Commuting - L&M HID Lights... a brief review

Yes, a lot of would reasonably balk at shelling out $350-400 U.S. for bike lighting. If you're such a person, fair enough. Read no further.

If you want lighting that permits full daytime speeds on poor roads in the black of night, lighting that also brings parity in the Road Wars, t>3 hours run time, and a battery that can charge completely in 3.5 hours, you might want to read on.

Roads I ride regularly include all combinations possible from the following factors: lightly trafficked, heavily trafficked, 25mph speed, 35mph speed, 55+mph speed, appallingly maintained, ok maintained, unlit, well lit, risks of debris and animals, and clean and clear. Snow, rain, and fog all occur here. I wanted a light that would provide the highest possible security in these conditions, that could also used offroad in most conditions by itself.

I wouldn't normally have thought of such a high end solution, but a bunch of reviews at mtbreview.com of the Light and Motion ARC HID handlebar light piqued my curiosity. Thinking that a significant increase in safety on the road as well as the prospect of not buying another light again for some years was worth the coin, I took the hit in the wallet (ouch) and ordered one of these curiosities.

"Wow" is really the most apt expression. I have never seen bike lights this effective. The single light is amazingly bright. It appears brighter than my motorcycle headlamp. Its center core stands out against the center of an automobile's headlight beam. You can see the light's spot on the road clearly under streetlights. A partner in some informal testing thought that the most apt comparison is to a train's light, though this just might be a bit of an exaggeration. Just a bit, though; this light is bright.

I was able to travel at well over 20 mph on completely unlit, poorly maintained rural roads without being surprised by a single pothole, piece of debris, or stone. I could see these items clearly far down the road. I have never been able to do this with any other lights-- fast travel has always involved some guesswork as to the roadway ahead. In time I'll try a faster speed downhill somewhere and find the light's limits, but I've not found it yet.

Even in traffic at night, even with a pair of bright headlights behind you, you will be seen with this light. You will not only be seen, you will attract attenion compared to the background. In fact, on dark roads with little traffic you might think about turning the light away when being passed by oncoming cars-- at 20 yards or so it is uncomfortable to look directly at the light.

The reflector system in the lamp is very well designed. There is a very bright central core of light, with a bright penumbra that covers nearly all of my peripheral vision. I rode some twisty offroad trails with the light without a helmet light with perfect comfort; this is the first handlebar light alone with which I felt comfortable riding this trail. Unless the trail's especially demanding and you're going especially fast you can use this light alone.

The mount on this system is terrific, too. It swivels in both dimensions so you can scan the side of the road/trail for animals or anything that catches your eye.

HID, for those who don't yet know, stands for high intensity discharge. The lights get more out of a given power supply because of expensive xenon bulbs. The lights burn brighter, and their apparent brightness is greater because they produce much more light in the blue spectrum than standard lights, making them more like pure white lights. The blue-tinted headllights you see on more expensive newer cars are this sort.

Light and Motion says that this 13.5 watt system is the equivalent of 30-40 watt halogen systems. They're not lying. As I said, the light is brighter than my motorcycle headlamp, and it stands out against automotive headlights.

As I hinted above, the ARC system comes with a smart charger that pumps the NiMh battery to full in only 3.5 hours from a drained charge. The light shuts itself off when riding after a 15 minute warning signal when the battery's low, too, to prevent a full battery drain.

I'll be testing the light in various ways in coming rides, and report back for whoever's curious.

In the meantime, if you're the sort of hardcore bike geek who doesn't balk at $300 panniers and who is willing to break on through to the other side of automobile-level light, you already know who you are. If you're someone on the fence, let me say that $400 for this bike light is not crazy, believe it or not. If you're the sort who thinks it is simply out of the question to blow this kind of a wad on a bike light, but for some reason you've read all this, I can't say I feel like you're being unreasonable. But if lighting means enough to you, and it does to me, you wouldn't be throwing your money away on this system.

Cheers,

Forget the Cateye EL300 or my 15W Vistalite, now I know exactly what I need...$400.

Originally posted by Steele-Bike
Forget the Cateye EL300 or my 15W Vistalite, now I know exactly what I need...$400.

Steele-- are you being sarcastic? If so, that's funny.

:lol:

I don't say it's a shrewd deal to drop this kind of money on a bike light. For half the price you can get a really good set of lights.

But G*d, this thing is amazing. More testing:

I went out last night into the cold, dark night. I went a few miles on a paved path out in the boondocks. No lights, and heavily wooded. Even with the full moon it was dark under the canopy. The path is strewn with sticks, leaves, debris, raccoons, bunnies, and sometimes deer. Nearly my entire field of view was lit up. Tilting the light just right lights up the path a long way ahead-- I would say conservatively I had about 50 yards of crystal clear, wide-awake visibility on a path about 9-10 feet wide. Every twig, every leaf, everything. I didn't have to do any shadow-guessing except in the case of a few odd looking low-lying objects, and even these were fully illuminated when they got closer to the bike. I rode 18mph with no more concern than in the daytime. I could have gone faster.

