy and the beauty of its function.

Ramble on.

This is one of the best threads I have read on this forum. I read every one of the posts and found them inspiring.


so far bike forums has been great for me in that I was finally convinced to get studded snow tires for my commuter and they've made all the difference in the world.

Now I am packing up one of the old tv sets (it works great) that was given to me years ago (now that it has been replaced by a newer tv that was given to me) and giving it away. see you later.

Another poster asked what philosphers we got our inspiration from and i hate to agree with Bush but put me down for Jesus Christ. Actually since i became a christian i let some of the control go out of my life and turned to God for certain things, sorta letting go and letting God, etc, etc.

I also liked that quote from lost in translation, the more you know about urself and who u are the less you let things bother u, true. I think it's important to try to be a good person and do what you think is right and to live and let live. I love my bicycle for it's simplicity and economy and the beauty of its function.

Ramble on.


Thanks -- i heard him say that and thought "hey, that's a great philosphy for life"

As are the Beatitudes, regardless of religion

I have avoided CC debt like the plague too!

When I was young, just out of high school, I got my first CC from a local bank. The credit limit was $500. I had that card for about 10 yrs. It worked out great, I couldn't rack up any more than the limit. I think I carried a balance on it once or twice, mostly I paid it off every month. I knew that if I wanted to spend more than $500, I may as well pay in cash.

Now I have 2 CC. I usually don't carry them around with me. Only if I am travelling (for emergencies) of if I know I am going to specifically buy something with them. One is a REI Visa. I get cash back towards my REI dividend. REI is one of the few places I like to shop. This CC is from a large bank that has a local branch that I can make the payments on the card at (they have not had any problem with me bringing my bike in, right up to the teller window). I got a late fee once b/c the PO was slow getting my payment to them by mail, so now I pay in person.

I have not had car payments for 10 yrs. My 15yo Subaru still looks and runs well.

My BF got his first CC at 38yrs old. He still has the first vehicle he bought for cash in 1986, but it's not running too well anymore. He rides his bike mostly anyway.

I don't know what my "credit score" is. Nor do I care. I can't think of anything I want bad enough to go into debt for it.

I'm a full-time (non-trad) undergrad student, and I am "poor" enough to get Pell grants and scholarships to pay for all my tuition and most of my living expenses. Life is good. School is fun!

I think credit cards are great: for air miles, bonuses, airlines tickets (safety if out of biz), and buying things on e-bay, or internet purchase.

they provide MUCH more safety and protection than a debit card. but as mentioned above they require delicate delicate handling to balance (no pun intended), the few good things about credit cards versus the bad. kind of like carrying a grenade around for protection, for an unskilled person there's more risk of it blowing up in your face.

i do get my credit reports (not score) every six months, i think it's good to know what's "on file" about you. there's usually always a few innaccurate things.

also speaking of "off the grid", something i've done for the past seven years is own a mailbox at mail boxes etc. it's a $150 a year, but keeps my address stable no matter where i live, and they accept packages for me (i get lots of stuff online). i've moved two times, bought a house, and i keep my mail going there.

it's not for any militant paranoid reason, but just a little buffer between where i live and the outside world. i don't want people and companies to easily find where i live. (actually MBE makes you show proof of location, but i've moved since then).

this book is a fun read, "how to be invisible", which takes it to the extreme - -but for practical everyday things like women protecting their privacy from creepy guys at work (or vice versa), some of the stuff makes a lot of sense. or think of what happened with richard jewell, (falsely accused olympic bomber): should you be involved with something high profile, having the media not be able to locate your place of residence is great benefit. (and we all know how fair the media is)

and another benefit, should you just want to pick up and say move to argentina for a month, you wouldn't have to change your mail. just have them keep it, or forward it

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312319061/qid=1136836225/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-1404129-7119017?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

anyway now everyone probably thinks i'm nuts, but oh well :)

WAY TO GO CABANA 4 LIFE! :D

I dream of dropping out and becoming a wandering poet. I still have a student loan to pay off before I can do this (it's with family so while I can't skip on it, I have flexible terms).
Houseboat is a definite dream of mine - I'd love to live in a Great Lakes tugboat or a river barge as they're huge but then, there's money to maintain them I think. (I know little about boats coming from an aviation background)

May I ask, do you live in a warm part of the world?
I can't see living "off the grid" in the arctic - too harsh - but in a warm climate, a houseboat or camper would be workable.