The periphery of the light is very bright, as well. The woods, and brush were all around were clear; with guesstimation you can make everything out. There are no dark patches with this light. Nearly your entire field of vision is usefully illuminated.

The bluish tint of the light makes the shadows less harsh and surreal looking than with halogen bulbs. The whole scene makes more intuitive sense right away than with a standard bulb.

On the roadways, again, you've got a long stretch of road illuminated in front of you. Signs are illuminated far, far ahead, maybe a quarter-mile or more(?) out in the sticks, on both sides of the road.

With my older 12W halogen lights I would often have drivers coming in the opposite direction turn on their high beams some distance away. They saw my light, but they weren't exactly sure whether there was a vehicle ahead, or a guy with a flashlight, or what. That was always annoying.

I've been out only a couple of times, but so far this hasn't happend with the new lights. Every car coming the other way knows there's a vehicle ahead; they're puzzled as to just what it is, though. They don't aim the high beams, but they look intently as they pass, even through their door windows. I have thought some might shine the high beams because the light is too bright, and up higher on the handlebars than a car's light- so far, not yet. With my panniers, they might think I'm a cop or something.

The mount on this light swivels left and right easily. If there is motion off to the side into the woods, a flick of the wrist trains the light on whatever it is. That's nice, providing a lot of the benefit of a helmet light without a helmet mount. (As I said above, though, on a lot of wooded trails the side lighting is good enough to permit riding without a helmet light, even without moving the light on the handlebar mount.)

The light has two power settings, but they're nearly identical, so I just go ahead and use the higher setting. With one bulb, that's all they can do with Xenon these days.

The cord isn't curled, so you have to wrap it around the battery or something. I wrap mine around the top tube. I prefer this, actually, to a curled cable, but you might not.

I'll try doing some more quantitative testing when I get a chance. Anyone interested in looking at these things might go to www.bikelights.com My comments above are about the ARC light.

And no, as if I had to make this clear, I don't have any association with this company. I think they have made the best bike light than can be mass-produced with present technology.

Cheers.

Curse you, Merriwether! I thought I had maxed out when I paid $125 for a two light Vistalite system about 1.5 years ago. Since they are no longer in business I have been wondering what to do when I start needing new batteries. Now, God help me, you've got me thinking about spending $400!

I ride to work in the dark EVERY morning. Daylight savings time doesn't do anything for me. I long ago sold my second car so I can usually justify spending money that will make my commute safer. This light sounds great. Guess I'd better start checking pay phones and under sofa cushions for loose change.

Thanks a LOT. :D
Rainman

Just to add my two cents. Live in Monterey where L&M is based, and I have some friends who work there. These guys do things like night-time mountain bike rides. They build their lights to work in settings like that. They want a light that keeps them from running into trees at 20 mph, and one that will hold together if they accidentally do hit something. They make serious products for serious cyclists. I have their commuter light, a relative steal at $120, and I'm very happy with it, although I wouldn't mind a longer-lasting battery. If you want a bright, dependable bike light (and if you use your bike as a vehicle at night, you should), take a look at the L&M offerings.

andy

Originally posted by Merriwether

Steele-- are you being sarcastic? If so, that's funny.

I had been using 2/3 watt lights for years, and then a couple of years ago I bought my 15W. I was amazed at the brightness and never thought anything could possibly be brighter. I am glad to hear that there are lights out there that are even better. Even though it will be a while before I can afford a $400 light, I will keep wishing.

Just to put spending $400 on a bike light in perspective consider my situation. Although I have a nice Vistalite setup with 10W and 15W lights, I got tired of charging the battery every day. For a few months I had been riding with a little 3 LED headlight, not the nice bright Cateye 3-LED bike light; this is a light you wear on your head primarily for close work. It will sort of light the area immediately in front of your wheel and seemed brighter to me than the 2.5W Cateye Micro Halogen. Since most of my early morning commute is reasonably well lighted by street lights, and I pretty much know where all the bumps are now, I figured the little light was adequate.

The morning after Labor Day I was on my usual early morning commute in the dark I hit a fresh diesel spill that I didn't see in time and went down hard right on the point of my left hip. I wound up with such a huge hematoma it required surgery to clean and drain, but not before I passed out once from the loss of 1 to 2 pints of blood into it. Even just my share of all the hospital, doctor, xray, lab, anaesthesia, etc., after insurance cost more than $400, not to mention that I couldn't ride my bike for over 3 weeks! Considering that it wouldn't have taken much more pressure to actually have broken the hip bone, requiring several months of rehab, I consider myself very lucky.
FWIW,
Raymond

Good point Ray - saving nickels and dimes sometimes costs big dollars! Have you ordered the $400 light yet??
I think I'll wait a bit. It sounds great but... how will battery life hold out?, how long will bulbs last?, etc. If I'm spending $400 on a lighting system, I want it to last forever!!

Compared even to good halogen lights, I suspect the new, extravagantly expensive light reduces my chance of accident caused by either of two things: hard-to-see road hazards and automobiles. That the light would do this was an important fact in my deciding to spend so much. I certainly feel more secure. When I thought about riding twelve miles to Wal-Mart in falling snow in X-mastime traffic I thought that my headlamp was something I simply didn't want to worry about at all. With my old 12W light, I felt reasonably safe, with occasional questions. Now, I don't worry at all.

How much the light reduces my chances of accident I'm not sure, and whether it was worth buying for that amount of contribution to safety is something else, too. (Then there are complications, like the fact that you can always ride a bit slower with other lights, too, at no cost.) Like Raymond, though, when I thought about the cost of a crash I felt reasonable in thinking that strong lighting is a good place to avoid scrimping.

So far I'm very satisfied. I see the pitch black roads and their attendant hazards much more clearly, and so far I get more respect from drivers. I can ride at daytime speeds on pitch black roads. I just got the light, though, so I'll learn more as I use it.

Of course, "reduction in risk" has to be understood prior to my change in riding habits. Now I'll ride more at night, bringing my overall risk closer to what it was. So maybe it's better to say that I've increased my freedom for a given level of risk.

Apart from road safety, I liked the prospect of doing more off-road riding without having to go home and get a helmet light. I liked the turbo charger. I just like powering the light up, too, and seeing the pleasing blue light flood everything in sight. It's cool.

You can get the light I've been discussing for around $350 if you look, but whether $350 or $400 you're talking about a huge wad to blow on a bike light. There's no denying it.

You can also get good lights, lights that are more than minimally adequate, for much less. You might spend less now and see what's available in a couple of years if you feel like upgrading, too. That's not an unreasonable thing to do. I would say, too, that you might find the ARC overkill in well-lit areas. If you can already see the road then the visibility increase from the light is probably not worth the money.

Anyway, if someone else gets this light I'd be very interested to hear the response to it.

Cheers.

Originally posted by pinerider
Good point Ray - saving nickels and dimes sometimes costs big dollars! Have you ordered the $400 light yet??
I think I'll wait a bit. It sounds great but... how will battery life hold out?, how long will bulbs last?, etc. If I'm spending $400 on a lighting system, I want it to last forever!!

L&M make claims about the life of the bulb and battery here:

www.bikelights.com

Cheers.

Future developments:

http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCellToday/IndustryInformation/IndustryInformationExternal/NewsDisplayArticle/0,1471,1930,00.html


If the above link doesn't work try just going to www.fuelcelltoday.com and looking for the story about fuel cells and laptops.

Whether hydrogen fuel cells are going to revolutionize driving, what with the cost of acquiring the hydrogen fuel, they may well provide a breatkthrough in battery technology. Ten hours of bike lighting!

Pinerider,
I haven't yet, but I'm sure I will. The only thing stopping me right now is that I am trying to convince my wife that I need a little motorscooter. Once I settled into bicycle commuting we sold our second car. I don't want another car, but every now and then there are little errands that the bike just doesn't work well for either because I don't want to get sweaty, like for a dr. appt., or the bike is just not practical due to time, distance or other constraints. I figure a little scooter like a Honda Elite 80 would be perfect and fun for little outings together either both on the scooter or her on the scooter and me on the bike. Anyway, I am keeping a little stash set aside so the day she slips up and agrees I can get a deposit down before she can change her mind! Meanwhile I will use the Vistalite until
1. It becomes obvious the scooter just ain't gonna happen or
2. I get the scooter and scrape together another stash.
Regards,
Raymond

Originally posted by RainmanP

The morning after Labor Day I was on my usual early morning commute in the dark I hit a fresh diesel spill that I didn't see in time and went down hard right on the point of my left hip. FWIW,
Raymond

Raymond:

I was out last night for a bit and I thought about you and your crash. Ouch. I'm glad you've recovered so well.

I didn't come across any wet spills but I did find I could detect regular oil stains on the road ahead with about 4 seconds of lead time at 16mph. That's on completely dark roads in rural areas, roads with no lights, no marking, and no shoulders. Just pavement. Something of a relief given your story. I'm hoping it will make ice patches clear, too. We'll have to wait and see.

Another note: I found that cars passing me from the opposite direction, those coming head on, slowed down to make their pass. They couldn't figure out what I was until they were right on top of me. As I said, I was on very dark, narrow rural roads. Drivers were concerned, I think, that I was some kind of tractor taking up a large part of the road width.

Yeah, I've been going on and on about the light. Bike lighting, though, is like crack cocaine. You get a hit of the good stuff and you can't go back. You're also willing to do whatever it takes to keep your high. Don't try an HID light, Rainmain, unless you have the willpower to resist robbing the CircleK to get your instant fix.

Cheers

I will second everything that Merriwether says. I have had my light for about 3 months now and it is the best money I have spent. I used to run a 8/12 Niterider system and some other systems I do not remember names of. This is by far the best and brightest of the bunch. It has a great pattern that no other bike light I have seen has. I do two night rides a month for most of the year and I am not allowed to have my light on during those rides. It blinds the people next to me if they are slightly ahead.