EDIT: I'll echo vrkellys best wishes. Anyone who's checked out of the rat-race has my utmost respect and admiration.

i live in west michigan about a mile from lake michigan. winter in the camper is ok, its got a furnace so i spend about $40 a month on lp gas. i also put it next to my parents house in the winter because most campground's wont let me stay there, plus then my mom dosent worry so much about me. it cool being around house it's amazing how meny people have wireless internet that you can borrow.

Ummm... do they know you are burrowing it? ;)

I

also speaking of "off the grid", something i've done for the past seven years is own a mailbox at mail boxes etc. it's a $150 a year, but keeps my address stable no matter where i live, and they accept packages for me (i get lots of stuff online). i've moved two times, bought a house, and i keep my mail going there.



oh and from a privacy advocate point of view what could be better than being car-free?

keeping your true address from insurance companies, loan companies, and state registrations is a huge pain in the butt.

bike, bus, subways, cabs, and trains are the preferred method for the james bond subterfuge lifestyle :)

James Denver: I don't think you're odd at all. Those are great ideas for managing contact with society while keeping it from intruding.

Before paying the cards off and cutting them up, I had large amounts of AirMiles/SkyMiles, whatever each of them called their rewards points.

If I redeemed points for air travel, I still ended up paying sales tax, airport tax, fuel surcharges and any other fee they saw fit to charge. A short, 60 minute flight between here and where my grandmother lives would have cost about $100 in "fees" even with points.

If I took the TRAIN instead, I'd have a 5 hour trip BUT little or no fees if I used the accumulated reward points. I guess I'm just saying, while these reward programs can be useful, big-money (CC companies, banks, utilities, big-oil etc) will do EVERYTHING in their power to keep taking money from your pocket - such as those "fees" when you want to redeem points.

To me, frugality means being ruthless with your money when other people want it so you still have some when YOU want to spend it.


*** *** ***

Cabana 4 Life: thanks for the info! I'm feeling even more inspired knowing about your location and also hearing about the fellow in Alaska with the straw-bale house living off the grid.

[QUOTE=af895]

Before paying the cards off and cutting them up, I had large amounts of AirMiles/SkyMiles, whatever each of them called their rewards points.

If I redeemed points for air travel, I still ended up paying sales tax, airport tax, fuel surcharges and any other fee they saw fit to charge. A short, 60 minute flight between here and where my grandmother lives would have cost about $100 in "fees" even with points.

QUOTE]

very true - i've used them for int'l travel, but fees do at up.

what kind of aviation consulting do you do? (saw in earlier post). i've had my private pilot's certificate since 2000, (speaking of easy,fun ways to travel). i have my IFR hours done, but i don't fly enought to keep IFR current so didn't proceed further. but i love flying when i CAN afford it, great way to keep your mind sharp, and i'm a map geek to so love looking at approach plates, and the systems and procedures and commication of commercial and general aviation...

[QUOTE=cerewa](but then...)

I never said that the writing on my computer makes as much sense as when its in my head.



My father always called them the golden chains. Debt, Car payment, to many possesions. I just need to clear the space. I think one of the ways I failed to simplify was buying a house. I have a full house and also storage shed. It amazed me the things that I bought or got secondhand to fill this space. Of course living in the hurricane state. Last year was a great eye opener on what is important. So I need to stock up on water and food for a few days. I never ran the generator like the year before. But the guy across the street was spending 30 dollars a day on gas to run his large tv and all the items in his house. I realized I can be happy with a hot cup of coffee and a warm meal. It was nice to go to the spare room and see so much space. I plan on adding more space and less items.

[QUOTE=cerewa]I think one of the ways I failed to simplify was buying a house.

I wonder about the house-buying thing....

I've heard the house called "the ultimate possession"

My parents never owned a house. They rented a very small house in a rural area when I was growing up. I had miles of woods and fields to roam in, and my parents didn't seem unhappy that they didn't own the house. After my dad passed away, my mom wanted to move closer to town. She gave 30 days notice and moved out (I had moved out before then). So it never really occured to me that you had to own a house.

My BF & I live in a 1 br apt over a 4 car garage. It's pretty nice, not too expensive, close to places we need to go. Sometimes it would be nice to have a house with more room for the 9 bikes. But then we'd have to spend weekends working on the house and yard instead of hiking and biking. If something breaks in the apt, we call the landlord. He's pretty good about getting things fixed right away.

A good book I like is Work Less & Play More by Steve Catlin.

I wonder about the house-buying thing....

I've heard the house called "the ultimate possession"

My parents never owned a house. They rented a very small house in a rural area when I was growing up. I had miles of woods and fields to roam in, and my parents didn't seem unhappy that they didn't own the house. After my dad passed away, my mom wanted to move closer to town. She gave 30 days notice and moved out (I had moved out before then). So it never really occured to me that you had to own a house.

My BF & I live in a 1 br apt over a 4 car garage. It's pretty nice, not too expensive, close to places we need to go. Sometimes it would be nice to have a house with more room for the 9 bikes. But then we'd have to spend weekends working on the house and yard instead of hiking and biking. If something breaks in the apt, we call the landlord. He's pretty good about getting things fixed right away.

A good book I like is Work Less & Play More by Steve Catlin.

Thanks for the tip. I ordered the book. And since I work at the library I am not purchasing it. I am sure for some the house is a good idea, but it is limiting now. ANd than with the bigger house came more crap. Than I have a few dogs and that adds more space constraints and also limitations. I would have so much more money and time with a smaller house, but I have to work with what I have now and see how simple I can live with what I got. I know if there is another hurricane season like the last one. I will be leaving the sunshine state. I hate to live weeks without power and the other troubles.

To me, frugality means being ruthless with your money when other people want it so you still have some when YOU want to spend it.


MWA HAW HAW HAW...more tips please about your "ruthlessnes" to save money... we're quick learners on this forum
:p

Let's see:

No car. I don't own a computer. I don't own a cell phone. I don't own a TV. I have never owned or worn any type of jewelry whatsoever. I have no piercings or tatoos. I have never used any type illegal drug whatsoever, and don't ever intend to. I try to limit emotions and drama to a minimum. I only drink alcohol approx. once a month. I don't own an ipod or any other type portable music player. I am single, and do not have any kids. I don't smoke cigs. I have never possessed a drivers' liscence or permit of any type. I have never driven an automobile in my life. I don't drink coffee or tea. I don't take any prescription drugs or over-the-counter medicines whatsoever.

I think that's it for now. I'm sure more will come to me.

Currently my vice is bikes. I have a basement full of bikes, frames, and parts in various states of function. I also own a bit of camping/backpacking equipment.



My friends, family, parents and everyone I meet thinks I am insane, a social reject, a druggie, a drifter, etc.

There but for sentimentality would I be.........

When I was in my 20's, I was proud that everything I owned fit into the back of a pickup truck. The collection of "stuff" grew with time, but I was able to keep the invading enemy mostly at bay (staying single helped). Then, about 20 years ago, it found a successful tactic: I couldn't part with icons from the people whose lives have touched me, especially family members who have passed away.

On a bookcase at home sits a Seth Thomas mantel clock from the 1920s. I don't even run it, but it sat atop a piano at the farmhouse of my grandparents, and it generates fond memories of spending summers with them. My mother's paintings really fight dirty; can't imagine getting rid of them now that she's gone. Little art projects my godsons made for me in school. An entire bookshelf of thousands of my slides from travels, kids' birthday parties, vacations, etc. Books my father had. I don't dwell on this stuff, but I appreciate it now in ways I couldn't when in my 20s. So the "stuff" has won on that battlefield, but I've only had to retreat the line of defense from that pickup load to a 1 bedroom apartment- so far.

I had a very simple lifestyle for a long time. Greatly influenced by what some might call poverty but to me I never felt poor- short on cash maybe but never poor- but as I look back I was right on the edge of living on the streets for quite a while. I do remember at that time wishing I was rich enough to be as poor as I chose to be. I was resourceful, intelligent and hard working enough to have taken jobs or made educational choices that would have put me in the money making track of many of my peers but I was a free lance artist and felt confident I could eventually make my living with my art. I was seeking a deeper satisfaction than that offered solely by material possession. Fortunately, I was right and my art has paid off.

However, the journey was not as easy as I'd thought in terms of keeping my life simple. Because I was used to having so little when I finally had the money to purchase more things I did so. I accumulated some worthwhile things and a lot of crap along the way. Because I had lived on my bicycle for long periods of time with only what I could bring on my bike I knew how little I could get by with and often felt ashamed by the accumulation of unnecessary junk. I had to commute a lot from Boston to New York and stopped using public transport and bought a brand new car that I loaded the miles on for the first time in my life. Those commutes translated into more earnings and I bought a condo. Locally I continued to commute by bike and bike race and tour when I had the time but I had a gnawing dissatisfaction.