The neat thing is they send a crash repair kit with the light. The light mounts on these plastic swivel parts that are made to break away during and accident. So if you do crash, your expensive light will be okay.

Another great feature is how easy it is to adjust while riding. The left/right movement is as easy as turning a doorknob. I have not found it to move during off road riding even though it does seem easy to adjust it does not move unless you want it too. The up/down adjustment is a screw with a 5 spoke thing on the end to make it simple to loosen (no allen heads here). Just loosen it up a bit and adjust the light then tighten.

I have used my light about 30-40 times this year and it is great.

I feel I have rambled on about this light, but it is such a great product that any commuter that rides in dark or high traffic areas should have.

I bought mine on ebay for just over $300. Took a few months of searching though.

Styk33,

I noticed that your name showed up in the feedback for "federalpublicsafety" for just such a unit, which sold yesterday. What condition was it in? Did it come with a receipt and a warranty card? I assume you need the former to make a claim, right? Is this guy a legitimate dealer? My concern with spending this much cash on a light is that I find myself SOL when it comes to making a warranty claim.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

Originally posted by Styk33
I bought mine on ebay for just over $300. Took a few months of searching though.

You dog. I saw that light on Ebay-- sold by someone called federal safety company or something?

The price seemed great, $300 as you say, but I was too hesitant. I feared an ebay scam: an expensive light, the guy didn't have any pictures or information about the light other than on L&M's web page. He even had an 800 number. I called it and it was disconnected.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, though. If you got that light, good buy. You saved a bundle-- if I had had some confirmation about the light I might have bid you up.

As goes without saying, I agree about the light. The best I've ever seen.

One note-- you said you haven't noticed the light moving left or right when you rode. If the mount comes loose, there's a phillips screw on the underside of the section of the mount permanently attached to the lamp. You can just tighten that screw. If you remove the lamp from the handlebar mount, and turn the lamp upside down you'll see the screw.

Cheers.

Where can I order spare xenon bulbs?

I've found plenty of companies selling the entire light kits. And, halogen spare bulbs are easy to find. But with the spare xenon bulbs seem harder to locate. To be clear, I want the one-piece bulb, reflector, and cover glass with the double pin in the back. Know where I can order one?

Thanks!

Speaking of a good lighting system, I have been using the NightSun Tri-lites. They brighten every thing from the sides of the roads to about 100 yards in front. And they turn the darkest single track into bright as day, lighting up every obstacle.
They have 3 independent lights that you can angle in different directions. They are on pricy side at 390USD.
The nice thing on the road, cars see me coming from around turns and and turn off their brights.

Slainte:beer:

Does anyone know how the L&M light compares to the Cateye Stadium 3 HID? Cateye claims that it's equivalant to an 80 watt halogen light. Has anyone seen both?

Sorry for the slow response guys. Yes, I bought it from Federal Public Safety. I got an invoice and a warrantee card with my unit. It was brand new in the box. We had an issue with shipping, but it was just a minor problem. FPS was having it dropped shipped to me (since L&M is in my state) and L&M I guess stopped drop shipping things. So it took an extra week to ship it to the other side of the country and then back again.

FPS has been in business for a few years (10+) and others on ebay have had good experiences with them. The bidding on the light was at $260 5 minutes before the auction ended, someone bidded against me to bring it up over $300.

Merriwether, thanks for the tip on tighten up the light. If it becomes loose I will do that. It is great that it is adjust on the fly. I can turn it way from cars or oncoming persons if need be.

Oooo, HID... mmmm! Is it submersible? I wonder how the output, waterproofing and controls stack up to a NiteRider Blowtorch. Chances are slim that anyone here has spent $800 to get one of each, but if anyone's had a direct light-to-light comparison on a night ride with a friend, I'd really like to hear your impressions!

(not that I have any money to spend on this type of thing... thank goodness my 5-year-old NiteRider Nitehawk simply won't quit working)

Thanks for the firsthand report, Merriweather! :)

As soon as it starts raining I will test it in the water. Right now it is 70F and not to many clouds in the sky.

Sometimes Sacramento is such a bore :D

Some more observations of this light:

Observation 1: the light is plainly visible-- distractingly visible-- 3/4 away on totally dark road from an observation point under bright streetlights inside town.

My observing partner said, "that light is brighter than car headlights I compared it to, that were closer to me. There's no way that light would get lost in a sea of lights on a busy street at night. It was almost annoyingly bright at 3/4 a mile away."

'And as you approached, I thought you were right there when you were far away"

We switched positions, and I agreed with her assessment.

The light is only rated at 13W, and even with the HID boost the light is not putting out the lumens of a car headlight. Nevertheless, the small size of the lamp, the color, and the position up on the bar make the lamp's apparent brightness significantly greater than an auto's headlights. Truth.

Observation 2: When approaching a bike with the light, the light is bright enough that I, the cyclist, cannot be directly observed behind it until I am very close. Even under a streetlight this is the case.

The result is that on narrow roads oncoming automobiles slow to assure themselves that the oncoming vehicle isn't something sticking into their lane, like a piece of farm equipment.

For example, an unauthorized vehicle found its way onto the testing grounds, and it slowed noticeably as it was oncoming. I've observed this behavior with other cars out on dark roads. Drivers are not sure what they're heading toward, and so slow down a bit. I've had cars at cross streets wait several seconds to let me pass the intersection before they pulled out behind me. They didn't know I was on a bike until I was past them. Respect!

Observation 3: the HID light lit ground up noticeably even with the ground bathed in halogen car headlights immediately behind the cyclist.

Again, this is function of the focus and color of the beam. The car headlights obviously put out more light.

The headlamp, again, will be visible on the road at least as far away as car headlights. Miles in open country.

Then, as I've mentioned before, it's possible to ride at 20+mph on the road at night with this light, and still _see_ the road clearly. That's a tremendous benefit.

By the way, for the curious, a small LED red blinky was not visible after about about 1/2 a mile from the rear. A Trek bright blinky was visible, but not prominent, to 3/4 of a mile, and probably would have remained so out to a mile or so if you really looked for it. Reflective material disappeared from view after about 1/3 to 1/2 a mile or so.

The weather was cold and clear.

Originally posted by Merriwether
Some more observations of this light:

Observation 1...

My observing partner said, "that light is brighter than car headlights I compared it to, that were closer to me. There's no way that light would get lost in a sea of lights on a busy street at night. It was almost annoyingly bright at 3/4 a mile away."

'And as you approached, I thought you were right there when you were far away"




Having someone look at our own bike lights is a very important thing that too many people forget, I'm afraid.

Compared to car lights and even motorcycle lights, I would say:

- Many bike lights (including this one) are less precisely aimed (or focussed?) than car lights. Even U.S.-approved car lights are more poorly aimed than European lights. The good point is that it allows car lights to be brighter without blinding people who come the other way. The bad point is that car lights are less effective, say, to see that deer coming out from the forest on your left. And an incidental effect is that car lights seem less bright than bike lights 1 or 2 km away.

- The most effective way one uses to assess the distance and speed of uncoming vehicle is to look at spacing between both headlights. When one sees a car, one sees two headlights getting further and further apart... which means that the car is approaching. Motorcycle headlights and bike headlights don't have that advantage, which means people think they are far away. Problem is more severe with bike headlights which tend to be small.
Single spot, small diametre and less bright (for most 5-15 W) equal far away.

Regards,

Michel,

You're right about the difference between American car headlights and European. The American spill light upwards more than the European, in part because American road design calls for many more overhead signs to be illuminated by headlights than in Europe, where self-illuminating signs are standard.

Anyway, the HID bike light is very well focussed for its purpose. It's supposed to be both a road light _and_ an offroad light, bear in mind. It fills that role very well, providing a very bright central beam and good peripheral lighting. Because of its position on the handlebar, and small diameter its apparent brightness is greater.

The lamp does lack an extensive housing, however, to keep light horizontal or lower, it's true. But, it is a bike light, after all.

In terms of what can be _seen_, it's a tremendous light. Objects on the roadside can be clearly seen, and the light penetrates the darkness far up the road.

The light may be overkill in areas with decent street lighting, however, in part because of the brightness to oncoming traffic.

Originally posted by mgagnonlv
Having someone look at our own bike lights is a very important thing that too many people forget, I'm afraid.


I pulled up at the stoplight at 29th about a week ago and a gent in an old Toyota pulled up alongside and said my taillight was marvelous. "I spotted you from 8 blocks back! I ride too, so I thought I'd let you know it's making you show up great!"

That was in the daytime, using my Niterider rear flasher. :) Hopefully L&M cooks up something along those lines, because they don't affect runtime much and they are a wonderful asset, day or night.

At any rate, now I am lusting for an HID headlamp too! Thanks for the update with your friend's report about how the system looks to others. :)

Merriwether et al., how do the L & M lights compare to the Turbocat lights (e.g., the S47)? Are they sturdier? Brighter? Whiter? Lighter?

Originally posted by philosoraptor
Merriwether et al., how do the L & M lights compare to the Turbocat lights (e.g., the S47)? Are they sturdier? Brighter? Whiter? Lighter?

Philo,

These are good questions.

The s47 is a pair of halogen lights that when used together has a 47 watt(!!) high rating. I've never seen it, but I'd like to. That's gotta be bright.

In theory this is brigher than than ARC HID light, which at 13W puts out lumens comparable to a halogen light somewhere over 35w. However, I've noticed the ARC light appears to make the road more visible than halogen car headlamps within its light cone. The ARC light seems a lot brighter than its lumen-equivalent halogen lights would be expected to be.

The apparent illumination of the HID light may be greater than its theoretical equivalent in halogen lights because of the color. The blueish-white penetrates the darkness very far ahead. It also makes objects more intuitively recognizable than halogen systems. These facts about blue-white light seem to me underinvestigated. So I'm not sure that the Cat would outperform the HID light in real riding.