Then one day I bought an abandoned house with four acres of land surrounded by 18,000 acres of state forest (for which I paid $20k cash). That shifted my focus. Suddenly I was reminded of how little I needed to be happy. This trashed little house with no windows, no electricity, no running water became my focus. My brand new car is now 11 years old and most extra cash goes into fixing that place up to make it livable. It now has a composting toilet, is hooked up to the grid but I have a combination of solar lights and low wattage lights and applicances and am working towards a combination of solar and wind power for the house.

I do think that paying rent was a form of perpetual debt worth getting out from under and my condo has doubled in value so that I am now essentially debt free if I want to unload it and put everything into the no longer abandoned house. It's difficult to live in a capitalistic economy without becoming either a pawn of the system or an aggressive, accumulator of wealth at the expense of the less fortunate. It's a balancing act of investing well and watching what you buy and where you buy it.

Ayn Rand's famous quote from the novel "The Fountainhead": "the best way to help the poor is not to be one of them." could either be a healthy self motivater or an excuse to trample your impoverished neighbors. I think the difference between a certain level of "poverty" and "a simple life style" are sometimes a state of mind but it's a hell of a lot easier to be "poor" with some money in the bank and decent health coverage than when you have neither of those things. I was fine with living day to day but having some cushion against catastrophe can mean the difference between continued independence and living off friends, family or the state. I have some friends who were poor right along with me 25 years ago and still are, despite many opportunities to improve their economic state, and I must admit how resentful I can be when I feel they think nothing of having me help subsidize their "simpler life styles". There's a big difference between being just plain cheap and selfish and being "simple" and this is a line that becomes clearer as a person ages. On the other hand I love that having more allows me to be more generous than I was ever able to be when I had barely enough for myself to get by so I'd rather err on the side of generosity and let go of any resentment when I feel taken advantage of- it ain't worth it. And, as Katrina so powerfully demonstrated, many of us are only one day of bad weather away from living with virtually nothing.

I wonder about the house-buying thing....

I've heard the house called "the ultimate possession"

My parents never owned a house. They rented a very small house in a rural area when I was growing up. I had miles of woods and fields to roam in, and my parents didn't seem unhappy that they didn't own the house. After my dad passed away, my mom wanted to move closer to town. She gave 30 days notice and moved out (I had moved out before then). So it never really occured to me that you had to own a house.

I would love to own a house. I've seen so many people buying homes recently with interest rates being low as they are today. It irks me to not have the downpayment to put down on a new home but the thought of borrowing hundreds of thousands and being in debt to my eyeballs scares the heck out of me. The least expensive home around my way are going for 275K and up and you need an income of 70K a year to qualify for the mortgage plus the 10% down payment and closing costs! It's just too much for me.

I don't know how people are buying all these homes at outragous prices can sleep at night. Home prices continue to go through the roof and I don't know when it's going to end but I'm priced out.

You know this thread has made me reconsider the whole house thing as well. I know I do not have enough stuff for a house, and I would like to keep my married and eventually family life simple as well. Hmmm.. this is the first time I have ever given consideration over an houseless ending, but maybe a condo, or smaller. One of the big things of a house is high upkeep time input. Time is one thing I have in small amount..

Another thing I didn't mention before: I can never understand why people (at least people in cities) would ever have their own washer and dryer. They take up so much space, they need their own power circuit, water pipe, etc, you need to repair them, etc. In one word... HASSLE.

I just go to the laundromat on the block. They have better machines I could ever own. I don't even own my own detergent or softener, I buy those little "1 Load" boxes at the laundromat.


BTW, there are people in this thread who seem to be very ascetic. If that's what you want, more power to you! But personally I want to enjoy life to the fullest - I just don't want my life be cluttered by stuff.

I am pretty sure I will never own a house. I could see perhaps owning a condo... but as for now I enjoy the freedom of being able to move frequently!