That said, the cat has a higher lumen output than the ARC light, so until more hard data is acquired we'll have to predict that the 'cat will outperform the ARC light. It will certainly seem brighter to oncoming traffic.

As you can tell from my earlier postings, though, I think the ARC light is amazing. It floods the road with light. You can see everything. I haven't wished for more light.

The Turbocat doesn't have a long run time at 47w though, probably less than an hour. The ARC light will run 3 hours at high, 3.5 hours at low. (These light levels are nearly the same. I can't tell them apart without switching between them.) That's a huge difference.

The ARC light has a smart charger, too, and fully charges a spent battery in 3.5 hours. The 'cat has neither feature. It has a standard trickle charger. (You can always use a lamp timer to prevent overcharging. But planning my charging 8-10 hours in advance didn't always work out for me.)

I would like to see a 47w bike light in person sometime!

I just checked the TurboCat website for prices, and noticed the S47 sold for USD300-340, depending on battery type. Merriwether said in the beginning of this thread that the L&M HID costs somewhere around USD350-400. Are these street prices or suggested retail prices?

I was considering mail ordering a lower end TurboCat for my commuter, but gave up the idea, mainly due to all the taxes, postages etc. I figured I could buy a couple of decent halogen systems here at that price. This was two years ago, and now it seems the first one is going wherever it is dead bike lights go. The next one better be good for longer than that.

--J

Juha,

I recently sent back a TurboCat S10 that I purchased after owning for under a week. Simply wasn't bright enough for my needs. The unit seemed to be made very nicely however. For mild (slow) commuting I think the S10 would serve well. But I am looking for a light I can train with a close to daytime speeds.

I looked to purchase a Light and Motion ARC, but could not find anyone with one in stock (the handlebar mount version). So I purchased a NiteRider HID. I'm now on my second NiteRider, since the first unit was defective (shorting out/not turning on consistently/etc). I'll be trying out my second unit for the first time tonight.

FWIW, I purchased my NiteRider light thru Excel Sports and their customer support is top notch in my experience.

I've had the light for about a month now. I've used it many times, several times a week, in fact. I've taken long night rides and short utility rides with it.

The longer I use the light the more I like it. I love this light. I have no regrets at all about buying it, and in fact would not hesitate to get another one if this one got smashed or stolen. The light is a significant step up from even bright halogen lights, and I don't want to go back now.

Two more items:

I've descended at about 30mph without outdistancing the light. I could ride at that speed in safety, seeing everything coming up on the road.

There's no question that the light commands big time respect. I've mentioned that I ride a lot on little traveled, dark country roads. Throughout the time I've used the light, cars coming in the opposite direction have slowed noticeably to pass.

Cars at intersections will stop and wait for me to pass through when I have the right of way. They will wait for even ten seconds for me to arrive at the intersection. They don't know I'm just a guy on a bike. I'm not sure what they think, but they see me and they don't want to pull out in front of me. That's all they have to think, as far as I'm concerned.

This doesn't have to do with HID lights in particular, but I love the turbo charger, too. I can charge from empty in 3.5 hours, and from more than empty more quickly than that. I can decide at 6 that I'm going to ride, and charge the battery by 8.

The battery goes 3 hours in full brightness mode, which provides more than enough time of hugely bright light for even long rides.

I got the ARC two weeks ago and purposely stayed late at work so that I could ride home in the dark. New London is a small town with few stop lights and many twisty, hilly, rural roads. With the NitePro/Vistalite helmet/handlebar combo that I had been using, I frequently "outran" my lights. That hasn't yet happened with the ARC, even at speeds of 48 KPH.

I loved my NitePro/Vistalite combo, it has served me well for years, and I don't wish to offend the hardworking folks at either company. But WOW. The ARC light makes those other lights look washed out and, well, pathetic.

Should the ice storm that's predicted for this weekend materialize, I'll have the chance to see how the ARC fares in single digit (Farhenheit) weather.

Anyway, the main reason I'm posting is to add my voice to the chorus. When first reading Merriwether's posting, I thought it inconceivable that I (or indeed, anyone) would willingly spend $350+ on a bike light. Now, with the wisdom that comes with slightly greater age, and slightly more experience, I know better.

Back when this thread started I looked around at the HID lights. I still haven't taken the plunge, but I'm sure I will eventually. Has anyone tried the Cateye Stadium 3? It is HID and claims about the same brightness and battery life. Don't know if it comes with the fast charger. I'm hoping that these lights come down a little. I'm still having a little trouble whipping out the credit card for a 350-dollar light!

Originally posted by RainmanP
Back when this thread started I looked around at the HID lights. I still haven't taken the plunge, but I'm sure I will eventually. Has anyone tried the Cateye Stadium 3? It is HID and claims about the same brightness and battery life. Don't know if it comes with the fast charger. I'm hoping that these lights come down a little. I'm still having a little trouble whipping out the credit card for a 350-dollar light!

I purchased the Stadium 3 light last October, so have now used it for about 5 months. All-in-all I'm very impressed with it, it's very well engineered (The light housing is made out of aluminium and just has a feeling of quality about it - Much better than the Visatlite Nightstick I had before the Stadium 3. )

My commute (about 9 miles one way) has some unlit sections of road and I can easily cycle at about 25-30 mph in the dark without any problem, the road ahead is well lit and any cars approaching dip their beam so they can also see me from quite a distance away. The blueish light easily picks out potholes, bits of tree, roadkill etc. in plenty of time so that I can plan on avoiding it. Not only that but I am able see how far the light reaches as signs are very well lit up with a blueish glow. Easily reaching 200 metres. So you should be able to see the light from much further away, although I haven't done any experiments to prove this.
The light it very bright, and it really hurts if you look directly at the beam from a close distance, I learnt not to do that pretty quickly ;) (I'm one of those sad people who just have to look directly at a light in order to see how bright it is.)


Filtering in traffic is also a breeze as cars can spot me in their rear view mirror and quite a few will also pull over slightly to make a bit more room for me to pass (quite surprising that!)

The beam pattern, whilst less focused than a car is excellent, as well as lighting up in front, it has quite a wide angle to the spread of the beam, therefore easily picking out the side pavement, gutters, potholes, etc. even when the main beam isn't focused on it. Also the spot of the light on the road doesn't get 'lost' by cars approaching from behind.

The light is easily ajustable on the handlebars. It's very easy to move it left/right without it being 'loose'. You can also easily adjust it on the vertical plane whilst riding (Handy for those really dark bits of road) Even with this movement there is no creep downwards when you go over bumpy terrain. It only moves about when I want it to.

I paid £300 for it (About 470 $US :eek: ) I was very wary of spending that amount of money just for a light, especially as I had forked out about £120 for the vistalight 3 three weeks previously (I'm relatively new to commuting by bike). I just wasn't happy with the vistalight, from having to adjust it on my handlebars all the time, and the charger not being 'smart', also the battery holder wouldn't fit on my bike, so I had to carry the batteries on my backpack!
So I went a got the Stadium.

It comes in a nice case, which is ideal for summer storage. The charger is smart, so that if you do forget you're charging the battery, it doesn't matter. It will charge a flat battery in about 3 hours.
There is also a safety mechanism that will stop the battery from completly discharging (possibly ruining the battery) whilst in use.

One thing with HID lights is that they don't dim when the battery it low, it will just cut out. However, there is a red warning light on the ballast (The bit between the battery and the light unit (which you place on your frame)) which goes on when you can about 20 minutes charge left.

The battery should last about 3 hours between charges, although I top-up-charge mine when I get to work. Charging like this only takes about 30-40 minutes. (The is a red led inside the battery holder that tells you that it's fully charged)

What else? You do get other cyclists looking at it whilst they are riding down the other side of the road! And some car drivers also seem to give it odd looks. It's out of the ordinary at the moment, which to me is a good feature as at least people then register your presence on the road.

Would I buy it again? Yes, I think it's worth the money, I'm a lot happier riding when I can see where I'm going.

Any questions about it, feel free to ask.

Do you guys leave these expensive lighting systems on the bike when you lock them up outside?
How practical are they for commuting where you have to leave a bike unattended all day ?
No-one seems to touch my dynamo lamp unit , and even the water bottle battery power source hasnt been stolen yet, but I would remove this in a high crime area.

Maraxis,
Thanks for the review. I'll tell ya. You guys are making it hard to keep my credit card in my wallet. My morning commute is in the dark every workday year round. It is mostly suburban/urban streets where there is usually street lighting, but some stretches are dark and even the lit sections are often shadowed by large trees that line the street. I am currently using a nice dynamo setup on my commuter, a Dynosys LightSPIN and Hella Micro FF with 4W bulb. It is actually adequate, but I do prefer more light. I use a Vistalite Nightstick setup when I ride my other bikes. The HID lights sound great. I like the idea of having a LOT of light.
Regards,
Raymond

Originally posted by MichaelW
Do you guys leave these expensive lighting systems on the bike when you lock them up outside?
How practical are they for commuting where you have to leave a bike unattended all day ?
No-one seems to touch my dynamo lamp unit , and even the water bottle battery power source hasnt been stolen yet, but I would remove this in a high crime area.

I'm lucky enough to have my own office, with a door that locks, where I can leave my bike every day. When I'm at the grocery store or somewhere else where I have to leave the bike outside for a while, I remove both the light (it's designed to slide out of its handlebar housing with a little effort) and the water-bottle battery. I don't find them very bothersome to carry around, especially when I think about how awful I'd feel if they were stolen.

Enthusiasm is contagious, but rather than repeat a whole chunk of what I've already said, I'll just add few things, or restate a few things succinctly I might have rambled on about above:

(1) I've seen reflections from road signs over 1/4 mile away. This is out in the dark, with my ARC light the only light around. I've not tested to find the limits, this is just what I've happened to observe so far.

(2) The light itself is _easily_ visible from more than a mile away on a dark, flat road.