Well, one thing about living simple is that you live for yourself. Some people feel it less of a hassle to have their own washing machine then to have to go out and use the laundromat down the street. I thankfully have one in my own living group, but I have to look for an apartment soon, and I do not think that a washing machine will make or break a deal for me. Anyway, thanks again for starting this thread.

i bought a townhouse about 2 years ago and it was well worth it. i've done some heavy cosmetic improvements and have learned some interesting crafts like flooring, tiling, installing a toilet (ugh). and i'm planning on building some built in cabinets and bookcases. the money spent on a house is similar to putting money in a savings account or 401k, it does return a benefit, and i don't think being simple equates living paycheck to paycheck, in fact the opposite - people that are simple CAN make and save much more money tucked away, allowing them to sustain their simple lifestyle well into their future.

i had a great real estate agent right around the corner from me, and the whole process of looking at places was very enjoyable.

as noted in my previous posts i think "simplicity" is based more on philisophy, not stuff. i think a house if done right (based on price, resale/neighorhoods) is a great investment and can make a lot of money,

should they want to travel for a few years they'll more likely to have the resources to do it. (ok that's my goal in 6 years :)

buying a house isn't for everyone, but if you are motivated and have a good real estate agent it can be a good experience, and again money spent at home depot for improvements is different than money spent maintaining a car, but don't go in debt on a house either of course

Here's one for all y'all:

I got an email this morning from a friend that was CC'd to a bunch of other friends.
She wants everyone to get together at a restaurant on Thursday.

My first reactions:
NO.
Get real!
What's the event?
Why are we spending money?

...

I didn't reply.

That particular person is kind of notorious for this. They DO have a higher disposable income than I do but not by much. Their lavish spending, dining out once or twice a day at least, means they probably have less in the way of savings than I do.

I just don't get it. What the heck would be wrong if she invited people to her place and said "bring your own food"? We've all been there - it's not like she wants to keep the location a secret.

I'm not sure I'm conveying the situation well but there's a mindset difference going on here. I hope she doesn't run herself into bankruptcy before she figures out what frugal living is about.

Coincidentally, she seems more inclined to spend, plan events like this, just after receiving a student assistance cheque. (Danger Wil Robinson...)

With an entire family, we try to do as much for ourselves as possible.

Genrally, if takes longer to drive/cycle and wait for a service, I do it myself. This works well for haircuts, shampooing carpets etc. Over a year, simple haircuts for the family really adds up to wasted time and money.

Fixing things ourselves helps us to understand how things are made. Then when shopping for something, it's easier to tell if something is well made--and the land fill doesn't fill up as quickly

Example: instead of buying 3-5 cheap blinkies/year. I built my own llights + strobes. It took a month to figure it out but they've paid for themselves.

I got an email this morning from a friend that was CC'd to a bunch of other friends.
She wants everyone to get together at a restaurant on Thursday.
...
What the heck would be wrong if she invited people to her place and said "bring your own food"?


This is another style of 'simple living'. Throw money at it and the problem instantly goes away. No shopping, cooking, or clean up involved. Usually, I can say, I'm doing 'lunch only', or let's go for coffee or hang at the mall instead.

Vrkelley: have you posted a walkthrough of how you make those strobes? I'm shopping for lights but making my own seems appealing. :)

I think that the place one lives in is a big part of simple living. I want to live somewhere with enough space and no more, and I need it to be something I can afford. I have a hard time seeing myself living in a freestanding house even if I had kids, because those sorts of places use up lots of land, often involve big utility bills, and if they're within 30 minutes bike ride of a major city business district* they cost a fortune.

*which is the kind of place I think I want to live

......

Who are your philosophers of simplicity? I like Buddha because he teaches not to get attached to things. I also like Thoreau because he simplified to the core and because he knew how to live outdoors.

man is rich in proportion to things he can AFFORD to leave alone.

This may be an assumption on my part, but I am curious as to how many of the respondees are:
- not in profession careers where appearance matters (this isn't a dig, but some folks have to wear suits 5 days a week - thankfully not me);
- married
- with children (a whole host of 'crap' comes along with the lil ones);
- business owners;
- pet owners (larger than 10lbs);
- caring for parents or elderly family members;
- property owners
- business travelers (not always a bus available when you need a 4:30 am red eye flight)
- coaches for traveling sports
- dependent on medical devices for basic health maintenance

None of these are digs by any means though, just aspects that make simple living not so simple. Overall, it may be easiest to live simply when young (18-28 and single, or older (65+ and single). I applaud anyone that can live simply and raise a family: it is a cummulative triumph for them.

Vrkelley: have you posted a walkthrough of how you make those strobes? I'm shopping for lights but making my own seems appealing. :)

For home-made lights do a search on http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=42629
My strobes are the Vellman style $9ea. They're very good on pot-hole ridden roads.

[QUOTE=jamesdenver]i bought a townhouse about 2 years ago and it was well worth it. i've done some heavy cosmetic improvements and have learned some interesting crafts like flooring, tiling, installing a toilet (ugh). and i'm planning on building some built in cabinets and bookcases. the money spent on a house is similar to putting money in a savings account or 401k, it does return a benefit, and i don't think being simple equates living paycheck to paycheck, in fact the opposite - people that are simple CAN make and save much more money tucked away, allowing them to sustain their simple lifestyle well into their future.
"Feel like doing tile in the sunshine state. I have 1000 sq ft to do,"

Also if you are going to buy a hosue or already have one check with the local governemnt. My niece got a no interest loan from the local government to fix up the house. If she stays so many years the money is free and if she leaves early the total amount is reduced by the number of years
. In the same city my friend went through some budget courses with the city and they helped him with both the interest rate and also a down payment. I am not trying to say that a house is a bad thing but it is debt. The rise in property prices where I live is incredible. My house has doubled in a few years, but i see trouble ahead. When all of these loans with intrest only come due there will be more houses available and more people worse off. If I had my choice I would sell the house make a profit and rent till the whole real estate market in Florida shakes out. There are people paying inflated prices for houses way over the value of the hosue. If they tried to sell they would be in the hole. So they will be upside down in a house payment. Alot worse than if they were just upside down in a car payment. The real truth is the purchase of a house adds to the clutter in your life. Lawn mowers tools and such that you would have no or little use for if you just rented.
I am thankful that this whole discussion came up. I have learned alot and have much more to learn.

Example: instead of buying 3-5 cheap blinkies/year. I built my own llights + strobes. It took a month to figure it out but they've paid for themselves.
I don't know about you, but my blinkies have lasted 8 years now, have never broken, and are stilli on the original set of batteries.

8 years ago, I bought 3 vistalight clip-on led blinkies [one green, 2 red], and put duracell ultra batteries in all of them.

I cracked the plastic lenses, but some super glue fixed that.

Still work to this day. Well, they worked last night.

man is rich in proportion to things he can AFFORD to leave alone.

This may be an assumption on my part, but I am curious as to how many of the respondees are:
- not in profession careers where appearance matters (this isn't a dig, but some folks have to wear suits 5 days a week - thankfully not me);
- married
- with children (a whole host of 'crap' comes along with the lil ones);
- business owners;
- pet owners (larger than 10lbs);
- caring for parents or elderly family members;
- property owners
- business travelers (not always a bus available when you need a 4:30 am red eye flight)
- coaches for traveling sports
- dependent on medical devices for basic health maintenance

None of these are digs by any means though, just aspects that make simple living not so simple. Overall, it may be easiest to live simply when young (18-28 and single, or older (65+ and single). I applaud anyone that can live simply and raise a family: it is a cummulative triumph for them.


interesting list, all of them are things that require time, (except for coaching, i don't see that as any more than a few months commitment)

here's mine:

- married - partnered, own home and live together, same thing,

- with children - neither of use are interested. i fully support couples who choose not to have kids for whatever reason, and think it should be more respected - rather than assuming something is wrong with them for not wanting children. although i babysit a friends 6 year old, which is a lot of fun.

- business owners- nope, in fact we both joke about quitting our jobs with benefits and opening a small deli or video store in our neighborhood, and then having to work 15 hour days, no vacations, dealing with employee, and all the good and bad that would come with it, and i'd be in the back room over a calculater with bills in both hands --

- pet owners - nope

- caring for parents or elderly family members - not yet. another good thing to having a corp job rather than own business is that if needed i will be able to take time to travel and care should i have too. it's not something i look forward too, but it will be my first priority in life should it arise.

- property owners -- yes

- business travelers - rarely, which makes the occasional trip a nice change of pace

- coaches for traveling sports - no, but i'm taking spanish lessons.

- dependent on medical devices for basic health maintenance - yes. i'm type 1 diabetic so use insulin, test strips, test machines and syringes. it's not bad, and an easy part of my life (like getting dressed) i'm in perfect health, but this is something i always need to monitor. i have good insurance, and my co-pays are reasonable. but taking a month off to travel requires this consideration, and should i scale back in 7 years to travel more i may take a p/t job (starbucks) a few days a week for the benefits. the difference in medications and access to new techy diabetic gear between a fully insurance person like myself versus a guy going into a free clinic is night and day. i hope this changes someday in our country, but until it does health insurance benefits will be a consideration no matter what i do.