(3) The light is so bright that oncoming traffic will not know you're on a bike until they're right there. This will be true at least sometimes even if you're riding under streetlights.

(4) I've regretted buying saddles, a crappy bike pump, some shorts that don't fit, and a couple of other things. None of them were anywhere near $350. I find myself thinking, even still, that this light is one of the best bike purchases I've ever made.

(5) The light has no separate ballast. It has a small, water-cage battery, and the light housing itself is small and light. The whole thing detaches very quickly. I'm the only guy with good bike stuff where I live, and there's not much crime here anyway. I can leave the thing on the bike at the store. People here don't have any idea how much something like it costs. It's just a cheap bike light to them, albeit one that's pretty bright.

(6) In very cold weather (10F or colder), the light doesn't always come on right away. I don't know why, exactly. The button feels much stiffer at those temperatures. Perhaps it's just the switch. But once or twice in cold weather I've had to keep my hands on the light housing for 30 seconds or so to get the thing to turn on. This has happened somewhere around one time in twenty, I would guess. I called L&M, they said there shouldn't be any problem in cold weather. This must be the short answer, though.

(7) The cops around here paid a lot of attention to the light when they first saw it. They'd slow when they were oncoming, look at me as I passed, etc. None of them have ever stopped, said anything, or otherwise indicated that there was some problem with the light's brightness. No legal issues here.

(8) The light has very high brightness, long run times, and charges as quickly as it depletes in use. The whole thing is small and well-designed.

Until there is some significant breakthrough in battery technology-- hydrogen cells or something-- this is very, very close to the best bike light that can be made.

Originally posted by MichaelW
Do you guys leave these expensive lighting systems on the bike when you lock them up outside?

Never.

And my "lighting system" is a cheapo Sigma Mirage, not a Stadium 3 or a Lupine. It might be true that not many people understand how much these flashlights cost and so are not inclined to steal them. But I've seen enough bikes smashed to smithereens for no obvious reasons to leave the light attached.

Another reason might be the fact that I mostly need light in winter. Cold weather kills the battery very quickly.

--jh

for 400 bucks i would expect nothing less than a marathon runner sprinting 20 meters ahead of me with an olympic torch.

i'm sure this light is the greatest thing since sliced tofu but i shall soldier on with my lowly halogen until they decide to price it reasonably. my $150 performance setup helps me avoid all the little road nasties you describe, and i'm not convinced a brighter light would reveal a patch of diesel.

I have had my light for a few months now and have been using it 4 out of the 5 days I ride (saturday mornings I do not use it). It is great and running strong. I use it for an hour or so each day and just charge it every other day so I know I have enough juice in case I take a detour on my commute home.

I have ridden with a couple other commuters that have lights (do not recall which models), and it is very difficult to see there light on the rode when we ride next to each other.

An employee at a local shop sells NiteRider systems, but after seeing my light he has one on his bike now :)

I imagine the CS3 is near the quality and power as my L&M unit. Like Merriwether I would have no problems spending another $300-400 if my light was stolen or I had to replace it. Just think, the light on my bike cost half as much as the whole bike :)

Originally posted by Bandit

i'm sure this light is the greatest thing since sliced tofu but i shall soldier on with my lowly halogen until they decide to price it reasonably. my $150 performance setup helps me avoid all the little road nasties you describe, and i'm not convinced a brighter light would reveal a patch of diesel.

$150 lights are good, and not spending more is certainly a reasonable plan.

The Arc light is much better than any $150 halogen light though. It does make the road much more visible, including patches of oil, black ice, pebbles, bits of glass, what have you.

I opted not to spend the extra money on the ARC system but did buy a Solo logic system from L&M. I will say that it is very well built and works great!

As stated in another thread I just got fitted for my new Cannondale R800 and while I was waiting for the stock seat to be changed to the Serfas gel seat I noticed that my LBS had the helmet and handlebar ARC systems in stock.

Having started the commute home at night (I get off of work at 9pm and it's pitch black here in Fresno on parts of Bullard Ave where I ride home- no street lights what so ever) and have been using the Cateye EL-300 which did nothing for me as a night light. Without hesitation I told my sales guy to add the ARC to the bike. I wasn't even thinking about a new light but having put the $1400 down on the new road bike (using the excuse that I will be riding to and from work instead of using my gas guzzling Buick) I figured that the extra $300 for the light was worth it. The last thing I want at night is to wreck because a car or pot hole, etc got in my way.

Haven't had a chance to use the bike yet (picking up tomorrow because of a handle bar and stem change) but can't wait to start the commute to and from work witout any worries.

I just hope I can train my back to stay in the "road" position and not have to revert back to the Hybrid Trek that I have been using.

-Wynn

I have owned an L+M ARC for about a year now. I would agree that it is an amazing light and often too bright. It has stood the test of time well, although it has probably only been run for about 100 hours so far.

While the cost is high I would expect the design to get very good battery and bulb life, compared to the typical light system, so the amortized cost per hour of use may actually be comparable to the $150 15+5Watt VistaLite system that it replaced.